Will Celebrity's Captain's Club Levels change Similar to RCL's Crown & Anchor?

[C 2 C]

As Celebrity tries to update everyone's cruise history, is it because they too might be switching to "cruising days" rather than "cruise points" to establish a cruiser's level in Captain's Club.

 

Now:

RCL: Cruise points

Gold:1

Platinum: 5

Diamond: 10

Diamond Plus: 24

 

Celebrity:

It's Easy to Earn Tier Credits**

 

Unlike other cruise loyalty programs, the Captain's Club uses tier credits rather than cruises to determine your benefits. We currently offer up to three ways to earn tier credits on a single cruise. This makes it easier for our members to qualify for higher tiers and receive more exclusive benefits quickly.

Classic: 1-4

Select: 5-9

Elite: 10 plus

 

According to the discussion at:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=27282638#post27282638

 

As of Jan. 12, 2011: Cruise points at RCL changes to Days cruised to determine levels:

Originally Posted by thelion

From everything I have heard (and I don't work there so I may be missing information, it is coming from a former colleague that still works in Loyalty there) it is all positive changes. They specifically said there should be little to nothing to complain about.

 

I don't know about the CL, nothing was mentioned. I would assume it would be for Suites, D+ and Pinnacle and the Diamond Lounge would be for Diamonds.

 

Oh, and my numbers were a bit off on Pinnacle and some others.

 

Gold - starts at 1

Platinum - starts at 30

Emerald - starts at 55

Diamond - starts at 80

Diamond + - starts at 175 (or 170, I cannot remember)

Pinnacle - starts at 700

It is beyond a rumour because someone took a photo at the terminal:

 

Could Celebrity changes be imminent?

How would the reciprocal arrangement between RCL and X affect the determination of level? ie. Elite vs Diamond.

I can not access my X info on the website but does a cruiser's history include weeks or days of cruising on Celebrity ships?

Is there a possibility of two new levels

[cruiseacecat]

Hi Arno,

 

I wonder also what Celebrity is going to do. Here is how history is displayed:

16-Dec-2006 Celebrity Century Concierge Class 5 Night Western Caribbean Cruise 2

It does give the number of nights and, if they are going to keep reciprocity, one would think it will have to change.

We will just have to wait and see.

Best to Joanne.

Anne :)

[Orator]

Hi Arno,

 

I wonder also what Celebrity is going to do. Here is how history is displayed:

16-Dec-2006 Celebrity Century Concierge Class 5 Night Western Caribbean Cruise 2

It does give the number of nights and, if they are going to keep reciprocity, one would think it will have to change.

We will just have to wait and see.

Best to Joanne.

Anne :)

 

Obviously it was 5 nights:) Each entry in my record reads as yours indicating the length of the cruise. Change has been rumored for a very long time and we're still waiting for it. I'm currently over 100 days so a change from "credits" to "days" won't affect me. However some Elites might be short on days to maintain their status, so they might need to "grandfather" current elites into a new program. Like the idea of days and levels beyond the Elite.

[bob278]

Hi Arno.

 

The RCL "Points" are the same as "Credits" and earned exactly the same (Junior Suites and above get an extra credit - the JS cabins are either about the same or larger than Sky Suites and the difference in cost between the top balcony and a JS is a lot less than the difference between the top balcony and a SS, in fact, it is only a little more than a CC cabin in many instances).

 

The new (rumored) levels are apparently geared to make the higher levels a little more difficult to earn. One of the reasons stated for recent changes to eliminate the Diamond members from the Concierge Lounges was crowding and cutting down the growth of the top tiers makes sense from a business perspective. But adding the Emerald level gives people something at close to the same cruising effort as the old Diamond requirements.

 

It will be a huge challenge to make most people happy they will NEVER make everybody happy) but adding some significant benefits to the top 3 levels will go a long way. But I don't know what they can add as the D+ is already very similar to Elite (and better in some ways as Celebrity has no equivalent to the Concierge Lounge).

 

Reciprocity will be difficult unless they add at least one level. It "could look something like this:

 

Celebrity-to-RCL

Select = Gold

Elite = Diamond

Elite Plus = Diamond Plus (if they add E+, otherwise I think D would remain the courtesy level)

 

RCL-to-Celebrity

Gold = Select

Emerald/Diamond = Elite

Diamond Plus = Elite Plus (if there is no E+, then D+ = Elite)

 

What will be a logistical nightmare is reciprocity for someone who has never sailed RCL. Suppose (like a friend of ours) a person is Elite on Celebrity with 25 credits. He was made Diamond on our Jewel TA in September because there is no 4th tier on Celebrity. BUT (and here is the catch) how could he progress to D+ on RCL if he continued to cruise with them? Does he get the minimum number of qualifying days for Diamond and have to sail 95 days to progress? After all, IF X had the 4th tier, he would have converted to D+.

 

The only thing certain about this is that there will be a LOT of screaming about how someone was screwed by whatever is done. :eek:

 

We are among those who earned our levels "honestly" - one cruise at a time on both lines. We have 31 credits on RCL (and 175 days - 244 if suite bonuses are counted) and 28 credits on X (144 days - 217 w/CC-Suite bonuses). Of course we are not in your league as far as how many cruises/days we have, but we keep trying. :D

[Andy]

Hi Arno !

 

You raise excellent questions. This whole days vs cruises sailed, reminds me of the chicken and the egg theory. No matter which method Celebrity chooses, a group of past guests are going to be unhappy. It's not a good position to be in.

 

I feel the most equitable solution, is for a hybrid of either number of Cruises, or total Days sailed, though I suspect this would cost Celebrity more money - as it would be easier to attain levels. While I feel it's the right thing to do, Celebrity may not be excited with this concept.

 

At any rate, if Royal Caribbean / Celebrity plans keep the reciprocal element intact (Azamara seems to be going in their own direction) one would think Captains Club changes are ahead. I'm not aware of any imminent changes, but if Royal is making changes, Celebrity is probably involved.

 

My guess is, 2011 will prove to be very interesting. Happy New Year !

[Lynnees]

It seems to me that RCL has been rather pointedly driving older cruisers towards Azamara and Celebrity over the last couple of years. RCL has become much more family oriented than ever before.

 

I would think if X is going to make any changes it will be much later in the year when they see how much damage the changes on RCL make.

 

Azamara has already announced it will be going it alone as of December 31.

 

I don't know how RCL is going to introduce their changes. I suppose the picture of the sign certainly indicates it's going to happen. How much damage they do to their most loyal cruisers remains to be seen.

[judyfssw]

Wow, 700 days to obtain the Pinnacle. We only have 160 actual days with X. Since we're in our 70's, I just don't see it happening for us. We'll just continue to enjoy our cruises and forget about any type of Pinnacle level.

[Gonzo70]

 

How much damage they do to their most loyal cruisers remains to be seen.

 

Why do you assume loyal customers will be "damaged"? Many loyal customers will likely appreciate new levels they can attain to procure even greater benefits. Also, many people at Diamond on RCI and Elite on X complain that their special events are already too crowded and have expressed a desire to have the higher levels be more difficult to obtain. Certainly some people will be upset, but it may very well be that as many (or more) will be happy (or at least content) with the changes.

[nps001]

ONLY A RUMOR....but I have heard that Celebrity might be moving to points that are associated with actual spend $. That's all I know but I would imagine that the cruise cost (not days or length) combined with onboard spend will define the levels.

[richsea]

Wow, 700 days to obtain the Pinnacle. We only have 160 actual days with X. Since we're in our 70's, I just don't see it happening for us. We'll just continue to enjoy our cruises and forget about any type of Pinnacle level.

 

I feel your pain! It looks like they want to create a loyalty level that is truly hard to reach, perhaps only by guests such as Arno, who cruise often & long. Of course, if the level is so hard to attain, & let's say, there is a separate lounge for only that level, there may be sailings where there's only 2 or 3 couples able to take advantage of it. That certainly would be a lonely lounge!

 

Personally, while I appreciate the new Captain's Club perks, & any new future benifits that Celebrity sees fit to provide at their descretion, I can never see myself sailing a line just for the loyalty perks. I'm going to sail a cruise line that provides me with the atmosphere that I prefer at the price point that I prefer to pay. All of the other stuff which the cruise line provides for brand "loyalty" is a very small factor for me in choosing a cruise.

 

While all the speculation is interesting, after all is said & done, it doesn't mean much to me, but that's just me.

[Orator]

I've had staff tell me that there were going to be assigned to a specific ship only to later discover that they were wrong. I've had Senior Officers tell me that certain changes would take place that never happened. Rumors abound from sources unknown. I generally ignore the rumors until they are confirmed by a press release from the company. If one has specific changes to recommend, write a letter to the company and make your recommendations. Does little good to reinforce rumors on these boards.

[atb]

We booked 2 cruises on Celebrity Century for 2011 and 2012, only to have that disappear from view.

I will continue to book with RCCL, as long as they sail out of Baltimore. And I will miss Celebrity. :o

[itsandreas]

I can see why they would want to do it.

 

Our first cruise was this year and with the cruises planned for next year we'll both be elites! In comparison with other loyalty programs I'm part of, four cruises to reach the top layer seems a very rapid progression.

 

I imagine that elite functions would get very full, very quickly. I also wonder, form a Celebrity perspective, if four cruises can really be seen as loyalty?

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens but I still think the main advantage of the Captain's Club is legitimising my next cruise! :o

[Lynnees]

ONLY A RUMOR....but I have heard that Celebrity might be moving to points that are associated with actual spend $. That's all I know but I would imagine that the cruise cost (not days or length) combined with onboard spend will define the levels.

 

Now that is one rumour I wouldn't believe for a minute. It would be ludicrious to try to do it that way.

[Lynnees]

Why do you assume loyal customers will be "damaged"? Many loyal customers will likely appreciate new levels they can attain to procure even greater benefits. Also, many people at Diamond on RCI and Elite on X complain that their special events are already too crowded and have expressed a desire to have the higher levels be more difficult to obtain. Certainly some people will be upset, but it may very well be that as many (or more) will be happy (or at least content) with the changes.

 

You really are a RCL/Celbrity cheerleader arn't you. Anyway, perhaps I worded it slightly off. The damage will be to the cruiselines not the customers who will no longer feel it necessary to sail with either of the lines as they again take away perks and make it even more difficult to attain them. Pinnacle at 750 isn't even worth discussing. They lost loyal followers with their last changes - they'll lose more this time.

 

As for those who complain, then I would suggest they sit them out and let those who don't complain attend.

[Project_gal]

Now that is one rumour I wouldn't believe for a minute. It would be ludicrious to try to do it that way.

 

Why? Surely actual spend is all that any cruise line is really interested in. Why would they want "loyal" customers who spend next to nothing with them?

 

Sue

[librarylady19]

Why? Surely actual spend is all that any cruise line is really interested in. Why would they want "loyal" customers who spend next to nothing with them?

 

Sue

I agree that rewarding those with more total $ spent is a good business model. It's similar to the idea of casinos rewarding big spenders. After seeing our bar/dining bill on our recent cruise, I like the idea of getting "rewarded" for my indulgence.

[Lynnees]

That would definitely eliminate most insiders and a lot of people who are cruising on a strong buget. Yup - I can definitely see them driving away all those who are in a lower income bracket. I don't think they are that stupid. And I would never believe they would be stupid enough to do it based on $$ spent.

[brfan]

I've had staff tell me that there were going to be assigned to a specific ship only to later discover that they were wrong. I've had Senior Officers tell me that certain changes would take place that never happened. Rumors abound from sources unknown. I generally ignore the rumors until they are confirmed by a press release from the company. If one has specific changes to recommend, write a letter to the company and make your recommendations. Does little good to reinforce rumors on these boards.

 

If this is all a rumour than how do you explain the picture posted above with the "rumoured" levels at a port checkin? Do you think Royal Caribbean made up the sign to just play with Cruise Critic posters or it was photoshopped?

 

It appears that the levels aren't a rumour (assuming you believe that photo), what the unknown is are what the actual number of days are to reach each level and whether or not Royal Caribbean and Celebrity will maintain their reciprical agreement. I guess we'll find out soon enough (assuming the Jan 12th date for the announcement is correct).

 

Of course this could all be a fishing expedition on the part of Royal Caribbean to guage the reaction of posters and then tweek the final product or go back to the drawing board.

[Orator]

My guess,just a guest, is that there will be some changes to the program. Just spoke to a Captain's Club representative who said that he is not free to say anything at this time. If and when there are changes they will be followed by the usual complaints and charges that the change will cost X guests. There will be the usual threats of abandoning ship. The ships are currently sailing at or near capacity. There have been price increases for future sailings.The profit margin has shown steady growth. The stock price is at 52 week highs. My guess is that somebody at X is doing something right and if some cancel or fail to book, there will be someone else to take the cabin at a higher profit margin.

[PartyAllDaTyme]

It all depends on if the average cruiser loses benefits, or if it will now take longer to get to that same level of benefits. For example, it might be harder to get to Diamond +, but it may come with more and better perks. Or it may take about the same amount of effort to reach Emerald as it formerly did Diamond, but the perks may be similar. How this all will translate to Captain's Club remains to be seen.

 

Regarding making it based on dollars spent, this is something I had advocated a number of months ago. It was pointed out that it would be problematic. Do you include only cruise fare? If you buy beverage packages, specialty restaurants or spa treatments, do those count? What about store purchases or art auctions? Does booking shore excursions count, and if so, for the full amount, since Celebrity has to share revenue with the tour operators? What about gratuities? How about ChoiceAir or insurance purchased through the cruise line?

 

If someone drops $10,000 in the casino, do you include that, or just limit it to consideration in the players club? Do you look at the total amount of money wagered, or money actually lost? If someone wins, do you subtract it from their total:D?

 

If they do base it on money spent, I'd limit it to cruise fare and purchases made or for services on board, and maybe 50% of purchases that are split with an outside provider, such as shore excursions, air or insurance. Gratuities are more-or-less between the passenger and the staff, not the cruise line-- maybe include level of grats that Select diners are obligated to pay and the 15% on drinks; anything beyond that is a private transaction. Keep casino action separate, and reward through the players club, as is done now.

 

Doing it based on money spent does have the advantage of a more direct relationship with X's bottom line-- why should a cruise in a C3 cabin count the same as a cruise in the penthouse, or a three day trip count the same as an eleven day trip? Why should someone who gets a Tuesday special count the same as someone who booked early, then couldn't get a fare reduction when the price dropped thirty days before sailing?

 

However, if RCL goes to a day-based system, it would make sense for Celebrity to follow suit.

[Jade13]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nps001

ONLY A RUMOR....but I have heard that Celebrity might be moving to points that are associated with actual spend $. That's all I know but I would imagine that the cruise cost (not days or length) combined with onboard spend will define the levels.

 

 

Now that is one rumour I wouldn't believe for a minute. It would be ludicrious to try to do it that way.

 

I would believe it. It sounds like they might be following HAL. HAL is by cruise days with double days being given for Suites. They also give one extra "cruise day" for each $300.00 folio spend. Note that each passenger in the same stateroom gets the extra point.

 

To answer questions asked here on HAL the casino is pretty much the only spend that does not count for the extra cruise day points. Everything else does including the Hotel charges (gratuities, so it encourages passengers not to go to the front desk and have them removed), excursions including those paid for pre-cruise, cola cards, specialty restarants, purchase made in shops etc. It is maxed out based on the number of days of your cruise. so if you take a 7 night cruise the most extra cruise days you can get for "spending" is 7.

 

HAL has not set itself up like Celebrity to change the program (and alienate guests) because it already takes 200 days to make their highest level (includes free laundry and pressing). At 700 days one gets a platinum medallion which was the old HAL system of giving medallions.

 

HAL Example (perhaps Celebrity will be adopting something similar?):

 

10 night cruise with with $1,500.00 folio spend = 15 cruise day points ($1,500.00 divided by $300.00 = 5 points based on spending)

 

10 night cruise in a Suite with $1,500.00 folio spend = 25 cruise day points (Suite passengers get double cruise day points)

 

I would indeed believe that Celebrity would be moving to a program that encourages passengers to spend money while on-board.

[Jade13]

It all depends on if the average cruiser loses benefits, or if it will now take longer to get to that same level of benefits. For example, it might be harder to get to Diamond +, but it may come with more and better perks. Or it may take about the same amount of effort to reach Emerald as it formerly did Diamond, but the perks may be similar. How this all will translate to Captain's Club remains to be seen.

 

Regarding making it based on dollars spent, this is something I had advocated a number of months ago. It was pointed out that it would be problematic. Do you include only cruise fare? If you buy beverage packages, specialty restaurants or spa treatments, do those count? What about store purchases or art auctions? Does booking shore excursions count, and if so, for the full amount, since Celebrity has to share revenue with the tour operators? What about gratuities? How about ChoiceAir or insurance purchased through the cruise line?

 

If someone drops $10,000 in the casino, do you include that, or just limit it to consideration in the players club? Do you look at the total amount of money wagered, or money actually lost? If someone wins, do you subtract it from their total:D?

 

If they do base it on money spent, I'd limit it to cruise fare and purchases made or for services on board, and maybe 50% of purchases that are split with an outside provider, such as shore excursions, air or insurance. Gratuities are more-or-less between the passenger and the staff, not the cruise line-- maybe include level of grats that Select diners are obligated to pay and the 15% on drinks; anything beyond that is a private transaction. Keep casino action separate, and reward through the players club, as is done now.

 

Doing it based on money spent does have the advantage of a more direct relationship with X's bottom line-- why should a cruise in a C3 cabin count the same as a cruise in the penthouse, or a three day trip count the same as an eleven day trip? Why should someone who gets a Tuesday special count the same as someone who booked early, then couldn't get a fare reduction when the price dropped thirty days before sailing?

 

However, if RCL goes to a day-based system, it would make sense for Celebrity to follow suit.

 

Too complicated. Check out my post where I explain how Holland America Line is encouraging passengers to spend money by giving an extra point for each $300.00 spent on-board (each passenger on the folio/stateroom gets the point). The max is equal to the number of days of the cruise. Gratuities count, alcohol packages count, excursions count, etc. whether are not they are paid pre-cruise or while on-board. Casino spending does not count.

[dennbr9]

Guess I for one would be a bit miffed by new system, even though I have never worried about this stuff much. Would be Diamond under old system after our next cruise on Oasis in a Month. With 71 Sea Days, would not be Diamond under new system. Also will alter status on Celebrity Cruise that follows Oasis one.

 

Oh well, so it goes.