Are the Changes Temporary or Permanent?

[frankc98376]

Our first HAL was 1982. Yes, it has changed a lot since then- but then again so have hotels, airlines, etc.

 

When prices drop something has to go on the other end to balance it out. We pretty much eat every night in the PG (don't care for Le Cirque so skip that one). Service in the PG is very much like the service we remember from "back when".

 

We always stop by the PG on Embarkation day to introduce ourselves and verify all of our reservations. Once they see we are booked every night they ask if we have a table or server preference and it's set for the full cruise. We have pre-dinner cocktails in the Pinnacle Bar and most nights the Manager comes in to let us know when our table is ready.

 

So, we get the service we were used to- yes we pay more for that service but for us it is worth every penny (and we love the PG food).

[Lizzie68]

Although we always opt for 2-tops at fixed dining, we go the MDR on embarkation day for the Mariner's Embarkation lunch and enjoy beginning our cruise with others. Last time in FLL, however, we were seated with just one other couple, and the woman spent the entire time complaining about various things on HAL - and we'd only been onboard for 5 minutes. She hardly drew breath and said they had done 33 cruises on HAL - grabbing my chance while she filled her mouth I said "why do you continue to cruise with HAL if there is so much wrong?". Her response was that they are better than all the others. I escaped from lunch just as fast as I could.:D

[Dunelm]

One of the reasons DH and I prefer either dining with friends or dining alone for set dining on HAL is because we have been stuck with whining table mates before.

 

I am not saying that HAL is the same line it was 10 or 20 years ago, but sometimes a trip can be ruined by listening to repeated remarks about falling quality.

 

We so often hear from 2 cruisers on the same ship and their varying experiences and satisfaction. We try to judge a cruise on our own experience and try not to let others affect our trips in a negative fashion.

I agree with you so much. We were on a fantastic holiday cruise about four years ago, and were at a table for six. The other two couples did nothing but complain about everything under the sun, so we turned it into a little game. Each night, we would say, so what was good about today? When they had no answer, we talked about what had been good about our day. I am sure we got on their nerves. We would have moved except we felt so sorry for the two waiters.

[localady]

I agree with you so much. We were on a fantastic holiday cruise about four years ago, and were at a table for six. The other two couples did nothing but complain about everything under the sun, so we turned it into a little game. Each night, we would say, so what was good about today? When they had no answer, we talked about what had been good about our day. I am sure we got on their nerves. We would have moved except we felt so sorry for the two waiters.

 

Turning lemons into lemonade works every time!

Love your thoughtfulness to the wait staff! ;)

Edited July 26, 2014 by localady

[grandgeezer]

Check out the Celebrity forum if you want to see complaining! ;)

 

This is true. We used to be a Holland fan but switched to Celebrity because they weren't making any cuts/changes. That was until we went on Celebrity Silohuette in April. After that cruise, in our mind, they regressed back to all the other lines. We did the Amsterdam recently and it was as good as Celebrity. The only thing that keeps us with Celebrity as the front runner is that we are Elite Plus and get free internet, freee laundry, and some free drinks every day. We are 3 Star on Holland and all we got for free is that dumb tile. In the future, our cruises will be determined by itenerary, even if Celebrity doesn't go there.

[cbr663]

<snip>

 

I sometimes wonder about the people who complain about HAL going downhill.

They say they would be willing to pay for a better product but how much more? But would they really?

 

Most would not....otherwise they would have moved away from HAL to a premium cruise line.

 

We just cancelled our upcoming HAL cruise and booked a cruise with Celebrity instead. The X cruise is going to cost 40% more than the HAL cruise, and we are hoping for a far superior product.

[Aquahound]

We just cancelled our upcoming HAL cruise and booked a cruise with Celebrity instead. The X cruise is going to cost 40% more than the HAL cruise, and we are hoping for a far superior product.

 

Was it Solstice Class? If so, I think it was worth it. Enjoy your cruise. :)

[hrhdhd]

Many? I don't recall ever seeing an ad that said "We're no better than our competitors" ... or not quite as good as them. Even Avis when admitting they were Number 2 said "We try harder", therefore we're better.

 

Actually, there are a lot of ads that say something like, "No other {whatever} works better!"

 

That actually means that the other {whatever} works the same.

[SilvertoGold]

Last month HAL was offering insides on a seven day Statendam Alaska cruise for under $295.

 

 

Yes, many companies claim that they are better than the competition. But if they fail to change their customers eventually catch on. Just look at what happened, and is happening to GM, Chrysler, etc.

 

Yes, this is the sell-off pricing to get the last few cabins sold. It does not include the tax of about $180.00 of course.

You might notice that HAL isn't having to do these sell-offs now. They lasted only a few weeks. The pricing is a lot more now and HAL must be doing OK.

Edited July 26, 2014 by SilvertoGold

[cbr663]

Was it Solstice Class? If so, I think it was worth it. Enjoy your cruise. :)

 

Yes it is. Thank-you. We are hoping for some great experiences. We have booked an Aqua Class Balcony. We are looking forward to dining in Blu and using the Persian Gardens. We also like that there are more speciality restaurants on the ship.

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the new Pinnacle Class ship will offer so much more than currently available on any of HAL's other ships.

[cruisingagain2011]

Thanks Sayaguru, Kazu and Aquahound--I will try the steak and I'm sure it will be delicious! At least I won't have to shop and prepare it! I'm on vacation and everything will be terrific!

[mariner]

The old saying is: You get what you pay for.

 

In the "old days," HAL always cost just a bit more than the other lines, but you got so much more.

 

Then HAL decided to be mass-market. To compete with smaller ships, they must cut a corner or four.

 

Carnival kept them alive. HAL's management decided to play with the other mass-market lines instead of the premiums.

 

And no, what was taken away will never come back. The expectations of new passengers is much lower than passengers who have sailed far longer.

[SilvertoGold]

I see the problem of declining standards as a result of too many HAL ships competing with too many others. HAL may not have chosen to go the mass market (if you accept that HAL has done this) but has been pushed into it by the massive competition out there.

[PathfinderEss]

I see the problem of declining standards as a result of too many HAL ships competing with too many others. HAL may not have chosen to go the mass market (if you accept that HAL has done this) but has been pushed into it by the massive competition out there.

.........but couldn't you also say that is true of most other cruise lines, because most have chosen to go mass market. It is a very completive business and it is hard to establish a niche, especially now, when they are all fighting over our cruising dollars, while still trying to maintain some sort of bottom line.

Hal certainly isn't the only cruise line that passengers are complaining about service, food, and entertainment. As Host Jazzbeau said, just go check out the other boards. Now I know some don't have the time to read the other boards, so you'll just have to take our word on it, they are complaining.

[mariner]

The other lines have bigger ships. They can discount more. Offer more venues that cost extra. HAL doesn't have that option.

 

Many HAL pax may not realize, what is now Pinnacle was once a freebie.

[jadona48]

Sadly, I have found that a few passengers focus on the smallest issues to complain about. It is almost as if they are looking for a negative. It would not surprise me at all if they are the same people who are looking for justification to eliminate the daily tip, which they were probably going to do anyway.

[Aquahound]

.........but couldn't you also say that is true of most other cruise lines, because most have chosen to go mass market. It is a very completive business and it is hard to establish a niche, especially now, when they are all fighting over our cruising dollars, while still trying to maintain some sort of bottom line.

Hal certainly isn't the only cruise line that passengers are complaining about service, food, and entertainment. As Host Jazzbeau said, just go check out the other boards. Now I know some don't have the time to read the other boards, so you'll just have to take our word on it, they are complaining.

 

Do not take this as a insult to HAL, but what exactly is their niche? Unique approaches to the cruise industry come to my mind when I think of pretty much every other cruise line, but nothing comes to mind with HAL. Is it their lack of a niche that makes them unique...the attempt to stay traditional while others are evolving? I really don't know.

 

But on that note, I haven't been cruising HAL long enough to see cutbacks, but I have with others. Those same complaints can be heard on every single major cruise line out there. Thing is, some lines are cutting back while at the same time adding more.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Aquahound

[Rotterdam]

OTOH if Carnival Corp had not purchased HAL it likely would not exist today. Superb just wasn't making enough money. Isn't today's HAL better than no HAL? ;)

 

I had sailed on HAL back in the 1970's & 1980's and it was wonderful along with Cunard, The French & Italian Lines it provided the best in service, food & cabins. The Rotterdam V was an ocean liner not a floating mall that Carnivore brought into operation.

 

Society has changed & so has the holidays onboard ships. Yes profitability is a must for a corporation & Carnivores cash infusion kept HAL afloat & redesigned the ships, culture onboard & business model. They also reduced staff all around, quality of the ships & the quality of the food & drink.

[RuthC]

I had sailed on HAL back in the 1970's & 1980's and it was wonderful along with Cunard, The French & Italian Lines it provided the best in service, food & cabins. The Rotterdam V was an ocean liner not a floating mall that Carnivore brought into operation.

 

Society has changed & so has the holidays onboard ships. Yes profitability is a must for a corporation & Carnivores cash infusion kept HAL afloat & redesigned the ships, culture onboard & business model. They also reduced staff all around, quality of the ships & the quality of the food & drink.

Then it's simple: don't sail HAL anymore.

To you, it will be as if HAL wasn't bailed out by Carnival Corp, and had gone out of business.

[Randyk47]

I wish I could look at Holland America, and really any cruise line for that matter, with "fresh eyes". We started cruising in 1994 on Carnival and took our first Holland America cruise the next year. That's our reference point and all subsequent cruises have been and are compared to that point. The Holland America of 2014 is not the Holland America of 1995. Got that and understand things change and I doubt any cruise line is like it was 20 +/- years ago. Heck, I've changed and I'm not the 40-something that took those first cruises. There are some things that haven't changed, at least not significantly, like the still beautiful interiors and exteriors and the wonderful crew and staff for example. There are things that are better like the beds and bedding, the Neptune Lounge, the increase in dining options for example. There are things that are not so good like decrease in the level of food in the MDR, the general level of service in the MDR, the decrease and degradation of nightly entertainment for example. Some things are important some not so important but it's an individual and sometimes very subjective view. I for one will not bad mouth Holland America but at the same time may not sing Holland America rave song with quite as many choruses as some.

[igraf]

I agree with your comments.

 

Despite the cutbacks I am still sailing on a magnificent ship, stopping a various ports and not at work.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

 

One of the reasons DH and I prefer either dining with friends or dining alone for set dining on HAL is because we have been stuck with whining table mates before.

 

I am not saying that HAL is the same line it was 10 or 20 years ago, but sometimes a trip can be ruined by listening to repeated remarks about falling quality.

 

We so often hear from 2 cruisers on the same ship and their varying experiences and satisfaction. We try to judge a cruise on our own experience and try not to let others affect our trips in a negative fashion.

[SilvertoGold]

.........but couldn't you also say that is true of most other cruise lines, because most have chosen to go mass market. It is a very completive business and it is hard to establish a niche, especially now, when they are all fighting over our cruising dollars, while still trying to maintain some sort of bottom line.

Hal certainly isn't the only cruise line that passengers are complaining about service, food, and entertainment. As Host Jazzbeau said, just go check out the other boards. Now I know some don't have the time to read the other boards, so you'll just have to take our word on it, they are complaining.

 

Absolutely, Melody. What I mean is that the cruise industry as a whole is building a lot of ships, some with 4000 -5000 pax. That adds up to a lot of pax every week, week after week.

 

This makes for a lot of competition for all lines and pax are complaining that most lines have similar declining standards, etc.

 

Maybe there aren't really the pax out there for such a huge industry.

Edited July 27, 2014 by SilvertoGold

[frankc98376]

Makes me think if the people that buy a $39 ticket on Southwest and complain about being herded on and off and refer to it as a "flying bus". I've never flown Southwest and have no intention of starting now.

 

If you don't want to feel like it's mass market it's easy- spend more money. We love HAL ships and HAL staff. We pay more and stay in a NS and eat in the PG- voila- we have the HAL we remember. We are on the ship quickly and with very little fuss; the staff in PG totally spoils us as we see them twice a day. We usually stay in one of the aft wraps on deck 5 so get to know our stewards pretty well (they tend to work alone so have fewer cabins).

 

We've actually been looking at Seabourn and Crystal for a change of pace. Our only concern is that it may be too "stuffy" for us (for lack of a better word). We both love to laugh and have a good time wherever we are and aren't opposed to adult beverages. We aren't party animals (ala Carnival) but far from high tea on the Queen Elizabeth with our pinkie sticking out (anyone that has met us will know exactly what I mean).

 

I'm sure there will be many, many more changes before all of the dust clears. Some for the better, some not. We'll just keep sailing and loving every bit of it from the moment our feet step off of the gangway onto the ship on day 1.

[I_r_a]

>I wonder how much OP paid for those earlier HAL cruises compared to the recent HAL cruise (in inflation adjusted prices)<

 

My first cruise was on Cunard's Queen of Bermuda in 1967 - OV cabin with a porthole.

 

At the time, I considered $100/nite pp to be a good price.

 

That's about $700 at today's rates

(http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=100&year1=1967&year2=2014)

 

Our verandah cabin on the Oceania Insignia will be less than 1/2 that.

 

Ira

[casamariposa]

Can you tell us approximately when that was? Very curious.

 

It was April of 1989. I was sailing through the Panama Canal on the old Noordam when the Captain (Jack van Coeverden) gathered all the PAX in the entertainment lounge to make the annoucement. There was a lot of moaning and groaning, as you can imagine. I've continued to sail on HAL for approaching 500 days since then. Yes, there have been changes, but since I've been taking longer cruises and am interested in fascinating destinations, it has served me well. Not perfect, but I've enjoyed my cruises. I do avoid the "whiners" like the plague. I recall the woman on a transatlantic Maasdam cruise who pinned me against a wall the second night of our cruise complaining about EVERYTHING. On the 42nd day of the cruise, I heard her booking another cruise...for 68 days!...with the Future Cruise Consultant!