RCL CEO Bayley Q&A on Allure President's Cruise

Currently in San Juan where there is a island-wide power outage due to a fire at a plant in S Puerto Rico. Heard from a crew member that tonights 130 am scheduled departure may be slightly delayed to accommodate late arriving pax as there are traffic jams all over.

 

RCL hosted a Q&A panel with CEO Bayley yesterday on Allure. Summary is as follows:

 

1. RCL will not sail through the Panama Canal in the near future. Cited economic reasons, i.e. $250K governmental crossing fee.

 

2. RCL will not do Hawaiian itineraries like Carnival is doing. Cited Jones Act.

 

3. Confirmed Empress was brought back to the fleet for Cuba itineraries. Believes those will commence in Nov/Dec. Cited political/government/Nov election as reasons for the delays. Acknowledged that Carnival Fathom was able to do what RCL wasn't.

 

4. $200 million terminal investment in Miami will be home to an Oasis class ship.

 

5. Promised to make gluten-free desserts available in the WJ. :)

 

6. No plans for a new Freedom or Voyager class of ship.

 

7. No plans to reintroduce itineraries from CA. Cited low demand.

 

8. RCL considering RCL Gold/Platinum level reciprocal benefits with Celebrity.

 

DD or smoking related questions were not asked.

Thank you for taking the time to share the information you received. Enjoy your cruise.

Specific to a couple of points....

1. RCL will not sail through the Panama Canal in the near future. Cited economic reasons, i.e. $250K governmental crossing fee.

Interesting...other cruise lines already service this, and with the larger new canal available...this would seem to be an attractive market that they could leverage existing ports. Furthermore, other cruise lines pass on the fee within their rates.

4. $200 million terminal investment in Miami will be home to an Oasis class ship.

No mention of which one or when...maybe with Oasis moving to Port Canaveral...and Harmony coming in November...they will do this once the 4th Oasis class ship is completed?

7. No plans to reintroduce itineraries from CA. Cited low demand.

We don't live there or have any vested interest ourselves, but from many friends of ours on the West coast...they report a solid cruise business for Carnival and others serving those ports. With all the folks in California...find the remark "low demand" puzzling, especially with the opportunity to perhaps introduce a differentiator ship like a Quantum class perhaps.

8. RCL considering RCL Gold/Platinum level reciprocal benefits with Celebrity.

Long overdue.

We are also on this cruise. Someone in the audience made the comment they preferred smaller ships (than Oasis or Quantum class), so they asked the question if there were any plans to build another Radiance, Voyager, or Freedom class ship. The answer was no, but he said if they did decide to build a smaller ship it would be a new class of ships.

 

Also, for the timing of Empress going to Cuba, we didn't hear him say that they anticipated starting in November/December. He said they have the itineraries and planning complete, just waiting for approval which he didn't think would come until some time after the elections. They are disappointed it is taking so long.

I know they can cancel cruises at any time, but Empress is now booked out through about Feb I think..... they are having a difficult time filling the cabins as they were announced so late.

Thank you for taking the time to share the information you received. Enjoy your cruise.

 

Specific to a couple of points....

 

1. RCL will not sail through the Panama Canal in the near future. Cited economic reasons, i.e. $250K governmental crossing fee.

Interesting...other cruise lines already service this, and with the larger new canal available...this would seem to be an attractive market that they could leverage existing ports. Furthermore, other cruise lines pass on the fee within their rates.

 

4. $200 million terminal investment in Miami will be home to an Oasis class ship.

No mention of which one or when...maybe with Oasis moving to Port Canaveral...and Harmony coming in November...they will do this once the 4th Oasis class ship is completed?

 

7. No plans to reintroduce itineraries from CA. Cited low demand.

We don't live there or have any vested interest ourselves, but from many friends of ours on the West coast...they report a solid cruise business for Carnival and others serving those ports. With all the folks in California...find the remark "low demand" puzzling, especially with the opportunity to perhaps introduce a differentiator ship like a Quantum class perhaps.

 

8. RCL considering RCL Gold/Platinum level reciprocal benefits with Celebrity.

Long overdue.

The Miami Terminal should be complete around the time O4 is done.

Thank you for taking the time to share the information you received. Enjoy your cruise.

 

Specific to a couple of points....

 

1. RCL will not sail through the Panama Canal in the near future. Cited economic reasons, i.e. $250K governmental crossing fee.

Interesting...other cruise lines already service this, and with the larger new canal available...this would seem to be an attractive market that they could leverage existing ports. Furthermore, other cruise lines pass on the fee within their rates.

 

While no doubt there are some economic reasons, but using the governmental crossing fee as one of them is a bit of a red herring. All the cruise lines set the price for the cruise apart from what they will have to pay for the tolls and associated fees for the transit. The tolls and fees are paid by the cruiser up front in the taxes and fees portion of the total bill which is then added to the cruise fare. The cruise lines don't pay commissions on the taxes and fee portion and can pass along any changes to that sum even after final payment.

You may consider having a gaggle of ships (Voyager, Freedom, Oasis) that are too tall for one of the bridges an economic reason because of the cost to reconfigure any of them to fit under the problem bridge. At least they did not carry on the same too tall characteristics with the Quantum class.

While no doubt there are some economic reasons, but using the governmental crossing fee as one of them is a bit of a red herring. All the cruise lines set the price for the cruise apart from what they will have to pay for the tolls and associated fees for the transit. The tolls and fees are paid by the cruiser up front in the taxes and fees portion of the total bill which is then added to the cruise fare. The cruise lines don't pay commissions on the taxes and fee portion and can pass along any changes to that sum even after final payment.

 

You may consider having a gaggle of ships (Voyager, Freedom, Oasis) that are too tall for one of the bridges an economic reason because of the cost to reconfigure any of them to fit under the problem bridge. At least they did not carry on the same too tall characteristics with the Quantum class.

Part of the reason that must be considered is the length of the cruise in days, for a Panama Canal sailing and generally they are one way, FL to CA, or CA to FL, these are like 14-17 day cruises. Most working people have a tough time getting off for these long length cruises, a 11 or 12 day cruise is a stretch for us. We are looking into Celebrity, as they do a Panama half way cruise and turn around and come back to port of departure.

Part of the reason that must be considered is the length of the cruise in days, for a Panama Canal sailing and generally they are one way, FL to CA, or CA to FL, these are like 14-17 day cruises. Most working people have a tough time getting off for these long length cruises, a 11 or 12 day cruise is a stretch for us. We are looking into Celebrity, as they do a Panama half way cruise and turn around and come back to port of departure.

Both Princess and Norwegian offer 10 day roundtrip from Florida...so not sure that holds water (pun intended). ;)

Thank you for taking the time to share the information you received. Enjoy your cruise.

 

Specific to a couple of points....

 

1. RCL will not sail through the Panama Canal in the near future. Cited economic reasons, i.e. $250K governmental crossing fee.

Interesting...other cruise lines already service this, and with the larger new canal available...this would seem to be an attractive market that they could leverage existing ports. Furthermore, other cruise lines pass on the fee within their rates.

 

7. No plans to reintroduce itineraries from CA. Cited low demand.

We don't live there or have any vested interest ourselves, but from many friends of ours on the West coast...they report a solid cruise business for Carnival and others serving those ports. With all the folks in California...find the remark "low demand" puzzling, especially with the opportunity to perhaps introduce a differentiator ship like a Quantum class perhaps.

.

1. Their primary market is in their namesake, the Caribbean. This is their cash cow. The company is obviously doing quite well. Just trust that their people know what they are doing. ;) In addition, the new expanded canal, as covered in other posts, does NOTHING for Royal. It is a modest upgrade that will not allow even one larger class of ship than they can already run through there.

7. Again, I trust the bean counters at a company as large as Royal know what they are doing. If you look at studies that show the travel market for various regions of North America you will see that those in the west coast states spend the majority of their travel dollars in Asia on land based travel vs cruising of any type.

They have tried both itineraries in the past and obviously made an educated decision to discontinue them.

1. Their primary market is in their namesake, the Caribbean. This is their cash cow. The company is obviously doing quite well. Just trust that their people know what they are doing. ;) In addition, the new expanded canal, as covered in other posts, does NOTHING for Royal. It is a modest upgrade that will not allow even one larger class of ship than they can already run through there.

Actually...a larger size ship (than previously) can now navigate through the larger locks. Second, the location is within the Caribbean area. Third, offering a new route with new ports would seem attractive to a cruise line that already has plenty of duplication on those fronts.

7. Again, I trust the bean counters at a company as large as Royal know what they are doing. If you look at studies that show the travel market for various regions of North America you will see that those in the west coast states spend the majority of their travel dollars in Asia on land based travel vs cruising of any type.

 

They have tried both itineraries in the past and obviously made an educated decision to discontinue them.

With 40 Million people in California alone, and another 10 Million within driving distance to the larger ports...there's plenty of opportunity.

The problem with California is not the number of people, but rather the number of potential cruises. For a seven day Mexican Riviera cruise, the choices are:

1) PV, Mazatlan, Cabo

2) Mazatlan, PV, Cabo

3) Cabo, Mazatlan, PV

4) Ensenada, Cabo, PV

5) PV, Cabo, Ensenada

I've been to Ensenada, Cabo, and PV at least five times each. I've been to Mazatlan twice. I have truly "been there, done that". And the bad press that the Pacific Coast of Mexico is getting is not helping things any.

Two week cruises to Hawaii and back are possible.

Repo to Alaska or Panama Canal are possible.

Month long cruises to the South Pacific are possible.

There is one other good choice which Princess is doing, and that is a California Costal with a PVSA stop in Ensenada. The only problem with this is, how many Californians want to cruise to - - - - - wait for it - - - - - California. Most can truly say, "I've been there". Though I must admit, I really did enjoy my California Coastal and would be willing to do another.

Caribbean cruises out of Florida simply have more options (unless you are on an Oasis class ship).

The problem with California is not the number of people, but rather the number of potential cruises. For a seven day Mexican Riviera cruise, the choices are:

 

1) PV, Mazatlan, Cabo

2) Mazatlan, PV, Cabo

3) Cabo, Mazatlan, PV

4) Ensenada, Cabo, PV

5) PV, Cabo, Ensenada

 

I've been to Ensenada, Cabo, and PV at least five times each. I've been to Mazatlan twice. I have truly "been there, done that". And the bad press that the Pacific Coast of Mexico is getting is not helping things any.

 

Two week cruises to Hawaii and back are possible.

 

Repo to Alaska or Panama Canal are possible.

 

Month long cruises to the South Pacific are possible.

 

There is one other good choice which Princess is doing, and that is a California Costal with a PVSA stop in Ensenada. The only problem with this is, how many Californians want to cruise to - - - - - wait for it - - - - - California. Most can truly say, "I've been there". Though I must admit, I really did enjoy my California Coastal and would be willing to do another.

 

Caribbean cruises out of Florida simply have more options (unless you are on an Oasis class ship).

Agree that the Mexican destinations are saturated...but how about a company having some creativity or market savvy to offer something different. You posed some ideas...there are others as well.

A 7-day to Vancouver BC is just one example.

Interesting how a company can nearly change their strategy on a dime and re-deploy Quantum ships to China, but can't support the West Coast (and I don't even live anywhere near there, but can easily see that shortcoming).

Somebody also needs to get their maps out (not you) to see that the Panama Canal is in the Caribbean area. One way roundtrip cruises are almost always filled and popular with competitor cruise lines...they don't have to do a full passage through.

Part of the reason that must be considered is the length of the cruise in days, for a Panama Canal sailing and generally they are one way, FL to CA, or CA to FL, these are like 14-17 day cruises. Most working people have a tough time getting off for these long length cruises, a 11 or 12 day cruise is a stretch for us. We are looking into Celebrity, as they do a Panama half way cruise and turn around and come back to port of departure.

Both Princess and Norwegian offer 10 day roundtrip from Florida...so not sure that holds water (pun intended). ;)

I don't believe those 10 days are all the way through the canal and I think Troykahack was referring full passage cruises. We did a 10 day round trip on Brilliance but it only went through the first locks and then back through again.

Both Princess and Norwegian offer 10 day roundtrip from Florida...so not sure that holds water (pun intended). ;)

My point exactly, it is not a full trip through the Canal, only 1/2 day in, not the same thing as going through the Panama Canal. And the Celebrity is a turn around cruise too.... it takes too long to go through the Canal ...

My point exactly, it is not a full trip through the Canal, only 1/2 day in, not the same thing as going through the Panama Canal. And the Celebrity is a turn around cruise too.... it takes too long to go through the Canal ...

Exactly!

The full "through"passages are 14 or 15 day cruises, in contrast to a 10-day turnaround.

4. $200 million terminal investment in Miami will be home to an Oasis class ship.

 

.

Opening 2018 if I remember right, about the time Oasis IV is ready? That will help make 2017 interesting. Maybe I'll book a cruise in the 2nd month that terminal is open :)

It takes at least 30 hours to navigate the canal, and delays are common, so figure in at least two full days to navigate the canal in its entirety.

Trips though the entire canal are more attractive to the clientele of HAL as they are all generally retired. Cruises 15-18 days are not attractive for Royal, if you did a B2B for Canal, it would be a month... show me a working couple who could get off a month?

It takes at least 30 hours to navigate the canal, and delays are common, so figure in at least two full days to navigate the canal in its entirety.

 

Trips though the entire canal are more attractive to the clientele of HAL as they are all generally retired. Cruises 15-18 days are not attractive for Royal, if you did a B2B for Canal, it would be a month... show me a working couple who could get off a month?

There are Panama Canal cruises every week that go in, turnaround in Lake Gallum, and go back out - a 1/2 day event. They are part of a 10-day roundtrip itinerary...and they are both popular and usual filled to capacity. Until this time, the ship sizes have been limited based on the width/length of the canal sections...the new canal sections support longer and wider ships...make it possible for more passengers to enjoy this cruise choice.

Looks like RCI is missing the boat on this (pun very much intended). :D

The problem with California is not the number of people, but rather the number of potential cruises. For a seven day Mexican Riviera cruise, the choices are:

 

1) PV, Mazatlan, Cabo

2) Mazatlan, PV, Cabo

3) Cabo, Mazatlan, PV

4) Ensenada, Cabo, PV

5) PV, Cabo, Ensenada

 

I've been to Ensenada, Cabo, and PV at least five times each. I've been to Mazatlan twice. I have truly "been there, done that". And the bad press that the Pacific Coast of Mexico is getting is not helping things any.

 

Two week cruises to Hawaii and back are possible.

 

Repo to Alaska or Panama Canal are possible.

 

Month long cruises to the South Pacific are possible.

 

There is one other good choice which Princess is doing, and that is a California Costal with a PVSA stop in Ensenada. The only problem with this is, how many Californians want to cruise to - - - - - wait for it - - - - - California. Most can truly say, "I've been there". Though I must admit, I really did enjoy my California Coastal and would be willing to do another.

 

Caribbean cruises out of Florida simply have more options (unless you are on an Oasis class ship).

Request Royal Caribbean to home port a ship in LA before the 2018 schedules are released. ;)

https://www.change.org/p/michael-bayley-request-royal-caribbean-to-home-port-a-ship-in-la-before-the-2018-schedules-are-released

It takes at least 30 hours to navigate the canal, and delays are common, so figure in at least two full days to navigate the canal in its entirety.

Have done a complete transit and I guaranty it was not 30 hours.

From the Panama Canal website.

The length of the Panama Canal is 80 kilometers (50 miles) from the deep waters of the Atlantic to the deep waters of the Pacific. How long does it take for a complete transit? A ship takes an average of 8 to 10 hours to transit the Panama Canal.

https://www.pancanal.com/eng/general/canal-faqs/physical.html

Actually...a larger size ship (than previously) can now navigate through the larger locks. Second, the location is within the Caribbean area. Third, offering a new route with new ports would seem attractive to a cruise line that already has plenty of duplication on those fronts.

Things change, but companies are often slow to respond. The cruise market 10-20 years ago is quite different than today. Also, the China market's sudden avalanche of ships going there actually could result in a saturation beyond original market forecasts. With 40 Million people in California alone, and another 10 Million within driving distance to the larger ports...there's plenty of opportunity.

Do tell which Royal ship will now be able to cruise through those locks that could not before. If doing an all the way through cruise you still have bridge clearance to worry about.

Yes, the market changes, fortunately for us shareholders royal has professionals who are consumed with doing nothing but monitoring and reacting to those markets. The level of expertise and operation is so far beyond what the average cruiser can wrap their head around it always cracks me up to see this sort of armchair "Board of Directoring".

I can't believe that no one asked the Diamond-Diamond + lounge question that has been such a hot topic on these boards!

Do tell which Royal ship will now be able to cruise through those locks that could not before.

Both Voyager and Freedom Class ships will be able to fit into the new locks, and therefore a partial transit can happen with these two larger classes of ships. Oasis and Quantum cannot (Quantum because of the supposed beam measurements at the lifeboat levels are too wide to fit, even thought the beam at waterline is fine).

HOWEVER....

Voyager, Freedom, Oasis, and Quantum cannot fit under the Bridge of Americas, and therefore cannot do a full transit.

Agree that the Mexican destinations are saturated...but how about a company having some creativity or market savvy to offer something different. You posed some ideas...there are others as well.

 

A 7-day to Vancouver BC is just one example.

Yep, swine flu summer 2009 Mariner was redeployed from LA up to Seattle and Victoria for 7 day cruises (rather than her normal Cabo/Mazatlan/PV route).

IMHO, ideally a San Fran home port with Seattle, an overnight docked in Vancouver, and Victoria would be a gorgeous cruise (the overnight in Vancouver would be utterly amazing for those wanting a long excursion to Whistler, and night-time in Vancouver is stunning and safe). Problem here is Voyager Class and larger cannot fit under the Lion's Gate Bridge in Vancouver, and Radiance already set-in-stone for the Hawaii itinerary to get her to Australia on time for a long winter season there.

RCL should've tried this when both Jewel and Radiance were doing Alaska a couple of years ago. I think it would've been a hit. Nonetheless, the three Jewel California Coastals (with Ensenada) were sold right out and very quickly as I was looking at them hard later in the year for maybe last minute/post final payment deals and there were none to be had at all.

There are Panama Canal cruises every week that go in, turnaround in Lake Gallum, and go back out - a 1/2 day event. They are part of a 10-day roundtrip itinerary...and they are both popular and usual filled to capacity. Until this time, the ship sizes have been limited based on the width/length of the canal sections...the new canal sections support longer and wider ships...make it possible for more passengers to enjoy this cruise choice.

 

Looks like RCI is missing the boat on this (pun very much intended). :D

You are absolutely correct, that is a turnaround cruise, not a cruise of the Panama Canal.

Have done a complete transit and I guaranty it was not 30 hours.

 

From the Panama Canal website.

 

The length of the Panama Canal is 80 kilometers (50 miles) from the deep waters of the Atlantic to the deep waters of the Pacific. How long does it take for a complete transit? A ship takes an average of 8 to 10 hours to transit the Panama Canal.

 

https://www.pancanal.com/eng/general/canal-faqs/physical.html

I am not going to debate you, if YOU have actually done it, and it applies to ALL cruise ships, I will not say anything further, but from my info, it said it took up to 30-48 hours. My info could be wrong. What ship, cruise line, and dates did you make this cruise? All cruises I can find from US take at least 12-18 days to get to a CA port, one way. Who do you find cruises through the Panama Canal and then returns to port in shorter time?

Yep, swine flu summer 2009 Mariner was redeployed from LA up to Seattle and Victoria for 7 day cruises (rather than her normal Cabo/Mazatlan/PV route).

 

IMHO, ideally a San Fran home port with Seattle, an overnight docked in Vancouver, and Victoria would be a gorgeous cruise (the overnight in Vancouver would be utterly amazing for those wanting a long excursion to Whistler, and night-time in Vancouver is stunning and safe). Problem here is Voyager Class and larger cannot fit under the Lion's Gate Bridge in Vancouver, and Radiance already set-in-stone for the Hawaii itinerary to get her to Australia on time for a long winter season there.

 

RCL should've tried this when both Jewel and Radiance were doing Alaska a couple of years ago. I think it would've been a hit. Nonetheless, the three Jewel California Coastals (with Ensenada) were sold right out and very quickly as I was looking at them hard later in the year for maybe last minute/post final payment deals and there were none to be had at all.

Love your suggestions. We're left coasters who enjoyed Jewel's California Coastal itineraries last year. They were very popular and well supported. To me it's insulting to those who are Loyal to Royal to say that West Coast itineraries are "low demand".