Kids in CL?

[wolfganghowell]

Gee thanks Marci, I had NO IDEA. :rolleyes:

 

Of course Corporate yessed me to death. I work in the real world and have owned my own business. I get it.

 

And as I stated, I have never been impacted by kids in the bars. I think Royal does a pretty good job of keeping a healthy balance between kids, adults and family areas.

 

The CL is not a public area. It has been a regulated area for a small segment of the passenger base. It has been marketed as an ADULT area for 3 hours a day. When I booked my GS, I expected to receive what I had been marketed. I will NOT be receiving it and I am allowed to voice my displeasure. I have not belittled or insulted ANYONE who has an opposing opinion.

 

Since I did not say ONE NEGATIVE WORD about the public areas of the ship or children, I don't really get your post telling me to look for a more adult oriented cruise line.

[teajak]

Well, corporate yessed you to death because it doesn't pay to argue.

 

Business models change over time to suit the demographic. More families on board means more kids, which means that they may impact your vacation.

 

If you want a quiet adult environment, I would recommend your cabin, and not the public areas of a ship that is known to cater to families, and children! Otherwise look at the more adult-oriented cruiselines, there are plenty.

Instead of most of us seeking a more adult oriented cruiseline may I suggest the people with children seek a more kid friendly cruiseline,there are plenty.:rolleyes:

[bajathree]

Gee thanks Marci, I had NO IDEA. :rolleyes:

 

Of course Corporate yessed me to death. I work in the real world and have owned my own business. I get it.

 

And as I stated, I have never been impacted by kids in the bars. I think Royal does a pretty good job of keeping a healthy balance between kids, adults and family areas.

 

The CL is not a public area. It has been a regulated area for a small segment of the passenger base. It has been marketed as an ADULT area for 3 hours a day. When I booked my GS, I expected to receive what I had been marketed. I will NOT be receiving it and I am allowed to voice my displeasure. I have not belittled or insulted ANYONE who has an opposing opinion.

 

Since I did not say ONE NEGATIVE WORD about the public areas of the ship or children, I don't really get your post telling me to look for a more adult oriented cruise line.

 

If there is one thing that every large corporation should have learned over the last couple of years ....IS "transparency"......this is exactly what could and should be prevented.....read my post above;)

[simplylife0010]

I absolutely disagree with you regarding the statements above. I've never seen "boys running around with their pants hanging down past their rear ends". Judging by all the comments on this threat it is very common on RCCL that kids misbehave, spill drinks all over, ruin food and dance on chairs. While there are certainly some occasions when kids do stuff like this on Carnival, I personally did not experience that.

 

My family has been on several Carnival cruises and while I see some deficiencies with their product, such as lack of attention to detail, I enjoyed other aspects of their experiences, including active night life.

 

 

I am appalled by some comments made here about "Carnival" crowd - such as comparing it to Wall-mart crowd.

 

First of all, there is nothing wrong with being Wall-mart crowd - not everyone was born with the silver spoon in their mouth or made it big (either through luck or hard work).

 

Second, even with Carnival prices a family from "Wall-mart crowd" cannot afford to go on Carnival cruise. Majority of the passengers are from at least middle income families.

 

Our next two bookings are on RCCL and Carnival. I don't think we will be sailing very many Carnival cruises in the future because I would like more refined cruise experience (without experiencing a dead ship after 10pm like on X). I wonder if my family will be worthy enough in your eyes to sail on RCCL. I have doctorate degree, my husband owns successful business and my kids are on honor roll. Since we enjoyed certain aspects of Carnival cruise in the past (not all because no cruise line is perfect), I wonder how you view us?

 

P.S. I am staring to think that Carnival got right. Their experience is mostly "one-class" cruising and while both elite and suite passengers have some perks, those perks are not as substantial as RCCL's and as a result do not produce elitist attitude observed on this thread.

 

 

You have your opinion and I have mine. I could really care less. I don't agree with everything that Royal does but I also don't feel the need to defend them like you do Carnival but in the end, yes I believe that Carnival is the Wal Mart of cruise lines. You see more people like this on Carnival than any of line.;)

 

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/photos

[wolfganghowell]

Steve, totally agree. I get that decisions have to be made based on changing economics. As I told Corporate by phone and by email, I have been adversely affected by their decisions before - Texas used to have a year round ship but they changed to seasonal because of $$$, they banned Diamond from the CL because of crowding - I got that too. I didn't like either decision but I understood them. This one doesn't make a lot of sense because it appears they are angering the MAJORITY to appease the MINORITY. Anyone who has worked in a customer oriented business knows this makes no sense - we all have to make hard decisions that can alienate clients but SMART companies make decisions that negatively impact the LEAST amount of regular and loyal customers. RCCL doesn't seem to be doing that.

[marci22]

Instead of most of us seeking a more adult oriented cruiseline may I suggest the people with children seek a more kid friendly cruiseline,there are plenty.:rolleyes:

 

But Royal Caribbean is very kid friendly, and seems to be getting more so by the day. I have been on Disney and the kids are younger in general, more toddlers and up to 10, while Royal has an older kid crowd. My kids are teens so prefer Royal. I probably will look at different cruiselines once my kids are out on their own, but it works well for now.

[FLSteve11]

Instead of most of us seeking a more adult oriented cruiseline may I suggest the people with children seek a more kid friendly cruiseline,there are plenty.:rolleyes:

 

More kid friendly? Outside of Disney it would be hard to argue another line is more kid friendly then RCCL is at this point. The only thing missing are waterslides (on most of their ships) Rock-climbing walls, ice skating rinks, inline track lanes, big sports deck, H2O Zone, then throw in dreamwork characters in parades and such. It's very clear this is what RCCL is now marketed towards with their ships.

[LBcruzman]

Steve, totally agree. I get that decisions have to be made based on changing economics. As I told Corporate by phone and by email, I have been adversely affected by their decisions before - Texas used to have a year round ship but they changed to seasonal because of $$$, they banned Diamond from the CL because of crowding - I got that too. I didn't like either decision but I understood them. This one doesn't make a lot of sense because it appears they are angering the MAJORITY to appease the MINORITY. Anyone who has worked in a customer oriented business knows this makes no sense - we all have to make hard decisions that can alienate clients but SMART companies make decisions that negatively impact the LEAST amount of regular and loyal customers. RCCL doesn't seem to be doing that.

 

Sorry, but how do you KNOW they are angering the majority? I think there are plenty of us who understand this decision. They aren't kicking anyone out of the CL (yet) they are just extending the invitation to under 21's who are either Diamond Plus or a Suite guest. It is not the end of the world.

 

It will be interesting to get the feedback from cruisers who experience under 21's in the CL. Why don't we wait to see how this all turns out?

[Debde]

Instead of most of us seeking a more adult oriented cruiseline may I suggest the people with children seek a more kid friendly cruiseline,there are plenty.:rolleyes:

 

The day Royal introduced Shrek was the day many should of starting heading towards Celebrity if the younger generation was a problem for them!!:)

[breeze123]

Steve, totally agree. I get that decisions have to be made based on changing economics. As I told Corporate by phone and by email, I have been adversely affected by their decisions before - Texas used to have a year round ship but they changed to seasonal because of $$$, they banned Diamond from the CL because of crowding - I got that too. I didn't like either decision but I understood them. This one doesn't make a lot of sense because it appears they are angering the MAJORITY to appease the MINORITY. Anyone who has worked in a customer oriented business knows this makes no sense - we all have to make hard decisions that can alienate clients but SMART companies make decisions that negatively impact the LEAST amount of regular and loyal customers. RCCL doesn't seem to be doing that.

 

If this really was angering the majority then they wouldn't be doing it. I suspect they got a lot more requests from the supposed minority which is why they opened up the lounge as they did. Personally, if you're traveling with your family, I don't think it's fair to say "Well, you can come in, but the rest of your party can't." You paid for the privilege to use the lounge just like everyone else did.

 

While I can see both sides of all of these arguments, in the end I think it's just about respect (like many have said in this thread along the way). It's not about kids or no kids. It's about respect in general. Many adults act like children and many children act more like adults. If you can't act respectfully (regardless of your age) you should be asked to leave.

[wolfganghowell]

Sorry, but how do you KNOW they are angering the majority?

 

I'm making an educated, informed and researched "guess" based on responses posted here, on Adam's blog and on RCCL's Facebook page. Also - since Corporate themselves says they only average about 5 families per cruise that would be affected and there are MANY more suites and D+ people that are affected that did not ask for this policy change, I think it's a fair assumption that this is a decision that benefits a minority and is opposed by the majority. You're right - I don't KNOW but the fact that 3 different internet sites back me up by postings, I feel pretty good about where the majority falls on this issue.

[uksimonusa]

If this really was angering the majority then they wouldn't be doing it. I suspect they got a lot more requests from the supposed minority which is why they opened up the lounge as they did. Personally, if you're traveling with your family, I don't think it's fair to say "Well, you can come in, but the rest of your party can't." You paid for the privilege to use the lounge just like everyone else did.

 

While I can see both sides of all of these arguments, in the end I think it's just about respect (like many have said in this thread along the way). It's not about kids or no kids. It's about respect in general. Many adults act like children and many children act more like adults. If you can't act respectfully (regardless of your age) you should be asked to leave.

 

In reality, that is exactly what they are saying in a lot of cases, very often parents will book a GS and have a balcony or interior for the kids, those kids are not allowed into the CL unless they are D+. Same with a group of friends travelling together.

[Debde]

This one doesn't make a lot of sense because it appears they are angering the MAJORITY to appease the MINORITY. Anyone who has worked in a customer oriented business knows this makes no sense - we all have to make hard decisions that can alienate clients but SMART companies make decisions that negatively impact the LEAST amount of regular and loyal customers. RCCL doesn't seem to be doing that.

 

first-you have no proof as to this angering the MAJORITY. A poll on CC means very little.

second-how do you know that this was not thought out for quite some time and already has the company knowing this is a good move. After Diamonds were booted, it had no negative impact on filling ships and that's the bottom line.

third-seems the loyal and regular passengers still have a lounge that is child free.

 

Some people are not seeing the forest through the tree's here and there are probably many more changes coming and this is just the heads up.

[LBcruzman]

I am starting to think that this may be just the beginning of a much bigger loyalty change not far down the pike. The timing of this new policy is kind of interesting.......just leading up to the Diamonds in December event. Many are speculating that allowing children into an already overcrowded CL set's things up for D+ to be kicked out of the CL like they did with D members during the last big loyalty change. Well let's think about it....loyalty #'s are still going to grow in leaps and bounds...even with the new changes that took place to the point system to try to slow things down. Royal again is throwing the Diamonds in December Celebration...again giving double and triple points to entice C&A members to sail and use this event for C&A guests to grow themselves to the next C&A loyalty tiers....so they themselves are pushing people into higher tiers. Both DL's and CL's are already overcrowded at present and often need the use of overflow lounges. Let's face facts....the C&A program has got to be growing faster than those that are reaching high levels and then for whatever reason not sailing. Young children are D and D+ members well before they can even legally sail on their

own.....when they turn 21 and sailing for the very first time on their own they will already be coming in as D and D+ members. It is inevitable that changes will again have to be made....the question is just when. They are adding DL's to older ships as they go into dry-dock....but these aren't big lounges and aren't going to be able to handle the #'s....heck the DL on Oasis/Allure can't handle the volume...and they are the largest ships in the world and were just designed and built and the C&A loyalty #'s have already exceeded the size of their DL's.

While many are fearful of D+ getting kicked out of the CL, reality would

probably be a much bigger change....something that may be closer to Pinnacle and suite guests only allowed entry into the CL.....the DL becoming the D+L...and D having either some event of their own or probably closer to just adding some additional perks to the C&A Diamond book like free drink coupons. I know that no one wants to hear any of this but change is here and if it's here to stay like AG has stated in his blog than I think it's just the beginning of a much bigger plan that may be inevitable.

 

I have been saying this for some time now. In fact, I was surprised that they didn't kick D+ out of the CL when they announced the credit/point changes in January. In looking back I now see why they are waiting. Many of the people who had been D+ for some time but didn't have enough credits to be Pinnacle had their noses thrown out of joint a little. They were no longer top tier. Had RCL thrown them out of the CL then, there would have been an outcry.

 

Now the kids are moving into "their" seats in the CL. Big outcry but the Boss stays firm. It is just a matter of time for additional changes.

 

Btw....I very recently attained D+. After the Diamonds in December there are going to be so many new D+ that RCL will have their excuse to make the change.

[LBcruzman]

I'm waiting for the "CL Chair Hogs" to start soon. The people who are going to run in there long before HH and put their things on a chair and come back later and expect "their" seat. *sly grin*

 

Oh my gosh, NO! But with the attitude of some on here I don't doubt that could happen.

[bajathree]

I have been saying this for some time now. In fact, I was surprised that they didn't kick D+ out of the CL when they announced the credit/point changes in January. In looking back I now see why they are waiting. Many of the people who had been D+ for some time but didn't have enough credits to be Pinnacle had their noses thrown out of joint a little. They were no longer top tier. Had RCL thrown them out of the CL then, there would have been an outcry.

 

Now the kids are moving into "their" seats in the CL. Big outcry but the Boss stays firm. It is just a matter of time for additional changes.

 

Btw....I very recently attained D+. After the Diamonds in December there are going to be so many new D+ that RCL will have their excuse to make the change.

 

Absolutely....in Royals mind the Diamonds in December event is like them telling you..... hint;)...hint;).....we are giving you the opportunity to get extra points to raise you to the next tier before changes come.

 

I just still think they should be more transparent and just come out and announce the planned changes with dates and let everyone scream and get it over with at once.

[critterchick]

I have been saying this for some time now. In fact, I was surprised that they didn't kick D+ out of the CL when they announced the credit/point changes in January. In looking back I now see why they are waiting. Many of the people who had been D+ for some time but didn't have enough credits to be Pinnacle had their noses thrown out of joint a little. They were no longer top tier. Had RCL thrown them out of the CL then, there would have been an outcry.

 

Now the kids are moving into "their" seats in the CL. Big outcry but the Boss stays firm. It is just a matter of time for additional changes.

 

Btw....I very recently attained D+. After the Diamonds in December there are going to be so many new D+ that RCL will have their excuse to make the change.

 

Many of us have suspected that D+ will be evicted from the CL at some point. If not 2012, maybe after most of the ships have had their "Oasisizing" experience - presumably they'll include some kind of Diamond Lounge addition. And if that happens, then I don't see why people would be upset that they are separate but equal in that regard. Except on Oasis & Allure, where the difference in physcial quality between the two lounges is extreme.

[LBcruzman]

bajathree-the writing as been on the wall for this for quite some time now. Many just choose to not see it.

The CC leaks and hints have begun. Standard for this website when changes are coming.

 

If I remember correctly-before I left for business a thread started about children in the lounge and voila-I return to the new policy.

Hints were dropped numerous times last diamonds in december program to 'get to the level you want before January'

Hints were dropped when diamonds got the boot.

 

Did all think these new D lounges were being added so more folks could drink for free? I didn't think so and thought here comes a Diamond event for D's and the lounges are for D+.

 

Exactly.

[breeze123]

In reality, that is exactly what they are saying in a lot of cases, very often parents will book a GS and have a balcony or interior for the kids, those kids are not allowed into the CL unless they are D+. Same with a group of friends travelling together.

 

Sorry, should have been more specific. If the rest of your party is not in your suite or a suite of their own, then no, they don't have the privilege. I was thinking more of families all staying in one room together.

[LBcruzman]

Many of us have suspected that D+ will be evicted from the CL at some point. If not 2012, maybe after most of the ships have had their "Oasisizing" experience - presumably they'll include some kind of Diamond Lounge addition. And if that happens, then I don't see why people would be upset that they are separate but equal in that regard. Except on Oasis & Allure, where the difference in physcial quality between the two lounges is extreme.

 

I agree. We have always enjoyed the Diamond Lounges on Freedom and Oasis Class ships. They are lovely. Leaving the CL to the Suite Guests and their kids will ease the crowding for the CL. Putting in Diamond Lounges on some of the older ships (Radiance and Voyager Class) should satisfy the D+.

 

As for the Diamonds? I'm thinking they are going to get the shaft yet again and lose the DL.

[nicholegore]

Well I will be on the Oasis in November and staying in the Owner's Suite with my two children. My youngest will on 13 months and this is a relief for me and my husband. This way we can enjoy a cocktail together instead of switching off because children are not allowed. My other child would be bored out his mind so would be in camp. We also pay good money for these children to be in a suite and I dont think they should be excluded from the CL. The CL has the least "bar type" atmosphere on the entire ship.

[simplylife0010]

Many of us have suspected that D+ will be evicted from the CL at some point. If not 2012, maybe after most of the ships have had their "Oasisizing" experience - presumably they'll include some kind of Diamond Lounge addition. And if that happens, then I don't see why people would be upset that they are separate but equal in that regard. Except on Oasis & Allure, where the difference in physcial quality between the two lounges is extreme.

 

 

Well expect the parents to run to AG and complain that they are not allowed in the Diamond lounge with their kids so he will give them access to that also. Parents aren't happy unless they are shoving their kids down everyone's throat. Can't wait for one of these little things to get their hands on some alcohol and then the big stink will start. Parents will want to know why Royal didn't have a plan in place to watch their little angels while they were in the lounges. :rolleyes:

[simplylife0010]

Oh yes a 13 month old child absolutely belongs in a Concierge lounge. Great setting for a young child.:rolleyes:

[FLSteve11]

Btw....I very recently attained D+. After the Diamonds in December there are going to be so many new D+ that RCL will have their excuse to make the change.

 

I don't think it will be as bad this time around. Last year, you had people doing a B2B2B over 10 days on the Majesty/Monarch and picking up 6 cruise credits, 9 if in a suite. Now that will only net you 20 days at sea (30 in a suite). You can't do the D -> D+ jump as easily with the short cruises anymore using the december event. Still, you will get some who will get their quicker this method.

[FLSteve11]

In reality, that is exactly what they are saying in a lot of cases, very often parents will book a GS and have a balcony or interior for the kids, those kids are not allowed into the CL unless they are D+. Same with a group of friends travelling together.

 

I wonder if concierges are actually going to check the kids room cards to see if they are also in the suite, or just go by the parents.

 

Also, can parents pick up an extra room key for their room and give it to their kids (you can do it with other rooms)? I guess that would work with friends as well currently if it is allowed.