Smoking Policy (More...)

[iancal]

About 10 days ago our choice for a Christmas cruise came down to two ships. Zuiderdam and Eclipse.

 

We liked Zuiderdam because it was a little later in the month and covered New Years day. We did not select it for two reasons. First was the smoking policy, second were the ongoing complaints about A/C issues. Price was number three on the list.

 

We are not complaining about folks smoking on verandahs. We just made a decision that would preclude this from being an issue for DW.

 

Everyone has the same choice to make, it's your choice. It seems senseless to complain about a choice that you have made, or a choice that you have to make, to anyone except yourself or perhaps the cruise line.

[regnig]

But of course, I forgot, they are avoiding the "smoking areas" :rolleyes:

 

:rolleyes:Guess "they" are all avoiding any area out on deck. Heck why are they only complaining about the awful people in the stateroom next, above, below or on the opposite side of the ship instead of going after the inconsiderate captain for putting the ship under sail and creating "whatever" (fill in and tell us it will kill you) from the funnels. :rolleyes:

 

Notice how the goalposts keep moving?

 

Now that you mention it I haven't even mentioned just how "violently ill" the smell of perfume or men's aftershave makes me! :rolleyes:

Edited November 16, 2013 by larsen

[regnig]

......so "smoke makes me violently ill" sounds like it might be a little bit of an exaggeration? :confused:

 

Oh heavens you don't think the poster exaggerated just a little itty bitty bit do you? :rolleyes:

[Wakepatrol]

About 10 days ago our choice for a Christmas cruise came down to two ships. Zuiderdam and Eclipse.

 

We liked Zuiderdam because it was a little later in the month and covered New Years day. We did not select it for two reasons. First was the smoking policy, second were the ongoing complaints about A/C issues. Price was number three on the list.

 

We are not complaining about folks smoking on verandahs. We just made a decision that would preclude this from being an issue for DW.

 

Everyone has the same choice to make, it's your choice. It seems senseless to complain about a choice that you have made, or a choice that you have to make, to anyone except yourself or perhaps the cruise line.

 

 

Since you've read about constant problems on the Zuiderdam and chimed in 500 times,why would that ship even make it on your list:confused:

[Wakepatrol]

Actually, there is something somewhere about being considerate to your neighbours. So, yes, whether you are very loud in your stateroom or on your balcony, a complaint can be made and the request would be made that you 'tone it down'.

 

The captain gets on the P.A. system and yells "Simmer Down,Or I'll Turn This Ship Right Around"

[serendipity1499]

I am not a smoker.

 

But if I was, you could hardly expect me not to smoke on my verandah since the ability to smoke on my verandah was one of the reasons that I may have selected HAL.

 

Why would you expect a smoker NOT to smoke on his or her balcony, or in designated smoking areas when it is permitted? That logic seems more than a little odd to me.

 

If you do not like this, then simply select another cruise line or book an outside or inside cabin.

 

It is hardly reasonable to imply that someone is inconsiderate because they smoke on their verandah.

 

As a Non Smoker I completely agree with you!

 

While I’m really loath to post on a “smoking” thread my irritation with the verbiage being used has reached its limit. The definition of considerate is ”thinking about the rights and feelings of other people”. As you will note, I have bolded the word “rights”. Under HAL’s current policy it is the right of anyone who books a balcony to smoke on it PERIOD. As a non-smoker it is not your right to attempt to deny or disregard the rights someone else or to belittle them for exercising their rights. That makes you the inconsiderate person. HAL is upfront about their policy and when a smoker books a balcony stateroom they are afforded the right by HAL to smoke on it. If a non-smoker books a balcony they are giving up their rights to possibly have a smoke free environment. If someone does not agree with the HAL’s policy then they shouldn’t spend their money on a balcony. But, by all means please, please, please stop calling those who paid for the right to smoke on their balconies and then do so inconsiderate.

 

I am a non-smoker! Unfortunately our dearest Sister-in-law who once was a heavy smoker.passed away two months ago from lung cancer...

IMO both smokers & non-smokers have rights & as a non-smoker I choose not to book verandah cabins..

An inconsiderate person is one who books a balcony & then complains that smoke from other balconies bother them & ruined their cruise !

My Mother & Aunt were teetotaler's due to their religious principals..They could have refused to come to our home as both DH & I would occasionally enjoy a cocktail, but they didn't.. However, if & when they took us out to dinner (their treats), we knew that if we chose to drink we would pay for our own drinks..

Betty

Edited November 16, 2013 by serendipity1499

[YubaSutter]

On what basis? There is no more a prohibition against noise pollution on the balconies than there is against air pollution.

 

 

Yes there is. Loud music on the balcony is prohibited, smoking isn't.

[mamaofami]

It seems to me that as long as HAL has a smoking permitted policy, the rest of us non smokers simply have to bare with it, or switch lines. Not saying I want to change lines, and not saying I like the smoke, but unless they change their policy, there's nothing we can do.

Edited November 16, 2013 by mamaofami

[CRUZBUDS]

..;when that ship is moving, there is no way that the smoke can or does bother them........../QUOTE]

 

Gee, I wonder what it was that stunk so bad:confused: I guess it couldn't have been cigarette smoke after all, it sure smelled like it. :rolleyes:

[Funsun60]

These discussions centre around the air pollution/health risks/unpleasant smells etc associated with smoking. My question, if all cruisers who feel having smokers on board will have such a negative effect on their health and enjoyment, why do they cruise in the first place as studies have documented the negative health and environment impacts of ships in general. See the attached link for a report sanctioned by the American Lung Association among others. I would think anyone concerned about their health as well as the health of others, would be against cruising not just against smokers in designated areas.

 

Part of the report is copied below.

 

health and revered ecosystems

The large ocean-going ships that travel along U.S. coastlines and dock at our nation’s ports deliver considerable amounts of pollution. Much of the pollution from these large vessels is concentrated in ports and the densely populated metropolitan areas near ports that, in almost every instance, already suffer from unhealthy air.

The health effects of diesel emissions in general are well documented. Diesel air pollution adds to cancer risk all around the United States. In many places, diesel emissions create the greatest contribution to cancer risk from air pollution. For example, in the Seattle area, diesel soot accounts for somewhere between 70% and 85% of the total cancer risk from all air toxics. And in the South Coast Air Basin, which includes Los Angeles, diesel exhaust contributes about 84% of the cancer risk from air toxics. In addition, because diesel emissions are a complex mixture of chemicals, exposure to this pollution contributes to a wide range of non-cancer health risks, including pulmonary disease, cardiovascular effects, neurotoxicity, low birth weight in infants, premature births, congenital abnormalities and elevated infant mortality rates.

Particulate matter

Particulate matter can aggravate respiratory conditions such as asthma and chronic bronchitis and has been associated with cardiac arrhythmias (heartbeat irregularities), heart attacks and premature deaths. People with diabetes, heart or lung disease, the elderly and children are at highest risk from exposure to particulate pollution. A recent study calculated that, worldwide, shipping-related PM emissions contribute to approximately 60,000 deaths annually, with impacts concentrated in coastal regions on major trade routes. The study also predicted that under the regulationsin place before the amendments to Annex VI were passed in October 2008, and with the expected growth in shipping activity, annual deaths could increase 40% by 2012, increasing

the number of deaths associated with shipping pollution to

84,000 every year.

 

http://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/9466_ECA_report_March2009_0.pdf

[Cashew14]

These discussions centre around the air pollution/health risks/unpleasant smells etc associated with smoking. My question, if all cruisers who feel having smokers on board will have such a negative effect on their health and enjoyment, why do they cruise in the first place as studies have documented the negative health and environment impacts of ships in general. See the attached link for a report sanctioned by the American Lung Association among others. I would think anyone concerned about their health as well as the health of others, would be against cruising not just against smokers in designated areas.

 

Part of the report is copied below.

 

health and revered ecosystems

The large ocean-going ships that travel along U.S. coastlines and dock at our nation’s ports deliver considerable amounts of pollution. Much of the pollution from these large vessels is concentrated in ports and the densely populated metropolitan areas near ports that, in almost every instance, already suffer from unhealthy air.

The health effects of diesel emissions in general are well documented. Diesel air pollution adds to cancer risk all around the United States. In many places, diesel emissions create the greatest contribution to cancer risk from air pollution. For example, in the Seattle area, diesel soot accounts for somewhere between 70% and 85% of the total cancer risk from all air toxics. And in the South Coast Air Basin, which includes Los Angeles, diesel exhaust contributes about 84% of the cancer risk from air toxics. In addition, because diesel emissions are a complex mixture of chemicals, exposure to this pollution contributes to a wide range of non-cancer health risks, including pulmonary disease, cardiovascular effects, neurotoxicity, low birth weight in infants, premature births, congenital abnormalities and elevated infant mortality rates.

Particulate matter

Particulate matter can aggravate respiratory conditions such as asthma and chronic bronchitis and has been associated with cardiac arrhythmias (heartbeat irregularities), heart attacks and premature deaths. People with diabetes, heart or lung disease, the elderly and children are at highest risk from exposure to particulate pollution. A recent study calculated that, worldwide, shipping-related PM emissions contribute to approximately 60,000 deaths annually, with impacts concentrated in coastal regions on major trade routes. The study also predicted that under the regulationsin place before the amendments to Annex VI were passed in October 2008, and with the expected growth in shipping activity, annual deaths could increase 40% by 2012, increasing

the number of deaths associated with shipping pollution to

84,000 every year.

 

http://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/9466_ECA_report_March2009_0.pdf

 

 

20 minutes have passed and still no reply from the normally so active non-smokers ;)

[cruz chic]

I am not a smoker, but i am so tired of these, non smokers trying to force thier convictions on others...you would think that every balcony could smell the oder of some one smoking on thier own balcony.....;when that ship is moving, there is no way that the smoke can or does bother them..........

 

There is nothing more boring than a reformed wh--e

 

Thanks for straightening that out for us:rolleyes:.

[cruz chic]

..;when that ship is moving, there is no way that the smoke can or does bother them........../QUOTE]

 

Gee, I wonder what it was that stunk so bad:confused: I guess it couldn't have been cigarette smoke after all, it sure smelled like it. :rolleyes:

 

No kidding. My guess is that it's only smokers that can't smell it. I don't know where this "theory" come from. You can smell it.

[Lady Chew]

It seems to me that as long as HAL has a smoking permitted policy, the rest of us non smokers simply have to bare with it, or switch lines. Not saying I want to change lines, and not saying I like the smoke, but unless they change their policy, there's nothing we can do.

 

wait a minute ... you mean if someone is smoking on the balcony next door, we have to get naked?? :eek:

(sorry, I just couldn't resist)

[CRUZBUDS]

20 minutes have passed and still no reply from the normally so active non-smokers ;)

 

I didn't see any relationship to the topic being discussed. The thread seems to be primarily discussing balcony smoking.

 

By the way, what is the price of tea in China these days? :confused:

[mrscopper]

I am on oxygen, but I love Holland America ships. So I know I can't have it both. So I hunker down and let the smoke blow by me..... Actually, I was on the Ruby Princess last year and the elevator access for handicapped passingers was on the other side of the smoking section. So I traveled through the maze trying to hold my breath (now that is an experience). Why Princess would do that I have no idea, not good thinking. However, the smokers got to see what life might be like for them when they are in their 60's:eek:

[startwin]

wait a minute ... you mean if someone is smoking on the balcony next door, we have to get naked?? :eek:

 

(sorry, I just couldn't resist)

 

 

Oooh, now that caught my attention:D That could make for some very interesting cruises!

 

I've just been reading this thread, and it seems to me the non-smokers have been pretty patient and agreeable. But some smokers are still insisting on attacking them. I'm a reformed smoker, and haven't bothered to get into this latest spat - nothing ever changes.

[Himself]

Huh?

I shouldn't book a veranda cabin bevause smoker MIGHT foul the air I breathe?

 

If I have to book a cabin with a window only, then I might as well not book at all.

 

I usually get an inside cabin!

[IRL_Joanie]

As a Non Smoker I completely agree with you!

 

 

 

I am a non-smoker! Unfortunately our dearest Sister-in-law who once was a heavy smoker.passed away two months ago from lung cancer...

 

IMO both smokers & non-smokers have rights & as a non-smoker I choose not to book verandah cabins..

An inconsiderate person is one who books a balcony & then complains that smoke from other balconies bother them & ruined their cruise !

 

My Mother & Aunt were teetotaler's due to their religious principals..They could have refused to come to our home as both DH & I would occasionally enjoy a cocktail, but they didn't.. However, if & when they took us out to dinner (their treats), we knew that if we chose to drink we would pay for our own drinks..

 

Betty

 

Betty, you are a font of wisdom:) Unfortunately, others will not be as understanding as you, Lancal, and a few others are on the subject.

 

I thank you for your great consideration and voicing what many of us have tried to say in previous threads, but got tired of stating again and again.

 

So my one and only comment on this thread is more to post the following than anything else:)

 

 

Joanie

[sapper1]

wait a minute ... you mean if someone is smoking on the balcony next door, we have to get naked?? :eek:

(sorry, I just couldn't resist)

 

I guess if they decide to bare it we will just have to grin and bear it. :D

[CRUZBUDS]

 

]An inconsiderate person is one who books a balcony & then complains that smoke from other balconies bother them & ruined their cruise !

 

If we're bothered by smoke on a cruise and express our opinion on boards like this, who are we being inconsiderate to?

 

I don't think any one said they comforted or complained to smokers who are obeying the current rules. To do so could be considered inconsiderate.

Edited November 17, 2013 by CRUZBUDS

[serendipity1499]

Betty, you are a font of wisdom:) Unfortunately, others will not be as understanding as you, Lancal, and a few others are on the subject.

 

I thank you for your great consideration and voicing what many of us have tried to say in previous threads, but got tired of stating again and again.

 

So my one and only comment on this thread is more to post the following than anything else:)

 

[ATTACH]293144[/ATTACH]

 

Joanie

 

Thanks Joanie..

 

If we're bothered by smoke on a cruise and express our opinion on boards like this, who are we being inconsiderate to?

 

I don't think any one said they comforted or complained to smokers who are obeying the current rules. To do so could be considered inconsiderate.

 

The OP complained directly to HAL & did not like HAL's answer to their complaint:

..Quote

We have gone round and round on this subject with HA and attached is the latest correspondence.

 

FYI, we did book our cruise on a different line but would sail again on HA if and when the policy changes.

 

Regards, Jane

Attached Filesdoc20131114095630.pdf (51.2 KB, 236 views)

UNQuote

 

In a nutshell HAL stated that they consider their policy to be fair to all of their clients not just the Non-Smokers & I agree even though I am a non-smoker..

Let's face it many Non-Americans smoke & cruise with HAL... Who am I to object to their smoking in a designated area.. If I don't like it, I would move to another line which has a more restrictive smoking policy, not book a verandah & then complain about it..

 

Goodnight all..On my way to bed as we're leaving on a HAL cruise tomorrow..YEA!

Betty

Edited November 17, 2013 by serendipity1499

[Lynda S]

The good new is that smoking was not allowed in Glacier Bay. .

 

Does anyone out there know if the casino is open during the viewing in Glacier Bay?

[Mimosa09]

The casinos were not open when cruising Glacier Bay on Princess. I don't think they were open on the Infinity when cruising Hubbard's glacier either. Hubbard's glacier is spectacular in my opinion.

- Rose

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[Wakepatrol]

You mean there's actually people playing penny slots when the ship finally makes it to Glacier Bay?:eek: