Tipping

[catr13]

With cruises out of Australia (specifically talking about the Oosterdam) is tipping expected?

[Krazy Kruizers]

For the ship: HAL automatically adds a Hotel Service Charge onto your account. It is $11.50 or $12 per person per day depending on your cabin category. It is up to you if you wish to give anything extra to any crew member at the end of the cruise.

There is a thread about tipping in Australia and New Zealand here:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1735963

[richarduk]

You can also opt out of tipping if you want and do it on your own. I don't think the staff always get the tips we pay for upfront. Personally I know it's easy but I see it as a bit of a con.

[Globaliser]

You can also opt out of tipping if you want and do it on your own. I don't think the staff always get the tips we pay for upfront.

If you opt out of the service charge, the crew won't "get the tips" either, because:-

• If you pay the service charge, the money goes into the pool and is shared out amongst all the crew in a way agreed with the crew's union.
• If you opt out of the service charge, any money that you tip to any inidividual crew member goes into the pool and is shared out amongst all the crew in the same way.

So there's no advantage to you of opting out and tipping separately, other than to tip less than the amount of the service charge.

 

If you want specific crew members to keep the money you tip them, leave the service charge in place and then tip extra. They are allowed to keep that money. And some of the crew are well worth that extra tip.

[RuthC]

I don't think the staff always get the tips we pay for upfront.

That's a very serious charge. Do you have any anecdotal evidence to support that?

Since there is a union contract that covers the distribution of the Hotel Service Charge, why wouldn't the union be taking up the cause if that service charge weren't being distributed as agreed upon?

[Krazy Kruizers]

You can also opt out of tipping if you want and do it on your own. I don't think the staff always get the tips we pay for upfront. Personally I know it's easy but I see it as a bit of a con.

 

Wrong -- the crew belong to unions and you can bet that if one of them didn't get their fair share that is due them -- the boss of the union would be finding out why.

[CruiserBruce]

You can also opt out of tipping if you want and do it on your own. I don't think the staff always get the tips we pay for upfront. Personally I know it's easy but I see it as a bit of a con.

 

I smell popcorn!!:p;)

[innlady1]

I smell popcorn!!:p;)

 

LOL! So do I. ;)

[PathfinderEss]

I smell popcorn!!:p;)

Just a small one..........:D

[richarduk]

There was a documentary here in the UK a while ago that suggested that there was strong evidence that this does occur with some lines. Just saying. Don't shoot the messenger! What I do believe though is that why should you tip someone that has clearly done nothing for you? That's bound to happen and makes no sense to me. I bet if it was suggested that cruise companies just pay a fair wage instead of a pittance, you may find that all of a sudden the largely Asian crews may not be as prevalent as they are now. The cruise companies are bothered about "a degree" of good service, but of course I am sure they are far more bothered about their profits:rolleyes:

[dakrewser]

There was a documentary here in the UK a while ago that suggested that there was strong evidence that this does occur with some lines. Just saying. Don't shoot the messenger! What I do believe though is that why should you tip someone that has clearly done nothing for you? That's bound to happen and makes no sense to me. I bet if it was suggested that cruise companies just pay a fair wage instead of a pittance, you may find that all of a sudden the largely Asian crews may not be as prevalent as they are now. The cruise companies are bothered about "a degree" of good service, but of course I am sure they are far more bothered about their profits:rolleyes:

 

Any details of this "documentary"?

 

Do you eat in restaurants? Are you aware that restaurant servers share their tips with kitchen staff? Do you believe kitchen staff "has clearly done nothing for you? " Same on boats - lots of people you never see are doing things that help the people that help you...

[Bluwater7]

Any details of this "documentary"?

 

Do you eat in restaurants? Are you aware that restaurant servers share their tips with kitchen staff? Do you believe kitchen staff "has clearly done nothing for you? " Same on boats - lots of people you never see are doing things that help the people that help you...

 

 

Agree with you 100% - just because you don`t see them does not mean that did not contribute to your cruise service.

 

Stop and figure out how much you would have to tip separately for all the service you get ... breakfast, lunch, dinner, drinks, and probably more areas than this. I think the 11.50 or 12.00 per person is really pretty fair. :)

[richarduk]

I think you have misunderstood my main point. I'd be happier if they just paid ALL of them a decent wage and forgot about automatic tips. Then you could tip people as and when for very good service. Just my opinion. Yes, not everyone would get tips, but people working in the service industry on land don't expect to get tips that servers get for example. Why should it be any diferent at sea. More popcorn anyone?

[Typhoon1]

If a crew member has provided exceptional service, he/she deserves additional compensation.

[rallydave]

That's a very serious charge. Do you have any anecdotal evidence to support that?

Since there is a union contract that covers the distribution of the Hotel Service Charge, why wouldn't the union be taking up the cause if that service charge weren't being distributed as agreed upon?

 

nevermind

[sassy~one]

If you opt out of the service charge, the crew won't "get the tips" either, because:-

• If you pay the service charge, the money goes into the pool and is shared out amongst all the crew in a way agreed with the crew's union.
• If you opt out of the service charge, any money that you tip to any inidividual crew member goes into the pool and is shared out amongst all the crew in the same way.

So there's no advantage to you of opting out and tipping separately, other than to tip less than the amount of the service charge.

 

If you want specific crew members to keep the money you tip them, leave the service charge in place and then tip extra. They are allowed to keep that money. And some of the crew are well worth that extra tip.

 

PLEASE NO craby people.:D

 

I just returned from a 14 night Panama Canal cruise. I removed my auto tips. I DID TIP my cabin st. and 4 Lido people. They were the people that helped me the most! ( Only 1 dinner in the main dineing room, service was soooo slow ) HOW can this 'tip' money be taken from the people i did tip? Thats not sounding fair to me.

 

Please folks, no popcorn jokes, i'm just not understand. Thanks sassy

 

PS many removed the auto tips, i listened and watched others. :o

[OHCruiser]

If you opt out of the service charge, the crew won't "get the tips" either, because:-

• If you pay the service charge, the money goes into the pool and is shared out amongst all the crew in a way agreed with the crew's union.
  
• If you opt out of the service charge, any money that you tip to any inidividual crew member goes into the pool and is shared out amongst all the crew in the same way.
  

So there's no advantage to you of opting out and tipping separately, other than to tip less than the amount of the service charge.

If you want specific crew members to keep the money you tip them, leave the service charge in place and then tip extra. They are allowed to keep that money. And some of the crew are well worth that extra tip.

 

I've added the bold and the underlining. This is what makes sense and what works.

 

Why keep "tipping" in place? Well, it's a well supported psychological principle--a form of intermittent reinforcement tied (hopefully) directly to performance. It's designed to keep service personnel on their toes, never knowing which guest will provide the reward.

 

The daily "service charge" is a form of tipping because it can be removed. The assumption would be that if service is poor, the pool would decrease, the crew would feel the pinch and step up their game.

 

Now the idea that the crew--and I'd think that this would only matter with cabin stewards and MDR stewards for fixed diners-- somehow KNOWS who removes the service charge is very interesting................I can see it breaking both ways--working extra hard to try to get a personalized gratuity at the end of the cruise OR feeling that the customer is a self-declared deadbeat and writing them off....if it varied a lot, it would still work as an intermittent reinforcement schedule.

 

I'm intrigued by the idea that a crew member is obligated to share a personal tip if the the cruiser has opted out of the service charge. That's a high bar of honesty. People would only do it if they felt that it was good for them and not just good for the group. It requires a lot of trust within the group--and a pretty severe punishment must be in place for violators.

 

We pay the service charge and give a personal tip to our room steward. If we have consistent MDR staff, we also give them a tip. In the scheme of things, an extra $100-150 on a 7 day cruise just means that I put the slot machines in the casino on a starvation diet......

[RuthC]

I removed my auto tips. I DID TIP my cabin st. and 4 Lido people. They were the people that helped me the most! HOW can this 'tip' money be taken from the people i did tip? Thats not sounding fair to me.

The "HOW" is that those who were given a cash tip by you turned it in when they were given the list of those who had removed the service charge from their account.

The "fair" is in the Union contract that provides for this. This is what HAL and the workers have agreed to. It is not our place to second-guess them.

 

For those who wonder about the honesty of the workers to follow the contract provisions, remember they live in very close quarters. It's going to be hard to keep that kind of secret very long. Add in that they know the action is immediate loss of their job if they are caught not turning in cash tips that should have been turned in, and there is strong motivation to do what is right.

[delgados129]

I think you have misunderstood my main point. I'd be happier if they just paid ALL of them a decent wage and forgot about automatic tips. Then you could tip people as and when for very good service. Just my opinion. Yes, not everyone would get tips, but people working in the service industry on land don't expect to get tips that servers get for example. Why should it be any diferent at sea. More popcorn anyone?

 

This issue has been studied in economics and the research provides a lot of food for thought.

 

From 'Tipping: The Economics of a Social Norm':

 

..Most economic transactions involve the exchange of goods, services, and money, between two or more parties. It is usually clear to all parties what they are entitled to receive in the transaction, and what they are obligated to give. Tipping, while still being an exchange of services for money, is less clear about the obligations of the parties. There is no explicit contract between the consumer, the worker, and the employer about the tip to be given...

 

...Conlin, Lynn, and O'Donoghue (2002) analyze the case of restaurant tipping (their analysis is applicable also to other forms of reward-tipping, however) and suggest that if efficiency requires the server to exert some effort, the server must have an incentive to exert this effort. While a service contract can provide this incentive, writing such contract between the customer and the server involves prohibitive transaction costs. Therefore, tipping serves as a substitute that economizes these transaction costs...

[sassy~one]

Are Our tips used to substantiate poor wages? I guess no matter how much 'fussing' goes on, good and angry posts, i still believe its my money, and i shall tip as i see fit.

 

If my envelope tips went into a 'pot' that will discourage me from tipping at all. And that is NOT fair to those that did the most for me.

 

I've got to stay away from these boards for a bit.

 

: ) Thanks everyone who shared with an open heart.

[cruz chic]

 

If my envelope tips went into a 'pot' that will discourage me from tipping at all. And that is NOT fair to those that did the most for me.

 

.

Really,wow! Why not just leave the HSC in place?

[Globaliser]

I'd be happier if they just paid ALL of them a decent wage and forgot about automatic tips. Then you could tip people as and when for very good service.

You'll find a lot of people with you on this. Including me.

 

But it's not going to happen, because a large part of the passenger base of most mainstream cruise ships are American. And tipping is deeply ingrained into American culture. So much so that I was (just last week) accused here of shirking my "obligation" to tip extra to people who would already be getting paid through the tip pool. And so much so that there are many infrequent American travellers who, when put into a true "no tipping" culture like New Zealand continue to feel uncomfortable at the idea of not throwing extra money at people who are being properly paid for the jobs that they do and who might even be offended at being offered a tip.

 

The system of a compulsory service charge (or compulsory tip) goes a long way towards a workable compromise, IMHO. Those who want to tip can regard it as compulsory tipping. And we can all rest assured that once we've paid the daily charge, we have done our minimum tipping requirement. Any further tips can genuinely be "as and when for very good service".

[Globaliser]

i still believe its my money, and i shall tip as i see fit.

You're free to do so.

 

Just so long as you don't delude yourself into thinking that the people you give the money to will be able to keep it, or that there's any point in you doing it like this.

 

Of course, if you really want you're free to delude yourself about that, too.

[Globaliser]

This issue has been studied in economics and the research provides a lot of food for thought.

 

From 'Tipping: The Economics of a Social Norm':

..Most economic transactions involve the exchange of goods, services, and money, between two or more parties. It is usually clear to all parties what they are entitled to receive in the transaction, and what they are obligated to give. Tipping, while still being an exchange of services for money, is less clear about the obligations of the parties. There is no explicit contract between the consumer, the worker, and the employer about the tip to be given...

 

...Conlin, Lynn, and O'Donoghue (2002) analyze the case of restaurant tipping (their analysis is applicable also to other forms of reward-tipping, however) and suggest that if efficiency requires the server to exert some effort, the server must have an incentive to exert this effort. While a service contract can provide this incentive, writing such contract between the customer and the server involves prohibitive transaction costs. Therefore, tipping serves as a substitute that economizes these transaction costs...

All very interesting, but it doesn't explain why you can get some of the world's best customer service in places where tipping is neither expected nor given.

[HamOp]

I do not remove the hotel service charge, but in all of these hot button tipping threads something has always bothered me.

 

I'm guessing that most people who remove the HSC do so on the last night of the cruise or first thing on the last morning on board.

 

In order for the room steward to turn in cash tips received from those who removed the HSC, he would have to keep any and all cash tips separated by room number pending notification of who did and did not leave the auto tip in place.

 

And what about the Lido server who got a cash tip? He might very well not even know the name or room number of the tipper.

 

Anyone know the answer to this?