Pickpockets

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

 

The whole issue just seems odd to me, because as I said I have lived in Barcelona and Madrid for the last 37 years.

 

It seems that in the British and American press (including travel forums) this issue about Barcelona and other European cities has been hyped up in the last couple of years.

 

Here in Madrid, when we talk about going to Barcelona, we just go -- we don't have endless conversations about hiding our money in money belts and fanny packs -- and we also don't hang around Las Ramblas. It seems that for American and British tourists, Barcelona begins and ends at Las Ramblas, but for others of us that neighborhood is not important at all. It is a phenomenon we who live here have never understood. It would be like New York City beginning and ending on 42nd Street.

 

I do not say that the issue of pickpocketing does not exist. I do feel, however, that the British and American press have become overly paranoid with this issue. Just as a matter of statistics, New York City is five times as big as Barcelona as far as population is concerned and receives a far greater number of visitors than Barcelona. Just this fact would mean that New York City has more pickpocketing incidents than Barcelona, although it is notably absent from the list.

 

Also, when I as a European read these American-based surveys, I sometimes perceive a sense of supremacy of the surveys criticizing the rest of the world, while there is plenty to criticize and improve in their own back yard.

 

While it may very well be a fact (at least according to Trip Advisor's method of performing surveys) that Barcelona is the most dangerous city in the world as far as pickpockets are concerned, it is also an indisputable fact that New York City is the most dangerous city in the world as regards the number of people murdered by terrorism in one single incident.

 

I just don't see that fact about New York City being blurted all over the international press just like the Trip Advisor Report has appeared everywhere.

 

Imagine all the harm to tourism and business travel to New York if that type of statistic were publicized in every newspaper around the world. And in the case of New York, the statistic is indeed scientific.

 

I think Trip Advisor, and this is only my own personal opinion, should have been more careful before publicizing this type of survey about the Top Ten Cities for Pickpocketing, especially because they admit that their statistics have no scientific basis.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

Edited September 17, 2010 by CruisinGerman

[Keith1010]

Gunther and Uta, the reality is that most people on Cruise Critic who search this board will be going as tourists and do not live in Barcelona or in Spain. And, we have seen far more pickpocking in Barcelona than many (not all but many) places we have visited. And it doesn't matter to me whether the survey is flawed (I don't really care about the survey) or whether Barcelona is number 1 or 30.

 

The reality is that most cruise passengers will visit Las Rambles and other tourist spots in Barcelona.

 

My wife grew up in New York City. I grew up right outside New York City. This has probably made us more street smart and more aware of our surroundings than someone who might live in a smaller town.

 

We do use added cautions when visiting places such as Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Rio, Naples, Rome, and several other cities. We think that is wise.

 

Keith

[CruisinGerman]

Dear Keith:

 

I have also lived in New York City. And my sister still lives there. She worked in the Twin Towers but didn't go to work that day because her baby was ill that day. I think that says it all.

 

However, I still perceive from the European standpoint that these surveys that rate cities still use the old idea of New York = Base 100 on the curve, when New York in many categories happens to be one of the most dangerous cities in the world.

 

These surveys and the press tend to describe Barcelona as some sort of battleground, and I think most people who have been there know that it is not that way at all.

 

Of course I am all for taking every precaution for your trip to go smoothly and without incident.

 

But sometimes the statistics and the bad press about certain places are just not fair.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[keltic]

Thanks CruisinGerman, I couldn´t have said better. Totally agree. I still remember the first time I visited New York, and all the Spanish travel guides which said: New York is dangerous anytime, anyplace. And don´t get on the Subway at any time. Now I tend to trust the locals instead of statistics, surveys, and all kind from Tripadvisors. I tend not to pay any attention to the External Affairs Departments concerning travelling tips, because they tend to overreact. If I had trusted them, I wouldn´t have travelled to Brazil last April.

 

As in Barcelona, in all parts of the world, one doesn´t need to be hysterical about this issue. Again common sense.

Edited September 17, 2010 by keltic

[Keith1010]

Dear Gunther and Uta, as I mentioned my wife and I truly love Barcelona. We have been enjoyed numerous visits there.

 

I do think this is one of those cities that extra precautions do need to be taken because the reality is that we have seen and heard about more thieves in this city than most cities we have visited.

 

Since 2007, we have taken three full World Cruises where on each voyage we visited close to 50 ports so that represents 150 ports. Unfortunately, there were some ports where we saw first hand and also heard stories from others about several cases of pick pocketing. This included Naples, Buenos Aires, Rio and Barcelona. In fact, on our most recent visit to Barcelona our destination lecturer who during his career covered the world and has visited far more places than most people ever do, and who is very savy foiled someone attempting to pick pocket him while boarding a train in Barcelona.

 

I am not disagreeing about the validity of the poll.

 

What I am saying is that Barcelona indeed one of those cities where there is a pick pocket problem that is greater than most ports of call that one typically will visit around the world and that extra caution should be taken by tourists. I think it is prudent advice and as they say "it is better to play it safe than to be sorry".

 

Keith

[GlendaleCruiser]

This subject has been done to death on other posts.

 

 

The whole reason for this board is for cruisers/travelers to help other cruisers/travelers. If everyone on this board had been on the board for years and heard and read it all there would be no need for its existence. New posters and new cruisers come on all the time. Why would you expect them to know it all already?

 

I think it is reasonable to direct newbies to threads that already have a lot of information, or to direct them to the way to search the threads, but it is unreasonable to expect everyone to know everything.

 

I just don't respond to posters who say, "I'm taking a cruise. What do I need to know?". Someone always nicely directs them to research the threads. But when someone posts a direct question, they may not have been able to find the answer already.

[Andym]

I put up the posting as this subject seems to just go round and round, Its not far down the boards that you will find a very long discussion on Barcelona and Pickpockets. BUT it seems also that the same people post every time it comes up.

These boards are great for asking questions and sharing information and tips and I have recomended this site to tons of people.

[hubofhockey]

I put up the posting as this subject seems to just go round and round, Its not far down the boards that you will find a very long discussion on Barcelona and Pickpockets. BUT it seems also that the same people post every time it comes up.

These boards are great for asking questions and sharing information and tips and I have recomended this site to tons of people.

 

I hope you weren't put out too much by having to read an extra thread meant to keep people on guard in a city with theft problems.

[Keith1010]

I think it is very helpful to warn people on this item.

 

I remember in the early 1990's when I was warned from a business associate about a similar issue in Rome. This person who had traveled widely warned me about the gypsies and one of the items they do such as almost throwing a baby at you so you put both hands up and as you do that someone snatches your wallet. It happened to him. Sure enough when I was there a couple of weeks later, I was on a tour and this happened to someone right by us. I on the other hand was alert to this and much of the advice I received served me well not only for that trip but for our first of many trips to Barcelona starting in the 1990's as well.

 

No one is forced to take any of the advice offered on Cruise Critic but my view is that if the advice helps prevent even one person to avoid a nasty situation where an item is stolen then it was worth the effort of discussing this item.

 

Many items on Cruise Critic are discussed often because many times folks are visiting a particular board for the very first time based on the upcoming itinerary of their cruise.

 

Keith

[CruisinGerman]

I agree with all of Keith's comments about spreading advice to fellow traveller's here on Cruise Critic.

 

I am still also of the opinion that this "advice" is uttered from the standpoint of United States = Utopia and let's criticize everyone else based on that scale.

 

Where are the threads on Cruise Critic warning us how to take precautions against the following in New York City, just to use an example:

 

1. Getting killed in a mass terrorist attack;

2. Getting murdered;

3. Getting raped;

4. Getting mugged;

5. Getting pickpocketed;

6. Falling for the scheme of a con artist;

7. etc.

 

Many, many cruise passengers take cruises from and to New York City. Things happen in your own back yard and not just in Barcelona, Rome, Naples and other far away places.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

Edited September 18, 2010 by CruisinGerman

[Keith1010]

Gunther and Uta,

 

I can only speak for myself and my wife.

 

One of the reasons we do use a great deal of caution when we travel is because my wife grew up in New York City and I grew up relatively close to the city. There are cetainly parts of New York City we will not visit and we also use many of the same safeguards that we use in places such as Barcelona in New York City as well and the same goes for several other cities in the USA.

 

We also remember that when we visit an area that we are not familiar with that is even more reason to take a more cautious approach.

 

All of this has added to what I call being "street smart" as we travel around the world. I have offered advice on threads on this very topic including ports of call within the USA.

 

Keith

Edited September 18, 2010 by Keith1010

[GlendaleCruiser]

Dear friends:

 

The whole issue just seems odd to me, because as I said I have lived in Barcelona and Madrid for the last 37 years.

 

It seems that in the British and American press (including travel forums) this issue about Barcelona and other European cities has been hyped up in the last couple of years.

Perhaps because so many targets are American and they feel people should be warned:confused:

 

Here in Madrid, when we talk about going to Barcelona, we just go -- we don't have endless conversations about hiding our money in money belts and fanny packs --

but you are familiar with it since you go there so often--most people on this board do not. I am familiar with NYC but many travelers are not and I would hope that travel boards would warn them of dangerous areas and precautions.

 

 

I do not say that the issue of pickpocketing does not exist. I do feel, however, that the British and American press have become overly paranoid with this issue. Just as a matter of statistics, New York City is five times as big as Barcelona as far as population is concerned and receives a far greater number of visitors than Barcelona. Just this fact would mean that New York City has more pickpocketing incidents than Barcelona, although it is notably absent from the list.

but it is probably noted on travel boards regarding travel to NYC.

 

Also, when I as a European read these American-based surveys, I sometimes perceive a sense of supremacy of the surveys criticizing the rest of the world, while there is plenty to criticize and improve in their own back yard.

Believe me, we hear that from Europeans often enough. Thanks for blaming Americans for being fearful. As usual, it's OUR fault. After 9/11 and the bombs on Spanish and English trains, I make no excuses.

 

I just don't see that fact about New York City being blurted all over the international press just like the Trip Advisor Report has appeared everywhere.

 

Imagine all the harm to tourism and business travel to New York if that type of statistic were publicized in every newspaper around the world. And in the case of New York, the statistic is indeed scientific.

Doubtful, as NYC has been touted for years as dangerous in certain areas and during certain times of day. Edited September 18, 2010 by GlendaleCruiser

[Got2Cruise]

This is how we learned about the pickpockets in Barcelona.1) A fellow CC cruiser was robbed at their hotel. 2) The guide on the bus from the cruise, a native of Barcelona, warned us. She stated simply that the pick-pockets were professionals and most come from other parts of Europe to "work". 3) We were almost ripped off ourselves, when some nicely dressed young men started us asking us directions when they noticed that we had a backpack on the ground and were looking at a map. (sorry but we got lost in a foreign city). lol There was nothing in that backback except my good pair of eyeglasses, and I would have been mad if they were taken, but our cash was on us. Luckily I came to my senses and said we don't know, picked up the backpack and started walking away just in time. We didn't realize what was happening until it was almost too late. I think the point is, people are on guard in NYC, but there are still many people coming to the board saying, "I wasn't robbed, so Barcelona is perfectly safe, don't take extra percautions". This is flawed reasoning. jmo Enjoy Barcelona, you will love it.

[keltic]

There´s no problem with asking, and probably foreigners are prime targets when they are seen with camaras and absent minded in the middle of Ramblas. I do understand when someone isn´t familiar with other cities in the world is normal feeling suspicious. Pickpockets don´t go for americans, but tourists in general. Fear is human, but please trust the locals, they are in touch with reality at a daily basis.

[Lou33]

This subject has been done to death on other posts.

 

Yes, but what subject has not been beaten to death? Sometimes it's good to get fresh insight about a subject. We read so much about pickpockets that we were so paranoid when we got there, but maybe that was a good thing. But we had no problems, and we didn't see or hear of anyone that had a problem.

 

I carried a security wallet with one credit card, one debit card, and one days worth of Euros. It is the kind that attaches to your belt and goes inside your pants. This one:

 

http://www.magellans.com/store/Safety___Security___Security_Wallets___Money_BeltsSV627?Args=

 

My wife didn't carry a purse, she had nothing. So even if you look like tourists, the pickpockets will leave you alone. They will go after the easy targets, and there are plenty for them to choose from. Believe me, nobody was going to get my money. So since we took precautions, it was a non-issue.

[hubofhockey]

 

Many, many cruise passengers take cruises from and to New York City. Things happen in your own back yard and not just in Barcelona, Rome, Naples and other far away places.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

This is the Spain Med board. If you want to rip security in NYC, please post it there. But NYC has done a great job the past 25 years in keeping the tourist areas relatively crime free. Barcelona really should do something about keeping the professional pickpockets and those ridiculous shell games away from Las Ramblas. If you believe Barcelona's reputation as a haven for these "professionals" is unjustified, you are welcome to yor opinion. We love Barcelona and are going to return But we do take different precautions in Barcelona than we do in NYC. For example, in NYC, we always put our car in a garage and off the streets, but do not use travel and safety wallets. In Barcelona, we take cabs and I carry the travel wallet and my wife carries nothing of real value. It's just different.

[cberge]

This particular topic has been posted many times before over the years, and it always evokes many many many responses and pits some against others again and again and I have never figured out why.If people would just the search function to see what has been posted it would be so much less antagonisitic IMHO.Nothing is going change and people just have to learn that they have to be careful when traveling any place...no one country or city needs to be singled out.Plain and simple...BE CARFUL where you are as it can be painful re money if you are not!!!!

[CruisinGerman]

Here in Spain, we don't even know what those money belts, security travel wallets and fanny packs are.

 

I went to El Corte Inglés department store yesterday, and in the luggage department, I did see one rack of travel gadgets hidden in a corner of the department, with one or two "travel wallets" if that is what you folks mean.

 

But it seems that foreigners wouldn't come to Barcelona without them.

 

All I am saying is that you just need to come here and take sensible precautions that you would take anywhere else. No need to go to any extremes, and you will be fine.

 

Maybe if Disney came here and offered to buy out Las Ramblas on their conditions like they did in Times Square, the mayor of Barcelona would clean up Las Ramblas faster. Anyway, if they cleaned up Las Ramblas the way the other poster is suggesting, it would probably cease as the main tourist interest for Americans.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[Keith1010]

This particular topic has been posted many times before over the years, and it always evokes many many many responses and pits some against others again and again and I have never figured out why.If people would just the search function to see what has been posted it would be so much less antagonisitic IMHO.Nothing is going change and people just have to learn that they have to be careful when traveling any place...no one country or city needs to be singled out.Plain and simple...BE CARFUL where you are as it can be painful re money if you are not!!!!

 

While it's fine for people to do the search function, it is really not necessary. If someone wants to post or ask a question that is fine. Everyday questions are asked that have been asked before. Examples on this boad include new theads on is this flight too early to make (that has been asked over and over), is it too loude to stay at a Hotel on Las Rambles and so forth.

 

All ports of call are not created equually. That includes a variety of items including infrastructure (eg., things to do) and yes it also includes safety.

 

The reality is that when we walk around in Buenos Aires vs. Ushuaia, Argentina, Naples, vs. Portofino, Italy, Rio vs Fortaleza, Brazil, Newark vs Cherry Hill, New Jersey, in the first cities of each example the crime rate is a good deal greater than the second city. While we are careful in all of the cities we have listed the reality is that we have to be even more on our guard in those first cities.

 

In addition even within in a city there are places to either avoid or to be more careful and we see that in many cities around the world as we do in countries that we are familiar with.

 

Each time we travel we learn more and I think that is good to share on Cruie Critic. I also think that the world changes so just as updates are good to provide on a wealth of topics that includes this one.

 

The reality is that many questions do solicit a wide range of answers. That includes what vaccinations do I need, what flight can a make, should a take a private vs. ships tour, which cruise line is beter, where should I stay and so forth. The reality is that on most items people at times give conflicting advice. And some of it gets a bit heated.

 

With that said no one is compelled to give answers or to read threads that they don't care about.

 

But again, many questions have been asked before on all threads but many times including this one updates are in order as the world does change often.

 

Keith

[Keith1010]

Here in Spain, we don't even know what those money belts, security travel wallets and fanny packs are.

 

I went to El Corte Inglés department store yesterday, and in the luggage department, I did see one rack of travel gadgets hidden in a corner of the department, with one or two "travel wallets" if that is what you folks mean.

 

But it seems that foreigners wouldn't come to Barcelona without them.

 

All I am saying is that you just need to come here and take sensible precautions that you would take anywhere else. No need to go to any extremes, and you will be fine.

 

Maybe if Disney came here and offered to buy out Las Ramblas on their conditions like they did in Times Square, the mayor of Barcelona would clean up Las Ramblas faster. Anyway, if they cleaned up Las Ramblas the way the other poster is suggesting, it would probably cease as the main tourist interest for Americans.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Gunther and Uta, the reality is that in many countries (including the USA) foreigners or those visiting the particular city are targets. There is no question about that. And visitors, whether foreign or not, do stand out. As they say, one is better off not walking around with a map when they are traveling in many cities around the world because they do make easier targets as it is usually clear that they are visiting the city (I did not say foreign or not) and that to some extent that the are pre-occupied. It is not that Americans are a target, but rather many times visitors and tourists are targets. And yes, there are certain cities where this is more apt to happen for a variety of reasons, including in some cases the economic situation of the country. When things went sour in the early 2000's in Argentina, crime in places including Buenos Aires went way up and that included crime against foreigners and even local. In terms of the locals, elder age locals became greater targets because of their inabiity to defend themselves.

 

I know you travel extensively and we do too. On our travels around the world we do see security items such as travel wallets all around the world.

And yes, there are some places that are a good deal safer than others for a wide range of reasons from the emphasis that the city places on crime, to the economic situation, to the ease in which the crimes can be committed. And yes, the reality is that in busy/crowded cities, crimes can be easier to commit if there is less emphasis placed on control of it.

 

Keith

[4774Papa]

Dear friends:

 

TripAdvisor and the press that has mentioned this "news item" both admit that their statistics are not scientific, but rather are formed by culling the word "pickpocket" from forums and hotel reviews on the TripAdvisor site.

 

Since Barcelona always receives a great deal of press about pickpocketing in the Las Ramblas area, naturally there are going to be more posts about this topic.

 

Another flaw I find with the "survey" is that most, albeit not all, of the users of TripAdvisor are Americans. Americans tend to post more in forums about foreign travel than about travel to their own American cities. Consequently, American cities (New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Chicago, Detroit, etc.) are surprisingly missing from these statistics, even though we Europeans tend to feel far less safe travelling in American cities than we do in any city in Europe.

 

Because Spain lived through a dictatorship in the mid-twentieth century, we are very sensitive here about issues such as abuse by the police forces and the government, etc. This, for better or for worse, is reflected in the Spanish Penal Code. In Spain, if you don't commit theft repeatedly, or for an amount of money above a certain threshold, or use violence when committing theft, you don't stay in jail like in the United States. Here in Spain, if you have no criminal record, you don't go to prison unless you are sentenced to more than two years. And things like life sentences and the death penalty are unconstitutional here. Of course, this same trend of thought sometimes backfires in our face when a terrorist in his twenties commits mass murder of dozens of people, but then gets released from prison in his forties or fifties. The Spanish (and most European) press were astonished when California enacted its three-strikes law.

 

If you have had a chance to watch the Spanish news, you will find that at the start of the summer, the Barcelona authorities took extra measures to try to prevent pickpocketing in the Las Ramblas area, such as placing plain clothes police personnel, installing cameras, initiating deportation proceeding for those caught pickpocketing who do not hold legal status in Spain, etc.

 

The bright side of all of this is that Barcelona, Madrid, and nearly all of Spain have far less violent crime than in the United States.

 

And because of the late hours we have here in Spain (dinner at 10:30 p.m., discos don't open until 3 am, etc.) Spanish cities are considered quite safe at night because there are as many people in the streets here at night as there are during rush hours.

 

Just take normal precautions and you should be fine.

 

Enjoy your travels.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

 

I lived in Germany for four years and Saudi Arabia for five. I have been to 36 countries, including most in Europe. Also, I have lived in several USA states, and can say that violent crime is more of a problem in the USA, in general, but it is more limited to specific areas that Americans learn not to go.

Petty crime like pickpockets is much worse in the Mediterranean countries than Northern Europe or the USA. Also, in some states in the USA, many persons carry pistols, so petty crime and mugging is much less.

 

Spain is a wonderful country, and I loved my time there years ago. Also, I am visiting Barcelona in conjunction with an NCL cruise in March, and very excited, but I expect to be very concerned about the pickpockets. Pickpockets just do not seem to happen in Germany. I will not let a pickpocket run my vacation, since I will wear a money belt, and be vigilant. I will enjoy all the wonderful Catalonian culture in Barcelona, as well as the great cusine, and historical sites.

Viva Espana. Viva Catalonia.

[Laurelicious]

Between the dark history (Inquisition) and the pickpockets, I think we'll just stay aboard our beautiful, clean, safe ship. We're mostly in it for the sea days anyway.

[campolady]

Between the dark history (Inquisition) and the pickpockets, I think we'll just stay aboard our beautiful, clean, safe ship. We're mostly in it for the sea days anyway.

 

What a waste of a day - Barcelona is an amazing city and you are no more likely to be targeted by pickpockets there than in any major city worldwide as long as you don't leave your common sense on the ship.

 

As for reference to the Inquisition????? This is the 21st century not the 15th.

 

By the way, why resurrect a thread that is nearly 7 years old?

Edited April 16, 2017 by campolady

[wheezedr]

Between the dark history (Inquisition) and the pickpockets, I think we'll just stay aboard our beautiful, clean, safe ship. We're mostly in it for the sea days anyway.

You do realize you have jumped on a thread from 2010. Barcelona is one of the most interesting cities in Europe. Having been there on both a cruise as well as multiple days of land tours l always highly recommend it. If you fear travel in Barcelona, I wish you luck in Rome, Naples and probably Paris as well as current statistics find them equally as risky. If only to see the Sagrada Familia you should get off the ship. I know you may not believe it but I find riding the Metro here, as well as walking the Rambla very unintimadating.

Edited April 16, 2017 by wheezedr
Spelling

[woody14h]

Between the dark history (Inquisition) and the pickpockets, I think we'll just stay aboard our beautiful, clean, safe ship. We're mostly in it for the sea days anyway.

Obviously you have not had a lot of experience in European travel. I have been robbed in Barracas Airport Madrid (my own fault) Accosted by a gypsy woman trying to pickpocket my wallet, I handed her over to a gendarme in Florence, I Have been accosted by a gypsy crew in the Rome Termini station, They had no luck after I kicked one of them, they left. Awareness is the best defense, I love Barcelona, walk the Rambla whenever I can. Pickpockets are everywhere even in your home area. If you have visited any major city, you have the same chance of being targeted as in Barcelona. Fear is a not a good reason avoid a city like Barcelona. Dark History,? What's with that?