Irene - Veendam NYC Arrival/Departure 8/28

[Oceanwench]

How, exactly, would current cruisers be able to leave Sunday, HAL? :confused:

[Indycal]

How, exactly, would current cruisers be able to leave Sunday, HAL? :confused:

 

HAL's answer:

 

Guests will be able to embark as scheduled on Sunday provided there is access to the cruise terminal. Due to the government declared evacuation of some areas of the city and impending transit challenges, access to the cruise terminal may be limited or closed on Sunday.

For guests considering embarkation on Sunday, Holland America Line encourages guests to check local New York City transit and government websites (www.NYC.gov or www.mta.info). If you are in the local area, you can also call our special information line at 732-698-1222 for the latest information on access to the pier.

[cccole]

Indeed we will not know the outcome untill the storm has passed, however you can only work with the information at hand. What I do not understand is that all forecasts had the storm over NYC on Sunday. I guess it made sense to beat the storm and arrive early for the passengers onboard, but what exactly were they thinking for those that had to embark in the middle of a storm. It should have been obvious that there would be numerous airline delays etc.

 

I don't have a problem with CC'rs questioning the knowledge of the individuals making HAL decisions. But I do think it a bit ridiculous to say at this time that they made a bad decision. I, unlike others, do not have the latest and greatest predictions available to me. Irene has already been downgraded from a #3 to a #1 for Sunday. I hope that HAL's decision to delay the departure until Monday will accommodate most passengers, airline cancellations are a huge problem. It is not a perfect system and we all make mistakes, but I am thinking that HAL has more info than those of us who post on CC. However, maybe the news networks and NWS should ask CC posters for their opinions. I have only been in hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, and tornados, but have learned to LISTEN. When we moved to Dallas our 5 year old daughter asked "what kind of natural disasters to they have in Dallas Mom?" Cherie

[Oceanwench]

HAL's answer:

 

Guests will be able to embark as scheduled on Sunday provided there is access to the cruise terminal. Due to the government declared evacuation of some areas of the city and impending transit challenges, access to the cruise terminal may be limited or closed on Sunday.

For guests considering embarkation on Sunday, Holland America Line encourages guests to check local New York City transit and government websites (www.NYC.gov or www.mta.info). If you are in the local area, you can also call our special information line at 732-698-1222 for the latest information on access to the pier.

 

My question was about the current cruisers who have been invited by HAL to spend Saturday night on the ship ... doesn't that mean they have to disembark Sunday?

[mamaofami]

I hope that HAL's decision to delay the departure until Monday will accommodate most passengers, airline cancellations are a huge problem. It is not a perfect system and we all make mistakes, but I am thinking that HAL has more info than those of us who post on CC.

Cherie

 

Those of us who live in NY are privy to the latest information about the city, the transit shutdowns, the closed roads, etc. Not saying that Hal doesn't have good sources, but even if the rain and wind have stopped by Monday, roads will still be closed and they mayor has said it will take many hours to get the transit system up and running again. And the terminal might be without power.Time will tell if this was a good decision or a bad one that HAL made.

[Oceanwench]

Irene was never predicted to go into NY as a Cat 3 ... rather, as Cat 2 or 1.

 

From what I am hearing, it's not so much the strength of the winds, but more the size of the storm and the rain it will produce.

 

I don't think all these evacuation decisions are being made in haste. It's better to be prepared, and if the storm weakens and the flooding isn't as bad as expected - well then, that's a good thing.

 

I think we'll see a lot of people very angry at HAL for the way this was handled.

[sail7seas]

I think the new Maasdam itinerary makes sense. It seems to be logical.

[slack1]

Clearly HAL has/had a very tough decision to make and many Monday quaterbacks ready to critize. I get that. I do hope it works out for all those who have invested their money and have their hopes set on a great cruise. The bottom line is we can not change the force of nature no matter how hard we try.

[mamaofami]

I think the new Maasdam itinerary makes sense. It seems to be logical.

 

I agree, Judy. But the decisions about Veendam don't seem logical at all. Betting they change their mind.

[cccole]

Those of us who live in NY are privy to the latest information about the city, the transit shutdowns, the closed roads, etc. Not saying that Hal doesn't have good sources, but even if the rain and wind have stopped by Monday, roads will still be closed and they mayor has said it will take many hours to get the transit system up and running again. And the terminal might be without power.Time will tell if this was a good decision or a bad one that HAL made.

 

You're right, time will tell. I have good friends who live in Manhattan, friends who have taken precautions on Long Beach Island, NJ, friends arriving into Boston on the Maasdam on Saturday, friends in Boston, and I am hoping that everyone will be o.k. It has been important to take the precautions that everyone has in order to prevent disasters. I just don't think that it is appropriate to blame individuals for their opinions or decisions at this point. On Monday, you can put a blame list on CC for everyone who made a false prediction. but I think it inappropriate now. What we want to happen now is for people in the areas affected by this storm to be prepared and be safe. Cherie

[3rdGenCunarder]

I don't have a problem with CC'rs questioning the knowledge of the individuals making HAL decisions. But I do think it a bit ridiculous to say at this time that they made a bad decision. I, unlike others, do not have the latest and greatest predictions available to me. Irene has already been downgraded from a #3 to a #1 for Sunday. I hope that HAL's decision to delay the departure until Monday will accommodate most passengers, airline cancellations are a huge problem. It is not a perfect system and we all make mistakes, but I am thinking that HAL has more info than those of us who post on CC. However, maybe the news networks and NWS should ask CC posters for their opinions. I have only been in hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, and tornados, but have learned to LISTEN. When we moved to Dallas our 5 year old daughter asked "what kind of natural disasters to they have in Dallas Mom?" Cherie

 

Those of us in the NY-metro area have been listening. For several days! We all have access to weather info. News reports, Weather channel, and NOAA. The computer models have been consistent for days.

 

The mayor of NYC asked people who had not evacuated to plan on staying indoors for 24 hours, and that time span included all day Sunday. Yet HAL pax are supposed to be able to disembark on Sunday?

 

This evening, one of the TV weatherman said this evening to "forget focusing on hurricane vs tropical storm, this is gonna be big." The only difference between the different hurricane categories and a tropical storm is wind speed. That's the defining factor. Hurricane category doesn't tell about rain. The issue with this storm is rain and lots of it, which leads to flooding. It's new moon, which means higher than usual high tides, another cause of flooding. And the storm is moving slowly, which means it will rain for many many hours, exacerbating flooding.

 

It seems like everyone is listening to weather reports/predictions. Except HAL.

[sail7seas]

Maybe they know things we don't know......

 

but I agree on the surface, the choices re: Veendam don't seem to make sense as compared to those made for Maasdam.

 

[LAFFNVEGAS]

The most interesting comment that has been added later this after noon was that it was approved by the Coast Guard and the NYC Mayors Office. I think they have felt they were coming under fire and needed to defend themselves.

 

This is from HAL's web site.

 

ms Veendam August 21, 7-day Bermuda Cruise

The ship departed Bermuda at 5:00pm on Thursday, August 25, and is scheduled to arrive in New York one day early on Saturday, ahead of the storm’s anticipated arrival. Guests who desire to leave Saturday morning in advance of the storm will be able to do so. For guests who overnight until Sunday, the ship will remain in port. These plans have been approved by the United States Coast Guard and the New York City Mayor’s Office.

[cccole]

Those of us in the NY-metro area have been listening. For several days! We all have access to weather info. News reports, Weather channel, and NOAA. The computer models have been consistent for days.

 

The mayor of NYC asked people who had not evacuated to plan on staying indoors for 24 hours, and that time span included all day Sunday. Yet HAL pax are supposed to be able to disembark on Sunday?

 

This evening, one of the TV weatherman said this evening to "forget focusing on hurricane vs tropical storm, this is gonna be big." The only difference between the different hurricane categories and a tropical storm is wind speed. That's the defining factor. Hurricane category doesn't tell about rain. The issue with this storm is rain and lots of it, which leads to flooding. It's new moon, which means higher than usual high tides, another cause of flooding. And the storm is moving slowly, which means it will rain for many many hours, exacerbating flooding.

 

It seems like everyone is listening to weather reports/predictions. Except HAL.

 

So....you listened and you are prepared. FABULOUS! That is the way it should be. I agree with all of the precautions that are being taken and hope that everyone LISTENs, but I don't know anyone at this moment who can say that HAL made a bad decision. Take precautions, prepare for the worst and pray for the best. This has been said by many and I hope cruise passengers will be able to enjoy the changes in their cruises. Cherie

[3rdGenCunarder]

The most interesting comment that has been added later this after noon was that it was approved by the Coast Guard and the NYC Mayors Office. I think they have felt they were coming under fire and needed to defend themselves.

 

This is from HAL's web site.

 

ms Veendam August 21, 7-day Bermuda Cruise

The ship departed Bermuda at 5:00pm on Thursday, August 25, and is scheduled to arrive in New York one day early on Saturday, ahead of the storm’s anticipated arrival. Guests who desire to leave Saturday morning in advance of the storm will be able to do so. For guests who overnight until Sunday, the ship will remain in port. These plans have been approved by the United States Coast Guard and the New York City Mayor’s Office.

 

I saw that. It surprised me, considering how adamant the Mayor has been about getting out of town or hunkering down indoors.

 

I just looked at the changes to Maasdam. I suppose missing Bar Harbor and Halifax can be disappointing for first-timers, but so many Canada/New England cruises stop at those ports that many cruisers may have been there before. Not as many cruises call at Gaspe and Saguenay, so I hope the pax see that as an opportunity to do something new.

[3rdGenCunarder]

So....you listened and you are prepared. FABULOUS! That is the way it should be. I agree with all of the precautions that are being taken and hope that everyone LISTENs, but I don't know anyone at this moment who can say that HAL made a bad decision. Take precautions, prepare for the worst and pray for the best. This has been said by many and I hope cruise passengers will be able to enjoy the changes in their cruises. Cherie

 

So people who live in the path of Irene should be prepared, but it's OK for HAL to do something that could be a mess? Makes no sense to me, but I give up. I have to go drag the patio furniture inside...

[HeatherInFlorida]

You will not know it was a bad decision until Sunday or Monday. Previous "Mother Nature" events have turned out differently than "advertized." Hopefully all of the embarking passengers will be fine. It is unfortunate for the current passengers that their cruise was cut short. I can't imagine that HAL will not make it "right" with them. Cherie

 

You have GOT to be kidding. So because "previous Mother Nature events" didn't materialize as we thought they would we should simply ignore all warnings of this one? Sounds great. Let's just ignore all the other "Mother Nature events" that played out EXACTLY as forecasted. I know; I've lived through them. Thank heaven most people here in Florida listen when we're warned.

 

You can't imagine HAL won't make it "right"? Really???!!! This entire post is outrageous. HAL has already failed all the passengers who are trying as hard as they can to make their way to NY for their cruise because they've been told it was business as usual. And they are doing that because they, too, believed that HAL would not let them down!!! Anything HAL does now is a little too little a little too late.

 

I guess it's the people like you who insist on staying in their homes when they are told to evacuate. They just figure all will be fine and then when water is up to their eyeballs they're screaming for help and sue the city when it doesn't arrive right on schedule.

 

Irene has already been downgraded from a #3 to a #1 for Sunday.

 

And since you state you don't have access to the latest predictions (which is difficult since they are on internet and TV 24/7), let me fill you in. They have been 100% accurate so far in predicting exactly what this storm would do ... the exact track, the exact category. So it was not "downgraded" from a Cat 3 to a Cat 1. It was a Cat 3, then a Cat 2. They have always predicted that as it passes Cape Hatteras it will be a 1. Do not be fooled by a number. 5 mph this way or that is not what this storm is about.

 

 

................... It makes me wonder if this was a financial decision.

 

On a lighter note, perhaps the decision was made by the same person who decided the Veendam needed a poolette.

 

To point #1 .... unfortunately it's always about money in the end ... especially when it's a lot of money.

 

To point #2 .... you just may have a point.:D

[baggal]

They just announced that NYC airports are closing tomorrow, Saturday, at 12 noon.

 

I think its time for HAL to throw in the towel, give everyone on Sunday's cruise a future cruise credit, and help the arriving pax tomorrow find a hotel to stay in.

[foto]

No subways and buses in nyc starting saturday from 12pm

[HeatherInFlorida]

I apologize for harping on this, but I am beyond angry. When remarks are made about HAL "knowing something" we don't, or they somehow know better than the thousand or so people trying to get to NY to set sail, it bears remembering that most of the passengers are not rolling out of bed and down to the pier.

 

They were flying in from all over. They had to start out sometimes a day early or so. They are up against enormous odds trying to get to a city that is practically going into lockdown this weekend.

 

So no matter what HAL may or may not think they know, their lack of attentiveness to the situation and lack of consideration of the passengers is unconscionable. It is cruel and inhuman.

 

In all the time I've been on CC and all the cruising I've done, I have never been this angry. I am so sick and tired of everything being about the almight dollar at the end of the day and the H*** with everything and everyone else.

[Rowsby]

Cargo and tankers are leaving the ports....

Veendam, Explorer of the Sea, Norwegian Jewel and Carnival Glory are all heading to New York...

www.marinetraffic.com

[cccole]

You have GOT to be kidding. So because "previous Mother Nature events" didn't materialize as we thought they would we should simply ignore all warnings of this one? Sounds great. Let's just ignore all the other "Mother Nature events" that played out EXACTLY as forecasted. I know; I've lived through them. Thank heaven most people here in Florida listen when we're warned.

 

You can't imagine HAL won't make it "right"? Really???!!! This entire post is outrageous. HAL has already failed all the passengers who are trying as hard as they can to make their way to NY for their cruise because they've been told it was business as usual. And they are doing that because they, too, believed that HAL would not let them down!!! Anything HAL does now is a little too little a little too late.

 

I guess it's the people like you who insist on staying in their homes when they are told to evacuate. They just figure all will be fine and then when water is up to their eyeballs they're screaming for help and sue the city when it doesn't arrive right on schedule.

 

 

 

To point #1 .... unfortunately it's always about money in the end ... especially when it's a lot of money.

 

To point #2 .... you just may have a point.:D

 

REALLY? People like me? REALLY? Did you actually ready my posts? When I lived in Florida I listened and took precautions for hurricanes, when we heard the sirens in Wichita we went to the basement, when in the way of tsunamis we go to higher ground, and well...there is really nothing you can do to prepare for an earthquake except store supplies. Or...maybe you have suggestions? It is unconscionable to risk the life of someone to save your life because you did not listen. We had a discussion with our children at lunch today about what "mandatory evacuation" means. They asked if someone can make you leave your home. We said that "no they cannot", but they can tell you that if you ignore their advice you will be on your own and there will be no emergency help available to you. A stupid choice in my opinion, but I can't speak for everyone. Can you tell me why you say that I advise people to not take the precautions advised? It's really important to listen.

 

I haven't heard about HAL not helping passengers. That would be horrendous. The airlines have been working desperately to accommodate. There is definitely going to be a storm surge and flooding, but we don't know how that is going to effect the cruise lines, so I am asking that blame posts wait until after we know the facts and we hope that those in the way of the storm are safe. Cherie

[Sagedeb]

I started this thread back on Wednesday afternoon - I cannot even count the number of times my TA and I have reached out to HAL to get some kind of direction or answers. We waited and watched as Celebrity, NCL, Carnival all made decisions and informed their passengers - NO ONE else is telling people to try to come to NYC. I live locally (in CT) and I cannot believe that at this point I will be sitting here Sunday night trying to determine if my home is ok, if the roads are ok, if my dogsitter can still come, if the port will be open, etc. I offered earlier today to move to the 9/11 itinerary (so no $$ lost for them and two less pax to deal with this weekend) and they refused (there are tons of cabins)...none of this makes any sense.

[cccole]

I started this thread back on Wednesday afternoon - I cannot even count the number of times my TA and I have reached out to HAL to get some kind of direction or answers. We waited and watched as Celebrity, NCL, Carnival all made decisions and informed their passengers - NO ONE else is telling people to try to come to NYC. I live locally (in CT) and I cannot believe that at this point I will be sitting here Sunday night trying to determine if my home is ok, if the roads are ok, if my dogsitter can still come, if the port will be open, etc. I offered earlier today to move to the 9/11 itinerary (so no $$ lost for them and two less pax to deal with this weekend) and they refused (there are tons of cabins)...none of this makes any sense.

 

I would be upset if I were you. I hope that HAL makes it up to you, and I would be disappointed with the uncertainty and lack of options. I hope you get to go on the cruise or are compensated. Cherie

[vbmom87]

I started this thread back on Wednesday afternoon - I cannot even count the number of times my TA and I have reached out to HAL to get some kind of direction or answers. We waited and watched as Celebrity, NCL, Carnival all made decisions and informed their passengers - NO ONE else is telling people to try to come to NYC. I live locally (in CT) and I cannot believe that at this point I will be sitting here Sunday night trying to determine if my home is ok, if the roads are ok, if my dogsitter can still come, if the port will be open, etc. I offered earlier today to move to the 9/11 itinerary (so no $$ lost for them and two less pax to deal with this weekend) and they refused (there are tons of cabins)...none of this makes any sense.

 

Looks like HAL goofed big time with this situation. With the other cruiselines being proactive, HAL is not looking good with their choices. I hope they get their act together by first thing tomorrow morning.