Should Azamara buy the Princess ships?

Ocean Princess is the sister ship to Azamara Quest and Journey and is currently up for sale. Rumour is, it won't be long until Pacific Princess is on the market as well. What do you think, should Azamara take the opportunity to expand their fleet with two more identical ships?

This has been discussed before when it was more theoretical, and I was opposed because Azamara really needs the full commitment from Royal for new builds to keep up with the competition (Oceania and now Viking Oceans). But now that it's a real possibility I think buying Ocean Princess would be a good stopgap because the ship could be refurbished to Azamara standards quickly and cheaply. The huge empty spaces on the Azamara calendar due to charters shows that they need a third ship and they need it now.

I wouldn't mind, for the same reasons that Jazzbeaux cites. A third ship would relieve some of the charter stress on the calendar. I think there's a certain market segment that loves small ships and has no desire to go large. Azamara has an exceedingly good reputation for its onboard experience. I bet they would have very little trouble filling a third R class ship.

I also wouldn't mind a new build, either. I have the feeling that it's going to get very interesting this coming spring when the new Viking Star starts sailing. The passenger load on that ship is about 900, they offer a mixture of free and pay excursions at every port (walking and/or bus), they have immersion experiences similar to Azamara's, and they have big bathrooms! Who knows? Viking might give Azamara a run for the money. No doubt they'll be keeping a close eye to see how this all plays out.

The biggest issue I can see is finding people like Carl, Johannes, Jose, Jason, Ryszard, Heike, Philip, Russ, Eric, Tony, et al to staff any additional ships. It's the outstanding senior officers that make the Azamara experience so special, not just the little, but lovely, ships. Without the folks named above, you might as well be on Oceania.

The biggest issue I can see is finding people like Carl, Johannes, Jose, Jason, Ryszard, Heike, Philip, Russ, Eric, Tony, et al to staff any additional ships. It's the outstanding senior officers that make the Azamara experience so special, not just the little, but lovely, ships. Without the folks named above, you might as well be on Oceania.

You have a group of staff captains all of whom are great people and able to step up, remember they head hunted folks from other lines as well, so my thinking is, if they do expand, they will be very clear on the person spec for each role.

Given how they do the rotas, with Ryszard and To y going between the ships it is probably going to be easier if they add two new ones, not one

Ocean Princess is the sister ship to Azamara Quest and Journey and is currently up for sale. Rumour is, it won't be long until Pacific Princess is on the market as well. What do you think, should Azamara take the opportunity to expand their fleet with two more identical ships?

If Azamara has any chance of building 1 or more new ships ? No.

If Azamara is not planning to build any ships ? In that scenario, I'd make the purchase - but only if the price is right.

If Azamara has any chance of building 1 or more new ships ? No.

 

If Azamara is not planning to build any ships ? In that scenario, I'd make the purchase - but only if the price is right.

The key question that no one on these boards can answer is:

Are RCL board of directors inclined to invest significant capx on Azamara?

The Board has a lot of competing opportunities and the need to keep investors happy. Over the next 6-9 months I believe the direction will be much clearer.

I would love to see a new build for Azamara but I don't believe it is cost effective to build small R class size ships these days. Oceania's two new builds take approx. 1200 passengers and the Viking ships I believe are around 1000 passengers.

I don't think finding crew of the caliber required by Azamara would be a problem. I am sure that there are many who have been with company for years and are ready for promotion but don't want to have to go elsewhere to achieve it. Therefore I hope that RCCL buys the Ocean Princess, but only time will tell how committed they are to the Azamara brand.

Like most we would love to see some Azamara new builds but have some serious reservations about what could actually happen. One has to assume the costs of building a 6-700 passenger ship would be almost that of a larger 1200 passenger ship so no doubt the bean counters would opt to go in that direction to keep fares at something near to the current levels. However I think a lot of things that we all value could be lost, firstly a larger ship would be unable to access some of the ports that we currently enjoy so we would be stuck in all the same old ports the main stream lines visit, secondly would it be the same intimate experience with the officers being so accessible? I some how doubt it, so Azamara would lose some of it's USP, in fact it would then make more sense to cruise with Celebrity and save some money.

On the other hand there is still a lot of life left in the R ships so bringing in one or maybe two into the fleet would allow for more choices of itinerary while minimising the capital outlay whilst keeping the Azamara feel.

Like most we would love to see some Azamara new builds but have some serious reservations about what could actually happen. One has to assume the costs of building a 6-700 passenger ship would be almost that of a larger 1200 passenger ship so no doubt the bean counters would opt to go in that direction to keep fares at something near to the current levels.

It will be interesting to see if Azamara picks up these Princess ships.

Used ships are SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive than a new one.

They could probably get both Princess ships for 1/2 the price of one new ship.

The main investment would be in refitting the ship to meet Azamara requirements.

If Azamara does not buy either ship I think it indicates that RCCL has no interest in the long term viability of the brand.

If Azamara does not buy either ship I think it indicates that RCCL has no interest in the long term viability of the brand.

Or alternatively they do and their plans for a new build or two are well advanced. I think no interest is a quantum leap statement. Let's all wait and see, for sure they can't be ignoring the possibility of buying and must have some high level work in place re strategies and scenarios

There are some areas of the Ocean Princess that could stay as they physically are but get a stylistic tweak. The bones are good.

Here's a couple of photos from the OP last September in the Med. The room should look somewhat familiar.

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Norris

One thing to keep in mind is the engineering aspect of the R ships. For example a number of environmentally sensitive areas/ nations are not allowing ships using "heavy" bunker fuel to transverse their waters. The two that come to mind are Antartica and portions of Norway. This issue will grow over the next year or so. A number of ships that did drive- bys in Antartica's last year can't return due to the fuel they burn.

The issue is the cost of significant engineering revitalization, or build a new ship burning the lighter bunker fuel.

One thing to keep in mind is the engineering aspect of the R ships. For example a number of environmentally sensitive areas/ nations are not allowing ships using "heavy" bunker fuel to transverse their waters. The two that come to mind are Antartica and portions of Norway. This issue will grow over the next year or so. A number of ships that did drive- bys in Antartica's last year can't return due to the fuel they burn.

The issue is the cost of significant engineering revitalization, or build a new ship burning the lighter bunker fuel.

Yes, but that would be an easy (says the non-engineer!) part of the refurb. And the new Azamara R-ship could then be used for those sensitive itineraries (if Q and J haven't already been updated). We did a ships tour on Coral Princess this year and learned how they are updating their propulsion systems to comply with new regs and respond to higher fuel costs -- all cruise ships are facing these issues.

Yes, but that would be an easy (says the non-engineer!) part of the refurb. And the new Azamara R-ship could then be used for those sensitive itineraries (if Q and J haven't already been updated). We did a ships tour on Coral Princess this year and learned how they are updating their propulsion systems to comply with new regs and respond to higher fuel costs -- all cruise ships are facing these issues.

Journey goes to Antarctica in January.

Or alternatively they do and their plans for a new build or two are well advanced. I think no interest is a quantum leap statement. Let's all wait and see, for sure they can't be ignoring the possibility of buying and must have some high level work in place re strategies and scenarios

I totally agree UKtog. I have no interest in getting into a "will they or wont they build" debate. It's fair to assume that newbuild negotiations and design do not happen overnight. FWIW, RCCL is performing extremely well, so we can hope this bodes well for Azamara. We've waited this long... and I'm fine with waiting a while longer. Besides, Azamara isn't going to give us a heads up on anything confidential. All we can do, is hope the end result on fleet expansion, will be a positive one.

Based on Mr Pimentel's comments on this forum and other Social Media outlets, I remain positive on Azamara's future.

We had coffee with Captain Johannes two days ago on Journey. He told us that the Captain of Ocean Princess was recently on Journey for the day and he stated that a lot of work would have to be done to bring Ocean Princess up to Azamara standards but it could be done. Azamara would like to keep the ship's small and of a similar design.

The implication was that it is very much Ocean Princess as the lead contender for a new Azamara ship, but Captain Johannes also said that a slightly larger ship ....about 1000 pax or so, is also very, very likely, bringing Azamara up to a 4 ship cruiseline. We also had dinner with the Staff Captain and the talk was very much of the new Azamara ships. These are firm plans and we can expect an announcement in the next few months. It seems certain the new ships are coming but of course, it will take time.

We had a fabulous cruise on Journey and for those of you who know that I have always been a Quest girl, well I may have been somewhat converted! Now I have two wonderful Azamara ships to choose from.....and that will increase to maybe four soon. Happy times! :)

Thank you for the information, hopefully we will have some good news in 2015.

The comment about Ocean Princess needing work is not surprising as we have said for a few years now that the Carnival Group companies do not look after their ships as well as the RCCI companies. We made a comment on Emerald Princess a while back that it looked in need of a refit only to be told it had had one two months ago.

One plus point on Ocean it is of the earlier R design so deck 8 consists of Mini / Club Ocean suites so there would not be the conversions that Quest and Journey required.

We had coffee with Captain Johannes two days ago on Journey. He told us that the Captain of Ocean Princess was recently on Journey for the day and he stated that a lot of work would have to be done to bring Ocean Princess up to Azamara standards but it could be done. Azamara would like to keep the ship's small and of a similar design.

The implication was that it is very much Ocean Princess as the lead contender for a new Azamara ship, but Captain Johannes also said that a slightly larger ship ....about 1000 pax or so, is also very, very likely, bringing Azamara up to a 4 ship cruiseline. We also had dinner with the Staff Captain and the talk was very much of the new Azamara ships. These are firm plans and we can expect an announcement in the next few months. It seems certain the new ships are coming but of course, it will take time.

 

We had a fabulous cruise on Journey and for those of you who know that I have always been a Quest girl, well I may have been somewhat converted! Now I have two wonderful Azamara ships to choose from.....and that will increase to maybe four soon. Happy times! :)

Thanks Lottie, very interesting. I wonder what larger 1000 pax ship he was referring to that would be available? Would anyone have any ideas on this ship?

We had coffee with Captain Johannes two days ago on Journey. He told us that the Captain of Ocean Princess was recently on Journey for the day and he stated that a lot of work would have to be done to bring Ocean Princess up to Azamara standards but it could be done. Azamara would like to keep the ship's small and of a similar design.

The implication was that it is very much Ocean Princess as the lead contender for a new Azamara ship, but Captain Johannes also said that a slightly larger ship ....about 1000 pax or so, is also very, very likely, bringing Azamara up to a 4 ship cruiseline. We also had dinner with the Staff Captain and the talk was very much of the new Azamara ships. These are firm plans and we can expect an announcement in the next few months. It seems certain the new ships are coming but of course, it will take time.

 

We had a fabulous cruise on Journey and for those of you who know that I have always been a Quest girl, well I may have been somewhat converted! Now I have two wonderful Azamara ships to choose from.....and that will increase to maybe four soon. Happy times! :)

Thanks Lottie! I like the sounds of this a lot. When it comes to Azamara there's no such thing as too much of a good thing. :D:D

That sounds like there are definite plans then! I did look at Azamara for our 2016 cruise but dates etc weren't right but would definitely consider sailing on this line again in the future as we really enjoyed our small ship cruise experience :)

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To answer the question if Azamara should buy old Princess ships, I would rather prefer to see Azamara buying new ships. I think that one disadvantage of finer cruiselines, is that the ships are really old and they are limits to renovations. I would love to see newer, finer ships. It would be an imperative also to keep the capacity under 1000 passengers.

I know the AZ loyalists will dismiss this Cruise Industry News article that appeared today, but I would keep an eye on RCL and its move into China.

The paragraph in bold is the most interesting.

Royal Caribbean and Ctrip Relationship Moving Forward

on 17 November 2014.

On the heels of a vessel sale to Ctrip earlier this year, Royal Caribbean Cruises continues to move toward an announcement with the Chinese travel company on a joint venture cruise line.

Cruise Industry News has learned that the Miami-based line continues to have meetings with Ctrip executives in Florida, as the two brands work toward a cruise operation involving both companies.

While the Celebrity Century is Ctrip-bound in April of 2015, rumors persist she will be joined in China by more vessels soon after.

Royal Caribbean and Ctrip signed an agreement during the vessel purchase to further explore possibilities.

In Tianjin at the China Cruise Shipping Expo last month, Royal Caribbean Cruises President and COO Adam Goldstein said there was room for an entry-level mass market style product in China. During his presentation, Goldstein said: “There is a role for many different offerings (in the market).”

Carnival Corporation has made it no secret they are trying to do the same thing by partnering with a domestic company to launch a Chinese cruise brand.

I know the AZ loyalists will dismiss this Cruise Industry News article that appeared today, but I would keep an eye on RCL and its move into China.

The paragraph in bold is the most interesting.

 

 

Royal Caribbean and Ctrip Relationship Moving Forward

 

on 17 November 2014.

 

 

On the heels of a vessel sale to Ctrip earlier this year, Royal Caribbean Cruises continues to move toward an announcement with the Chinese travel company on a joint venture cruise line.

 

Cruise Industry News has learned that the Miami-based line continues to have meetings with Ctrip executives in Florida, as the two brands work toward a cruise operation involving both companies.

 

While the Celebrity Century is Ctrip-bound in April of 2015, rumors persist she will be joined in China by more vessels soon after.

Royal Caribbean and Ctrip signed an agreement during the vessel purchase to further explore possibilities.

 

In Tianjin at the China Cruise Shipping Expo last month, Royal Caribbean Cruises President and COO Adam Goldstein said there was room for an entry-level mass market style product in China. During his presentation, Goldstein said: “There is a role for many different offerings (in the market).”

 

Carnival Corporation has made it no secret they are trying to do the same thing by partnering with a domestic company to launch a Chinese cruise brand.

Sorry.....you have completely lost me, and I suspect a few others, with this post. What exactly are you trying to say? Are you suggesting that Azamara will be sending ships to China? :confused: