Poll: Should river cruise lines cancel voyages?

[Cruzin Terri]

I would like the option to either cancel for a full refund or postpone my cruise until another time. I really am not interested in going at a time when I will be subject to alternative itineraries and possibly long bus trips.

 

I think that it will take quite a while for these places to recover from the floods. Anyone expecting that all will be back to normal within a week or two is not being realistic.

Terri

[Particulartourist]

We are scheduled to depart NY on Saturday for the AMA PRIMA Legendary Danube river cruise. Due to severe flooding and devastation in this area, As well as sewage in the river, Viking, Tauck,APT,, Uniworld, and Grand Circle have ALL cancelled their river cruises to these destinations. Not only hasn't AMA canceled, but they wish to penalize us for rescheduling this cruise for later on in the summer. This is disgraceful! Spoke with them at length and they are unwilling to budge........IS ANYONE ELSE GOING ON THE AMA PRIMA LEGENDARY DANUBE TRIP NEXT WEEK??

[jmomma]

Carolyn,

 

Interesting poll and thoughts of posters. If cruise line cancels, then we should be able to get money back. If they say for next 2months there will be bussing not sailing, then pax should be able to cancel with full refund. Don't know of anyone who would say I'll take the bus.

This is a very emotional issue with all the devastation and more rain predicted. Most of us have to travel by air to get to a European river cruise, so it is a great investment of time, effort and money. Hopefully the business end of the cruise line doesn't win out. Pat

 

Hello again, Pacmom!

Jmomma (Joyce from London to Rome 2011 cruise) here. We're booked on Viking's June 16th river cruise and came upon your post. So sad what's going on in Europe.

But hope you and your family are well.

Joyce & Art

[pacmom]

Joyce, we are well--became great-grandparents ni March--he is a cutie and lives fairly close. We are getting ready to take a Road Scholar cruise on the Gironde out of Bordeaux--leave 2 weeks from today. Pat

[twinkletoes4445]

IMO, they should cancel. We always buy the "cancel for any reason" insurance, so we could get a refund on our airline tickets. If we wanted to do a bus tour, we could sign up for one. I do know that emergencies happen, and things change, and a river cruise could turn into a bus tour, but if they know in advance that the cruise will not take place on the river, I say cancel the cruise.

[Mark_T]

The next few weeks are going to be very illuminating as we find out who offers to cancel and who falls back on their 'force majeure' clause and runs a series of boat swaps and bus trips.

 

I have no doubt which I'd prefer as a customer, but if I put myself in the position of a cruise operator it does me no good to have a bunch of happy customers holding their refunds if I go out of business in the process, so I can see the motivation to avoid cancelling if at all possible.

[SeattleDA]

I appreciate Scenic finally putting out some information, but I am highly skeptical about any cruise line's ability to operate on the Danube for the next month or so at the very least. I am also concerned about the safety of trying to operate, considering the reports of debris and even raw sewage being dumped into the river at numerous locations between Nuremberg and Budapest.

[sailingmickey]

I too would prefer a full cash refund. I get motion sickness on buses and wear the patch on an ocean cruise. We choose cruising because we do not want to live out of a suitcase, as we would have to do if Avalon could not cruise the river and had to resort to bus travel.

[steamboats]

It´s a tough decision for the cruise lines. It would be sort of a last minute cancellation telling the people a day before they are supposed to leave that they won´t go. Most US river cruisers have booked air with the cruise line but those who haven´t are facing fees for rebooking or lose their money on the flights.

 

The main problem is that the water is rising as soon as it´s falling again. No one can tell for sure when the rivers will be opened for navigation again. So how far in advance should a cruise line canel right now? One week, two weeks? Actually this situation might last on for a couple of days. But let´s say Saturday in a week the river levels might be back to normal again.

 

Back in 2005 the captain kept us informing every hour about the situation until there was a point to make an decision and tell us we will be bussed back from Vienna to Passau. But up to that decision it was sort of "the forecast is that within an hour the river has dropped so far that we can pass this low bridge".

 

Sure those who were already on a ship when it started to rain had their cruise turned into a bus trip. So cancelling the next cruise is a good decision as it was more or less clear that this situation will last on for a couple of days. But how about the cruise after? No one can tell right now whether the ships can go or not.

 

BTW currently the levels in Austria are falling while Bratislava and Budapest are still on the rise.

 

steamboats

[Realtor at Sea]

The devastation is so great I think tourists would simply be a great inconvenience in the towns effected. I know these towns and cities depend on tourism to boost the economy, but are the flooded areas able to welcome tourists currently? They are probably very busy trying to dry out, disinfect and getting basic services restored to their area. With the metro down in Prague, raw sewage in the rivers and streets and electricity off in Passau I would feel uncomfortable and basically " in the way " of the cleanup as a visitor. JMHO

[Mark_T]

I know these towns and cities depend on tourism to boost the economy, but are the flooded areas able to welcome tourists currently?

 

Will they be at their best? Obviously not.

 

Would they want you to leave them alone until they are? Definitely not.

 

If tourists stop visiting, the effects of the flood just keep on going, they need the income more now if anything than they did before.

[cruzemaven]

Just curious... Are the Riverboat companies insured for loss of revenues incurred by natatural disasters. If they have to cancel, let's say a month of cruises, will they be reimbursed by their insurance companies?

[Live4cruises]

Just curious... Are the Riverboat companies insured for loss of revenues incurred by natatural disasters. If they have to cancel, let's say a month of cruises, will they be reimbursed by their insurance companies?

 

I expect THAT is the question that is causing cruise companies' PR folks to hem and haw while their risk managers try to sort it out with their casualty insurance holders. The million dollar question.

[pully8]

The devastation is so great I think tourists would simply be a great inconvenience in the towns effected. I know these towns and cities depend on tourism to boost the economy, but are the flooded areas able to welcome tourists currently? They are probably very busy trying to dry out, disinfect and getting basic services restored to their area. With the metro down in Prague, raw sewage in the rivers and streets and electricity off in Passau I would feel uncomfortable and basically " in the way " of the cleanup as a visitor. JMHO

agree with this post. even when the rivers go down or stabilise the damage will be profound. no one paid for a disaster cruise.

there will be issues around safety as well as inconvenience. tourism is important to these areas but to take people to these areas at present is irresponsible. doubt an ethical company would expose their customers/assets/staff to the conditions.

humanitarian aid is required not tourists.

[MURPHY27]

book airfare separate from the cruise, and also take out insurance independent of the cruise line. More money, but you control your vacation.

[remydiva]

We are scheduled to depart NY on Saturday for the AMA PRIMA Legendary Danube river cruise. Due to severe flooding and devastation in this area, As well as sewage in the river, Viking, Tauck,APT,, Uniworld, and Grand Circle have ALL cancelled their river cruises to these destinations. Not only hasn't AMA canceled, but they wish to penalize us for rescheduling this cruise for later on in the summer. This is disgraceful! Spoke with them at length and they are unwilling to budge........IS ANYONE ELSE GOING ON THE AMA PRIMA LEGENDARY DANUBE TRIP NEXT WEEK??

 

There are about a half dozen threads about the flooding so your question may not be read since this is a poll thread.

I suggest you start a new thread with the Title: Is anyone going on the AMA Prima Legendary Danube June ??

then it will stand out from the other flood threads for your fellow potential cruisemates to see.

[remydiva]

 

The bottom line is most of the folks that chose a cruise do so based on the cruise itinerary and their feeling about the cruise line they chose. When these expectations are met the customers are happy and book more cruises. When they are not met, they complain about the cruise on Cruise Critic and move their business to another cruise line.

 

 

 

I wrote a lovely long thougtful reply and CC timed out so I will cut to the chase.

Dukefan...you summed things up nicely.

 

Remember, any one can look good when things are going great; the true winners are those that excel in times of hardship and strife.

 

Vote with your money and reward those companies that are excelling in customer service and communication.

 

ps I know a little of the angst and worry those of you cruisers who have upcoming trips are feeling now. I went through similar worry before our New Years Danube cruise. The river was too high and the ships couldn't pass under the bridges. I posted here and was reassured by many of the same people who are online helping get the news out this time. Our cruise did happen but many many other ships were stuck for days in Regensburg and were bussed...check out older threads here titled 'Danube Frozen?'. Some people are still trying to get reimbursement.

[pingpong1]

JazzBeau -I am assuming that river cruise companies, just like all other large businesses with investors, have business insurance to protect themselves against unexpected losses. I can't imagine that any mainstream river cruise company would be operating on such a narrow margin that having to cancel a month's-worth of cruises due to flooding would put them out of business. What is more likely to put a company out of business would be for them to get a terrible reputation for treating their customers shabbily, charging passengers for services that weren't provided (no matter what "caused" it), and packing paying customers onto buses and farming them out to sub-standard/last-minute/second-rate hotels and feeding them less-than-promised meals. The flooding that is occuring is not the river cruise company's fault - but it's not the customer's fault, either! Who should rightly bear the cost if contracted services cannot be provided, through no fault of the individual customer? The absolute worst thing would be to find out that these companies actually "saved money/increased their revenues" due to lowered operating costs (not having to operate those boats, make those meals, or pour that wine) and at the same time, pocketing un-earned revenues by refusing to give passengers their money back!

[Mark_T]

JazzBeau -I am assuming that river cruise companies, just like all other large businesses with investors, have business insurance to protect themselves against unexpected losses.

 

Business interruption insurance is the usual way to protect against rare disasters, I have no idea though if any insurer would include cover for high water levels given the frequency with which they occur, and if they were willing to cover it I suspect the premiums would be prohibitive.

 

Insurance of this sort generally protects a business against the unexpected disasters, but not the normal hazards of doing business in a particular sector. Although this is an exceptional high water event, it is not exactly unusual to have similar lesser and more localized events each year.

 

Beyond that, the unavailability of specific destinations when others are available is unlikely to be covered either.

 

The flooding that is occuring is not the river cruise company's fault - but it's not the customer's fault, either!

 

A good working definition of 'force majeure' and why they put it in the contracts.

 

Who should rightly bear the cost if contracted services cannot be provided, through no fault of the individual customer?

 

... and no fault of the company either of course. The problem is how tightly you draw the definition of the services and what you consider to be reasonable in the circumstances?

 

If the only definition you accept is the cruise exactly as originally described then that just isn't going to happen for some weeks or even months and is probably unreasonable in the circumstances.

 

On the other hand, if the companies can interpret it as a collection of bus trips and hotels substituted when needed regardless of quality then that too is clearly unreasonable.

 

Hopefully most can meet somewhere in the middle.

 

The absolute worst thing would be to find out that these companies actually "saved money/increased their revenues" due to lowered operating costs (not having to operate those boats, make those meals, or pour that wine) and at the same time, pocketing un-earned revenues by refusing to give passengers their money back!

 

That I think is the least likely outcome from all of this. About the only saving they are going to be making is fuel but they are incurring mooring fees they would not usually suffer and all salaries will still have to be paid.

 

Paying hotels and others to provide food is never going to be as cheap as doing it themselves using the staff and facilities they are already paying for.

 

Coaches are not cheap either and you can bet that their rates are going up as everyone scrambles to make alternative arrangements.

 

Profiteering would be quite an achievement given all that is going on ...

[Baggywrinkle99]

If they do offer a refund in these exceptional circumstances then it should be a proper refund, NOT a credit as their current cancellation policies stipulate.

[TravelBugM]

The flooding in Europe is heart wrenching. The photos only give us a glimpse into what the people of the affected areas are enduring.

 

Feeling very selfish, I would want the option to cancel. We booked a river cruise to do just that, not ride a bus.

 

While we do want to support those areas with our tourist dollars, I would prefer, for the the immediate time anyway, that all resources focus on rebounding from the devastation.

 

Really does make one step back and realize the world is a very delicate creature.

 

Safe travels everyone.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

If they have to ...

[franski]

The problem is how tightly you draw the definition of the services and what you consider to be reasonable in the circumstances?

 

If the only definition you accept is the cruise exactly as originally described then that just isn't going to happen for some weeks or even months and is probably unreasonable in the circumstances.

 

...

 

You will always have people who are less than satisfied with the product they have purchased.... whether it be a vacation package on a river cruise, or a new appliance. Of course, with an appliance you always have a window of opportunity to return it and get a refund. The river cruise package is non-refundable - except in certain circumstances. This is in their brochures.....

 

So much is subjective about the experience.... the food, the wine, the weather, the CD, your travelling companions...:D How would you ever go about figuring out what is "appropriate compensation" if the experience isn't what you imagined??

 

I do think (and this is just my opinion here....) that most companies are going above and beyond from a compensation perspective. They didn't plan on the rain, and would be very happy to continue on down the rivers even if the weather was rotten. It must be a logistical nightmare to try to get people to *any* destination off the boat in that stretch of the Danube. If they have made the difficult decision to move people to a hotel and feed them in restaurants, they are "fighting" with other companies trying to do the same thing. And, then we (yet again) into the subjective areas of food, drink and accommodation.

 

The caveats about water levels, force majeur etc are all in the fine print for every company. Scenic makes you sign a waiver that you are aware of that before they complete your booking. If people are looking for an experience that never deviates from the published package, then perhaps river cruising has a level of risk that doesn't meet their vacation criteria.

 

To expect a company to compensate for water levels, extra time on buses, or "sub par" hotel rooms or food (when there is no realistic measure for these items....) just ends up causing the rest of us more money. The company would end up raising their prices to offset the payouts - especially if they were, as some suggest, to give money rather than a cruise credit.

 

I will be watching these boards - as I did when the volcano eruption impacted travel in Europe - to see how the companies react. But, I also realize that the people that post here represent only a small fraction of river cruise passengers.... and therefore am not sure if we are hearing from people representing "the masses", or those that would be unhappy in most circumstances.

 

Fran

[Particulartourist]

We are supposed to leave for Prague tomorrow to pick up AMA WATERWAYS LEGENDARY DANUBE RIVER CRUISE. I tried to reschedule, but they said I had to cancel, forfeit my insurance, rebook, and then repurchase insurance again! Is this typical of a company under these circumstances of flooding and canceling port stops? I am a frequent cruiser, but have no experience with circumstances such as this!

Thanks

[remydiva]

We are supposed to leave for Prague tomorrow to pick up AMA WATERWAYS LEGENDARY DANUBE RIVER CRUISE. I tried to reschedule, but they said I had to cancel, forfeit my insurance, rebook, and then repurchase insurance again! Is this typical of a company under these circumstances of flooding and canceling port stops? I am a frequent cruiser, but have no experience with circumstances such as this!

Thanks

 

CNN posted this:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/07/world/europe/europe-flood/?hpt=hp_t

most recent pics first

 

"The river is expected to peak near the border with Slovakia, in Nagybajcs, on Saturday morning and in the capital, Budapest, on Monday, according to the European Commission's emergency response center.

"In both areas, the highest-ever-measured water levels are expected," it said.

Hungary's Water Management Authority said a new record, 20 centimeters (nearly 8 inches) more than the previous high, had already been set at Nagybajcs as of midday Friday.

New all-time highs have also been recorded downriver at Komarom, it said.

The mayor of Budapest, Istvan Tarlos, said he expects a record of 895 centimeters (almost 30 feet) in the capital but he believes its flood defenses should keep the city safe with about a foot to spare"