Are the Changes Temporary or Permanent?

[catl331]

Many HAL pax may not realize, what is now Pinnacle was once a freebie.

How long ago was that? I'm pretty sure on our first HAL cruise (2002) the specialty restaurant (not yet called PG) was not free.

[jtl513]

Actually, there are a lot of ads that say something like, "No other {whatever} works better!"

 

That actually means that the other {whatever} works the same.

Yes, but even then there is something in the ad that says or implies they are better than the competition - or else there would be no point of paying for the ad. Edited July 27, 2014 by jtl513

[mariner]

Cat, It would have ben in the 90s and maybe early 2000s. It was called Odyssey on some ships. Italian menu.

 

Seabourn is not stuffy. Far from it.

[frankc98376]

Cat, It would have ben in the 90s and maybe early 2000s. It was called Odyssey on some ships. Italian menu.

 

Seabourn is not stuffy. Far from it.

 

Thanks!

[mariner]

It is dressy though.

[frankc98376]

It is dressy though.

that is fine- need a good reason to dust off the tuxes :)

[mariner]

You'll see tuxes on optional formal nights. The casual nights are very country club casual. Blazers, sport coats, cocktail dresses.

[Mekka]

I seems to me that HAL still offers very good value, but at a different level of quality (lower). The only exception might be the Neptune Suites, which are at a rather high price point relative to the quality and service provided on the ship. I suppose some people simply want a very large cabin, but it always surprises me that people will pay such a high daily rate when they have attractive options on luxury lines. For the cheaper cabins, HAL seems quite competitive on pricing as long as you aren't hung up on what they were like in the past. Unfortunately, HAL may be stuck with their reputation for quite some time. They have become a mass market line and will have trouble charging any kind of a price premium for the foreseeable future.

[UPNYGuy]

All these issues mentioned in here are all the reasons why DW and I have switched to sailing Norwegian Cruise Line. We love to dine in the specialty restaurants, and NCL has a package that makes the specialties around $16 per person per day. The food is excellent, and of great variety. Not to mention that on our last 2 sailings, the service was markedly better than ANY we have experienced on Holland.

[PathfinderEss]

Do not take this as a insult to HAL, but what exactly is their niche? Unique approaches to the cruise industry come to my mind when I think of pretty much every other cruise line, but nothing comes to mind with HAL. Is it their lack of a niche that makes them unique...the attempt to stay traditional while others are evolving? I really don't know.

 

But on that note, I haven't been cruising HAL long enough to see cutbacks, but I have with others. Those same complaints can be heard on every single major cruise line out there. Thing is, some lines are cutting back while at the same time adding more.

 

I totally get what your saying but I do have a question - in a couple of words describe the uniqueness of other main stream cruise lines that comes to you? I'm curious, because to me I don't feel any of the main stream cruise lines are unique. To me they have just become condo's on wheels.:eek:

You say Hal is attempting to stay traditional while others are evolving - into what? To me they have just become cattle cars. There is no doubt that Hal has cut back but they also have added things. Years ago there were no specialty restaurants - no fancy spa services - no cooking classes - no wine tasting's - no happy hours - no Neptune - no Master Cellars dinners - no VIP parties, no taco bar, etc.

.....and the funny thing is we paid more for our cruise 15 - 20 years ago then we do now. It is interesting....

 

[jkgourmet]

We just cancelled our upcoming HAL cruise and booked a cruise with Celebrity instead. The X cruise is going to cost 40% more than the HAL cruise, and we are hoping for a far superior product.

 

I'm sorry to say that if you begin your cruise with that expectation, you will be dissapointed. Both lines do certain things well, and others not so well. Neither is "far superior" to the other.

 

You can apply that same opinion to Princess, NCL, RCCL, Carnival, Costa, MSC, as well as Celebrity and HAL. Compared equally, cabin to cabin, they are all mass market cruise lines with similar offerings, but different 'specialities'.

[cruisemom42]

There is no doubt that Hal has cut back but they also have added things. Years ago there were no specialty restaurants - no fancy spa services - no cooking classes - no wine tasting's - no happy hours - no Neptune - no Master Cellars dinners - no VIP parties, no taco bar, etc.

 

.....and the funny thing is we paid more for our cruise 15 - 20 years ago then we do now. It is interesting....

 

 

 

Yes, but a lot of the things you list that HAL has added are at an extra cost, while the things that used to be offered at no extra cost have steadily declined. Fewer wait staff, fewer entertainers, fewer musicians, fewer free activities, fewer fresh flowers, lowered quality of food in the MDR, etc.

 

I'm not knocking HAL, this is the trend on all the mass market lines, but I think it's time we all stopped comparing how much a cruise cost in 1990 versus 2014 as if they were exactly the same product. They are not. The 2014 cruise may cost less (in adjusted dollars) but it also offers less at the base cost.

[Hlitner]

When we read posts that talk about all the mass market lines being "alike" we have to scratch our head (which has very little hair). Unlike some HAL regular cruisers, DW and I love variety and cruise on many different cruise lines (14 to date). Since we normally spend 70 - 100 days a year on cruises, this does limit what we can do in any year...but we still manage to mix it up. In the past 10 months we have been on HAL, Celebrity and most recently Princess...and we have another 38 day cruise coming up on HAL. Each of these lines (and several other lines upon which we have cruised in the past few years) are somewhat different. There is a totally different atmosphere on Celebrity and Princess vs. most HAL cruises. Cuisine has marked differences as does the entertainment (other then the big production shows which have a sameness). Our most recent cruise (ended in late May) was 25 days on the lovely Ruby Princess. It was our first cruise on Princess in about 3 years and we found that many things had actually improved from our last voyage. On Princess (and this is similar on Celebrity) we could enjoy some decent live entertainment after 10pm and there were actually many cruisers up and about at midnight. If you wanted something to eat, the Lido, Pizza place, and grill had very expansive hours. The Princess International Café is a terrific venue for coffee and snack lovers (this is open 24 hours a day) and became a popular hang-out for moi (and quite a few others) where we could sip excellent coffee/tea products and socialize. Unlike Explorations on HAL, the International Café had some excellent food offerings (all free), was always open, and had sufficient back-up equipment so that coffee and expresso products was always available. Ironically, on our last two lengthy HAL cruises the single expresso machine in Explorations was out of order more then it was working.

 

As to food, when you cruise on the Celebrity S-Class ships you have an excellent assortment of alternative restaurants with big menu variations. Go on most of the HAL ships and all you have is the PG, which has sadly seen a decline in both quality and their menu over the past 3 years. We are not overly impressed with the alternative restaurants on Princess, although their steakhouse is superior to the PG.

 

We did miss the HAL Eggs Benedict bar while on the Ruby Princess and were somewhat dismayed to see they had stopped offering smoked salmon (lox) on a daily basis in their Lido (it was always available in the MDR). And it was a pleasure to sit out on our expansive Caribe Deck balcony, day after day, with only the smell of the sea (no smoke) to stimulate the senses. And everything seemed to work and look fresh on the Ruby. All the ice machines functioned, none of the Code Orange stuff when you left ports, the automatic doors were always working, the ship looked spiffy with no visible rust on the hull, etc. As to the service on the Ruby, it was far superior to HAL in terms of cabin stewards and in the dining venues. In 25 days, we never returned to our cabin after breakfast when it was not made-up and cleaned. On HAL (and sometimes on Celebrity) the stewards seemed overwhelmed at times and did not make-up our cabin until after lunch on some days. This seems to be more a factor of understaffing rather then substandard stewards. On the Ruby we never had a feeling of understaffing like we now get on HAL. Whenever we would sit down in the Ruby's expansive Lido there would be a staffer at our table (often pulling out our chair) asking if they could get us some kind of drink. On our most recent long Westerdam cruise we always felt like the Lido area was understaffed and during Code Orange days we would sometimes have to stand in a queue for more then 10 min to just get a cup of coffee. This does not happen on any other cruise line!

 

Hank

[Aquahound]

I totally get what your saying but I do have a question - in a couple of words describe the uniqueness of other main stream cruise lines that comes to you? I'm curious, because to me I don't feel any of the main stream cruise lines are unique. To me they have just become condo's on wheels.:eek:

You say Hal is attempting to stay traditional while others are evolving - into what? To me they have just become cattle cars. There is no doubt that Hal has cut back but they also have added things. Years ago there were no specialty restaurants - no fancy spa services - no cooking classes - no wine tasting's - no happy hours - no Neptune - no Master Cellars dinners - no VIP parties, no taco bar, etc.

.....and the funny thing is we paid more for our cruise 15 - 20 years ago then we do now. It is interesting....

 

 

Sure. A niche can be attributed to NCL for their 100% Freestyle concept that comes with numerous eateries. A niche can be attributed to RCI for their unique ship designs, entertainment venues (Aqua Theater, ice rink), and some of their amenities (zipline, Flowrider, etc). A niche can be attributed to Celebrity for their Solstice Class ship designs, strict smoking policy, and again, some of their amenities, such as the Lawn Club.

 

Having cruised HAL twice, I'm struggling to think of something that gives them a niche. By evolving, I mean the other cruise lines are growing, designing new ships, adding options, etc. HAL still doesn't even have interactive TVs in the rooms (at least, not from what I've seen) and they share a ship design with other cruise lines.

 

I don't mean this to sound like HAL bashing because it most certainly is not!!!! It was something I asked based on a comment you made about the difficulty to establish a niche. I just don't know what HAL's niche is.

[iancal]

I think you nailed it. HAL no longer has a niche. The descriptor 'traditional' may have a warm and fuzzy meaning to long time HAL regulars but I suspect that it has a very different intonation to would be cruisers-their target market.

 

We like some HAL ships. But they could hardly be called Premium-only if you include Princess and Celebrity as premium which we do not.

 

I think that HAL has three major challenges. The first is that they do not appear to know what they want to be when the grow up. Huge disconnect between the marketing bumph and the shipboard reality. The second is that the fleet is aging and shipboard engineering systems, (HVAC,etc) have lost some of their efficiencies and can no longer be depended on in certain climates-especially Panama. Thirdly, our impression is that HAL has cut back-not only on service staff but on their shipboard maintenance and preventative maintenance programs.

 

One of the big differences we are seeing lately is what the various TA's that we speak to say about HAL and HAL ships. The message that many TA's used to give to clients is changing-this is going to be a problem for HAL.

Edited July 31, 2014 by iancal

[PathfinderEss]

Sure. A niche can be attributed to NCL for their 100% Freestyle concept that comes with numerous eateries. A niche can be attributed to RCI for their unique ship designs, entertainment venues (Aqua Theater, ice rink), and some of their amenities (zipline, Flowrider, etc). A niche can be attributed to Celebrity for their Solstice Class ship designs, strict smoking policy, and again, some of their amenities, such as the Lawn Club.

 

Having cruised HAL twice, I'm struggling to think of something that gives them a niche. By evolving, I mean the other cruise lines are growing, designing new ships, adding options, etc. HAL still doesn't even have interactive TVs in the rooms (at least, not from what I've seen) and they share a ship design with other cruise lines.

 

I don't mean this to sound like HAL bashing because it most certainly is not!!!! It was something I asked based on a comment you made about the difficulty to establish a niche. I just don't know what HAL's niche is.

 

Thanks, I see your point and appreciate your answers, but isn't there still a need for traditional cruising? Couldn't Hal niche be exactly that, traditional style cruising?

Even when I was younger, zipling, ice rinks wouldn't be a draw for me to a cruise line. I guess I'm just more of a traditionalist at heart. Give me great food, good service, great bars and you have made me happy, I'm pretty easy to please.

I personally don't need all the bells and whistles that seem to be necessary for the other cruise lines to draw customers.

Really can you ever see Hal with a zip line going across their ships, hard to fathom.:D:D:D

 

[Aquahound]

Thanks, I see your point and appreciate your answers, but isn't there still a need for traditional cruising? Couldn't Hal niche be exactly that, traditional style cruising?

 

Absolutely. In fact, that's what I meant earlier when I suggested HAL may be trying to stay traditional while others are evolving.....evolving meaning adding new features, designs, etc. HAL's reluctance to conform to cruising trends could very well be what makes them unique, and the audience who prefers the more traditional cruise could certainly favor HAL. The only thing that worries me about that, though, is how long can that approach last? Time will tell, I guess.

[cruisemom42]

Absolutely. In fact, that's what I meant earlier when I suggested HAL may be trying to stay traditional while others are evolving.....evolving meaning adding new features, designs, etc. HAL's reluctance to conform to cruising trends could very well be what makes them unique, and the audience who prefers the more traditional cruise could certainly favor HAL. The only thing that worries me about that, though, is how long can that approach last? Time will tell, I guess.

 

When you put it like that, I can see why my parents feel so comfortable on HAL.

 

Through the last several decades, they have stubbornly resisted change. (My parents, that is.) At every opportunity to adopt new ideas or technology, they didn't. At the time it must not have seemed like a big deal, but the differences between them and some other folks their age are now glaring:

 

They don't have a cell phone, or an answering machine, or a DVD player or a GPS. They don't use a microwave for anything other than reheating a cup of coffee. Biggest of all (at least to me) -- they don't own or have any idea how to use a computer.

 

Unfortunately, I think they have started to realize how their choices are making an impact on their lives -- like the fact that their only grandson communicates almost solely via text messaging and (grudgingly) emails.

 

Perhaps one day HAL will find themselves in a similar position if they don't start adopting newer technology that other ships are offering....

[Lizzie68]

When you put it like that, I can see why my parents feel so comfortable on HAL.

 

Through the last several decades, they have stubbornly resisted change. (My parents, that is.) At every opportunity to adopt new ideas or technology, they didn't. At the time it must not have seemed like a big deal, but the differences between them and some other folks their age are now glaring:

 

They don't have a cell phone, or an answering machine, or a DVD player or a GPS. They don't use a microwave for anything other than reheating a cup of coffee. Biggest of all (at least to me) -- they don't own or have any idea how to use a computer.

 

Unfortunately, I think they have started to realize how their choices are making an impact on their lives -- like the fact that their only grandson communicates almost solely via text messaging and (grudgingly) emails.

 

Perhaps one day HAL will find themselves in a similar position if they don't start adopting newer technology that other ships are offering....

 

I do so agree. HAL really needs to make some changes, which they can do without losing the "comfort" level. Playing catchup never works in any industry. And us old folks won't be their forever-customers.;)

[PathfinderEss]

When you put it like that, I can see why my parents feel so comfortable on HAL.

 

Through the last several decades, they have stubbornly resisted change. (My parents, that is.) At every opportunity to adopt new ideas or technology, they didn't. At the time it must not have seemed like a big deal, but the differences between them and some other folks their age are now glaring:

They don't have a cell phone, or an answering machine, or a DVD player or a GPS. They don't use a microwave for anything other than reheating a cup of coffee. Biggest of all (at least to me) -- they don't own or have any idea how to use a computer.

 

Unfortunately, I think they have started to realize how their choices are making an impact on their lives -- like the fact that their only grandson communicates almost solely via text messaging and (grudgingly) emails.

 

Perhaps one day HAL will find themselves in a similar position if they don't start adopting newer technology that other ships are offering....

 

Maybe that is the case with your parents but not all older people are like that. Most that I see on cruise have cell phones, computers and digital camera's.

Hal has adopted new technology, maybe not as fast as other cruise lines but they have progressed. Wait til you see the new way we will be checking in for boat drills.

 

I do so agree. HAL really needs to make some changes, which they can do without losing the "comfort" level. Playing catchup never works in any industry. And us old folks won't be their forever-customers.

 

 

Yeah, but when we started with Hal we were young for cruising. We're just lucky now that we are older, we can still cruise. It really is the cycle of life, isn't it.

Edited July 31, 2014 by PathfinderEss

[SilvertoGold]

Yes! Muster Drill, great new way to check-in: just run your card through he reader! Innovation!

 

Although I did miss Ingo, the Cellermaster, who was our Commander once. In a former life he had been a Drill Sargent in the Army and you could tell.

[PathfinderEss]

Yes! Muster Drill, great new way to check-in: just run your card through he reader! Innovation!

 

Although I did miss Ingo, the Cellermaster, who was our Commander once. In a former life he had been a Drill Sargent in the Army and you could tell.

 

Love Ingo, had him on several cruises as Cellermaster. Love doing wine class with him, he always made it fun.:D:D:D

[SilvertoGold]

Love Ingo, had him on several cruises as Cellermaster. Love doing wine class with him, he always made it fun.:D:D:D

 

Melody

 

You have been luck to get him several times. We were happy to have him the once. As our lifeboat Commander, he made the joke about bringing wine, whenever we ran into him A good sport!

[Aquahound]

Yes! Muster Drill, great new way to check-in: just run your card through he reader! Innovation!

 

You guys do know other cruise lines have been using those for years, right?

[PathfinderEss]

Yes, but you have to give Hal credit for advancing. When we were on our cruise in May, they actually had on the last night on TV, the color tags for disembarking the ship with the times that each color was to leave. Pretty good for Hal.