Service Animals on Celebrity Ship?

[NLH Arizona]

The issue is a bit complicated in the US due to veterans from Afghanstan/Iraq with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). For those brave folks, having an animal, a constant companion, friend really makes a difference in their lives. I have seen veterans where this changes their lives.

 

But once you allow those pets (and, yes, they are more pet than actual service dog), you open up the world to anyone with a real or imagined emotional problem...and to those who will claim anything to be able to stay with their pet.

 

Not an easy situation to manage and certainly a very hard one to legislate.

As a point of refernce, the ADA does consider dogs that help those with PTSD as actual service dogs. Please don't confuse a true service dog that helps those with PTSD, with those emotional/comfort support dogs.

 

From the ADA Website:

Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

 

The posers are those people that go to their doctors and say they are stressed out and little fluffy calms them down. Too many doctors are eager to right perscriptions saying fluffy is needed for emotional support.

Edited May 27, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[hulamoon]

It seems to me that a basic good citizenship certification as some apartments request, or similar certification could be requested of guests.

 

I am sure training a dog or having it trained seems burdonsome but certainly it would help the dog, pig or horses ability to assist.

[need2bespoiled]

It seems to me that a basic good citizenship certification as some apartments request, or similar certification could be requested of guests.

 

I am sure training a dog or having it trained seems burdonsome but certainly it would help the dog, pig or horses ability to assist.

 

Hey Sharie,

 

As Dee is a breeder, our experience is that an AKC CGC (Canine Good Citizen) test is a pretty low bar.

 

I really agree with the previous poster. There should be certification for SERVICE dogs, and that Celebrity needs to stop allowing pets and only allow true Service Dogs.

 

If the behavior we have seen continues, or Celebrity knows about it (feeding at the buffet, accidents, etc) are witnessed, they really need to boot the passengers. I might say give them a second chance, as even dogs get sick and mistakes happen, but it's pretty obvious to watch the behavior difference between a working dog and a pet.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[hulamoon]

I couldn't agree more Jenna, would much rather see only truly trained service dogs.

 

However, it seems there is a reluctance on celebrity's part to do this.

 

While good citizenship is a low bar, it is a bar, and most pets used as emotional service dogs could not pass it. It was suggested as a minimum.

 

In our past we were hobby breeders for Bichons, (would have enjoyed speaking to Dee, Jenna) I say hobby because no way can we make a profit if all animals pass CHIC before breeding. And also have no allergies and proper temperaments themselves.

 

So we have seen many owners with dogs for these purposes and the ones willing to get even this minimum designation at least know basic training and care of their animals in public. My bet is most pets in the US could not pass it!

[Aussie_Kiwi_Family]

Thanks everyone! It sounds complicated.

[Clydesmom7865]

I couldn't agree more Jenna, would much rather see only truly trained service dogs.

 

While good citizenship is a low bar, it is a bar, and most pets used as emotional service dogs could not pass it. It was suggested as a minimum.

 

In our past we were hobby breeders for Bichons, (would have enjoyed speaking to Dee, Jenna) I say hobby because no way can we make a profit if all animals pass CHIC before breeding. And also have no allergies and proper temperaments themselves.

 

So we have seen many owners with dogs for these purposes and the ones willing to get even this minimum designation at least know basic training and care of their animals in public. My bet is most pets in the US could not pass it!

 

The issue is not what breed is suitable as a service animal but whether a dog in a stroller or being fed from a plate in the buffet line is even a service dog at all.

 

Personally I don't care if that yappy Chihuahua is on board if it has passed a test showing that when the diabetic owner is in trouble it is trained to get help, the insulin kit, or dial 911 for assistance. However, if it is being wheeled around deck simply so its self absorbed owner can avoid kennel fees at the expense of damaging the reputation of true disabled and their service animals I object.

 

However, it seems there is a reluctance on celebrity's part to do this.

 

And THIS is what these clods count on. That they can merely state it is a service animal and out of fear of the passenger screeching "discrimination" the cruise line doesn't question when Fluffy is in a pink stroller and whizzing on the carpeting. Until the cruise lines place common sense front and center these self absorbed narcissistic people will continue to defy the laws and do as they please.

[hulamoon]

The issue is not what breed is suitable as a service animal but whether a dog in a stroller or being fed from a plate in the buffet line is even a service dog at all.

 

Personally I don't care if that yappy Chihuahua is on board if it has passed a test showing that when the diabetic owner is in trouble it is trained to get help, the insulin kit, or dial 911 for assistance. However, if it is being wheeled around deck simply so its self absorbed owner can avoid kennel fees at the expense of damaging the reputation of true disabled and their service animals I object.

 

 

 

And THIS is what these clods count on. That they can merely state it is a service animal and out of fear of the passenger screeching "discrimination" the cruise line doesn't question when Fluffy is in a pink stroller and whizzing on the carpeting. Until the cruise lines place common sense front and center these self absorbed narcissistic people will continue to defy the laws and do as they please.

 

I was not advocating any dog breed whatsoever. The thread is a general discussion of service dogs, therapy dogs and pets cruising as therapy dogs. Generally when dogs are well trained in public the owner is as well. Most of us agree it unethical to pretend a pet is a service dog.

[NLH Arizona]

 

And THIS is what these clods count on. That they can merely state it is a service animal and out of fear of the passenger screeching "discrimination" the cruise line doesn't question when Fluffy is in a pink stroller and whizzing on the carpeting. Until the cruise lines place common sense front and center these self absorbed narcissistic people will continue to defy the laws and do as they please.

Hopefully the ADA will come up with some legislation to require certificates for service dogs (some other organizations are afraid that by asking for certificates, it negates the privacy of the owner), but until then, we can do something. When we see behavior that is not appropriate (not housebroken, aggressive, not leashed, etc.), we need to deal with the appropriate staff members. If they won't do anything, report those issues like pooping in public spaces and feeding at tables or sitting on tables to the proper authoritizes (health department). This is the only way that Celebrity will deal with this situation. Celebrity, like all companies, is afraid of a lawsuit if they refuse embarkation to a service dog or one that is a poser (because these folks throw around the service dog name, because the know how it scares companies).

[hulamoon]

I've only seen dogs on cruises a couple times, maybe on 10% of the cruises I've been on or less and even then I've never seen more than one dog on a cruise.

 

There are several possible reasons that you've never seen a dog on board a cruise out of Sydney. The most likely reason is just that the odds are low of seeing one on board period. The second most likely reason is that it is more of an American thing and the trip to Australia is just too far to take a dog even for those who are cheating or have a more borderline case than someone with a properly trained service dog.

 

Australia is rabies free, like New Zealand, like Hawaii and England. To take a dog out of the country and back or into Australia for boarding takes some work and money.

[need2bespoiled]

Hopefully the ADA will come up with some legislation to require certificates for service dogs (some other organizations are afraid that by asking for certificates, it negates the privacy of the owner), but until then, we can do something. When we see behavior that is not appropriate (not housebroken, aggressive, not leashed, etc.), we need to deal with the appropriate staff members. If they won't do anything, report those issues like pooping in public spaces and feeding at tables or sitting on tables to the proper authoritizes (health department). This is the only way that Celebrity will deal with this situation. Celebrity, like all companies, is afraid of a lawsuit if they refuse embarkation to a service dog or one that is a poser (because these folks throw around the service dog name, because the know how it scares companies).

 

While I don't use much for email on the ship, I still bring my phone to many places for pictures. As they say, a picture is worth a thousan words. One emailed to the health department might end this abuse (by the pet owners) and neglect (by the cruise line to obey decent standards.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[dkjretired]

While I don't use much for email on the ship, I still bring my phone to many places for pictures. As they say, a picture is worth a thousan words. One emailed to the health department might end this abuse (by the pet owners) and neglect (by the cruise line to obey decent standards.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

 

What health department....

[dkjretired]

Hopefully the ADA will come up with some legislation to require certificates for service dogs (some other organizations are afraid that by asking for certificates, it negates the privacy of the owner), but until then, we can do something. When we see behavior that is not appropriate (not housebroken, aggressive, not leashed, etc.), we need to deal with the appropriate staff members. If they won't do anything, report those issues like pooping in public spaces and feeding at tables or sitting on tables to the proper authoritizes (health department). This is the only way that Celebrity will deal with this situation. Celebrity, like all companies, is afraid of a lawsuit if they refuse embarkation to a service dog or one that is a poser (because these folks throw around the service dog name, because the know how it scares companies).

 

Surprised they haven't set up some multi billion dollar agency to give out certifications, seems a good way for relatives to get jobs in the government.

[need2bespoiled]

What health department....

 

"The Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) assists the cruise ship industry to prevent and control the introduction, transmission, and spread of gastrointestinal (GI) illnesses on cruise ships. VSP operates under the authority of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. Section 264 Quarantine and Inspection Regulations to Control Communicable Diseases). VSP is part of the National Center for Environmental Health's Division"

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/

 

Happy Sailing,

Jenna

[lawblond7]

We do not currently have a service dog - although all 3 of my boys have a genetic metabolic disease and one has seizures - BUT several of my friends do. Emotional support animals ARE NOT considered service animals under that ADA - here is a good link - http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

 

Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA

 

Under the ADA, service animals must be harnessed, leashed, or tethered, unless these devices interfere with the service animal’s work or the individual’s disability prevents using these devices. In that case, the individual must maintain control of the animal through voice, signal, or other effective controls. - Clearly the dog in the stroller was doing NOTHING.

 

Also about what is allowed to be asked:

Inquiries, Exclusions, Charges, and Other Specific Rules Related to Service Animals

 

When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.

 

Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.

 

A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.

 

Establishments that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.

People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be isolated from other patrons, treated less favorably than other patrons, or charged fees that are not charged to other patrons without animals. In addition, if a business requires a deposit or fee to be paid by patrons with pets, it must waive the charge for service animals.

 

If a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may also be charged for damage caused by himself or his service animal.

 

Staff are not required to provide care or food for a service animal.

 

Sharon

[New Hampshire]

Is it correct then, that cruiselines can prohibit dogs that are emotional support dogs?

[Clydesmom7865]

Is it correct then, that cruiselines can prohibit dogs that are emotional support dogs?

 

If the passenger identifies it as such: yes. ESA are NOT service animals and have no additional protection under ADA. However the scammers are smart enough to know that.

 

As long as they say it is a service dog they know the airline, cruise line, hotel cannot ask what it is for or any other detailed questions. They also cannot ask for proof. This is why legislation is needed to identify true service animals and separate them from the idiots who insist they can't bear to leave Fluffy behind when they travel and LIE about the dog's purpose.

[teecee60]

Can't WAIT till they have to divert a cruise ship...:eek::p:rolleyes:

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dog-poo-forces-flight-make-emergency-landing-n118766

[dkjretired]

"The Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) assists the cruise ship industry to prevent and control the introduction, transmission, and spread of gastrointestinal (GI) illnesses on cruise ships. VSP operates under the authority of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. Section 264 Quarantine and Inspection Regulations to Control Communicable Diseases). VSP is part of the National Center for Environmental Health's Division"

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/

 

Happy Sailing,

Jenna

 

That's a real stretch plus they do not have any jurisdiction unless a US port is involved.

[need2bespoiled]

That's a real stretch plus they do not have any jurisdiction unless a US port is involved.

 

Very true, but it applies to about half of the cruises I take, give or take.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[4cats4me]

Can't WAIT till they have to divert a cruise ship...:eek::p:rolleyes:

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dog-poo-forces-flight-make-emergency-landing-n118766

 

:eek:

 

 

Well, they were delayed an extra two hours on the tarmac in LAX no wonder poor doggy had to do its business

 

Lol

[Jem 12]

:eek:

 

 

Well, they were delayed an extra two hours on the tarmac in LAX no wonder poor doggy had to do its business

 

Lol

 

 

It was a 7 hour flight, so would an additional 2 hours make a difference, it then became a 14 hour journey because of a dog!!!!! I can't believe that this situation has been allowed to happen, it's bad enough flying without having dogs poo!!! to contend with.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Jem 12
sp

[ghstudio]

That's a real stretch plus they do not have any jurisdiction unless a US port is involved.

 

and if that's true, then the service dog protection laws wouldn't apply either. Once 3 miles offshore, ask the dog owner what disability they have that the dog helps; ask the owner if you can offer food to the dog and if the dog eats it throw it overboard (the dog, not the food), and so on because maybe there are no laws that would apply.

 

It would be interesting to hear from a lawyer as to what laws pertain to what ships and at what point in the cruise. Surely someone governs what happens on ships at sea or crime would be rampant, etc.

[wizard-of-roz]

and if that's true, then the service dog protection laws wouldn't apply either. Once 3 miles offshore, ask the dog owner what disability they have that the dog helps; ask the owner if you can offer food to the dog and if the dog eats it throw it overboard (the dog, not the food), and so on because maybe there are no laws that would apply.

 

It would be interesting to hear from a lawyer as to what laws pertain to what ships and at what point in the cruise. Surely someone governs what happens on ships at sea or crime would be rampant, etc.

 

ADA and the Department of Justice does NOT protect the dog.....it protects the owner of the dog, therefore protecting whatever type of Service Animal the owner employs. A bit different when it's a human being were talking about and not a "simple" canine or equine.

[ghstudio]

ADA and the Department of Justice does NOT protect the dog.....it protects the owner of the dog, therefore protecting whatever type of Service Animal the owner employs. A bit different when it's a human being were talking about and not a "simple" canine or equine.

 

You're right...if the dog eats the food, throw the owner overboard:). The point is what laws does a cruise ship have to follow....that's for service dogs, safety, felony assaults, health, etc. I really don't know but I'm at least intellectually interested in finding out. If a dog eats off an mdr table, does any legal authority care?

[NLH Arizona]

You're right...if the dog eats the food, throw the owner overboard:). The point is what laws does a cruise ship have to follow....that's for service dogs, safety, felony assaults, health, etc. I really don't know but I'm at least intellectually interested in finding out. If a dog eats off an mdr table, does any legal authority care?

I believe ADA rules say that if a service dog misbehaves (pooping in public places), the company can make the dog leave the building, but that company has to offer up someone to fill the void, with a person to do the task that the dog does for their owner. The person with the pooping dog, who we all pretty much know is a pet, would leave as we'll, because after all, it is only about them bringing Fluffy with them. I think Celebrity should do it. For any dog that doesn't act according to ADA rules.