Beverage Package Gratuities Update: 15% to 18%

This has gone off topic into a debate of crew wages and if tipping should be featured on cruises etc. There are other posts for these, and these two topics will always be up for discussion.

 

The tread was Celebrity advising us of the increase, and discussions as to what affect it will have for passengers.

 

I think it is safe to say it has not been a huge jump and not a huge affect. For example, upgrade cost from classic to premium package has gone up from $11.50 to $11.80 per day. 30 cents a day, $3 on a 10 night cruise. Not a huge deal from what I can see so far compared to the costs of the holiday as a whole.

Edited February 1, 2015 by LuckiePuris

On some Celebrity cruises out of Southampton the drink prices were what they were -- an all inclusive price which included the tip?

 

Yes, out of UK on European cruises drinks prices include a 15% tip, also beverage packages are inclusive of gratuity.

 

In addition, there is the "suggested" per diem gratuity added to your account.

 

When I first visited the US in 1980, there were $2.4 US to the pound (now $1.5), and people only tipped 10%!

 

Where did tipping 18% and 25% come from?

One question I would have - is this "tip" or gratuity optional?

If not optional stop calling it a tip or gratuity and call it what it is, an increase in the cost of the package or individual drink price. Plain and simple.

If it's optional then if you feel the 3% is too much refuse to pay it... let me know how that goes.

Thank you for your incredibly long post, do you have a point?

 

And thank you for quoting it, thus creating another incredibly long post with only a one line response!:rolleyes:

Tip no longer means gratuity. It's just another component of salary.

It's interesting the number of complaints I see from US folks about prices being high here, ignoring that they aren't changed a separate tax, as well as gratuities when it comes to pay.

 

...

 

Funny, we pay it either as a tip or included in the price, so what the heck is the difference!! People should either accept it no matter which way it is or find something else to their liking and stop complaining, because it isn't going to change.

I have just emailed two contacts I have regarding clarification on the changes.

 

- will the menus onboard australian cruises be updated to include the 18% gratuity.

 

- will the allowance on the classic and beverage packages be increased for australian cruises to account for the increased beverage prices.

 

- will there be less inclusions for those traveling on the classic package.

 

I will update when I have a response.

 

Thanks for doing this.

 

I'm still waiting for Celebrity Cruises here to get back to me with an answer. This thread has really gotten crazy. I wish he or she would get back to me so I could stop reading it. It's already February 2 in Australia so they must know something. We fly out on Tuesday.

 

Cynthia

I will pay my tips and always do in the USA. What really gets me spitting feathers is the naive acceptance of this principle by obviously wealthy participants. Did the recession not affect anyone in the US! I was brought up to value a penny and not be wasteful, to blindly keep raising tips without reason is not a service charge but an increased cost. I prefer to see the full price of my cruise cost as the additions we pay are increasing without the related improvements. The service on my Eclipse B2B last year was shocking, particularly by bar staff but I still left the gratuities intact as I appreciate the employer has a responsibility to ensure there are sufficient staff and they are properly trained. Apart from my complaint to Celebrity about the standard of service, how do we ensure that service is provided as we are blindly giving a tip for implied service whether it is received or not!

 

I also fail to understand how 'minimum wage' appears to be optional. In the UK minimum wage is a legal requirement with heavy penalties and Is rigorously enforced if ignored and compensation for workers is made.

 

Tipping is an arrogant means of showing superiority where people have to work for meagre wages and rely on the goodwill of others for their pay. Everyone should have a fair, reliable means of surviving and security in their employment.

 

I am a frequent visitor to the US and I now find, partly because the exchange rate is low, that costs in the US are now very high. Dining out is expensive prior to the tip, food in supermarkets much more expensive that the UK, only your Gas is extremely cheap compared to the UK where it costs at least 3 times as much but then we probably don't drive as much and have better public transport.

 

Interesting cultural thread this one. I appreciate everyone's point of view, maybe we are feeling the pinch a bit more in Europe!

Actually, the number of international pax exceeded US pax a couple of years ago. Sorry! :rolleyes:

According to the CLIA (http://www.cruising.org/vacation/news/press_releases/2014/01/state-cruise-industry-2014-global-growth-passenger-numbers-and-product-o), in 2013, U.S. passengers are still over 51% of the global cruise passengers. UK comes in a very distant second at 8.1% and Aussies are less than 4%. And if you look at passenger forecasts (e.g. http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/growth/), the North American passengers (including our Canadian friends) will only GROW as a percentage of overall passengers because our economies are doing relatively better than most other major economies, especially Europe.

 

But regardless of the specific percentages, the 800 lb gorilla in the room gets to dictate most rules, and it looks like the trend will be that it remains so. :)

 

Actually, as I alluded to in an earlier post, they _do_ change their arrangements based on the region, as do a number of cruise lines.

 

For example, "for Australian cruises", drink prices ARE adjusted for tips so that they are not added.

 

However, the disastrous consequences you purport will come about have not been evidenced. :rolleyes:

I was referring to general policies for gratuities and tips on most major cruise lines (i.e. not P&O for example). And the current share of the global cruise business for Australia is still approx 6% so I would hardly characterize that as thriving so it's very possible that you don't get enough Americans to sail aboard those ships.

 

There are always exceptions for regions and exceptions by cruise lines, but this thread is specifically for X's increase in the beverage gratuity, and my comments are based on the majority of the lines and their standard gratuity policies, the majority of tipping practices for most people while sailing the most popular itineraries.

OMG, what a load of twaddle. Ships cruise Australian waters year round where it is explicitly stated there are no tips as these are built in to the fare. The sky has not fallen and it seems the ships continue to make a profit.

 

Like so much other rhetoric that tries to argue reasons for tipping this too is false, and proven to be so.

 

Really, there are no gratuities on any Australia cruises? All sailings are no-gratuity? Really, I didn't know that! http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=1591. And even for the lines that have the no-gratuity practices catering to the local crowd, I submit that this only hurts their ability to attract more international customers based on the limited deployments of these ships/itineraries.

 

And BTW, it looks like the trend in Australia is changing toward US-style tipping: http://www.goodfood.com.au/good-food/eat-out/tipping-the-australian-way-20130228-2f7vz.html. There are tons of similar articles so this doesn't appear to be an aberration.

 

My bet is that, within 15-25 years, Australia will have customary and expected 10% tipping as part of their culture. :)

Edited February 1, 2015 by Terpnut

We just called and upgraded from the classic we got on the 123 to the premium. Only saves us $6 for our ten night cruise. But a kids meal at Bimini boatyard costs $5.95. Not much, but it's a free meal.

 

I remember 20+ years ago when the Bimini Boatyard was not a place for kids. But back then it sure was a 'playground'!

 

As for the tipping, giving some extra cash is king and you'll be treated like one!

 

Over the years, I've see some really rude and condescending passengers. Such passengers who 'demand' the most, are often the ones who tip the least. Cruise ship employees work hard and long hours and deserve some dignity and tips!

 

CC

I remember 20+ years ago when the Bimini Boatyard was not a place for kids. But back then it sure was a 'playground'!

 

As for the tipping, giving some extra cash is king and you'll be treated like one!

 

Over the years, I've see some really rude and condescending passengers. Such passengers who 'demand' the most, are often the ones who tip the least. Cruise ship employees work hard and long hours and deserve some dignity and tips!

 

CC

 

I remember the old days, Penrods, the Candy Store, Buttons on the Beach and many more.... I think only the Elbo Room still exists... (what a dive... I love it)

Edited February 1, 2015 by A Sixth?

And BTW, it looks like the trend in Australia is changing toward US-style tipping: http://www.goodfood.com.au/good-food/eat-out/tipping-the-australian-way-20130228-2f7vz.html. There are tons of similar articles so this doesn't appear to be an aberration.

 

My bet is that, within 15-25 years, Australia will have customary and expected 10% tipping as part of their culture. :)

 

US-style tipping? No, no, no.

 

Australians are obviously very clued up and pay their service staff a reasonable wage. And tips are seen as a reward for good to excellent service - rather than an expected wage leveller.

 

As per the article you quoted: "In the States it's often 20 per cent or higher, and if you leave lower than that they'll abuse you.” - Ouch!

I wonder how quickly this 3% rise will be followed by other cruise lines. :( I am sure they will be of the idea that if Celebrity can get more money in by doing this, then they may as well do the same, and save on their wage bill.

US-style tipping? No, no, no.

 

Australians are obviously very clued up and pay their service staff a reasonable wage. And tips are seen as a reward for good to excellent service - rather than an expected wage leveller.

 

As per the article you quoted: "In the States it's often 20 per cent or higher, and if you leave lower than that they'll abuse you.” - Ouch!

Guess I wonder how they will abuse you, since you tip at the end of the meal, maybe chase you down the street leaving their other customers to fend for themselves LOL!

 

p.s. might be a good idea to ask someone from the US about tipping, because if Nina Rousseau thinks you will be abused if you leave less than 20 percent, she doesn't know a hill of beans about US tipping and she must be trying to scare those non-tippers into tipping.

Edited February 1, 2015 by NLH Arizona

I wonder how quickly this 3% rise will be followed by other cruise lines. :( I am sure they will be of the idea that if Celebrity can get more money in by doing this, then they may as well do the same, and save on their wage bill.

 

Oceania has been 18% for years.

US-style tipping? No, no, no.

 

Australians are obviously very clued up and pay their service staff a reasonable wage. And tips are seen as a reward for good to excellent service - rather than an expected wage leveller.

 

As per the article you quoted: "In the States it's often 20 per cent or higher, and if you leave lower than that they'll abuse you.” - Ouch!

I think you have this distorted view of tipping in the US. I don't think things are as different as you think. Here in the US, please consider:

 

1. Tips are still discretionary, but it is customary for good to excellent service to leave an additional 15%.

 

2. Tips are not really a "wage leveller" because if you are a poor or bad waiter, you will not make much in tips and you will struggle to make a living. You seem to think that every waiter in America gets 15% additional to their wage as a wage leveler. This doesn't necessarily happen. So the US-style tipping system should not really be looked as a "wage leveler" but more as an incentive or performance-based system. You do good work, you make more money. You do crappy work, you don't get the bonus and make minimum wage.

 

3. Tips are paid post meal so there is no absolutely no way for a wait person to "abuse you". You are long departed before any wait staff knows their tip. So this part of the article is pure fantasy or fiction.

 

So if Aussies are truly becoming increasingly accustomed to giving 10% extra on occasion for good to excellent service, this is indeed a trend toward US-style tipping. So like Americans or not, Australia seems to be falling right into line! :D

 

Guess I wonder how they will abuse you, since you tip at the end of the meal, maybe chase you down the street leaving their other customers to fend for themselves LOL!

 

p.s. might be a good idea to ask someone from the US about tipping, because if Nina Rousseau thinks you will be abused if you leave less than 20 percent, she doesn't know a hill of beans about US tipping and she must be trying to scare those non-tippers into tipping.

Well said. LOL Edited February 1, 2015 by Terpnut

Oceania has been 18% for years.

 

Do you happen to know how long Oceania has been 18%?

 

So I wonder how long before Princess, Norwegian, Holland America etc. follow suit.

I have just looked at Celebrity website and they have not updated the details The FAQ still has this: "A 15% gratuity will be automatically added to all beverages, mini bar purchases, spa and salon services." I thought I had read that the Spa services were already 18% so looks like the website is way late with being updated. All a bit misleading for new customers.

 

I know this is a discussion on Celebrity and the raise of 3% for the service charge, but P&O manage to keep their on board prices very reasonable the drinks prices are very similar to those in many good bars, and no added service charge at all. The gratuities they add to the on board account are only £3.95 per day. The cruise prices do not seem to be hiked up to cover the fact that they do not have so much to share among the staff.:confused:

Do you happen to know how long Oceania has been 18%?

 

So I wonder how long before Princess, Norwegian, Holland America etc. follow suit.

I have just looked at Celebrity website and they have not updated the details The FAQ still has this: "A 15% gratuity will be automatically added to all beverages, mini bar purchases, spa and salon services." I thought I had read that the Spa services were already 18% so looks like the website is way late with being updated. All a bit misleading for new customers.

 

I know this is a discussion on Celebrity and the raise of 3% for the service charge, but P&O manage to keep their on board prices very reasonable the drinks prices are very similar to those in many good bars, and no added service charge at all. The gratuities they add to the on board account are only £3.95 per day. The cruise prices do not seem to be hiked up to cover the fact that they do not have so much to share among the staff.:confused:

i guess if P&O doesn't charge much for gratuities, that should be a super plus for those that disagree with other cruise lines that charge more, to cruise only with them.

i guess if P&O doesn't charge much for gratuities, that should be a super plus for those that disagree with other cruise lines that charge more, to cruise only with them.

I agree. P&O has less than a 5% global market share, and they are and will likely remain, Carnival's specialty line catering primarily to non-North American, and I suppose non-tipping, customers. :)

It looks like the horse made a miraculous recovery!

 

I think you have this distorted view of tipping in the US. I don't think things are as different as you think.

 

My view is based on personal experience (including research prior to visiting the U.S.) and the views posted on these forums.

 

I will state my understanding of the tipping situation with regards to the U.S. and by extension to the cruise sector (as "most major cruise lines run their business based on U.S. customs and practices"), along with an insight to the situation as I see/experience it in the UK. Then perhaps we can then determine whether it is distorted or not.

 

In the U.S. it is legal (in many states) to allow employers to minimise a member of staff's base wage with the expectation that their wage will be made up to that state's minimum wage by tips. "Federal law permits employers to include tips towards satisfying the difference between employees' hourly wage and minimum wage" [source: Wikipedia]

 

In the UK, where I reside, tipping is (perhaps contrary to most other people's beliefs) quite widespread throughout many 'service industries' - Hairdressers/Barbers, Bars, Restaurants, Taxis, Home Delivery, Postmen, Refuse Collectors (both usually anually) and many others, as a 'reward' for good to excellent service.

 

Now to your points:

 

1. Tips are still discretionary, but it is customary for good to excellent service to leave an additional 15%.

 

This does interest me. Are you now saying that tips, by default, are not expected/customary? That it is exactly the same as "UK-style" tipping? That "U.S.-style" tipping doesn't actually exist? Is there in fact no 'style' whatsoever - it is just tipping?

 

This appears to go against a lot of people's feelings I've encountered on this board - i.e. If people DON'T tip (for whatever reason) they are 'stiffing the staff'...The whole good to excellent argument being a non-starter.

 

...unless you wish to deliberately snub a server, you SHOULD pay a 15%-20% tip on beverage or food orders because that IS the practice.

 

 

2. Tips are not really a "wage leveller" because if you are a poor or bad waiter, you will not make much in tips and you will struggle to make a living. You seem to think that every waiter in America gets 15% additional to their wage as a wage leveler. This doesn't necessarily happen. So the US-style tipping system should not really be looked as a "wage leveler" but more as an incentive or performance-based system. You do good work, you make more money. You do crappy work, you don't get the bonus and make minimum wage.

 

Again back to point 1. Also I never on[c]e said that all 'wait staff' in America get 15% (or 18%, 20%, et al.) - but that is the idea, isn't it? I stated that tips are used as a wage leveller - which, according to Wikipedia and other sources, is a fact.

 

3. Tips are paid post meal so there is no absolutely no way for a wait person to "abuse you". You are long departed before any wait staff knows their tip. So this part of the article is pure fantasy or fiction.

 

I merely quoted an extract from an article you were using as evidence for your assertion that Australia is moving towards U.S.-style (or UK-style?) tipping. So how much of the article is pure fantasy or fiction?

Edited February 1, 2015 by GazW
spelling mistake...

Do you happen to know how long Oceania has been 18%?

 

Been quite a while now. Having experienced the premium drink package on both lines, I can tell you that Celebrity has the most flexible package. On Oceania, what is on the list is it. No discount per bottle for wine, no paying the difference for a drink not on the package as with X. The selection on X is superior to Oceania. Now as to the food, that's an entirely different matter! Even the Celebrity specialty restaurants pale in comparison to the buffet alone on Oceania.

It looks like the horse made a miraculous recovery!

 

 

 

My view is based on personal experience (including research prior to visiting the U.S.) and the views posted on these forums.

 

I will state my understanding of the tipping situation with regards to the U.S. and by extension to the cruise sector (as "most major cruise lines run their business based on U.S. customs and practices"), along with an insight to the situation as I see/experience it in the UK. Then perhaps we can then determine whether it is distorted or not.

 

In the U.S. it is legal (in many states) to allow employers to minimise a member of staff's base wage with the expectation that their wage will be made up to that state's minimum wage by tips. "Federal law permits employers to include tips towards satisfying the difference between employees' hourly wage and minimum wage" [source: Wikipedia]

 

In the UK, where I reside, tipping is (perhaps contrary to most other people's beliefs) quite widespread throughout many 'service industries' - Hairdressers/Barbers, Bars, Restaurants, Taxis, Home Delivery, Postmen, Refuse Collectors (both usually anually) and many others, as a 'reward' for good to excellent service.

 

Now to your points:

 

 

 

This does interest me. Are you now saying that tips, by default, are not expected/customary? That it is exactly the same as "UK-style" tipping? That "U.S.-style" tipping doesn't actually exist? Is there in fact no 'style' whatsoever - it is just tipping?

 

This appears to go against a lot of people's feelings I've encountered on this board - i.e. If people DON'T tip (for whatever reason) they are 'stiffing the staff'...The whole good to excellent argument being a non-starter.

 

Again back to point 1. Also I never on[c]e said that all 'wait staff' in America get 15% (or 18%, 20%, et al.) - but that is the idea, isn't it? I stated that tips are used as a wage leveller - which, according to Wikipedia and other sources, is a fact.

 

I merely quoted an extract from an article you were using as evidence for your assertion that Australia is moving towards U.S.-style (or UK-style?) tipping. So how much of the article is pure fantasy or fiction?

Nearly everything you say is true and I find little to disagree about so I'm not even sure what we are disagreeing on at this point! ;)

 

Yes, much of our gratuity system is based on a lower-than-typical hourly wage with a variable, performance-based "tip" as the bonus. You call it a "wage leveller"--others see it as performance-based compensation just like sales and other types of work. Please remember that "wage leveller" assumes that there is such a thing as a fair or living wage. More "progressive" nations establish higher living wages and more social safety nets, and I don't think that anyone here on these boards will disagree with me when I say that the U.S. is far less progressive than many European nations or Australia on this count. This at least partially explains why we have the system that we do. Americans (and the cruise lines have followed) are quite okay with paying a below-living standard wage, and saying: "go work your butt off and earn a good tip" so you will have enough to live on. They prefer this to a higher flat rate because in that system, everyone, regardless of quality or performance, are compensated more equally. And BTW, this approach applies to many sales-related and other careers here--so it's not just service tipping.

 

So to answer one of your questions: yes, people in the service and other tip-involved industries here would expect a tip for good to excellent execution of their job function. It would be customary and expected. My point is that, quite often services are not rendered or are rendered poorly and thus tips are occasionally reduced or not given. Not sure if this answers your question, or meets your or others definition of "discretionary" but that was my point.

 

Also, I'm not clear on the distinction between what you call a "reward" for good service in the UK, versus our tips. Aren't they still customary and expected? I have found in the UK,that tipping is customary and expected. While you may indeed pay a higher wage, with the poor global economy and high cost of living, I'm not sure tipping isn't, or at least is becoming, a wage leveller for everyone, no?

 

But getting back to this thread, all I was trying to do was establish (I guess especially for Aussies and others who have no recent tradition with tipping) was that the baseline for discussing the value of moving from 15% to 18% gratuity must be to 1) understand (and I suppose accept) the US-style tipping practices simply because that is what the major cruise lines are doing and what the majority of their customers are rooted in, 2) that tipping for food and beverage is/was traditionally 15% of the food or beverage amount, and 3) that US-style tipping is actually now moving higher, i.e. to 18% or even as some posters point out, 20%, and so it is reasonable to think that some or many servers and bartenders might have a new, higher threshold of "customary and expected".

Edited February 1, 2015 by Terpnut

Funny, we pay it either as a tip or included in the price, so what the heck is the difference!! People should either accept it no matter which way it is or find something else to their liking and stop complaining, because it isn't going to change.

 

Clearly, it has changed, as some were saying that the only model possible was that gratuities would be charged as extra, and that all-inclusive pricing would result in higher prices and/or the end of cruising as we know it!

Clearly, it has changed, as some were saying that the only model possible was that gratuities would be charged as extra, and that all-inclusive pricing would result in higher prices and/or the end of cruising as we know it!

When it comes to Celebrity (and most cruise lines) and gratuities, the term "all-inclusive" only means that, certain or even most passengers receive complementary gratuities. The underlying system of a base stateroom fares and gratuities/tipping remains unchanged. "All-inclusive" for Celebrity is not really all-inclusive. For example, if you order room service, it is still appropriate for one to tip the delivery because they are not included in the free gratuities. Edited February 2, 2015 by Terpnut

Hi all,

 

Effective February 1, 2015 for all sailings beginning on or after February 1, 2015, our beverage gratuity rate will increase from 15% to 18%. This includes all individual drinks and beverage packages (purchased pre-cruise and onboard). Any packages that were purchased prior to February 1, 2015 will still be eligible for the 15% gratuity rate, and no additional gratuities will be assessed.

 

This is my first cruise, so I am ignorant on this. We got a free upgrade to the "Classic Package", the one with low end alcohol and are happy with this because we really don't drink. After reading some of these posts, I have a question- does the price of the package include the gratuity or is that added on to our credit card? I was under the impression that it was an add to our card but, now I'm thinking it's included in the cost of the package. Please help me with this. Thank you!