Getting Past my Paranoia

[taxjam]

My wife and I booked the April 2010 Hong Kong to Athens cruise - to be accurate we have a reservation and must make the deposit on Monday. From reading the postings, I have a couple of concerns relating to the financial status of Oceania (I would probably have the same concerns for any other cruise line):

 

1. Cruise quality. Has the quality of the cruise and especially the food and service declined in any way? It's very easy to reduce staff or serve lower grade food to cut costs?

 

2. Supplier default. Since we have to pay in full in November, the 60 day from billing date protection afforded by credit cards does not help if a bankruptcy occurs after February. I looked at the trip insurance offered by O through Berkley (an AIG company) and it does not expressly cover supplier default which to me means it's not covered. I am tired of reading insurance policies so I'd like to know if anyone has this same concen and, if so, what trip insurance provider would expressly cover this situation.

 

Taxjam

[Orange County Murphy]

Have you tried InsureMyTrip.com? One can easily create a spreadsheet to compare coverage for pre-existing conditions, trip provider default,etc.

[hondorner]

Your paranoia is probably an entirely normal reaction in these economic straits. The site mentioned by Murphy is where I get my trip insurance; you can drill down to the details for all of there companies and policies. In addition, you can compare 2 or 3 policies at a time side-by-side. I have insured through that site 4 or 5 times, and have chosen a different company or policy each time as they suit my needs.

 

I won't try to dissuade you from your feelings, but I will say that I have never purchased trip insurance with the primary purpose of protecting against a default. I'm primarily concerned with health and possible medical transportation.

 

As far as the financial health of Oceania, I cannot think of a cruise line better positioned to ride the rising tide. I have not yet insured my back-to-back cruises next March and April, and I eagerly await the release of the deck plans and booking for the New ship, Marina, due out at the end of 2010.

 

As long as Frank Del Rio has anything to do with it, quality and service will never be cut.

[Rickey 88]

Taxjam, I think you must have read the few negative post that have popped up lately. Too bad, because none of them are based upon any fact other than the poster's intent to "stir things up".

 

The CEO of Oceania and its parent, Prestige Cruise Holdings, has recently written that bookings are doing well, and there are no financial concerns about either line.

 

From our observations and that of others, nothing has been "cut back" in the terms of staff, food quality or any other facet of their operations.

 

If financial stability is a concern, you should not purchase insurance from the line's preferred insurer, AIG, but should go to InsureMyTrip.com and search out other options. Also be sure to pay your deposit through a recognized credit card, as well as your final payment. In the unlikely event of default, they will cover your loss....

[Andee]

In January, 2001, we booked and paid for a cruise. In September, three days before we were to leave, the cruiseline went bankrupt. We had insurance, but first wrote to Visa; in three weeks our account had been credited. The Visa rep told us that the cruiseline had been required to post a billion dollar bond to do business in the US, so Visa could just go in and yank the money back.

 

On our first Oceania cruise in 2004, we became friends with a couple who had been booked on the same cancelled cruise--I guess we were destined to meet!

[taxjam]

thanks - a couple of comments:

 

1. re financial issues. My concern is more liquidity based - how the new ships coming on line can be financed at a reasonable price. Since O is not a public company there isn't a lot of info available

 

2. I have used insuremytrip - my problem is the very specific language in the underlying policies and whether it covers supplier default situations. I don't want to study all the policies and figure it out for myself - I'd rather get a couple of names and just look carefully at those.

[bigdipper]

thanks - a couple of comments:

 

1. re financial issues. My concern is more liquidity based - how the new ships coming on line can be financed at a reasonable price. Since O is not a public company there isn't a lot of info available

 

2. I have used insuremytrip - my problem is the very specific language in the underlying policies and whether it covers supplier default situations. I don't want to study all the policies and figure it out for myself - I'd rather get a couple of names and just look carefully at those.

 

I would suggest you take this up with TA. We have back-to-back cruises coming up with Oceania and insurance purchase within 21 days of initial payment is intended to cover both pre-existing medical conditions and supplier default. My belief is that credit card protection is problematic beyond 60 days after the purchase.

[meow!]

In January, 2001, we booked and paid for a cruise. In September, three days before we were to leave, the cruiseline went bankrupt. We had insurance, but first wrote to Visa; in three weeks our account had been credited.

We booked the former Renaissance at about the same time using our American Express. Renaissance went under. We did not call or had to do anything, American Express just gave us back our money, period, no questions asked, and no forms to fill.

[taxjam]

I'm using amex, but when R went belly up that was a different era. If you read the fair credit billing act, your claim period is 60 days from the billing date, period.

[vaitape]

BigDipper, could you please tell me who you are insured with.....great that you can purchase within 21 days of deposit....mine is 14 and I sorta snoozed and missed the deadline! Many thanks!

[Hunding]

Paranoia? I'd be concerned about Somali pirates - though never enough to cancel my cruise.

 

For insurance, check out CSA in San Diego.

[taxjam]

Paranoia? I'd be concerned about Somali pirates - though never enough to cancel my cruise.

 

For insurance, check out CSA in San Diego.

 

When my wife first expressed interest in this cruise, I gleefully handed her a couple of articles I printed about the Nautica's pirate experience and said "is this what you like about the itinerary - a little adventure?" However, we talked to Oceana and they satisfied my concerns - maybe I am both paranoid and naive.

[meow!]

I am likely wrong, but I might have read somewhere some years ago that credit card companies hold your payment (for goods or services including cruises) in some special account pending the shipping/delivery of the goods/services. In other word, the credit card company charges you, but does not yet give the vendor the money (just hold it for the vendor) until the goods/services are rendered. If there is no delivery, the charges/credits are reversed. Can experienced lawyer Bruin Steve comment on this?

[bigdipper]

BigDipper, could you please tell me who you are insured with.....great that you can purchase within 21 days of deposit....mine is 14 and I sorta snoozed and missed the deadline! Many thanks!

I think naming names of suppliers violates board rules, but give me a call at 928-445-2052.

Ralph

[Bruin Steve]

I am likely wrong, but I might have read somewhere some years ago that credit card companies hold your payment (for goods or services including cruises) in some special account pending the shipping/delivery of the goods/services. In other word, the credit card company charges you, but does not yet give the vendor the money (just hold it for the vendor) until the goods/services are rendered. If there is no delivery, the charges/credits are reversed. Can experienced lawyer Bruin Steve comment on this?

 

Well...Consumer credit is not my specialty...if this were a real estate deal, OTOH...

 

I've never heard that they withhold your deposit--that would be news to me...

BUT, they do back up those guaranties with insurance policies...

 

As far as I know, Oceania (and Prestige) are fairly sound financially...but, if anyone is concerned, don't believe anyone here (What do we know?), do your own research...

 

In this economy, almost everyone is on some sort of shaky ground...But, if you worry too much about that, you'll never go anywhere ...or do anything.

 

Knowing I only have my deposit at risk...and I've got the credit card company...and I buy insurance (I use Access America:

http://www.accessamerica.com/

I think Oceania's offerings are way too expensive.)

...I'd take my chances figuring I'm as covered as I can get...

 

As to pirates...It's a free "excursion"...I've been on cruises where they sell a "Pirate Adventure" shore excursion! Seriously? I think the odds are you're okay...Nautica seemed to know how to handle it...

 

And, as to the quality going down? We were on Nautica in July 2006...and we were on Nautica again a few weeks ago (June 27-July 11)...and I can tell you first hand that the quality has NOT gone down...

 

Oceania provides a first class quality cruise experience. Food and service are excellent. The ship was in excellent condition. Absolutely nothing to worry about there.

 

Go...and enjoy...

[vaitape]

BruinSteve and Hunding, checking the insurance companies......many thanks!

[Leonid]

BigDipper, could you please tell me who you are insured with.....great that you can purchase within 21 days of deposit....mine is 14 and I sorta snoozed and missed the deadline! Many thanks!

 

I used to use InsureMyTrip.com, but now I use TripInsuranceStore.com. From my perspective, the latter company has a "can do" attitude that beats the former. If you need to change travel dates, no problem.

Check them out.

[vaitape]

I used to use InsureMyTrip.com, but now I use TripInsuranceStore.com. From my perspective, the latter company has a "can do" attitude that beats the former. If you need to change travel dates, no problem.

Check them out.

 

Will do Leonid....THANKS!

[spindrift]

We are quite pleased with Insuremytrip.com as we have changed trips and dates several times. They have always accommodated our change, and even gave us a significant refund for one of the trips which I promptly applied to another trip. I was shocked to have received the refund check without even realizing it.

 

Let me say that for pre-existing conditions, you must usually buy the policy within 10 to 14 days of your BOOKING--not before the trip. Since we have a couple of significant health issues, this is a must.

 

Also, it is not difficult to find the carrier coverage. It is quite clear in the summary of each policy listed.

 

Leonid, I'll also take a look at the other site, but when you have good experience with one, it is hard to change--the "old school" in me, I guess.:o

 

Sort of like O, why change a good thing. Right?

[hondorner]

I would like some confirmation about how the "Pre-existing condition" thing works. Here's what I understand:

 

I have a heart condition, cardiomyopathy, which is essentially dead heart muscle. No one is sure how it happened, but the cardiologists speculated I had a series of silent heart attacks which caused the damage. At the time I was diagnosed (about 5 years ago), I had an ejection fraction (a measurement of heart function) of 17 (normal is around 65). After 5 years of exercise to tolerance, careful diet and medication (Coreg), my EF is up to 30 and I lead a nearly normal life, although I tire more quickly than others. I also have an implanted defibrillator in case I have heart failure, which is how I discovered this condition in the first place.

 

Obviously, I always buy travel insurance in case something goes wrong, and I especially am concerned about medical transportation or repatriation of remains. But, like everyone else who books as early as 15 months before sailing, and who has had to cancel two cruises before final payment, I don't want to signup and pay for the insurance that early.

 

So, I carefully questioned the agent at insuremytrip.com, and she assured me that any condition that is under control, that is a condition that is entirely controlled by medication and has had no more than routine care by physicians, is not considered a pre-existing condition. In other words, I don't about my heart condition when ordering the insurance. I repeated the question a couple of different ways to be sure we were understanding each other.

 

According to what I understood her to say, a pre-existing condition is a condition that occurs or worsens within within a certain time period before the insurance is purchased. In other words, it is not a stable condition that existed before the coverage was purchased, but a condition that became extant within the period specified in the contract before the insurance is purchased. If the insurance is purchased within a set time of initial payment (for most of us, the time of deposit), any such condition is covered. But, if one waits to purchase the insurance, apparently they feel the only reason you might be purchasing the insurance is to cover a condition that just started to occur. In other words, they assume you would not be booking the trip if you were sick, but if you become sick, you might try to purchase the insurance.

 

I also understood her to say that any medical condition that arose after the insurance was purchased is automatically not a pre-existing condition, and would be covered.

 

According to my understanding, what it boils down to is that if I do not purchase the insurance at the time of initial payment, but purchase it later, and if I have contracted a serious medical condition that prevents me from taking the trip, they will investigate to determine if the condition existed at the time of the insurance purchase. If so, they will not cover it. If the condition arises after the insurance purchase, they will cover it.

 

What it boils down to is that my heart condition is considered stable and under control and is therefore not a pre-existing condtion under the terms of the insurance contract. I believe there is a period of time, perhaps one or two years, during which the condition must be under control. And, as long as I have no medical problems that have cropped up within those limits when I purchase the insurance, I will be covered for anything that occurs later. This coverage is effective even if it is my heart condition that worsens and causes the medical problem.

 

That's how it was explained to me, but it's possible my understanding is flawed.

[happy cruzer]

don, I could not follow all of your question.

 

However, HTH and CSA policies on insuremytrip cover preexisting conditions as long as payment is made at the cruise's final payment time.

 

That might make the question mute?

[orchestrapal]

Happy Cruiser:

That is very important information. Thank you for it!

I have never thought paying for insurance so long before one pays for a cruise was a prudent thing to do especially since we book a year in advance.

[hondorner]

don, I could not follow all of your question.

 

However, HTH and CSA policies on insuremytrip cover preexisting conditions as long as payment is made at the cruise's final payment time.

 

That might make the question mute?

While the actual questionwas fairly simple (Does anyone disagree with my description?), I admit the explanation is hard to follow. It was a difficult concept for me to understand and it was even harder to describe it.

 

But, yes, having pre-existing conditions covered when paying at final payment does cover the situation.

[redhead701]

My wife and I booked the April 2010 Hong Kong to Athens cruise - to be accurate we have a reservation and must make the deposit on Monday. From reading the postings, I have a couple of concerns relating to the financial status of Oceania (I would probably have the same concerns for any other cruise line):

 

1. Cruise quality. Has the quality of the cruise and especially the food and service declined in any way? It's very easy to reduce staff or serve lower grade food to cut costs?

 

2. Supplier default. Since we have to pay in full in November, the 60 day from billing date protection afforded by credit cards does not help if a bankruptcy occurs after February. I looked at the trip insurance offered by O through Berkley (an AIG company) and it does not expressly cover supplier default which to me means it's not covered. I am tired of reading insurance policies so I'd like to know if anyone has this same concen and, if so, what trip insurance provider would expressly cover this situation.

 

Taxjam

 

Access America (but not basic; comprehansive) at reasonable price

[Bowie MeMe]

I have been taking independent travel insurance out FROM deposit on the cruise only. Then as details come together I add flights, prepaid hotels and prepaid shore excursions (especially expensive ones ie balloon over African wildlife). I think that coming cruise in Sept that the additional items added to the cruise was $32 pp and the cost of the insured items was well over $5,000 pp. As experienced cruisers know the 12 day cruise opens many more spending opportunities :p and I have had at least two times that insuring the "the other parts" of the vacation have been a wise decision. My TA now does the details but I do check insuremytrip or others to see what the price range should be.

 

I also hope that I never have to use my Medjet Assist (medical evacuation insurance) but a one time need will pay for years and years of protection. (About $300/year for family (2) with AARP rate) This insurance pays for taking you (and travel companion) from hospital (must be 150 miles from home) to hospital of choice. Read that taking a patient off a cruise ship by helicopter and to a hospital is at least $50,000. I don't want to check it out for myself.