More trouble for gays in Russia

[SakeDad]

For those who thought there may be little effect from the laws banning homosexual activity in Russia take a look at this, http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/18/world/europe/gay-rights-rally-is-attacked-in-georgia.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0 . It might make you re-think visiting Russia on gay Baltic cruises.:( And this was led by PRIESTS!!!

[skf]

The story is about Georgia, which left the USSR years ago & is no longer Russian.

[eddiffin]

While the story is about Georgia, there were also violent anti-gay protests in St. Petersburg this week: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05-17/news/sns-rt-us-georgia-gays-russiabre94g0s7-20130517_1_equal-rights-tblisi-georgia

[Eriksgarden]

We were thinking of doing a cruise including St. Petersburg until we learned how hateful Russia is toward LGBT people. We will NOT be spending our time and money there. So many beautiful places on Earth to visit!

[Bramcruiser]

We were thinking of doing a cruise including St. Petersburg until we learned how hateful Russia is toward LGBT people. We will NOT be spending our time and money there. So many beautiful places on Earth to visit!

 

 

If this was Facebook I'd be liking this a hundred times over. Sure, the history of St. Petersburg is fascinating and so is its history but................hate is hate. Life is short and there are so many other places in the world.

[ONT-CA]

No one can argue with one’s principles in refusing to travel to a country because of its stance on many and various issues. It is not surprising that some of us will avoid Russian because of the positions held by their citizens and leaders. Personally we will not travel to Jamaica for this reason but on the grounds of the heinous murders of gay Jamaicans by their countrymen with little intervention by the authorities. One’s personal safety cannot be disregarded in this equation.

One could hardly compare the situation in Russia with that of Jamaica. And unless one goes to Russia to take part in a political demonstration, safety should not be an issue. As it is our choices in personal travel that determines a balance, we would have to evaluate the benefits of traveling to those locations that do not pose a safety issue and offer a wealth of experiences and pleasure. That is not to say that we agree with the political stance of the host country for if we did so we would never visit many parts of the European Union let alone many U.S. states. But the value of culture treasure to be seen and experienced is such that there are times and places where one must hold their nose and venture on.

[Eriksgarden]

Absolutely, one can, and SHOULD, compare Russia to Jamaica. Hate is Hate. And that is not what vacation is about to us. In fact, we are planning a trip to Vietnam. Vietnam is poised to celebrate Marriage Equality. That is the kind of country I want to spend time and money in.

[ONT-CA]

We are free to travel wherever it is permitted and we have been to Vietnam on two occasions. Not to get too far off subject but the statement of hate is hate has to be balanced with the knowledge of casualties suffered during the conflict between Vietnam and the U.S.; 1,100,000 North Vietnam citizens, 250,000 South Vietnam citizens with 58,000 U.S. citizens. Hate is hate, indeed

[Turtles06]

The latest from Russia. :mad:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-lawmakers-pass-anti-gay-bill-436-0-164959267.html

[AnonymousCruiser69]

The latest from Russia. :mad:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-lawmakers-pass-anti-gay-bill-436-0-164959267.html

 

shame on russia. i'll be doing no traveling there.

[ONT-CA]

Oh the dilemma.

While personal abstinence from travel to Russia would perhaps deprive the Russian treasury of one-one trillionth of a percentage point of annual revenue, you will deprive yourself of an experience of a wealth of human art and treasure the likes of which you will not see in your lifetime anywhere else in the world. I liken this situation to be that of an atheist entering a Roman Catholic Cathedral and the emotional tug-of-war in not being in awe of the beauty therein.

[Turtles06]

Oh the dilemma.

 

While personal abstinence from travel to Russia would perhaps deprive the Russian treasury of one-one trillionth of a percentage point of annual revenue, you will deprive yourself of an experience of a wealth of human art and treasure the likes of which you will not see in your lifetime anywhere else in the world. I liken this situation to be that of an atheist entering a Roman Catholic Cathedral and the emotional tug-of-war in not being in awe of the beauty therein.

 

 

Your analogy is not even remotely apt. Neither a Roman Catholic cathedral nor the Catholic Church is making war on atheists; the Catholic Church is not a government, it's not encouraging people to beat up atheists, it's not saying they are less than human; the list of distinctions can go on an on.

 

The dilemma about travel to Russia for gay people is a real one for many. It's not about whether withholding our dollars will have an impact on the Russian treasury, it's about whether we want to go to someplace where so much hate against us is being fomented. And as someone who has booked a Baltics cruise for next year, with St. Petersburg being high on the list of places my partner and I really want to visit, today's news was sickening.

[Bramcruiser]

If this was Facebook I'd be liking this a hundred times over. Sure, the history of St. Petersburg is fascinating and so is its history but................hate is hate. Life is short and there are so many other places in the world.

 

 

I have to agree. Russia's recent ban on "gay propaganda" is just sickening. Its an excuse to protect mother Russia from anything not considered the traditional family. You simply cannot ban people from being who they are. I'm sickened by the constant stupidity of people.

 

I'll spend my money where I want to and Russia is currently not on the list. I guess a Baltic cruise will not be in the future for me.

[jamessemaj]

Your analogy is not even remotely apt. Neither a Roman Catholic cathedral nor the Catholic Church is making war on atheists; the Catholic Church is not a government, it's not encouraging people to beat up atheists, it's not saying they are less than human; the list of distinctions can go on an on.

 

The dilemma about travel to Russia for gay people is a real one for many. It's not about whether withholding our dollars will have an impact on the Russian treasury, it's about whether we want to go to someplace where so much hate against us is being fomented. And as someone who has booked a Baltics cruise for next year, with St. Petersburg being high on the list of places my partner and I really want to visit, today's news was sickening.

 

Actually, the Roman Catholic Church does wage war on atheists and gays as well, and does implicitly encourage violence. I agree with ONT-CA on the matter of visiting Russia, and find the defense of Catholicism in comparison to be somewhat bizarre. BTW there was a legion of Catholic priests at the Battle of Stalingrad, sent by Rome with the Italian forces to bring over Russian Orthodox Catholics to Roman Catholicism after their defeat, but the Russians stomped the Germans and Italians both.

[pxn748]

The U.S. needs to boycott the 2014 Olympics in protest!

[ONT-CA]

... And as someone who has booked a Baltics cruise for next year, with St. Petersburg being high on the list of places my partner and I really want to visit, today's news was sickening.

 

Hence the dilemma. We found Russia, as did Winston Churchill, “…a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma…” One might say that as far as understanding and accepting homosexuality they are living in an era not unlike when through the 20th century, the gradual liberalization of American sexual mores led to the elimination of sodomy laws in most states. During this time, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of sodomy laws. However, in 2003 the Supreme Court reversed the decision with, invalidating sodomy laws in the remaining 14 states. Things can change, things do change and things will change. Remember, their situation is one of the decloration and publication of homosexuality, aka Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, and not actually one of being gay. When we visited Russian we stood openly proud of who and what we are. We received no detrimental treatment.

My apology if my analogy of the Catholic Church offended anyone as I was drawing upon the magnificent art exhibited within the Church. Perhaps I may have better used as an example our visit to Washington when we stood in total awe before the original document of the Constitution Of The United States Of America

[keithm]

The U.S. needs to boycott the 2014 Olympics in protest!

Oh please! Not that crap again! I don't like "shafting" our athletes(who worked their butts off training!) just because you/someone else has an issue with Russia's stupid laws. Just don't go to Russia on a cruise or other vacation.

[keithm]

Hence the dilemma. We found Russia, as did Winston Churchill, “…a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma…” One might say that as far as understanding and accepting homosexuality they are living in an era not unlike when through the 20th century, the gradual liberalization of American sexual mores led to the elimination of sodomy laws in most states. During this time, the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of sodomy laws. However, in 2003 the Supreme Court reversed the decision with, invalidating sodomy laws in the remaining 14 states. Things can change, things do change and things will change. Remember, their situation is one of the decloration and publication of homosexuality, aka Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, and not actually one of being gay. When we visited Russian we stood openly proud of who and what we are. We received no detrimental treatment.

My apology if my analogy of the Catholic Church offended anyone as I was drawing upon the magnificent art exhibited within the Church. Perhaps I may have better used as an example our visit to Washington when we stood in total awe before the original document of the Constitution Of The United States Of America

I just wish people wouldn't ridicule others so much about their opinions. I simply won't spend my money in that country or any other that promotes hatred of gays.That being said it's each person's personal opinion on how to handle this, without resorting to the namecalling.

[pxn748]

I just wish people wouldn't ridicule others so much about their opinions. I simply won't spend my money in that country or any other that promotes hatred of gays.That being said it's each person's personal opinion on how to handle this, without resorting to the namecalling.

 

You're a fine one to talk about ridiculing someone's opinion. Didn't you just do that to me? And which is more important basic human rights or athletics?

[keithm]

You're a fine one to talk about ridiculing someone's opinion. Didn't you just do that to me? And which is more important basic human rights or athletics?

I vote for the athletes. Sorry, but I get sick & tired of those who would censor/boycott others opinions/beliefs. I didn't ridicule you by person. If you don't want to deal with the society that offends, by all means don't. Just don't tell others what they should/shouldn't

do.If someone wants to visit a place you/or me feel is repugnant, well that's their choice. If they get into trouble there, well that's their fault.(such as those 2 dopes in Diminica sometime ago)

[6andy6]

nor the Catholic Church is making war on atheists; the Catholic Church is not a government, it's not encouraging people to beat up atheists, it's not saying they are less than human; the list of distinctions can go on an on. .

 

Oh please...what planet are you really living on.......:rolleyes:

 

Get out and smell the roses...that is exactly not only is what its doing, it is pressuring (or trying to) or outright black mailing them with threats of votes many governments when they try to amend or get rid of anti gay legislation.

[TxnAquarian]

I take no issue with visiting Russia. My partner and I are booked on a Black Sea cruise with an overnight in Sochi, Russia. I look forward to visiting and adding this to our growing list of exotic destinations. No, I don't agree with Russia's backwards thinking or encouragement of anti-gay violence. But if I avoided places who's governments I don't agree with, we wouldn't have gone on the fabulous Crystal cruise that we did that called at a port in Iran or the Regent cruise we did that visited several ports in China. I don't look at spending my money in these countries as supporting communist regimes or homophobic governments....I look at it as getting to see places most of my friends have never heard of and creating amazing memories. Life is short, I just want to travel ;)

 

 

 

Michael