Live from the Dawn - the update on boarding issues

[allison0523]

Well we are currently backing into the pier at Tampa. In a few hours we will see what it will be like. Cruise was great, getting on sucked, now to see what getting off is all about. We are not planning to join the lines early as we are locals and in no hurry.

 

But other we know will be. Shall be watching and reporting if possible.

 

What time did you try to embark? It seems to me if they are telling people not to arrive until 1pm, but you have to be on board 2 hours before set sail, then it only allows 1hr for everyone to board.

[che5904]

Well we are currently backing into the pier at Tampa. In a few hours we will see what it will be like. Cruise was great, getting on sucked, now to see what getting off is all about. We are not planning to join the lines early as we are locals and in no hurry.

 

But other we know will be. Shall be watching and reporting if possible.

 

So glad your cruise went great. Looking forward to our upcoming one in February.

 

So putting this in perspective. Out of approx. 162 hours from the point of getting to port, until getting out of the terminal, 5 hours may have sucked. In reality to have a 3% negative and 97% positive experience. I'd say that's better than most odds for good and bad in life.

 

So my suggestion is to anyone experiencing this is to put the 3% behind you and concentrate on the 97% memories that you've have just made.

[che5904]

What time did you try to embark? It seems to me if they are telling people not to arrive until 1pm, but you have to be on board 2 hours before set sail, then it only allows 1hr for everyone to board.

 

I posed that question to the NCL Rep that posted on this thread (post #44). "Is that not going to create more congestion and confusion by trying to process 2000+ passengers in one hour (between 1pm and 2pm - 2 hrs before sail). At the most 2 hrs as the latest to be onboard at 3pm, because the muster is usually approximately an hour before sail."

 

Not that I expected them to respond, but at least wanted to put a bug in someone's ear that this may not be the best idea to fix the problem.

Edited December 8, 2013 by che5904

[polySeraph]

To clear up one point that I thoughtI had already.

 

The requirment of a passport has been waived for these Dawn cruises. This was from the officers at the meet and greet and it was a big relief to NCL because they faced a $5000 fine per person not having a passport.

 

It is the carrier that gets dinged. The US citizen should not have been allowed to travel w/o a passport on a open loop cruise which this became in Coz.

 

So kids do not need a passport as yet. Nor adults. Of course I suppose with the government involved that could change in an instant.

 

Sorry if my inital info was confusing.

 

Glad you had a great cruise and thanks for the added information on the passports. The part about the $5,000/person fine for not having passports is very interesting.

[legion3]

Ok one hour to get off the ship. This was with priority with assist. So had to pick up bags or help with luggage.

 

8 customs booths but only 4 are manned. The bulk of the passengers are still aboard or in line.

[legion3]

The only people ahead of us were those who could carry all their luggage by themselves...fyi

 

Anyway people are dropping off luggage for the cruise today already.

[legion3]

What time did you try to embark? It seems to me if they are telling people not to arrive until 1pm, but you have to be on board 2 hours before set sail, then it only allows 1hr for everyone to board.

 

Well if you came at 1 or after you waited about 2 hours most of it in the sun. We arrived just before noon and were in the first 100 to board but we waited an hour for them to open the terminal and an hour to get through security and on the ship but we were shaded or indoors for the entire time.

 

If the computers had not been down subtract maybe a hour all around.

 

Hope this helps

[che5904]

Welcome home!

[parttimr]

Sure hope it gets better by 1-26-14

[DCP]

We'll be headed to the port soon. Hoping that the NCL executive that is supposed to be there today can help resolve whatever the issues are! Took my extra dose if patience and am ready to sail!!

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[lasefton]

We'll be headed to the port soon. Hoping that the NCL executive that is supposed to be there today can help resolve whatever the issues are! Took my extra dose if patience and am ready to sail!!

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

Please post if you can how it went getting on . How long it took ? We will be on the Dawn in Jan.

Edited December 8, 2013 by lasefton

[che5904]

We'll be headed to the port soon. Hoping that the NCL executive that is supposed to be there today can help resolve whatever the issues are! Took my extra dose if patience and am ready to sail!!

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

Safe travels and have a great time.

[njhorseman]

To clear up one point that I thoughtI had already.

 

The requirment of a passport has been waived for these Dawn cruises. This was from the officers at the meet and greet and it was a big relief to NCL because they faced a $5000 fine per person not having a passport.

 

It is the carrier that gets dinged. The US citizen should not have been allowed to travel w/o a passport on a open loop cruise which this became in Coz.

 

So kids do not need a passport as yet. Nor adults. Of course I suppose with the government involved that could change in an instant.

 

Sorry if my inital info was confusing.

 

FWIW, it's still a closed loop cruise for the passengers embarking and disembarking in Tampa, so I suspect DHS was making a lot of noise about nothing. The fine was "waived" because in reality there was no basis for it to begin with...just some bureaucrat making a really sketchy interpretation of the rules.

 

The US regulation is 22 CFR § 53.2 (b)(2) which reads as follows, and there is absolutely nothing in it that changes the closed loop status for US citizens just because others boarded in a foreign port:

 

Quote:

Exceptions.

(b) A U.S. citizen is not required to bear a valid U.S. passport to enter or depart the United States:

 

(2) When traveling entirely within the Western Hemisphere on a cruise ship, and when the U.S. citizen boards the cruise ship at a port or place within the United States and returns on the return voyage of the same cruise ship to the same United States port or place from where he or she originally departed. That U.S. citizen may present a government-issued photo identification document in combination with either an original or a copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad issued by the Department, or a Certificate of Naturalization issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services before entering the United States; if the U.S. citizen is under the age of 16, he or she may present either an original or a copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad issued by the Department, or a Certificate of Naturalization issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;

[legion3]

How a statute is written and how it is interpreted and applied are two totally different things.

 

Do you happen to have the rest of the statute ? Particually that discusses adding foreign passengers to a closed loop? Without both the entire statute, or regulation in this case, and how the regulatory agency applies it. Such info is almost completely useless.

 

Far to many quote statutes or come to court armed with a book full of laws only to find out that isn't always enough.

 

Feel free to show up at the port armed with that regulation and prepared to make your case. ;)

[njhorseman]

How a statute is written and how it is interpreted and applied are two totally different things.

 

Do you happen to have the rest of the statute ? Particually that discusses adding foreign passengers to a closed loop? Without both the entire statute, or regulation in this case, and how the regulatory agency applies it. Such info is almost completely useless.

 

Far to many quote statutes or come to court armed with a book full of laws only to find out that isn't always enough.

 

Feel free to show up at the port armed with that regulation and prepared to make your case. ;)

 

It's Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations and you should find everything you need to know here:

 

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-3521/0-0-0-3530.html

 

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-3521/0-0-0-3533.html

 

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-3521/0-0-0-3582.html

 

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-3521/0-0-0-3586.html

 

I'm not going to bore everyone reading this thread by quoting the text. You can follow the links. There's no reference to the closed loop cruise definition being modified for US citizen passengers embarking in and returning to the original port because of a ship embarking passengers at a subsequent foreign port.

 

If you are aware of any statute or regulation that contradicts what I've posted please provide it so that I can learn what I've missed or misinterpreted.

[SeaShark]

If this thread has taught us anything, it is that regardless of what regulations people quote, no matter what interpretation is applied, no matter what anecdote is related . . . NO MATTER WHAT, carry your passport = no problem.

 

Sure...in "some" instances a passport is not required, but a passport is NEVER insufficient documentation/identification. Is there really a good reason to not do the smart thing?

[legion3]

Then NCL just wants to annoy its passengers or tampa customs wants to irritate NCL's passengers because...I will do some legal research tommorow for you and see what I can find.

 

Again please feel free to send your research to NCL and Tampa customs, clearly they have missed the meaning of the regulations and maybe you can set them straight.

 

Trust me you won't bore anybody who has to stand in longer than usual lines in getting off in Tampa if the answer is in the regs you posted. They will be thrilled to know you got the situation well in hand.

 

Did the Ryndam or Legend report anysuch issues. They were also returning from closed loop cruises today?

[legion3]

Nope no reports of any delays on the carnival or hal boards in Tampa. No unusual customs or disembarcation delays.

 

They did similar 7 day cruises last week but did not pick up extra passengers in Cozumel.

 

The regs seem to be accurately applied for them? What is NCL's problem and why do the customs agents treat her differently. Do they not know the rules? NCL should file an equal protection clause action. Where's OJ's dream team when you need them?

[che5904]

I'm not going to bore everyone reading this thread by quoting the text.

 

I, for one appreciate that. ;) You usually are quite read or knowledgeable in these matter, so I will personally just trust that you know what you are talking about.

 

Since whether you are right or wrong, does not change the fact that unless someone hears different from NCL officially, U.S. citizen still only need BC & DL at this time. So whether NCL is fined or not really is irrelevant to the passengers.

[vols_159]

was there any delays today?

[chengkp75]

It's Title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations and you should find everything you need to know here:

 

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-3521/0-0-0-3530.html

 

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-3521/0-0-0-3533.html

 

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-3521/0-0-0-3582.html

 

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-3521/0-0-0-3586.html

 

I'm not going to bore everyone reading this thread by quoting the text. You can follow the links. There's no reference to the closed loop cruise definition being modified for US citizen passengers embarking in and returning to the original port because of a ship embarking passengers at a subsequent foreign port.

 

If you are aware of any statute or regulation that contradicts what I've posted please provide it so that I can learn what I've missed or misinterpreted.

 

I, at least, am not questioning that a passport is not required for these cruises. What I am saying is that the usual cursory examination of the passenger documents is no longer done, but that they will run your name through the database, which will slow things down.

 

I've looked at the CBP Vessel Inspection Guide (http://nemo.cbp.gov/opa/vessel_guide.pdf), which states on page 31 (unable to cut and paste) "Cruises that begin in a foreign country, or embark new passengers in a foreign port of call, are not inspected as a "closed loop" arrival and will be processed as a foreign arrival."

[snow bunny]

Why has she not left port yet?

 

snow bunny

[legion3]

Any delays? Well she is still sitting at her berth Tampa. When was she to sail? I guess thats a delay.

[legion3]

Title 19 US Code 1436 has the penalties for violating of arrival, reporting, entry and clearence requirements.

 

"Any master .... $5000 first violation and $10,000 subsequent violations"

 

I must assume that this is the Law the officers on NCL were concerned about. This is a law as opposed to a federal regulation.

 

Anyway I will do some more indepth research later. This was just a quick read.

 

But it does not seem this is a bureaucrat making something up.

Edited December 8, 2013 by legion3

[chengkp75]

Title 19 US Code 1436 has the penalties for violating of arrival, reporting, entry and clearence requirements.

 

"Any master .... $5000 first violation and $10,000 subsequent violations"That is per manifest or reporting, not per passenger. Provided the revised manifest after Cozumel has the proper information, there is no violation

 

I must assume that this is the Law the officers on NCL were concerned about. This is a law as opposed to a federal regulation.

 

Anyway I will do some more indepth research later. This was just a quick read.

 

In the CBP Vessel Inspection Guide I reference above, it does not say that the embarkation of new passengers in a foreign port of call would change the documentation required for a US citizen on a closed loop voyage, but it changes to processing of the vessel when it returns to the US. Therefore, there would be no fine for the cruise line having any US citizen on this cruise without a passport, regardless of any "waiver".

Edited December 8, 2013 by chengkp75