Are the Changes Temporary or Permanent?

[Tante Amalie]

My husband and I returned to Holland America this year after years of cruising on other lines (mostly Carnival, NCL and RC). We used to sail on Holland and remembered it as a premium line and quite luxurious. We were looking forward to a splurge and more upscale experience. We were surprised to find that there was very little difference between Holland and the others. In fact, I think the food and service was even inferior some of the time. At our dinner table, the main topic of conversation was how much Holland had gone downhill.

 

Do you think these changes are permanent, or is Holland going through a bad phase? Might it get better when the economy improves?

[Typhoon1]

Just like most cruise lines, they are looking for ways to save money. They will try the changes and see if it helps their bottom line.

 

If they are successful without too many complaints, expect them to be permanent.

[LHT28]

We sailed back before HAL was Carnivalized it was superb

we are doing a theme charter cruise in Nov so will see what the differences are

Over the past several years have read about the decline is service food quality from B. C.

 

 

We know it will not be like our usual line but it is only a week ;)

Edited July 25, 2014 by LHT28

[jaspersmycat]

The year that you last sailed Holland America will affect the changes you saw.

 

HAL is a company that needs to make a profit. Many cruises have rock-bottom pricing as the sailing date gets closer if there are empty cabins. To stay in business, HAL and other cruise lines, have had to make cuts.

 

Other "premium" lines also have discontented clients for the same reasons. I don't believe HAL is positioning itself against Crystal, Oceania, etc. If premium is what you want, you may need to switch.

[cbr663]

I don't think that anything is necessarily permanent in today's environment, but I don't think that things are going to improve very soon for HAL. I fear that HAL is lost in the Carnival Corporation and has been forced to ride on its history and reputation for far too long. With a 7 day Alaska cruise recently advertised at a little more than $260, the premium labelled is definitely at risk of being replaced by the budget label.

[localady]

One of the reasons DH and I prefer either dining with friends or dining alone for set dining on HAL is because we have been stuck with whining table mates before.

 

I am not saying that HAL is the same line it was 10 or 20 years ago, but sometimes a trip can be ruined by listening to repeated remarks about falling quality.

 

We so often hear from 2 cruisers on the same ship and their varying experiences and satisfaction. We try to judge a cruise on our own experience and try not to let others affect our trips in a negative fashion.

Edited July 25, 2014 by localady

[emjayel56]

We sailed back before HAL was Carnivalized it was superb

we are doing a theme charter cruise in Nov so will see what the differences are

Over the past several years have read about the decline is service food quality from B. C.

 

 

We know it will not be like our usual line but it is only a week ;)

Hi LHT... You are correct when Carnival bought Holland America the premium service we were used to with Holland America was downgraded a bit. I'm on a theme cruise too in November, are you on MSM cruise? Well have a great night. Maryjo

[Linda&Vern]

We sailed back before HAL was Carnivalized it was superb

we are doing a theme charter cruise in Nov so will see what the differences are

Over the past several years have read about the decline is service food quality from B. C.

 

 

We know it will not be like our usual line but it is only a week ;)

Can you tell us approximately when that was? Very curious.

[LHT28]

I'm on a theme cruise too in November, are you on MSM cruise? Well have a great night. Maryjo

 

Yes Maryjo ..I am on the Roll Call ;)

 

See you in November

 

Lyn

[LHT28]

Can you tell us approximately when that was? Very curious.

 

When it was Carnivalized or when I was on the cruise??

 

We sailed in 1990 though

 

I see on WiKi it was taken over in 1989 by Carnival Corp I guess they did not have a lot of changes happen right away but the past several yrs the services have reportedly declined

 

 

Lyn

Edited July 25, 2014 by LHT28

[jtl513]

We sailed back before HAL was Carnivalized it was superb

OTOH if Carnival Corp had not purchased HAL it likely would not exist today. Superb just wasn't making enough money. Isn't today's HAL better than no HAL? ;)

[sail7seas]

One of the reasons DH and I prefer either dining with friends or dining alone for set dining on HAL is because we have been stuck with whining table mates before.

 

I am not saying that HAL is the same line it was 10 or 20 years ago, but sometimes a trip can be ruined by listening to repeated remarks about falling quality.

 

We so often hear from 2 cruisers on the same ship and their varying experiences and satisfaction. We try to judge a cruise on our own experience and try not to let others affect our trips in a negative fashion.

 

 

 

Ditto. :)

 

 

 

Can you tell us approximately when that was? Very curious.

 

 

 

carnival Corporation bought HAL either late 1988 or early 1989.

We started sailing HAL about 1991 and we found it getting better and better through the years until it no longer did.

 

The recession and current economy have left and are leaving their mark on the cruise industry including on HAL.

 

[jimmy2x]

"The recession and current economy have left and are leaving their mark on the cruise industry including on HAL."

 

Very true. You can read the same lament on virtually all of the mainstream cruise line boards.

[Tampa Girl]

We sailed back before HAL was Carnivalized it was superb

we are doing a theme charter cruise in Nov so will see what the differences are

Over the past several years have read about the decline is service food quality from B. C.

 

 

We know it will not be like our usual line but it is only a week ;)

 

 

And when did HAL become part of the CCL? Wasn't it in about 1988?

[OCruisers]

Agree, it's ALL main stream cruise lines, not just HAL.

Sort of funny: We were sitting with another couple in the MDR on HAL for dinner who kept telling us how many HAL cruises they'd taken and how frequently.

Their big thing was how the MDR food was now awful. They had ordered steak. :rolleyes: Seems they would have learned by now to go to a specialty restaurant for steak ... not the MDR.

Apparently, they were slow learners. :D

LuLu

[cbr663]

One of the reasons DH and I prefer either dining with friends or dining alone for set dining on HAL is because we have been stuck with whining table mates before.

 

I am not saying that HAL is the same line it was 10 or 20 years ago, but sometimes a trip can be ruined by listening to repeated remarks about falling quality.

 

We so often hear from 2 cruisers on the same ship and their varying experiences and satisfaction. We try to judge a cruise on our own experience and try not to let others affect our trips in a negative fashion.

 

Interesting comment. I took the OP's comment to be a confirmation that others on the cruise felt the same way, not that the OP was influenced by others.

[Linda&Vern]

[quote name='sail7seas;43524118

<snip> Carnival Corporation bought HAL either late 1988 or early 1989.

We started sailing HAL about 1991 and we found it getting better and better through the years until it no longer did.

 

The recession and current economy have left and are leaving their mark on the cruise industry including on HAL.

I knew that Sail. I wondered if the poster who said "We sailed back before HAL was Carnivalized" knew when it was. According to my math' date=' we started sailing HAL 15 years after CCL took it over. It has now been 25 years! I don't understand why anyone thinks HAL has been Carnivalized. CCL is a corporation that owns many cruise "brands."

 

As you pointed out so well Sail - the recession and economy are leaving their mark on cruise lines ... and many other industries.[/font']

Edited July 26, 2014 by Linda&Vern

[BruceMuzz]

I have noticed a serious decline in the Cruise Industry ever since the Beatles broke up.

 

It's all Yoko Ono's fault.

[LHT28]

And when did HAL become part of the CCL? Wasn't it in about 1988?

 

In my post #10 I pointed out that WiKi has reported it was bought in 1989

whether it is the truth I have no idea

 

We cruised in 1990 at that time their motto was still "No Tipping Required"

Service by the crew was very good, food was good quality as well.

That was my 1 and only HAL cruise

Will be going on the Eurodam in Nov

[cruisingagain2011]

Will be taking my first cruise on Holland in the near future. Am I to assume that the steak in the main dining room is not worth eating? How disappointing!

[Boytjie]

I wonder how much OP paid for those earlier HAL cruises compared to the recent HAL cruise (in inflation adjusted prices)

[serendipity1499]

Hi LHT... You are correct when Carnival bought Holland America the premium service we were used to with Holland America was downgraded a bit. I'm on a theme cruise too in November, are you on MSM cruise? Well have a great night. Maryjo

 

Maryjo that is not correct... Many like you seem to be confused about the HAL purchase by Carnival... :confused::confused: Carnival has had nothing to do with the service going down on HAL..

 

Carnival Corporation purchased HAL in 1989, 25 years ago.. See the Carnival History: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=200767&p=irol-history

 

We sailed on HAL the first time 9 years after the Carnival purchase & we considered HAL to be a premium line! As JTL mentioned when HAL was purchased by Carnival, HAL was having serious financial problems & was ready go down the drain.. Carnival put lots of cash into HAL to rebuild it, & I'm happy they did!..

 

OTOH if Carnival Corp had not purchased HAL it likely would not exist today. Superb just wasn't making enough money. Isn't today's HAL better than no HAL? ;)

 

Completely agree!

 

Sail you are correct about the purchase of HAL.. I've seen misinformation about the purchase of HAL by Carnival many times on CC & don't understand where posters are picking it up these erroneous facts..

Edited July 26, 2014 by serendipity1499

[serendipity1499]

I wonder how much OP paid for those earlier HAL cruises compared to the recent HAL cruise (in inflation adjusted prices)

 

BINGO! You hit the nail on the head!:D:D What inflation adjusted prices ?

 

I've kept a chart of our cabin prices since 1998... Our outside cabins per night have not changed.. In some instances the prices have decreased!

 

For instance in Oct 98 our outside cabin was $267 per night on a 10 day South. Carib cruise, In 2001 for a 10 day Carib cruise it was $272.50 per nite.. Fast forward to Nov 2008 & it was $215.60 per nite, & then in Nov. 2012 for a 21 day to the Carib it was $231 per nite..

 

Many Psgrs are not willing to pay increased prices for their cabins & that IMO is one reason that service has changed!

Edited July 26, 2014 by serendipity1499

[Granny DI]

Our worst cruise ever was on the Rotterdam in 2002. I don't see how things could be worse today. We sailed on the Oosterdam in 2011 and enjoyed everything but the service in the dining room. We are sailing the Ryndam in a few months. I'm sure the experience will be better than the Rotterdam!

[Host Jazzbeau]

Not all changes are bad, even if the motivation is to save money. Frankly, I don't like "white glove" service -- how often do they change those gloves? It seems likely that service staff would wash their hands more often.