Statement from NCL on drowning on GEM

Come on folks. Don't start this crap again. Unless you know the ENTIRE STORY and have the FACTS, comments like this are totally irresponsible, damning and wrong.

 

The above statement makes it look like the parents are responsible. Maybe, maybe not. Leave them alone unless you KNOW it is there fault.

I agree. lets see the facts before you blame the parents. a 2 year old here was tragically killed by a falling brick sitting next to her grandma...you can blame the grandma for not knowing the brick would fall?

The important question is: Where are the parents? Leave their duties up to a lifeguard? I do agree that there should be life guards, but the parents must assume some responsibility for their own children.

My answer to this is to read this article I pasted below before blaming the parents.

This comes from the Grandparents website.

So what are the warning signs of drowning? Here a comprehensive list from On Scene, the Journal of the U.S. Coast Guard Search and Rescue. Learn the signs, and be vigilant about your grandkids safety every time you're at the pool, beach or lake.

1. It's quiet. Drowning typically does not involve calls for help. The body's primary function is to breathe, and speech comes second. When drowning happens, the body focuses on breathing. Kids are usually loud when near the water. So if it's quiet and kids are around, take note.

2. The mouth bobs at the water's surface. Mouths of drowning people sink below the surface of the water, then alternately reappear. When they are above the water, the person is focused on getting air.

3. There is no waving for help. Nature instinctively forces them to extend their arms laterally and press down on the water’s surface. Pressing down on the surface of the water permits drowning people to leverage their bodies so they can lift their mouths out of the water to breathe.

4. It looks like everything is okay. Drowning is a still activity. People’s bodies remain upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick, so it might appear like everything is alright.

5. It happens very fast. Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds before they go under water.

For more information on steps you can take to prevent drowning, The Red Cross Scientific Advisory Council has developed two useful tools to help save lives, the Circle of Drowning Prevention and the Chain of Drowning Survival.

The difference between a drowning and a near-drowning is direct parent or lifeguard supervision. I have pulled a child from the water twice in my life. Seconds count in every situation.

 

If there is no lifeguard, a parent must actively watch, every second and be ready to jump in. You must also be a killjoy and stop all rough housing.

 

Simple as that, really it is.

Were going on a family cruise in November and we were discussing our plan for keeping our little ones safe. 1. Direct supervision from one of us, so we know when they go underwater, make sure there swimming or playing while under and not just treading water and it goes without saying if there under more than 20 or so seconds, we go get them. We plan on being on the side of the pool or in it not on a lounge chair. In addition, we will be very careful, since there are so many of us that we have a child designated to us, if we need to walk away or decide to get a drink, read a book etc, we pass along our responsibility to another adult. We feel, for our family this should keep us safe. We appreciate all the feedback from lifeguards out there because we have learned through this board that drowning can look like play sometimes so we need to keep that in mind too.

Again, prayers for the family and may this little one rest in peace.

I agree. lets see the facts before you blame the parents. a 2 year old here was tragically killed by a falling brick sitting next to her grandma...you can blame the grandma for not knowing the brick would fall?

I heard that story yesterday (or the day before) - and yes, it's a good comparison. When my kids were little, I was right next to them in the pool, or had my eyes on them. This girl was 10. When my kids were 10, I was always there, but might be having a conversation, reading a magazine, because they were very strong swimmers. A quick check every few minutes, but that was it.

I actually prefer the pools on the larger ship, with no kids in the main pool, because then the little ones aren't in the sea of people. People complain, but it works for me.

Prayers for the family...their lives will never be the same, and the empty place in their hearts will never be filled.

I hate to see the rash of drownings/near drownings on ships, and I think the cruise lines may have to think outside the box to increase safety and help prevent tragedy. I say this as a former lifeguard and retired principal who knows just how quickly something can happen. Things I think should change:

Parents need to understand that a pool on a cruise ship, unless it's a kiddie splash area, is nothing like a pool on land. Cruise ship pools are tiny, deep, and crowded. The water is often cloudy from sunscreen, and there can be quite a bit of water movement because of being on a ship.

Pool capacity needs to be controlled and enforced. I've seen pools that were so crowded all people could do was bob up and down. In situations like that it really takes two adults to watch one small child...one in the pool, and one on the side where they can see the bottom. Lifeguards would help, but they're not a cure-all, nor are they a substitute for vigilant adult supervision.

Cruise lines need to get tough about unsupervised children -- not just around the pool, but all around the ship in general. I don't know what it is, but it does seem like people let their guard down more than they do anyplace else. Maybe because it's a closed environment the assumption is it's safe, but I really worry when I see five and six year olds running around a ship without an adult.

I don't know what the answer is to this, but small pools and lots of alcohol aren't a good combination.:( I don't think a lot of the pools on ships were designed with small children in mind, and with cruising being such a popular family vacation, maybe some pool deck design things need to be rethought.

That's just what comes into my head in thinking about this accident and how heart-broken the family must be. We'll never be able to prevent all accidents, but if there are things that can be changed to improve safety, then I think the cruise lines should look at them.

This horrible tragedy happened on the Gem. Never have seen crew watching over the pools on the Gem, like in this photo.

 

But still, no mater, an awful awful tragedy.

 

Also on ABC news now.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/coast-guard-girl-10-drowns-pool-aboard-cruise-31136593

This picture was taken on the breakaway.....it is a tragedy what happened...and my prayers and condolences go out to the family....as i said this picture was taken on the Breakaway....Last February a little boy drowned in the pool on the Breakaway....since then they put up the separation in the middle of the pool...and crew standing watching the children....

The important question is: Where are the parents? Leave their duties up to a lifeguard? I do agree that there should be life guards, but the parents must assume some responsibility for their own children.

I agree with you 100 percent.....you cannot leave everything up to the lifeguards.....there are loads of children in the pools on ships....many do not follow rules...and do as they please...you as parents, should be with your children if they are not in the children's program....being as you are going on a family vacation...stay as a family...do things together....and if they want to go swimming be with them...watch them....it onlly takes a second of not being there or turning your head or walking away for a tragedy like this to happen...Please parents be extra cautious.... If you want to do something, then put your child or children into the children's program...the kids have a blast...and you wont have to worry what your child is doing, as they are in excellent care.... Planning a Family Cruise Vacation....Parents you have to think of all these different things...and main thing is and i dont care how old your child is....never leave them to wander....that is when trouble happens....

Great post, Cindy! :)

My heart goes out to the family also. There should be age limits on the big pools or requirement for parental supervision.

I don't understand how someone can drown on a ship's pool, with so many people sitting around it. :cool:

absoutely not. There is no way to put total blame on anyone. We have no idea what really happened except accidents happen everyday. If it was a simple as you are saying, there would have been no drowning this time. Many times in the past blame has been put on someone and still these things happen.

There is not enough info on this sad incident. If the parent was there and watching and this tragic accident happened then you can not blame the parent. If the parent was off somewhere, then yes it is the parents fault. Either way a little girl has lost her life and my heart is broken.

I agree. lets see the facts before you blame the parents. a 2 year old here was tragically killed by a falling brick sitting next to her grandma...you can blame the grandma for not knowing the brick would fall?

You are right, we don't know the facts. A falling brick? Where did it fall from? It's amazing how freak things can happen.

I don't understand how someone can drown on a ship's pool' date=' with so many people sitting around it. :cool:[/quote']

 

I don't know the arrangement on the Gem, but on the Breakaway, all the adults were sitting in/around the "adult" pool, while all the kids were over in the "kids" pool.

 

There were no adults sitting around the kids pool watching their kids.

I don't remember specifically the GEM's adult pool's depth, on the Breakaway - it is 5 feet deep on one end (2 ft. on the far side) - which can be way over the mouth/nose and/or head of a 10 year's old, dangerous especially to any non-swimmer at any age - supervised or not.

Some of the land-based hotels used to have deeper & unsupervised swimming pool, no lifeguard on duty & posted warning signs of swim at your own risk, etc. - and, known to cut the depth of the water - it's not uncommon to see the hotel pool at no more than 4.5 ft. depth at the far end, and 2.5 ft. or 2 ft. on the shallow end (which can still cause drowning if it's a small child or someone that lost consciousness & face down in the water, etc. - resulting in respiratory distress ...)

This picture is not the GEM's - rather the Breakaway's emptied pool around midnight showing its depth, the kid's pool is next to it with the partition. It's not easy or simple to watch when it's often so packed & crowded with people of all ages - I called it the bathhouse, standing room only on a nice sea day.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64025118/2015%20NCL%20BA/IMG20150323_2354%20%281024x768%29.jpg

You are right, we don't know the facts. A falling brick? Where did it fall from? It's amazing how freak things can happen.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/05/toddler-dies-after-being-hit-by-falling-bricks.html

I think all cruise lines should have lifeguards. I can't understand why they don't.

Probably because parents would be more inclined than ever to leave them unattended thinking the lifeguard would watch them.

Are there lifeguards on any of the cruise lines ships?

Disney Fantasy has lifeguards (I think all DCL does now). We were on the Fantasy a few weeks back and it made a HUGE difference. Not just watching kids but that they weren't allowing kids to jump into the pools. I still sat on the 'baja shelf' in the pool watching my 9 year old but it was nice knowing someone wasn't about to cannonball onto his head. No replacement for 1:1 supervision but better than nothing.

Really?? Someone just lost their child, and you disgusting people are pointing fingers? It can happen to ANYONE at any time. It was an accident. The appropriate words to describe people like you are, unfortunately, not allowed in this forum.

I so totally agree. People love to assign blame especially when they have NO CLUE what happened. How disgusting.

I am a pool fanatic...I so agree about allowing jumping in.....I fostered and did family daycare for over 40 yrs living close to the ocean and having a pool membership for most of those years....jumping in is a pet peeve....I have been injured several times after a good sized child landed on me.....had to rescue more than one small child who'd been jumped on and pushed down or over to the deep end....the cannon balls and belly flops put all other swimmers at risk....why do parents allow their kids to just jump in anywhere!.....if there is a diving end .....and there are none on any ships I have been on...that is where jumping can occur being carefully supervised....it is a caretaker's nightmare to lose track of a child for even a moment.....my heart goes out to the family of the poor child who passed.....

Disney Fantasy has lifeguards (I think all DCL does now). We were on the Fantasy a few weeks back and it made a HUGE difference. Not just watching kids but that they weren't allowing kids to jump into the pools. I still sat on the 'baja shelf' in the pool watching my 9 year old but it was nice knowing someone wasn't about to cannonball onto his head. No replacement for 1:1 supervision but better than nothing.

The disney lifeguards came about because of a child drowning a few years ago. They didn't have them before that happened. Sometimes it takes a tragedy for change to happen.

I don't understand how someone can drown on a ship's pool' date=' with so many people sitting around it. :cool:[/quote']

 

See post 55 with the film and also post 102. Kids can drown with you nearby unless you learn the signs.

See post 55 with the film and also post 102. Kids can drown with you nearby unless you learn the signs.

Post 55 was my post, and I hate making posts like that, but I do it every time something like this happens.

I'll add that if anyone of any age ever nearly drowns, please be sure to take that person to the hospital even if they don't want to go and seem to be fine. When water gets into the lungs, even if the person coughs it out, it can wash out the surfactant, which is what keeps the alveolar (air sac) walls from collapsing and "sticking" when a person exhales.

If the surfactant is washed out, the person can die from respiratory failure, often in their sleep. If they go to the hospital, they can be placed on positive-pressure ventilation and have artificial surfactant administered, if necessary.

That is very good advice....it does not take much water for this to happen to a child....have seen it on television and was shocked at how easily it can happen...

See post 55 with the film and also post 102. Kids can drown with you nearby unless you learn the signs.

As a trained lifeguard, I have saved plenty of children when parents weren't paying much attention to their children's actions.

If you do not know the signs of a distressed person, it never hurts to ask if you're ok.

If a child's lungs fill with a small amount of water, coughing, , they can have "secondary drowning". Happens a lot on pool slides. You have to know the signs to look for otherwise it can be a major health risk.

Secondary drowning usually occurs within hours after incident.

Another thing to watch out for is "Dry Drowning". No water as passed to the lungs, breathing in water through the nose which affects the vocal chords.

I hope medical staff on board cruise ships know the signs to look out for.

Parents should know this too ;)

~~difficulty breathing such as coughing, wheezing, panting and shortness of breath without exertion. Lack of oxygen can also cause unexplained fatigue, unusual behavior, disorientation and slurred speech.

I went to the swimming baths with friends at the age of 10 so my parents were nowhere near that's what lifeguards were for