The demise of formal night

[pipedreams62]

European tourists in the streets of New York are also better dressed (tourist-casual) than American tourists. :)

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

Well, if I paid good money for my cruise, why can't I have the choice to dress as scruffily as I want to? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

That rationale can be extended to include not bathing - if you can look as scruffy as you want to, why not smell as foul as you wish? The other passengers (who paid for a certain ambience) have no rights when they might come up against your rights.

[fireman845]

 

too funny!

[sfocruiser]

I have been saying this for months. If you travel on HAL in Europe you will find the Europeans much better dressed overall than Americans.

 

What is your point? If you go to Paris or Lyon I'm sure you will find the average person better dressed than the US. But that style veneer in no way guarantees better manners or class. I would much rather have a casually dressed interesting table mate, than a style magnet who is not. Try an off season Costa Cruise out of Savona and you will be pleading for the good 'ol US (or Canadian) hospitality.

[babyher]

That rationale can be extended to include not bathing - if you can look as scruffy as you want to, why not smell as foul as you wish? The other passengers (who paid for a certain ambience) have no rights when they might come up against your rights.

 

 

But who is saying scruffy ?

 

I'm not talking about what you might see on a cruise ship, because yes , I know there are some real slobs out there.

 

But in the endless threads there have been on dress codes, I can't remember anyone saying they want to be scruffy.

 

Many would prefer a nice polo or button down shirt, and a pair of Dockers instead of a suit or tux, or a pair of capri pants or slacks and a nice top than a dress or gown. That certainly isn't scruffy or dirty. Rita in her last post mentions although not "up to code" formal, she is nicely dressed and clean in her appearance.

 

But why does "not formal" automatically relate to cut off shorts, flip flops and wife beater t- shirts ?

[Copper10-8]

 

You need one with sandals and BLACK socks - Now THAT's European!;)

[babyher]

You need one with sandals and BLACK socks - Now THAT's European!;)

 

 

*LOL*

 

The white socks go better with short pants and a metal detector :)

[pipedreams62]

You need one with sandals and BLACK socks - Now THAT's European!;)

 

 

 

[MadManOfBethesda]

Sorry if you were insulted. But if you think that “it's not the world that is becoming less formal; it is cruising” you need to get out more. You said: “If you go somewhere where the dress is semi-formal, then the men - - and I mean ALL MEN - - will be dressed in coat and tie”. I was at a dinner in Wyoming earlier this year and business dress with requested and in my world that means suit and tie. But there were people there in western wear. Should we have told the local politicians and business leaders that were not wearing a suit and tie that they couldn't attend the dinner because of their dress? Of course not. My point is that different regions of our great country and world people decide what is appreciate dress. Mainly what they are comfortable in. If you are comfortable in being in a suit all the time that’s great. But I can guarantee you that you are in the minority and country is becoming more and more casual and not just cruising.

 

Well, let's see. In your first sentence, you half-heartedly apologize for insulting me (and the other 2.5 million inhabitants of the Washington, DC area) in your previous post. But then in your second sentence, you insult me again by telling me I need to get out more. You just can't help yourself can you?

 

But in answer to your post.......an invitation to an event that states that the dress for the evening is "business" is by no means the same as an invitation stating that the dress is semi-formal. "Business" dress is subject to interpretation; semi-formal is not. I stand by my previous statement.

 

And FWIW, I've attended quite a few business meetings in Cheyenne over the years, so I do have an inkling of how people in the "heartland" dress.

[hammybee]

I have been saying this for months. If you travel on HAL in Europe you will find the Europeans much better dressed overall than Americans.

 

Jade, if you travel in Europe, in general, you will find Europeans much better dressed than most Americans.

[hammybee]

What is your point? If you go to Paris or Lyon I'm sure you will find the average person better dressed than the US. But that

style veneer in no

way guarantees better manners

or class. I would much rather have a casually dressed interesting table mate, than a style magnet who is not. Try an off season Costa Cruise out of Savona and you will be pleading for the good 'ol US (or Canadian) hospitality.

 

I think you nailed it. :)

[twinkletoes4445]

DH and I have a tradition of wearing our formal wear on the last night of the cruise and we always get a few startled looks but we don't care - we just do it because we love to dress up and feel like royalty on that last night before we go home and the formal wear goes back into the closet for another year (or 2 or 3)!

 

How cool!! You sound like a fun couple. It's neat that you do this...and this is what it's all about. :)

[Pam in CA]

We travel light. It is nice, very nice. We each have a 20 inch carry on, no checking baggage, no waiting for bags, no luggage hassel at getting off, first off the ship. We can go for a month that way.;)

I'm with you but not quite that efficient. For instance, on my recent 28-day Prinsendam cruise (with 4 days pre-cruise in Athens), I brought one 25" suitcase and a carry-on. Period. I pack only clothes that will mix and match; nothing gets packed that can't be worn with at least two or three other things, i.e., slacks, skirt, etc.

[Pam in CA]

I'll refrain from comment ... other than to point out that she signs her posts "Rita."

The last time I looked, Rita wasn't usually used by guys. :)

"Rita" is a lovely name; it was my Mom's. :)

[RevNeal]

Ah Reverend, your restraint is inspirational, indeed. :) Popcorn? Cognac?

 

Both, please. :D

And, when I'm done: "Can I have some more, sir?"

 

"More!?"

[Copper10-8]

"Rita" is a lovely name; it was my Mom's. :)

 

Plus the Beatles had a song about her, something about a lovely meter maid!:)

[RevNeal]

Many would prefer a nice polo or button down shirt, and a pair of Dockers instead of a suit or tux, or a pair of capri pants or slacks and a nice top than a dress or gown. That certainly isn't scruffy or dirty. Rita in her last post mentions although not "up to code" formal, she is nicely dressed and clean in her appearance.

 

But why does "not formal" automatically relate to cut off shorts, flip flops and wife beater t- shirts ?

 

Because that is precisely what it eventually ends up becoming. In other words, and as I've said to Rita in the past, in this matter of "degrees of propriety" it's NOT going to stop with just the smart casual that you've describe; it has, in the past, and will continue to devolve to the lowest common denominator: which is, in fact, "cut off shorts, flip flops and wife beater t- shirts."

 

After all, the very arguments used against having formal nights can be used against having any kind of minimal dress code standard:

 

1. Some people are uncomfortable in long pants.

2. Some people don't like sleeves on their shirts (they feel like they're being bound by them).

3. Some people don't want to pack all that extra clothing that "Smart Casual" demands when, during the day, shorts and t-shirts are acceptable.

4. If I take up all that room in my bag packing pants and polos, I won't have room for all the shorts, t-shirts, and swim suits that I need.

5. What does it matter what they're wearing ... it's their vacation and they paid for it; if they want to wear shorts and t-shirts all day and all night long, that's their decision.

 

Absurd? Nope.

[pipedreams62]

Because that is precisely what it eventually ends up becoming. In other words, and as I've said to Rita in the past, in this matter of "degrees of propriety" it's NOT going to stop with just the smart casual that you've describe; it has, in the past, and will continue to devolve to the lowest common denominator: which is, in fact, "cut off shorts, flip flops and wife beater t- shirts."

 

After all, the very arguments used against having formal nights can be used against having any kind of minimal dress code standard:

 

1. Some people are uncomfortable in long pants.

2. Some people don't like sleeves on their shirts (they feel like they're being bound by them).

3. Some people don't want to pack all that extra clothing that "Smart Casual" demands when, during the day, shorts and t-shirts are acceptable.

4. If I take up all that room in my bag packing pants and polos, I won't have room for all the shorts, t-shirts, and swim suits that I need.

5. What does it matter what they're wearing ... it's their vacation and they paid for it; if they want to wear shorts and t-shirts all day and all night long, that's their decision.

 

Absurd? Nope.

 

 

Good point. I was on the Veendam this summer and it wasn't formal night,but I saw a couple doing brisk laps on the promenade deck while I sat on a deck chair. After several laps and sweating profusely they sauntered right into the dining room for dinner all sweaty and in track suits. Just plain clueless I guess????????

[RevNeal]

What is your point? If you go to Paris or Lyon I'm sure you will find the average person better dressed than the US.

But that style veneer in no way guarantees better manners or class. I would much rather have a casually dressed interesting table mate, than a style magnet who is not.

Try an off season Costa Cruise out of Savona and you will be pleading for the good 'ol US (or Canadian) hospitality.

 

This overused either/or dichotomy is actually an ad hominem non sequitur. The not-so-subtle implication is that so-called "style magnets" are are not interesting and have poor manners and no class. While I certainly agree that not dressing-up is irrelevant to issues of class or manners, it does not follow that if one does dress up one is going to be rude and a bore.

 

Personally, I prefer to dress up and be interesting, classy, and polite. :D

[RevNeal]

How cool!! You sound like a fun couple. It's neat that you do this...and this is what it's all about. :)

 

Agreed! Sadly, some people will presume them to be dull, boring, and rude. :(

[RevNeal]

Good point. I was on the Veendam this summer and it wasn't formal night,but I saw a couple doing brisk laps on the promenade deck while I sat on a deck chair. After several laps and sweating profusely they sauntered right into the dining room for dinner all sweaty and in track suits. Just plain clueless I guess????????

 

I wonder how "whiffy" was their perspiration, and what was their proximity to other passengers? Did those nearby passengers enjoy those sweaty odors, wafting across the table -- or from the table next door -- and into their space and up their noses?

[tpwolfe]

Well, let's see. In your first sentence, you half-heartedly apologize for insulting me (and the other 2.5 million inhabitants of the Washington, DC area) in your previous post. But then in your second sentence, you insult me again by telling me I need to get out more. You just can't help yourself can you?

 

I only insulted 2.5 million people out of 300 million. I need to work harder. I hope you aren't using Government equipment and time to make these posts.

[babyher]

Because that is precisely what it eventually ends up becoming. In other words, and as I've said to Rita in the past, in this matter of "degrees of propriety" it's NOT going to stop with just the smart casual that you've describe; it has, in the past, and will continue to devolve to the lowest common denominator: which is, in fact, "cut off shorts, flip flops and wife beater t- shirts."

 

After all, the very arguments used against having formal nights can be used against having any kind of minimal dress code standard:

 

1. Some people are uncomfortable in long pants.

2. Some people don't like sleeves on their shirts (they feel like they're being bound by them).

3. Some people don't want to pack all that extra clothing that "Smart Casual" demands when, during the day, shorts and t-shirts are acceptable.

4. If I take up all that room in my bag packing pants and polos, I won't have room for all the shorts, t-shirts, and swim suits that I need.

5. What does it matter what they're wearing ... it's their vacation and they paid for it; if they want to wear shorts and t-shirts all day and all night long, that's their decision.

 

Absurd? Nope.

 

Oh I don't think that it is absurd at all. I agree about the "give an inch and they take a yard" so to speak theory.

 

 

For this not to happen the cruise lines really need to step up to the plate. Relaxing the dress codes is one thing, turnng your back and letting everything be Ok is another. Once in awhile you have to say "S*** when you have a mouthful. Everyone is so worried about everyones itty bitty feelings that they spoil it for everyone.

 

You post a dress code , you make it known "smart casual " is the minimum accepted . You clearly state what is forbidden to be worn in the dining room at dinner and then you turn away anyone who walks in wearing that . FLEET WIDE....Every maitre"d in every dining , on every ship. And dare I say on every cruise line that has this problem.

 

You nicely tell them they are not allowed in the dining room in the bathing suit, sweat suit, wife beater whetever. Thats that! The person wants to complain to the Maitre D's superior they will be told the same thing.

 

They want to be insulted and vow never to cruise HAL again, well good luck. They aren't going to fair any better on Carnival, or Princess or Celebrity because they will have the same policy.

[Copper10-8]

This overused either/or dichotomy is actually an ad hominem non sequitur. The not-so-subtle implication is that so-called "style magnets" are are not interesting and have poor manners and no class. .................................. :D

 

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure

[babyher]

I wonder how "whiffy" was their perspiration, and what was their proximity to other passengers? Did those nearby passengers enjoy those sweaty odors, wafting across the table -- or from the table next door -- and into their space and up their noses?

 

See this is where I would definatly be complaining. I have always said I couldn't care less what others wear, but smell, especially BO just sickens me.

 

After too many years of being an EMT , I have seen things that would turn normal humans beings white. I can scrape goo and gore off of twisted metal and eat a sandwich at the same time, but I get a good whiff of something bad , it sticks in my nose and throat and just gags me.