Arcadia Refurbishment Mystery

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#1
England
906 Posts
Joined Aug 2014
I believe that Arcadia is due a refurbishment imminently. The P&O website says October 2017 but I believe that it’s November. I have seen no information on this whatsoever, which leads me to suspect that it may be nothing more than new fabrics and furnishings (I believe that only 2 weeks is being allowed for the project). I even enquired during a ship visit to Arcadia a few weeks ago but nobody knew anything. All seems a great mystery. Has anyone heard anything?
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P&O Cruises Experience – 143 nights over 13 cruises (Aurora x 3, Azura, Britannia x 3, Oceana x 2, Oriana x 2, Ventura x 2)
P&O Cruises to Come - 74 nights over 5 cruises (2018 - Aurora, Arcadia, Aurora, 2019 - Aurora x 2)

674(A) Oriana 14/5/96. Southampton to Istanbul (Fly back). 8 nights. Outside Cabin.
E620 Oceana 11/8/06. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
E720 Oceana 12/8/07. Canaries. 13 nights. Outside Cabin.
X912 Oriana 24/7/09. Baltic. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
A118 Azura 5/8/11. Eastern Mediterranean. 16 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
N321 Ventura 18/8/13. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
B517 Britannia 15/8/15. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
B622 Britannia 23/7/16. Norwegian Fjords. 7 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
N703 Ventura 15/2/17. Amsterdam & Bruges. 4 nights. Penthouse Suite.
R705 Aurora 13/5/17. Baltic. 16 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
B721 Britannia 22/7/17. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Aft Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.

R718 Aurora 20/10/17. Zeebrugge (although didn’t dock due to storm). 2 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin. Back to Back with;
R719 Aurora 22/10/17. Spain & France. 7 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
#2
1,014 Posts
Joined Jan 2015
You are correct in saying that Arcadia is in for a refit during the first two weeks of November. Can't see it being much more than a spring clean in that space of time, and certainly the deck plans for 2018/19 show no new restaurants or additional facilities.

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#3
Cornwall, UK
2,108 Posts
Joined Feb 2007
It's amazing what they can do in two weeks by throwing everything at it 24 hours a day !!
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Oriana Christmas in the Canaries 21 Dec 2017
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Marella Discovery 2 Aegean & Adriatic 28 Sep 2018
#4
8 Posts
Joined Aug 2011
Please be aware that the ships do not go in just for a refit - by maritime laws and regs they have to undergo a dry dock period every 5 years (where the hull can be inspected fully).
This is the opportunity the company takes to utilise the downtime in undertaking cosmetic internal changes to the ship...
#5
West Yorkshire UK
3,218 Posts
Joined Jul 2004
Originally posted by Baolua
Please be aware that the ships do not go in just for a refit - by maritime laws and regs they have to undergo a dry dock period every 5 years (where the hull can be inspected fully).
This is the opportunity the company takes to utilise the downtime in undertaking cosmetic internal changes to the ship...
.....or not as the case may be!!!!!
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Future cruises --- Feb 2018 Ventura - Caribbean & USA., June 2018 Ventura - W. Med. Sept 2018 Azura - Canaries. Jan 2019 Ventura - Caribbean. April 2019 Aurora W Med.
Previous Cruises
March 92 - Carnival's Carnivale - Bahamas . October 97 - Thomson's Emerald, Med. Nov 2000 - Superstar Gemini, Straits of Malacca. Jan 2004 - Coral Princess - Panama-Carib. June 2005 - Island Princess - Alaska. Jan 2006 - P&O Arcadia - East/southern Carib. Feb 2007 - Celebrity Millenium - Eastern Carib. June 2007 - Tahitian Princess - Honolulu to Papeete. Feb 2008 - Sapphire Princess - Sydney to Auckland. Sept 2008 Emerald Princess - Mediterranean. March 2009 - Coral Princess - Panama Canal. Feb 2010 Celebrity Solstice - Eastern Caribbean . Aug 2011 P&O Azura- Canaries. June 2012 P&O Ventura Iceland & Fjords. Sept 2012 Celebrity Eclipse - Western Med; Apr 2013 P&O Azura Western Med. June 2013 Celebrity Eclipse - Baltic. Oct 2013 P&O Azura - Central Med. May 2014 Emerald Princess N. Spain & France. Sept. 2014 Celebrity Eclipse-Canaries & Azores, Apr 2015 P&O Britannia - W Med. June 2015 Celebrity Eclipse - Iceland & Fjords. Sept 2015 Celebrity Eclipse - Canaries & Azores. Jan 2016 P&O Ventura - No Fly Caribbean. Jun 2016 Eclipse - Baltic. Aug 2016 - Britannia Fjords, May 2017 - Azura W. Med. Sept 2017 - Navigator OTS Canaries & N Africa.



#6
Wales
159 Posts
Joined Nov 2011
Not sure how Arcadia looks these days but Aurora cabins certainly need an update. When we were on her on the World Cruise, our cabin was very tired. The carpet was very worn and stained. There's only so much a poor cabin steward can do to make them look respectable.
#7
Grand Canyon Concourse
286 Posts
Joined Dec 2013
Well its a mystery no more. Here's the official release..
We’ve listened to guest feedback and are investing in a range of updates to the Suites, public areas, bars (such as the Piano Bar and Spinnaker Bar), and main restaurants including The Belvedere food court. We’ve entrusted this work to RPW Design, one of the world’s leading hospitality interior design practices that specialises in the creation of stunningly sophisticated interiors. We are sure that guests will be delighted with the new design concepts and improvements to levels of luxury and comfort. Expect new carpets and furniture, soft furnishing refreshes, fixture and fitting upgrades and elegant new colour schemes, among other highlights.
http://www.pocruises.com/explore/art...efit-in-focus/

In short:
Aquarius pool and bar
"Look out for updated chairs, bar stools, sofas, coffee tables, signage, wall tiles and more."

Atrium/Reception
"Following your feedback, we’re updating Arcadia’s Reception and three-deck-high Atrium to give it the true ‘wow factor’ it deserves. We’ll be making changes to a number of items including the carpets, chairs, banquettes and cushions."

Oasis Spa
"...will be further enhanced with new carpets and blinds in the reception area. Loungers and armchairs will be refreshed to enhance the soothing atmosphere and new cushions will add the finishing touches."

Intermezzo
"...new colour scheme referencing the Mediterranean. This will be visible in updated carpets, blinds, chairs, sofas, bar stools, coffee tables, lampshades and more. Look out, too, for subtle nods to nautical details in the lighting and ironmongery."

Suites
"New furniture – including sofa beds, armchairs and coffee tables – will create a comfortable ambience, with the help of new decorative items such as curtains, bed cushions, throws and lamps."


The only two that stand out there for me are the changes to the Atrium and Intermezzo. The rest is par for the course of a light refresh.
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#9
England
906 Posts
Joined Aug 2014
Originally posted by Monorail Orange
Well its a mystery no more. Here's the official release..
http://www.pocruises.com/explore/art...efit-in-focus/

In short:
Aquarius pool and bar
"Look out for updated chairs, bar stools, sofas, coffee tables, signage, wall tiles and more."

Atrium/Reception
"Following your feedback, we’re updating Arcadia’s Reception and three-deck-high Atrium to give it the true ‘wow factor’ it deserves. We’ll be making changes to a number of items including the carpets, chairs, banquettes and cushions."

Oasis Spa
"...will be further enhanced with new carpets and blinds in the reception area. Loungers and armchairs will be refreshed to enhance the soothing atmosphere and new cushions will add the finishing touches."

Intermezzo
"...new colour scheme referencing the Mediterranean. This will be visible in updated carpets, blinds, chairs, sofas, bar stools, coffee tables, lampshades and more. Look out, too, for subtle nods to nautical details in the lighting and ironmongery."

Suites
"New furniture – including sofa beds, armchairs and coffee tables – will create a comfortable ambience, with the help of new decorative items such as curtains, bed cushions, throws and lamps."


The only two that stand out there for me are the changes to the Atrium and Intermezzo. The rest is par for the course of a light refresh.
Many thanks for posting this. All seems quite low key, as had been expected given the short time window. Pleased to hear that they are refreshing the suites as we have one booked for next July
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P&O Cruises Experience – 143 nights over 13 cruises (Aurora x 3, Azura, Britannia x 3, Oceana x 2, Oriana x 2, Ventura x 2)
P&O Cruises to Come - 74 nights over 5 cruises (2018 - Aurora, Arcadia, Aurora, 2019 - Aurora x 2)

674(A) Oriana 14/5/96. Southampton to Istanbul (Fly back). 8 nights. Outside Cabin.
E620 Oceana 11/8/06. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
E720 Oceana 12/8/07. Canaries. 13 nights. Outside Cabin.
X912 Oriana 24/7/09. Baltic. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
A118 Azura 5/8/11. Eastern Mediterranean. 16 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
N321 Ventura 18/8/13. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
B517 Britannia 15/8/15. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
B622 Britannia 23/7/16. Norwegian Fjords. 7 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
N703 Ventura 15/2/17. Amsterdam & Bruges. 4 nights. Penthouse Suite.
R705 Aurora 13/5/17. Baltic. 16 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
B721 Britannia 22/7/17. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Aft Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.

R718 Aurora 20/10/17. Zeebrugge (although didn’t dock due to storm). 2 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin. Back to Back with;
R719 Aurora 22/10/17. Spain & France. 7 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
#10
England
906 Posts
Joined Aug 2014
Originally posted by wowzz
At least the rumour that there was going to be a Glass House can now be quashed once and for all.

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... which is a great shame, as we love the Glass House concept and shall miss it when we are on Arcadia.
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P&O Cruises Experience – 143 nights over 13 cruises (Aurora x 3, Azura, Britannia x 3, Oceana x 2, Oriana x 2, Ventura x 2)
P&O Cruises to Come - 74 nights over 5 cruises (2018 - Aurora, Arcadia, Aurora, 2019 - Aurora x 2)

674(A) Oriana 14/5/96. Southampton to Istanbul (Fly back). 8 nights. Outside Cabin.
E620 Oceana 11/8/06. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
E720 Oceana 12/8/07. Canaries. 13 nights. Outside Cabin.
X912 Oriana 24/7/09. Baltic. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
A118 Azura 5/8/11. Eastern Mediterranean. 16 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
N321 Ventura 18/8/13. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
B517 Britannia 15/8/15. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
B622 Britannia 23/7/16. Norwegian Fjords. 7 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
N703 Ventura 15/2/17. Amsterdam & Bruges. 4 nights. Penthouse Suite.
R705 Aurora 13/5/17. Baltic. 16 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
B721 Britannia 22/7/17. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Aft Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.

R718 Aurora 20/10/17. Zeebrugge (although didn’t dock due to storm). 2 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin. Back to Back with;
R719 Aurora 22/10/17. Spain & France. 7 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
#11
UK
1,411 Posts
Joined Jan 2013
I had that email from P&O this morning, I came in here to post it but the site was down!
Strange they just mention that suites will be refreshed and not other cabins??


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#12
Grand Canyon Concourse
286 Posts
Joined Dec 2013
Originally posted by wowzz
At least the rumour that there was going to be a Glass House can now be quashed once and for all.
Indeed. Although I doubt it'll completely go. No doubt it'll be back for the next refurb.
Originally posted by P&O SUE
I had that email from P&O this morning, I came in here to post it but the site was down!
Strange they just mention that suites will be refreshed and not other cabins??
I thought that odd too.

Surely it's best to have all cabins in the same style. Granted most of us won't experience the difference between the two, but it just seems unusual to have old and new running at the same time.

Unless they think its implied that it's all the cabins, and they just want to promote the extra work they're doing to the suites.
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#13
England
906 Posts
Joined Aug 2014
I also struggle to believe that they will have two different colour schemes. The blurb about suites mentions furniture that other cabins don’t all have anyway, so I suspect that the new furnishings, colours etc will be in all cabins.
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P&O Cruises Experience – 143 nights over 13 cruises (Aurora x 3, Azura, Britannia x 3, Oceana x 2, Oriana x 2, Ventura x 2)
P&O Cruises to Come - 74 nights over 5 cruises (2018 - Aurora, Arcadia, Aurora, 2019 - Aurora x 2)

674(A) Oriana 14/5/96. Southampton to Istanbul (Fly back). 8 nights. Outside Cabin.
E620 Oceana 11/8/06. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
E720 Oceana 12/8/07. Canaries. 13 nights. Outside Cabin.
X912 Oriana 24/7/09. Baltic. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
A118 Azura 5/8/11. Eastern Mediterranean. 16 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
N321 Ventura 18/8/13. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
B517 Britannia 15/8/15. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
B622 Britannia 23/7/16. Norwegian Fjords. 7 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
N703 Ventura 15/2/17. Amsterdam & Bruges. 4 nights. Penthouse Suite.
R705 Aurora 13/5/17. Baltic. 16 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
B721 Britannia 22/7/17. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Aft Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.

R718 Aurora 20/10/17. Zeebrugge (although didn’t dock due to storm). 2 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin. Back to Back with;
R719 Aurora 22/10/17. Spain & France. 7 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
#16
England
906 Posts
Joined Aug 2014
Originally posted by Monorail Orange
^Well that's good. As fine as they are, I think the standard cabin accent of teal and peach is looking tired now.
Yes, the peach and pink hues of the bathrooms on some of the ships were already completely out of fashion when the ships were built. Can’t see them ripping out and replacing all the bathrooms in 2 weeks though. I guess that they would have time to do the suite bathrooms but, as already discussed, it would seem odd to do some categories of cabins but not others.
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P&O Cruises Experience – 143 nights over 13 cruises (Aurora x 3, Azura, Britannia x 3, Oceana x 2, Oriana x 2, Ventura x 2)
P&O Cruises to Come - 74 nights over 5 cruises (2018 - Aurora, Arcadia, Aurora, 2019 - Aurora x 2)

674(A) Oriana 14/5/96. Southampton to Istanbul (Fly back). 8 nights. Outside Cabin.
E620 Oceana 11/8/06. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
E720 Oceana 12/8/07. Canaries. 13 nights. Outside Cabin.
X912 Oriana 24/7/09. Baltic. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
A118 Azura 5/8/11. Eastern Mediterranean. 16 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
N321 Ventura 18/8/13. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
B517 Britannia 15/8/15. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
B622 Britannia 23/7/16. Norwegian Fjords. 7 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
N703 Ventura 15/2/17. Amsterdam & Bruges. 4 nights. Penthouse Suite.
R705 Aurora 13/5/17. Baltic. 16 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
B721 Britannia 22/7/17. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Aft Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.

R718 Aurora 20/10/17. Zeebrugge (although didn’t dock due to storm). 2 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin. Back to Back with;
R719 Aurora 22/10/17. Spain & France. 7 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
#17
urmston uk
1 Posts
Joined Nov 2013
Originally posted by Cristaltips
Not sure how Arcadia looks these days but Aurora cabins certainly need an update. When we were on her on the World Cruise, our cabin was very tired. The carpet was very worn and stained. There's only so much a poor cabin steward can do to make them look respectable.
Just back from cruising the Caribbean on the good ship Arcadia, and yes she has gone in for a spruce up in Germany, they planned to start as soon as they got rid of us on Tuesday morning, and I feel that if the captain could have got his way that they would have made a start whilst we were still aboard. Arcadia in certain areas around the ship is indeed looking a tad worse for wear and some of the bathrooms , well they will certainly benefit from a little care and attention.
#18
Portland, OR
2,518 Posts
Joined May 2011
Originally posted by Monorail Orange
I wonder what they are actually going to do to the Atrium. New carpets and chairs will hardly give it a 'wow' factor.
Maybe they will rip out the wall that encloses Ocean Grill on F Deck? On Holland America's Vista-class ships, that wall does not exist so that we can see into the restaurant and the windows beyond. On Arcadia, it's a plain beige wall that contributes nothing to the supposed grandeur of the atrium. To my mind, removal of that wall would be the simplest, yet most dramatic change that could be made to Arcadia.
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John aka "Cruiser Bruiser"
178 Days Sailed; 50 Days Booked | 6*HAL; 15*Norwegian; 2*P&O; 3*Princess

20?? - Qld Australia on ?? Princess | 2019/4 - E Carib on Nieuw Statendam | 2019/2 - S Carib on NCL Dawn | 2018/11 - E Carib on NCL Bliss | 2018/9 - Grand Med on P&O Ventura | 2018/2 - Brazil on Zaandam | 2017/12 - E Carib on Eurodam | 2017/6 - Baltic on P&O Arcadia | 2017/5 - Pac Coast on Amsterdam | 2017/4 - Mex Riviera on NCL Jewel | 2016/12 - North Sea on P&O Aurora | 2016/10 - W Med on NCL Star | 2016/9 - W Carib on NCL Getaway | 2016/4 - Pac Coast on Star Princess | 2016/2 - B2B E Carib on Nieuw Amsterdam (HAL; RSVP) | 2015/10 - Iberia on NCL Epic |2015/09 - Pac Coast on NCL Pearl | 2015/9 - Pac Coast on Ruby Princess | 2015/6 - Canada (BOS>MTL) on Maasdam | 2015/2 - Cal Coast on Crown Princess |2014/12 - W Carib on NCL Epic | 2014/9 - Pac Coast on NCL Sun | 2014/3 - W Carib on NCL Pearl | 2013/12 - W Carib on NCL Pearl | 2013/9 - Grand Med (VCE>BCN) on NCL Spirit | 2012/12 - Bahamas on NCL Sky | 2012/10 - Atl Coast (QBC>TPA) on NCL Dawn | 2012/5 - AK on NCL Pearl | 2012/2 - E Carib on Nieuw Amsterdam (RSVP) | 2011/5 - Pac Coast on NCL Pearl | 2010/10 - HI on Pride of America (RSVP) | 2009/8 - AK on Westerdam (RSVP)
#19
England
906 Posts
Joined Aug 2014
Originally posted by Cruiser Bruiser
Maybe they will rip out the wall that encloses Ocean Grill on F Deck? On Holland America's Vista-class ships, that wall does not exist so that we can see into the restaurant and the windows beyond. On Arcadia, it's a plain beige wall that contributes nothing to the supposed grandeur of the atrium. To my mind, removal of that wall would be the simplest, yet most dramatic change that could be made to Arcadia.
We haven't cruised on Arcadia yet, but are doing so next year and are looking forward to the Ocean Grill. If the removal of the wall makes it like Sindhu on Aurora then that would be a shame, as the proximity to the atrium and lack of a solid wall divider makes Sindhu noisy and results in it having a poor ambiance, unlike the versions on Britannia and Ventura which we found to be much better as they are clearly defined and screened from main passenger flow.
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P&O Cruises Experience – 143 nights over 13 cruises (Aurora x 3, Azura, Britannia x 3, Oceana x 2, Oriana x 2, Ventura x 2)
P&O Cruises to Come - 74 nights over 5 cruises (2018 - Aurora, Arcadia, Aurora, 2019 - Aurora x 2)

674(A) Oriana 14/5/96. Southampton to Istanbul (Fly back). 8 nights. Outside Cabin.
E620 Oceana 11/8/06. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
E720 Oceana 12/8/07. Canaries. 13 nights. Outside Cabin.
X912 Oriana 24/7/09. Baltic. 14 nights. Outside Cabin.
A118 Azura 5/8/11. Eastern Mediterranean. 16 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
N321 Ventura 18/8/13. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Superior Deluxe Balcony Cabin.
B517 Britannia 15/8/15. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
B622 Britannia 23/7/16. Norwegian Fjords. 7 nights. Forward Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.
N703 Ventura 15/2/17. Amsterdam & Bruges. 4 nights. Penthouse Suite.
R705 Aurora 13/5/17. Baltic. 16 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
B721 Britannia 22/7/17. Western Mediterranean. 14 nights. Aft Suite + Adjacent Balcony Cabin.

R718 Aurora 20/10/17. Zeebrugge (although didn’t dock due to storm). 2 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin. Back to Back with;
R719 Aurora 22/10/17. Spain & France. 7 nights. Accessible Balcony Cabin.
#20
Portsmouth England
344 Posts
Joined Oct 2007
It makes me laugh that they say "following your feedback..." Who the hell asked for loads more cabins that make the ship look ugly and prove the dining room can't cope with the additional passengers!!!
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Up next....

P&O Oriana - Christmas markets - Dec 17
Independence of the Seas - May 18 - Fjords
Thomson Discovery 2 - Adriatic - Sept 18

Sapphire Princess - Asia - Jan 19


Previously
Rhapsody of the Seas 2006 - Western Caribbean | Navigator of the Sea 2007 - Mini cruise | Serenade of Seas 2008 - Alaska | P&O Oceana 2008 - Weekender | Norwegian Jade 2009 - Mini cruise | P&O Ventura - Oct 2009 - Transatlantic | Independence of the Seas - June 2010 - Mini cruise | P&O Arcadia - July 2010 | Celebrity Eclipse - Oct 2010 - Canaries | Star Flyer - Nov 2010 - Costa Rica | Vision of the Seas- May 2011 - Fjords | Celebrity Equinox - Oct 2011 - Eastern Med | P&O Arcadia - Dec 11 - Mini cruise | Queen Elizabeth - April 12 - Hamburg | Celebrity Millennium - Sept 12 - Wine cruise | P&O Azura - Jan 13 - Amsterdam | Independence of the seas - May 13 - Norway | Celebrity Constellation - Oct 13 - Eastern Med | Queen Mary 2 - December 13 - Christmas markets | Oceania Nautica - June 14 - Rome to Lisbon | Celebrity Equinox - Nov 14 - Caribbean | P&O Aurora - Jan 15 - mini cruise | Oceania Marina - May 15 - Canada / New England | NCL Epic - Sept 15 - Med | P&O Aurora - Dec 15 - Christmas cruise | Ovation of the Seas - April 16 - Netherlands cruise | Harmony of the Seas - May 16 - Maiden cruise | Star Princess - Oct 16 - Pacific Coastal | Queen Elizabeth - Jan 17 - Hamburg | Crown Princess - April 17 - Transatlantic | P&O Arcadia - Guernsey | Celebrity Eclipse - Oct 17 - Canaries