RCCL to Jamaica-Grand Cayman...yes or no?

[C1ndyluhu]

Hi! I am hoping you can help me/give me some advice. I am an organizer of scrapbooking cruises and I have an instructor whom I would VERY MUCH like to bring onboard for my next cruise. This has been in the works for close to 2 years, however, we have already picked our destination, which is Jamaica/Grand Cayman, and he told me that could be problematic because the instructor is gay and will be bringing his partner with him. I VERY MUCH want this couple to join us on this cruise. They are really great guys (I've cruised with them before), and the instructor is SUPER talented and brings his own following. I know there are problems with these two destinations for homosexuals, is it really that bad? I have only been to Jamaica one other time and there was a lesbian couple on our shore excursion. I did not notice any problems with them, but then, I wasn't looking for any either. Is there anything I can say to this instructor that will ease his mind and/or convince him to join us?

[Turtles06]

Not sure what advice people can give you, OP, since you have your destination set, and it's to one of the most anti-gay places on earth.

 

Jamaica has been described by some human rights groups as the most homophobic place on Earth because of the high level of violent crime directed at LGBT people.[1] The United States Department of State said that in 2012, "[h]omophobia was widespread in the country".[2] The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights in 2012 said that "discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender identity, and gender expression is widespread throughout Jamaica, and ... discrimination against those in the lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, and intersex ... communities is entrenched in Jamaican State institutions. Those who are not heterosexual or cisgender face political and legal stigmatization, police violence, an inability to access the justice system, as well as intimidation, violence, and pressure in their homes and communities."[3]:page: 95 Human Rights Watch said in 2012 that because of homophobia, "human rights defenders advocating the rights of LGBT people are not safe in Jamaica".[4]

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Jamaica

[wripro]

Jamaica and Grand Cayman are the two most homophobic islands is the Caribbean. I urge everyone not to spend one penny there,

[Tomato53]

I didn't vote in your poll as I can't say for sure that they would have trouble there.

 

As for myself, I would not cruise on an itinerary that calls at either port.

Even if I didn't get off the ship, I would not want to give them revenue in the form of port fees.

[Boytjie]

Is there anything I can say to this instructor that will ease his mind and/or convince him to join us?

 

Other than you have changed the itinerary to go to ports where they would feel safe and comfortable? Nope, not much you can tell them. He told you already that it is problematic.

[mistereks]

It would certainly be a problem for me. I will NEVER go on a cruise that stops in Jamaica. Horrible, hateful place.

[COMBOY]

Hi! I am hoping you can help me/give me some advice. I am an organizer of scrapbooking cruises and I have an instructor whom I would VERY MUCH like to bring onboard for my next cruise. This has been in the works for close to 2 years, however, we have already picked our destination, which is Jamaica/Grand Cayman, and he told me that could be problematic because the instructor is gay and will be bringing his partner with him. I VERY MUCH want this couple to join us on this cruise. They are really great guys (I've cruised with them before), and the instructor is SUPER talented and brings his own following. I know there are problems with these two destinations for homosexuals, is it really that bad? I have only been to Jamaica one other time and there was a lesbian couple on our shore excursion. I did not notice any problems with them, but then, I wasn't looking for any either. Is there anything I can say to this instructor that will ease his mind and/or convince him to join us?

 

I've been to both Jamaica and Grand Cayman on cruises and land trips; however, this was several years ago and I never had any problems. There isn't anti-gay mobs wandering the streets looking to attack people. It's more like being as the wrong place at the wrong time. Jamaica is a poor third world country; it has beautiful beaches and lush tropical mountains and many luxury resorts and the people in general are friendly and have a "no problem mon" attitude. However, vendors can be down right pushy selling all type of stuff and it can be really annoying. In Grand Cayman you don't see as much poverty like Jamaican since it has a large rich onshore banking industry and upscale tourist industry so it's a much nicer place to visit. Almost all Caribbean islands are very religiously conservative and homosexuality is a big no-no. Jamaicans are particularly hostile toward gays, but they are more likely to want to sell you something vs attacking you if they think you're gay. I walked all around Montego Bay and no ever stared at me nor did I ever feel threaten. How would they know if your gay or not unless you're blatantly in their face about it. Sure, many gay folks will say don't go to Jamaica or Grand Cayman based on the island's homophobia and I agree with them in principle; but in reality as long as you stay in the tourist area or on a ship's organized shore tour you should not have any problems. Wandering off the beaten path or alone could be dangerous...and that could be for anyone whether you're gay or straight. Thousand of tourist visit Jamaica every year without incidence. Your friends can come on the cruise, but my recommendation is just to stay on board the ship and skip Jamaica; however, I see no major issues with Grand Cayman. Just use good common sense.

[keithm]

We did Cunard in 2006. we stopped at Jamaica & Grand Cayman along with Cozemel & Costa Maya(Loved Costa Maya)Though we saw no homophobia in Montego Bay. We had plenty of locals trying to seel drugs at every stop our tour bus did. I won't cancel a trip if it goes to Jamaica, I'll just stay on board for a "spa" day.

[storknurse13]

My partner and I have traveled to Jamaica and Grand Cayman on several cruises with our 3 children. We have never had any problems with anti-gay issues. Of course we are not fans of PDA so I think if your friends are conscious of there surroundings and aren't blatantly disrespectful I think they will be fine!

[pauleydm]

We have been to Ocho Rios, Jamaica and Grand Cayman. Did not have any issue at all. However, as a couple, we appear to just be two men who are traveling together...without the appearance of being a gay couple. If you are traveling in a group, there should not be any issue.:)

[satxdiver]

I have been to Jamaica twice on a cruise ship (RCCL) and both times stayed on the ship. What struck me the most was the number of pax who stayed on the ship and did not get off in these ports. I have stayed on the ship in ports I have been to many times like Cayman and the ship was all but a ghost farm. However on both visits to Jamaica it was almost like a sea day but we were in port.

 

I have been to Cayman many times and once spent a week on a SCUBA live-aboard with a gay diving group in the Caymans. They had chartered the boat so the crew knew who was aboard. We had no problems either before boarding (spent a night in the Caymans since I flew in the day before) and an afternoon wandering around waiting for my flight home. Others may have had problems there but I never have had.

[cruzeluver]

Been to both and no problems.

[mistereks]

Folks - just because plenty of gay folks have gone to Jamaica and experienced no problems doesn't mean we're doing the right thing by taking our money there.

 

Don't support hateful governments or violent environments - avoid Jamaica.

[cruzeluver]

We were in Falmouth this past April and did a private tour there. It was a terrific experience. In talking with our guide about the Jamaican government's and police attitude toward gay people, he stated that it makes him very sad that this is so, and he does not believe they represent the majority of Jamaicans. We were quite open about who we are and he provided us with a terrific day.

[wripro]

The issue to me is not whteher any one of us has had a specific problem while in Jamaica or Grand Cayman. The issue is that they persecute and harass gay people there and I will not give them one penny of my money.

[jcerst]

The issue to me is not whteher any one of us has had a specific problem while in Jamaica or Grand Cayman. The issue is that they persecute and harass gay people there and I will not give them one penny of my money.

Agree 100%

[jwm51]

I agree with your instructor...NO.:mad:

 

Why on earth would I step foot on someplace where I could get killed for being who I am???:(

[wripro]

At least in Russia we can only be arrested.

[Host Tyler]

I rarely post on the forums.....just moderate, or at least do my best. That said, I would never advise anyone to travel (or not travel), in these areas.

 

Due diligence and research, then come to your own conclusion. Because there are those of us that provide anecdotal stories about our experiences, in my opinion, shouldn't necessarily be a determining factor.

 

Just my view.

[wripro]

These opinions are not anecdotal. They are facts.

[keithm]

These opinions are not anecdotal. They are facts.

You would think if he read any of the news stories he'd come to some conclusion. Then again we don't want to upset advertisors,do we?

[jamessemaj]

Anecdotal evidence is based on experience or observation rather than statistical validity. Not that anecdotal evidence isn't fact, but it's less valid than statistical evidence.

[mistereks]

Apparently, anti-gay violence is UP this year: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/07/25/something-you-should-know-before-you-go

[kenchuckie]

We went to Jamaica as part of one of our cruises and we felt like we were never safe there. We were the only ones on a bus a one point and the driver kept asking us where our women were and other probing questions. I would say if you have to go there, travel in groups.

[rojjodc]

Another brutal anti-gay murder in Jamaica:

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/jamaica-transgender-teen-murdered-mob-070446416.html