Are the Changes Temporary or Permanent?

 

I miss the old 14 night Mexico out of San Francisco- was a great cruise

That was my first cruise in 1984 on the old Noordam. Would love to see that so I wouldn't have to fly to FLL, not on the old Noordam of course:D

As someone who is the same boat, I never understood why the hotel managers didn’t throw some spiffs the way of the high revenue suite passengers. They should have the price paid available to them for everyone on board. A well placed bottle of comped Champagne (the real kind, ) a small cocktail party, a Pinnacle Grill lunch... Just something to let you know that they care.

 

We were discussing this the other day as we have no life, and it struck us as odd that they've decided to "ding" the high fare passenger just because their overall average revenues in the suite categories is lower. Would a bottle of Veuve make you feel better about paying a lot more?

 

Of course not. You would have to drink it first. ;)

So you're talking about something better than a frozen boot up the backside for booking early:D;)?

That was my first cruise in 1984 on the old Noordam. Would love to see that so I wouldn't have to fly to FLL, not on the old Noordam of course:D

I was going through some old stuff recently and ran across my Cadet Mariner certificate I got on the Noordam in Sept 1984 in Mexico. She was a nice ship- always had a great time on her.

Talk about changes that have happened. I believe those were the HAL "glory days".

I was going through some old stuff recently and ran across my Cadet Mariner certificate I got on the Noordam in Sept 1984 in Mexico. She was a nice ship- always had a great time on her.

Talk about changes that have happened. I believe those were the HAL "glory days".

I was on the ship in Oct 1984. The food was awesome at that point. The lobster tails were as big as my head;):D.

I was on the ship in Oct 1984. The food was awesome at that point. The lobster tails were as big as my head;):D.

Those were South African Lobster as I recall.

We were reminiscing about the Dutch woman holding tulips at the entrance, the line of officers saying "Welcome On Board", and the steward in white gloves escorting you to your stateroom (similar to Cunard's picture below). Last several times embarking they scanned our cards and we were on our own to find our way. Our friends were on their first HAL cruise and tried to tip the steward- he very politely declined and said "I just want you to feel like this is your home".

Those were South African Lobster as I recall.

We were reminiscing about the Dutch woman holding tulips at the entrance, the line of officers saying "Welcome On Board", and the steward in white gloves escorting you to your stateroom (similar to Cunard's picture below). Last several times embarking they scanned our cards and we were on our own to find our way. Our friends were on their first HAL cruise and tried to tip the steward- he very politely declined and said "I just want you to feel like this is your home".

I don't remember the tulips but I do remember the white gloves.

I believe POA1 is talking about some extras for those paying full price rather than those paying a discounted price or upsell price to a Neptune suite.

Yes, that's what I am talking about. HAL doesn't have to do it. In fact, they don't. Some hotels do things similar to what I'm talking about.

So you're talking about something better than a frozen boot up the backside for booking early:D;)?

Yes. We looked at our information from a cruise in 2003. There was a suite welcome cocktail party, a mid-voyage cocktail party, a Platinum American Express party, and a suite luncheon. All this on a SEVEN day cruise on the Zuiderdam.

Compare that to 2014.

I think we get that you don't want HAL to change.:D But HAL has to look to the future, and to the next generation, if they are to survive. "Sophisticated electronics" are just day to day necessities for business and the rest of the world. All of us old 'uns have had to learn new technology, and the younger ones expect it. The world is changing - has changed. To not keep up is to stagnate. It is totally possible to keep the old world charm and steeped traditions while accepting and embracing new (and current) electronics and ideology.

Really?:D You got all that from my post. I thought I was asking some question about what you wanted out of Hal. How many restaurants would be enough? What kind of electronics were you looking for? I'm guessing were all looking for interactive TV's to pull up our on- board statements, etc. I'm thinking that will be coming soon to Hal.

I believe Hal is a follower not a leader in updating, but they do get around to it, maybe not fast enough for you. I remember cruising on Crystal way back in the mid 90's, they had 2 specialty restaurant long before any other cruise line did. It was a great concept that did not gain any support until the early 2000's.

The only time Hal step out first was when they decided to revamp the Veendam and Rotterdam with those wonderful 'pooletts' which turned out to be a disaster. Maybe it's Hal's lot in the cruise line industry to follow.

You are right when you said it is totally possible to keep old world charm while accepting new and current electronics. I believe Hal will do that but maybe not fast enough for some.

Thanks, I see your point and appreciate your answers, but isn't there still a need for traditional cruising? Couldn't Hal niche be exactly that, traditional style cruising?

Even when I was younger, zipling, ice rinks wouldn't be a draw for me to a cruise line. I guess I'm just more of a traditionalist at heart. Give me great food, good service, great bars and you have made me happy, I'm pretty easy to please.

I personally don't need all the bells and whistles that seem to be necessary for the other cruise lines to draw customers.

Really can you ever see Hal with a zip line going across their ships, hard to fathom.:D:D:D

 

Totally agree with you Melodie. We enjoy HAL's wrap-around Promenade deck as well.

Hendrika

I believe POA1 is talking about some extras for those paying full price rather than those paying a discounted price or upsell price to a Neptune suite.

OK, I get that. In fact, that sounds reasonable.

How would you decide what "full price" is?

The price when the cruise first goes on sale, before it is discounted?

I wonder how the ships, which are notorious for not even being able to get your OBC correct, be able to figure that out and get it done. Might work, might not. Worth the suggestion to HAL.

OK, I get that. In fact, that sounds reasonable.

 

How would you decide what "full price" is?

The price when the cruise first goes on sale, before it is discounted?

 

I wonder how the ships, which are notorious for not even being able to get your OBC correct, be able to figure that out and get it done. Might work, might not. Worth the suggestion to HAL.

It would be up to the hotel management staff to determine, not the passengers.

It just seems like a good way to help ensure the loyalty of the high revenue clients. You've got several cruise lines trying to pick them off. All of the luxury lines are looking to get the high revenue customers from the premium lines, as are the near luxury lines like Azamara & Oceania. Even NCL is going after them with their Haven product.

Cue Hank to tell us what Celebrity is doing to woo this group. ;)

OK, I get that. In fact, that sounds reasonable.

 

How would you decide what "full price" is?

The price when the cruise first goes on sale, before it is discounted?

 

I wonder how the ships, which are notorious for not even being able to get your OBC correct, be able to figure that out and get it done. Might work, might not. Worth the suggestion to HAL.

Full price is what we pay at about 10 or 11 months out. Sadly they put on the "fire sales" closer to sailing (usually after final payment). Good luck getting anything except maybe a $100 OBC once they have all your money. We watched our cruise this year faithfully and it didn't vary enough to give up the Explore 4 benefits until the last month- too late to benefit from the drop.

Small gestures can mean a lot. As POA1 said, sending a bottle of champagne that cost HAL more than $3 with a thank you note from the HD or a note from the PG Manager with a couple of comp dinners would be a nice touch. Look at the sister company Cunard and how Grill passengers are treated.

One of these days one of the lines is going to take a page form the airlines book and quietly work with high volume TA's to start matching elite status to get the high ticket passengers. I wouldn't be surprised if it happening now with some of the high volume agencies. I'm sure NCL would love to get some of the full fare NS and PS passengers over to The Haven or MSC with The Yacht Club.

Full price is what we pay at about 10 or 11 months out. Sadly they put on the "fire sales" closer to sailing (usually after final payment). Good luck getting anything except maybe a $100 OBC once they have all your money. We watched our cruise this year faithfully and it didn't vary enough to give up the Explore 4 benefits until the last month- too late to benefit from the drop.

 

Small gestures can mean a lot. As POA1 said, sending a bottle of champagne that cost HAL more than $3 with a thank you note from the HD or a note from the PG Manager with a couple of comp dinners would be a nice touch. Look at the sister company Cunard and how Grill passengers are treated.

I see what you and POA1 mean and thank you both for your replies.

I just think it would be hard to determine the "full price". Especially when you say maybe 10-11 months out, given that cruises are usually open to booking at at 18 months or more out and may be priced even higher then.

Your reference to Cunard's Grill customers made me wonder if Cunard never has the "fire sales" that HAL does. Everyone in the Grill staterooms pay exactly the same, always?

I thoroughly agree that small gestures mean a lot. Some of the 5 star rewards fit into that category are are, indeed, appreciated.

It would be up to the hotel management staff to determine, not the passengers.

 

It just seems like a good way to help ensure the loyalty of the high revenue clients. You've got several cruise lines trying to pick them off. All of the luxury lines are looking to get the high revenue customers from the premium lines, as are the near luxury lines like Azamara & Oceania. Even NCL is going after them with their Haven product.

 

Cue Hank to tell us what Celebrity is doing to woo this group. ;)

Here it is 7:00 PM and you've given me my first belly laugh of the day. It was a long time coming.

Thanks for not letting me go without. ;)

I see what you and POA1 mean and thank you both for your replies.

 

I just think it would be hard to determine the "full price". Especially when you say maybe 10-11 months out, given that cruises are usually open to booking at at 18 months or more out and may be priced even higher then.

I'm assuming that someone on the ship is privy to what people in each stateroom paid. They could look at all the Neptune Suites and calculate the average paid. Since this is all computerized, they could generate a list of cabins that are one or two standard deviations above the mean (average.) That's how you determine which suites are high revenue.

It would be up to the hotel management staff to determine, not the passengers.

 

It just seems like a good way to help ensure the loyalty of the high revenue clients. You've got several cruise lines trying to pick them off. All of the luxury lines are looking to get the high revenue customers from the premium lines, as are the near luxury lines like Azamara & Oceania. Even NCL is going after them with their Haven product.

 

Cue Hank to tell us what Celebrity is doing to woo this group. ;)

Ok, I will bite :). We are not sure that Celebrity is even trying to woo what you call "high revenue clients." We think Celebrity has simply positioned itself as one of the two best mass market cruise lines (Princess being the other) while we have no clue where HAL even wants to be on this continuum. So what did Celebrity do? It started after Chandris (the original owner of Celebrity) sold the company to RCI. Once they found their bearings, RCI started investing in new ships which eventually led them to build 5 of their Solstice-Class vessels. DW and I think that the Solstice Class is the closest thing to perfection we have cruised in that size class (120-130,000 tons).

The design of these ships followed the Princess lead (with their Grand Class) of allowing for a majority of cabins to have balconies. Then Celebrity installed several decent alternative restaurants, several of which were quite innovative. RCI then put a real emphases on cuisine (although we think this has recently suffered from some cut-backs). We suspect that many Celebrity passengers started on RCI (RCCL) ships and then went looking for something a bit more upscale. We cruised Celebrity many years ago when they had the old Meridian, Horizon and Zenith and were not very impressed. Then about 5 years ago we decided to give it another try (on the Summit) and thought they were comparable to HAL and Princess. A few months later we did our first cruise on a S-Class ship (Silhouette) and were simply blown away! DW and I both thought it was one of the best ship designs we had ever experienced (and we have been on more then 70 different vessels) and loved everything about that cruise. Nothing we have experienced on several other Med and Caribbean cruises since that time has taken away from our enthusiasm for those ships...although we acknowledge there have been some cut-backs in cuisine.

We do not think Celebrity is really doing anything to woo away cruisers from other lines other then their innovation and high quality. RCIs cruisers provide a natural progression for the company that allows frequent cruisers who are Diamond on RCI to get Elite status on Celebrity. And with Elite on Celebrity you get some free internet, daily free cocktail parties, daily Elite breakfasts (with free Bloody Marys, Champagne, etc). We think their Loyalty program is 2nd to none although Princess also has some excellent benefits. As 4 Star HAL Mariners we get very little benefit other then free laundry and some price reductions on things that are already overpriced.

Hank

Hank - Just so you don't take it the wrong way, I really don't know what X is doing outside of a press release I read about their NYC sailings. I knew you'd fill in the blanks if there were any.

Ok, I will bite :). We are not sure that Celebrity is even trying to woo what you call "high revenue clients." We think Celebrity has simply positioned itself as one of the two best mass market cruise lines (Princess being the other) while we have no clue where HAL even wants to be on this continuum. So what did Celebrity do? It started after Chandris (the original owner of Celebrity) sold the company to RCI. Once they found their bearings, RCI started investing in new ships which eventually led them to build 5 of their Solstice-Class vessels. DW and I think that the Solstice Class is the closest thing to perfection we have cruised in that size class (120-130,000 tons).

 

The design of these ships followed the Princess lead (with their Grand Class) of allowing for a majority of cabins to have balconies. Then Celebrity installed several decent alternative restaurants, several of which were quite innovative. RCI then put a real emphases on cuisine (although we think this has recently suffered from some cut-backs). We suspect that many Celebrity passengers started on RCI (RCCL) ships and then went looking for something a bit more upscale. We cruised Celebrity many years ago when they had the old Meridian, Horizon and Zenith and were not very impressed. Then about 5 years ago we decided to give it another try (on the Summit) and thought they were comparable to HAL and Princess. A few months later we did our first cruise on a S-Class ship (Silhouette) and were simply blown away! DW and I both thought it was one of the best ship designs we had ever experienced (and we have been on more then 70 different vessels) and loved everything about that cruise. Nothing we have experienced on several other Med and Caribbean cruises since that time has taken away from our enthusiasm for those ships...although we acknowledge there have been some cut-backs in cuisine.

 

We do not think Celebrity is really doing anything to woo away cruisers from other lines other then their innovation and high quality. RCIs cruisers provide a natural progression for the company that allows frequent cruisers who are Diamond on RCI to get Elite status on Celebrity. And with Elite on Celebrity you get some free internet, daily free cocktail parties, daily Elite breakfasts (with free Bloody Marys, Champagne, etc). We think their Loyalty program is 2nd to none although Princess also has some excellent benefits. As 4 Star HAL Mariners we get very little benefit other then free laundry and some price reductions on things that are already overpriced.

 

Hank

I've found the food not good on celebrity and the service poor. I know how love it but it's mediocre in my mind. Princess puts out a solid product but I can tell you there is nothing special about a suite on Princess. I prefer Hal's.

Princess and Celebrity did not have to woo us. They simply have a product and an environment that we like. For us it represents good value because they both tick the boxes that matter to us. HAL used to be there but not nearly as much any more.

I agree with Hank about Celebrity. Solstice Class are some of my favorite ships and I like their Modern Luxury theme. They create a swanky South Beach feel in the Martini Bar and in the Sky Lounge. It may not be for everyone, but I think they have carved a great niche for themselves with this ship class.

Princess, I gotta say, I'm not thrilled with, especially the small staterooms with dated decor. It's more active than HAL but to be honest, I'm not sure what their niche is either. They got the MUTS thing down pretty good, but I don't know what else makes them unique. I say this not having cruised their new Royal Class though.

I guess I'm just a bigger fan of a RCCL ships than Carnival Corp ships.

I've found the food not good on celebrity and the service poor. I know how love it but it's mediocre in my mind. Princess puts out a solid product but I can tell you there is nothing special about a suite on Princess. I prefer Hal's.

We hear ya! But keep in mind that the vast majority of cruisers (including moi) do not book suites. On several HAL ships the only way to get a veranda is to book a balcony, but on most Celebrity and Princess ships there are over thousand balcony cabins. Now I will toss out an issue about suites. The reason we never book suites on HAL, Celebrity, Princess, etc. is that if we want to spend that kind of money we prefer to go on an ultra-luxury line.

If we book a Neptune Suite on HAL, we are going to pay a lot more money (often double+) for a pretty nice cabin. But DW and I only spend 2 or 3 waking hours (max) in our cabin. When we are sleeping we do not care if we are in a large cabin, and when we are out in public areas that large cabin does us no good. But when you book an expensive Neptune suite you will get the same food as the person in the cheapest inside cabin, the same entertainment, the same public spaces, the same cocktails, and the same fellow cruisers. When we want to spend the big bucks we go on a true premium line (such as Regent, Crystal, etc) where we are going to get an improvement in all aspects of the cruise. Personally, we would rather book the cheapest cabin on Crystal or Regent then the most expensive cabin on HAL, Princess or Celebrity. To us it is like a hotel where we have no interest in the big suite in a Holiday Inn, but would prefer a normal room in a Four Seasons.

Hank

When you put it like that, I can see why my parents feel so comfortable on HAL.

 

Through the last several decades, they have stubbornly resisted change. (My parents, that is.) At every opportunity to adopt new ideas or technology, they didn't. At the time it must not have seemed like a big deal, but the differences between them and some other folks their age are now glaring:

 

They don't have a cell phone, or an answering machine, or a DVD player or a GPS. They don't use a microwave for anything other than reheating a cup of coffee. Biggest of all (at least to me) -- they don't own or have any idea how to use a computer.

 

Unfortunately, I think they have started to realize how their choices are making an impact on their lives -- like the fact that their only grandson communicates almost solely via text messaging and (grudgingly) emails.

 

Perhaps one day HAL will find themselves in a similar position if they don't start adopting newer technology that other ships are offering....

I don't know the age of your parents, but if you encourage them, perhaps they would be willing to adopt some of the new technology..

When I joined our company we took reservations by hand..My company sent me & three others to Brussels to learn the new computer system, which every Reservation/Sales office in the world was going to use.. I panicked as had never used a computer in my life.. But I got through the course by hand writing everything down..When I got home I kept going over my notes on my free time..

When our office moved & turned over to computer reservations, we had several older Agents who actually broke down crying because they thought they could not master it, even thought they had a two week course in the U.S. .. The four original Agents who went to Brussels, sat with them to calm them down & help them...Eventually every Agent was able to assist & put in all the reservations prior to the public turnover.. Boy did we breathe a sigh a relief!

I would bet that if family members purchased a simple I Pad or tablet for their parents as a birthday or Christmas gift & teach them how to use it, they might be surprised.. I have Friends in their 80's who just were given I-pads from their kids & love it.

I'm in my 70's & have had a computer for many years, but went to adult education courses to learn how to use it...Only had the courage to buy my own computer after I retired in my early 50's...

Came across this ad the other day & it seems to be a simple solution for many computer challenged seniors...Have no idea what is costs..,

http://techcrunch.com/2012/05/14/remember-jitterbug-phones-for-seniors-heres-the-ipad-equivalent-called-family-ribbon/

I don't know the age of your parents, but if you encourage them, perhaps they would be willing to adopt some of the new technology..

 

When I joined our company we took reservations by hand..My company sent me & three others to Brussels to learn the new computer system, which every Reservation/Sales office in the world was going to use.. I panicked as had never used a computer in my life.. But I got through the course by hand writing everything down..When I got home I kept going over my notes on my free time..

 

When our office moved & turned over to computer reservations, we had several older Agents who actually broke down crying because they thought they could not master it, even thought they had a two week course in the U.S. .. The four original Agents who went to Brussels, sat with them to calm them down & help them...Eventually every Agent was able to assist & put in all the reservations prior to the public turnover.. Boy did we breathe a sigh a relief!

 

I would bet that if family members purchased a simple I Pad or tablet for their parents as a birthday or Christmas gift & teach them how to use it, they might be surprised.. I have Friends in their 80's who just were given I-pads from their kids & love it.

 

I'm in my 70's & have had a computer for many years, but went to adult education courses to learn how to use it...Only had the courage to buy my own computer after I retired in my early 50's...

 

Came across this ad the other day & it seems to be a simple solution for many computer challenged seniors...Have no idea what is costs..,

 

http://techcrunch.com/2012/05/14/remember-jitterbug-phones-for-seniors-heres-the-ipad-equivalent-called-family-ribbon/

Having to learn for work purposes and leisure is completely different. My mom has zero interest in having a computer or and ipad. I know she would be beyond stressed about it. Some seniors might enjoy it but some just don't care. Not everyone needs to embrace technology.

HAL invented the Lido concept. Before HAL, one dined in the dining room for lunch. That meant no shorts or bathing suits. From time to time, there was a buffet on deck.

HAL needs to be inventive again.

I'm assuming that someone on the ship is privy to what people in each stateroom paid. They could look at all the Neptune Suites and calculate the average paid. Since this is all computerized, they could generate a list of cabins that are one or two standard deviations above the mean (average.) That's how you determine which suites are high revenue.

Good idea, but a lot of work for what seems to be an overworked purser's office as is.