Costa Concordia SINKING

[EastSideGuy]

Pianobar - Very eloquently stated.

 

Would note that drills on Cunard I have attended are serious - you must put on your life vest, and there are good instructions given - entire drill was about ten minutes. Was just on Celebrity - no need to bring the life vest, and the entire function was less than five minutes - with dancers doing a comedy bit at the end. Felt much more reassured with Cunard, and very happy to take the extra five minutes to ensure safety.

[geocruiser]

I have been watching the news on TV about the ship. The news said that the Captian never call the coast guard. Did any one else hear this and/or know why?

[Feelin' Nauti']

So sorry for all, hope all missing are found.

With all the appropriate navigational equipment aboard, how could this have been allowed to happen..? :cool:

[desertr0se]

Yes, I believe you are correct.

[alwayshappytocruise]

"He said children and women were given priority when it came to allocating places on lifeboats, but the system proved to be difficult to implement because many men "weren't accepting this" because they wanted to remain together as a family, prompting "huge confusion". "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16561382

 

The muster drills never mention this ancient code of conduct in ship emergencies. Many modern males feel they should be bound by it. Giving up the seat on the bus has gone the way of women and children first into the lifeboats. What can the crew do with such men. The crew isn't armed. The pushing and shoving on the Costa cruise I went on was unprecedented for me. I still loved the ship and the services but I worried what would happen in an emergency. I don't know how a muster drill can change what is apparently acceptable behavior for certain passengers.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't get into a lifeboat if my husband couldn't be with me. Times have changed for the better...I can completely understand a man not wanting to leave his wife and children.

[TVChick16]

Good Morning America story and video including phone interview with American passenger

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/reports-cruise-ship-aground-off-italy-dead-15359045

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Oh, thank you very much!!!!!! :)

Does anyone have sources that she ship could be salvaged?

If the ship is declared a total loss then it is likely that she will be left in place, the fuel and any other salvagable items will be removed and she will be left to rust away.

 

However if the vessel is empeding the entrance or exit to the local harbour then they will be forced to remove her.

 

At this moment in time it is far too early to say what is likely to happen, once a full and comprehensive search has been undertaken for any missing people they will then start to take recovery action.

 

Recovery at this time is a million miles away as a full survey would have to be done on the hull to see what damage is there, then to see if it can be patched up.

 

Remember the boat is now lying on its starboard side and when it settled it is also likely to have suffered some damage to that side too - hence the full survey.

 

She will not sink any further as she appears to have settled on the bottom, but with the structure above the water it will be putting tremendous stresses on the ship that is damaged and underwater.

 

This is not going to be a quick fix, its going to take some considerable time, look at the Riverdance that went aground off Liverpool/Blackpool in the UK they took her apart piece by piece.

 

As regards the cause, this will come out when the information is put together and the are interviewed, even passengers will be asked for information. They will look at everything that caused the event and also everything afterwards. The navigational movements of the ship will be looked into, if it can be shown that the navigational charts were incorrect then hopefully it will be a no blame charge against the ship/Captain/Company. Changes to navigational details do and can occur, this can be due to natural or man made causes.

 

I dont intend putting blame to anyone at this stage and will await the full report of the incident and to see how the Shipping industry take onboard any recommendations that are put forward by the admiralty board

[CruiseScrooge]

on my european costa cruise a few years ago we were required to stand shortest in front and tallest in back from by the railing to the tallest person being against the deck wall for the muster drill near the life boats. a photo was taken of each line and your name was checked off the cabin list. i sure stuck out like a sore thumb because i didn't have a clue what they were doing until someone finally said something in english to me. talking was not allowed and it was the most serious muster i've been on by far.

[Capricruiser]

I have been watching the news on TV about the ship. The news said that the Captian never call the coast guard. Did any one else hear this and/or know why?

I just saw the interview with the Italian Coast Guard spokesman Paolillo who said the distress call was received from the Concordia right after it hit the rock, and rescue operations were initiated. Link: http://video.repubblica.it/edizione/firenze/tutto-e-cominciato-da-una-falla/85717/84106

[Joren]

As I watch with horror at the events in Italy, a few thoughts came to mind...

 

I always wonder, as I stand with everyone else on the deck for the muster drill, what these smiling, relaxed crew members would be like in an actual emergency. No one can predict what they would be like in a real evacuation, even trained crew members. But as I am seeing early reports of passengers telling of less than stellar help from the crew, I have no doubt we will hear of stories of crew members going well above the call of duty to help passengers in crisis.

 

And second, while I am thinking and praying of all those who lost their lives and were injured, I also find myself thinking of the captain of the ship. Having met a few on our previous cruises, I have no doubt this captain, like all masters of ships this size, takes the lives of his passengers and crew very seriously. Although the details are not yet known, it seems to me he was perhaps trying to bring a damaged ship to port or at least closer to port where rescue would be easier. I think we will never know how many countless lives may have been lost had he done otherwise. I have no doubt that this captain will be traumatized for the rest of his life having been responsible for the loss of even just one life. I am praying for him and all those who were affected by this tragedy.

 

Very true. I've sailed twice on Costa Serena, and passenger behavior during muster drills was much like it was on other ships, and even during safety demos on board aircraft. Complacency, joking around, reading, playing with cell phones etc. Through my work as a Flight crew member, I've experienced two emergencies requiring evacuation, so I take this stuff VERY seriously. I've told people at muster drills to get up and pay attention, and they then get shirty with me. It's not just their butt they are risking, but the butts of other people that they could endanger when they panic in an emergency - because they weren't paying attention when they should have been.

 

I've seen this happen twice in real life situations. Men pushing women and children out of the way to get out, people looking for their bags when the airplane is on fire, and on the opposite end of the spectrum, people just sitting there looking stunned.

 

Emergency drills and procedures are so heavily drilled into the heads of crew members that it becomes second nature.

 

It will be interesting to read official reports on this incident. I can see where evacuation procedures would be further complicated by having large groups of people speaking different languages aboard. Both times on Serena, I found that the French/Italian/Germans didn't really interact with each other at all, even though many Europeans speak several languages.

 

Bear in mind when you are reading media reports is that they are notorious for misquoting/taking words out of context. Unfortunately, passengers also have a habit of "misremembering" things and twisting them or making statements that give the impression of panic when there was none. The best example I can give of this is in aircraft emergencies: "the crew was panicking and screaming at us" (They are supposed to yell at you... it gets your attention focused on them to reduce passenger positive and negative panic and the crews instructions to get you out of there as quickly as possible)

 

I have no qualms about the safety of cruising. I make sure to review all the safety procedures and escape routes, usually BEFORE the muster drills. I can't believe that some lines are having briefings in lounges. If true, thats very irresponsible on the cruise lines part.

[IRL_Joanie]

My deepest sympathies to all those involved. From the location and images seen, it looks like the Captain made for the pier as soon as the incident took place otherwise the ship would have had no reason to be as close to the island as she seems to have been.

Yes, I think along the same lines as you are.

 

It appears that there was something like a 40 minute time frame from initial loss of electrical power and the grounding, and that possibly the Captain was trying to get to the port there when they ran aground.

 

Since the media has so far made a mess of many of the actual details, I am going to try my best to wait for official word on what happened.

 

God Bless all involved, crew, passengers, officers, rescuers, families and friends. You are all in my prayers.

 

Joanie

[alwayshappytocruise]

Sorry, but who cares about the ship......

Im concerned about the people missing, and the dead.

 

Sorry....

 

Thanks for that post, it has blown my mind how many posters are wondering if they can salvage the ship. Who cares? As you said, there are so many people missing, injured and dead...that's what is important IMHO.

 

Lynda

[caribill]

No, ships have up to 24 hours after it's orginal sail to do the drill.

 

But in one news article:

 

"No one counted us, neither in the life boats or on land," said Ophelie Gondelle, 28, a French military officer from Marseille. She said there had been no evacuation drill since she boarded in France on Jan. 8.

[alwayshappytocruise]

Sorry that I ask again - but does anyone now whether the ship will be salvaged or rescued or does it sink now? :(

 

 

 

I have to ask you...why do you care? What is so important about salvaging the ship only one day after she has gone aground? People are missing, dead, injured and many that are alive will have continuing nightmares for a long time to come.

 

Lynda

[Donder1]

Well, like others have said, I too feel for the cruisers, staff and their families who are experiencing so much grief, worry and saddness.

 

I am shocked to hear that some travelers may not have had a muster drill. Hard to believe that can happen, if true.

 

Lastly, given the size of this ship and the fuel carried, this is a real ecological disaster. I hope that after all of the human concerns are addressed, that Carnival Corp will clean this mess up. One poster said,

" If the ship is declared a total loss then it is likely that she will be left in place, the fuel and any other salvagable items will be removed and she will be left to rust away." I am not sure of his/her qualifications to say this, but I seriously doubt that this will be the case given the issues of the environment and the safety of future curiosity seekers.

[alwayshappytocruise]

As I watch with horror at the events in Italy, a few thoughts came to mind...

 

I always wonder, as I stand with everyone else on the deck for the muster drill, what these smiling, relaxed crew members would be like in an actual emergency. No one can predict what they would be like in a real evacuation, even trained crew members. But as I am seeing early reports of passengers telling of less than stellar help from the crew, I have no doubt we will hear of stories of crew members going well above the call of duty to help passengers in crisis.

 

And second, while I am thinking and praying of all those who lost their lives and were injured, I also find myself thinking of the captain of the ship. Having met a few on our previous cruises, I have no doubt this captain, like all masters of ships this size, takes the lives of his passengers and crew very seriously. Although the details are not yet known, it seems to me he was perhaps trying to bring a damaged ship to port or at least closer to port where rescue would be easier. I think we will never know how many countless lives may have been lost had he done otherwise. I have no doubt that this captain will be traumatized for the rest of his life having been responsible for the loss of even just one life. I am praying for him and all those who were affected by this tragedy.

 

 

Once again, wish there was a "LIKE" button...great post.

 

Lynda

[BarryandJacquelyn]

I agree with a previous post. Hubby and I take the mustard drills EXTREMELY serious. It's very unsettling to hear fellow cruisers complain, they have to stand and listen to a short safety drill. I heard that Carnival may not continue these kinds of drills in the future, due to all the complaning.

 

On another note, we recently cruised the RC "Oasis of the Seas',( over 6000 people) and they do not place life jackets in the cabins! We all had to gather in different rooms, for example, the large show entertainment theater. If an accident occured, all 1000 or more people that was assigned to meet in that mustard station, would have to gather in this location during the accident and the staff would hand out life jackets. Can you imagine that situation!!! It wouldn't be possible getting life jackets out to that many people during a moment like that. We will not travel on RC again and other reasons.Safety first!

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Frankly, I wouldn't get into a lifeboat if my husband couldn't be with me. Times have changed for the better...I can completely understand a man not wanting to leave his wife and children.

Im sorry but I still believe it to be 'women and children' first, especially if this had occurred out at sea and not close in, there may well have been a shortage of useable lifeboats and thus this need. If my partner had refused I would have picked her up and thrown her in. Me, I would take my chance in the inflatable ones, knowing that once inflated I could swim to them. I could do that knowing that my partner was safe as she is not a good swimmer and its less for me to worry about.

 

You listen to any 'ship disaster' story they all go on about lifeboats and tend to forget about the inflatable ones, they might be uncomfortable but at least they save lifes.

 

 

rgds

[kruzerci]

I have to ask you...why do you care? What is so important about salvaging the ship only one day after she has gone aground? People are missing, dead, injured and many that are alive will have continuing nightmares for a long time to come.

 

Lynda

 

No reason to be nasty... I'm sure he is just as concerned about the missing and dead as the rest of us, he was just asking a question! A reasonable question at that.

 

The news is just butchering this story. Every report contradicts the one before it.

[Loonbeam]

The short and confusing answer is generally yes, but no. Seismological and Geological shifts as well as erosion can cause larger formations to break off and shift position. Sonar will detect these but often times not fast enough to do any good, and even if you detect one, avoiding it or attempting to can take you into the path of another. This is not common in shallower waters (more likely in the Ring of Fire) but it can happen at any time. Whether it did here, who knows.

 

With that it mind, let me point out there are three things we know factually. The ship is aground with a hull breach and up to 8 people (reports very 3 is confirmed) have died with bodies recovered, and the vast majority and passengers got off the ship safely. That's it. Anything else is speculation including as to how and when the breach occurred, what the captain was or was not thinking, what efforts were taken to right the ship, etc. It will be days/weeks/months before that is known definitively. (As an example, there was a crash between a tug boat and a tour boat in Phila where 2 people died. There were a total of 30 people involved and it still took 3 months to sort out the information and a year to get a report).

 

It will be at least a month before a salvage decision is made although environmental remediation will start as soon as possible. Like when you total your car, the decision will be made by the insurer and lienholder, with Costa Cruises advising of intent.

 

With that said, a couple of my thoughts:

 

1> Given the apparent size of the visible damage alone, if this incident ends up with less than 50 fatalities, I will consider it to be if not a miracle a very favorable outcome. Despite reports of problems, 4200 or so people were evacuated off the ship with mostly minor or no injuries and at least one of the deaths was reported to be someone who jumped off the ship and tried to swim (never a good idea for many reasons)

 

2> I've heard reports it was 'lucky' they were near the island. Depending on where the incident started, those shallow waters may have caused the incident, which brings up a key point. Incidents like this one are NOT likely in deeper waters for fairly obvious reasons.

 

3> The Italian coast Guard and the Island of Giglio are not getting enough credit. An island with 1850 residents mobilized to take in 4200 people, some being put up in private houses. And Coast Guard officers lowered themselves onto the ships to assist in the evacuation.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, it appears that the well known rocks were 74 metres away from where they should have been, according to the charts.

 

Louis Cruise Lines commissioned a survey after the accident, which claims that the reef, which the Sea Diamond struck, is in fact lying at 131 meters from shore and not at a distance of 57 meters as is incorrectly marked on the nautical chart. The official chart also shows the depth of the water at the area of impact varying from 18–22 meters, whilst the recent survey shows that it is only 5 meters.

 

The question that needs asking is... are the charts being used by all cruise ships, perfectly accurate?

[Capricruiser]

The La Repubblica is reporting that the dead are two French passengers and a Peruvian crewman. It seems all three drowned.

[geocruiser]

I just saw the interview with the Italian Coast Guard spokesman Paolillo who said the distress call was received from the Concordia right after it hit the rock, and rescue operations were initiated. Link: http://video.repubblica.it/edizione/firenze/tutto-e-cominciato-da-una-falla/85717/84106

 

Thanks,

 

Then the news here is wrong on that.

[Jo-Bob]

Since we're all in agreement just how vitally important and valuable the 'muster' drills are, let's take a moment to show our respect to shipboard safety and the entire process by calling it by it's proper term: Muster. Please, hearing it referred to as 'mustard drill' and 'mustard station' is disrespectful.

[CruiseAdict218]

I wonder if any surrounding ships where notified?

[dmwnc1959]

I have to ask you...why do you care? What is so important about salvaging the ship only one day after she has gone aground? People are missing, dead, injured and many that are alive will have continuing nightmares for a long time to come.

 

Lynda

 

No reason to be nasty... I'm sure he is just as concerned about the missing and dead as the rest of us, he was just asking a question! A reasonable question at that.

 

The news is just butchering this story. Every report contradicts the one before it.

 

Agreed, no reason to shoot down any post that isn't completely 100% just about the welfare of the passengers. They have for the most part been evacuated from the ship and are being taken care of by the local authorities, residents, and hopefully the cruise line. Despite the stories of disorganization the biggest majority are safe and ashore. Out of over 4300 people there are still a very few passengers unaccounted for. All we can do is pray for their safety and armchair quarterback our theories as to what happened, and ask reasonable questions about what process comes next.