B2B and Jones Act

[Jim Avery]

It is not ok if it just stops in a foreign country - it must call in what is designated a "distant foreign port", a defined term.

 

It was designed to encourage US flagging of vessels, rather than foreign flagging, and protect a US owned fleet in case of war. Rather arcane at this point but nonetheless still US law.

 

That "distant foreign port" part has always puzzled me as it seems Ensenada qualifies.:eek::D

[BEAV]

That "distant foreign port" part has always puzzled me as it seems Ensenada qualifies.:eek::D

 

The "distant" foreign ports are identified as Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao and Cartegena.

 

Where are you thinking Ensenada qualifies as "distant" foreign?

[Colo Cruiser]

The "distant" foreign ports are identified as Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao and Cartegena.

 

Where are you thinking Ensenada qualifies as "distant" foreign?

 

 

On a Hawaii cruise.

[born2cruize]

That "distant foreign port" part has always puzzled me as it seems Ensenada qualifies.:eek::D

 

Simple really.

 

Different embarkation/debarkation US ports, must stop at "distant foreign port". Closed loop (same embarkation/debarkation US port), must stop at "near foreign port" (Victoria, BC or Ensenada for West Coast).

[BEAV]

On a Hawaii cruise.

 

Round trip (closed loop) Hawaii cruises from the same U.S. port (such as LA) do not have to stop at a "distant" foreign port. They simply have to stop at any foreign port, in this case Ensenada.

 

It's the one-way (open loop) cruises from one U.S. port to a different U.S. port that have the "distant" foreign port requirement.

[born2cruize]

On a Hawaii cruise.

 

Ensenada is not a distant foreign port. It is currently used as a "near foreign port for closed loops our of San Diego, LA and San Francisco. In the old days it was used as a embarkation/debarkation port for one way Hawaii cruises. The passengers would then be bussed to San Diego/LA or visa-versa. Not aware of any one way cruises from/to Hawaii that uses Ensenada as embarkation/debarkation port.

[Cruise Junky]

. In the old days it was used as a embarkation/debarkation port for one way Hawaii cruises. The passengers would then be bussed to San Diego/LA or visa-versa. Not aware of any one way cruises from/to Hawaii that uses Ensenada as embarkation/debarkation port.

 

Not even the old days. Celebrity did it up until last year and have now modified Solstice so she can get into Vancouver instead for her one ways to Hawaii.

[BEAV]

Not aware of any one way cruises from/to Hawaii that uses Ensenada as embarkation/debarkation port.

 

Up through last year (2013) Celebrity still did the one-way Honolulu-Ensenada cruises with two of their ships positioning to/from Asia/South Pacific and Alaska. They would do a Pacific Coastal cruise first (Vancouver-San Diego), then Ensenada-Honolulu on their way to Asia/South Pacific. But starting in 2014 they cut out the Pacific Coastal cruises and head to/from Hawaii from Vancouver, instead. I wouldn't be surprised if their change in itineraries was partly due to all the complaints and horror stories of the San Diego-Ensenada busing and the problems that arose from that massive transfer (upwards of 30 buses needed). Reports of buses breaking down, drivers getting lost and delays at the border crossing were common over on the Celebrity board.

[Jim Avery]

Simple really.

 

Different embarkation/debarkation US ports, must stop at "distant foreign port". Closed loop (same embarkation/debarkation US port), must stop at "near foreign port" (Victoria, BC or Ensenada for West Coast).

 

Thanks. That makes sense, sort of. Well, as much as anything else out of Washington.:eek::D

[Underwatr]

Legend of the Seas has a one-way cruise from Ensenada to Honolulu scheduled for May 2015.

[Colo Cruiser]

Ensenada is not a distant foreign port. It is currently used as a "near foreign port for closed loops our of San Diego, LA and San Francisco. In the old days it was used as a embarkation/debarkation port for one way Hawaii cruises. The passengers would then be bussed to San Diego/LA or visa-versa. Not aware of any one way cruises from/to Hawaii that uses Ensenada as embarkation/debarkation port.

 

 

 

Yes but still a requirement to stop there for "operational" reasons regardless.

[pablo222]

That "distant foreign port" part has always puzzled me as it seems Ensenada qualifies.:eek::D

 

More than anyone could ever want to know:

 

http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pvsa_icp_3.pdf

[Cruise Junky]

Yes but still a requirement to stop there for "operational" reasons regardless.

 

It's a requirement to stop there to satisfy the PVSA. Nothing to do with operational reasons. Every closed loop cruise from the US has to stop at a foreign port. The Alaska cruises out of Seattle use Victoria for this.

[BEAV]

It's a requirement to stop there to satisfy the PVSA. Nothing to do with operational reasons. Every closed loop cruise from the US has to stop at a foreign port. The Alaska cruises out of Seattle use Victoria for this.

 

Agreed. The only time we cruised round trip to Hawaii (from San Diego on Celebrity), although our stop in Ensenada was only 4 hours, the cruise line still scheduled shore excursions and passengers went ashore like any other port.

[caribill]

It's a requirement to stop there to satisfy the PVSA. Nothing to do with operational reasons. Every closed loop cruise from the US has to stop at a foreign port. The Alaska cruises out of Seattle use Victoria for this.

 

Princess says everything is for "operational reasons."

 

This includes the requirement to stop at Ensenada or Victoria.

[Cruise Junky]

Princess says everything is for "operational reasons."

 

This includes the requirement to stop at Ensenada or Victoria.

 

I guess complying with the PVSA does keep them operational :)

[caribill]

Just curious as to what the reasoning is behind this law that prevents embark/disembark from different ports but is ok if it stops in another country?

 

This law pre-dates modern cruising.

 

It continues to protect the American jobs on such vessels as Ferries between Alaska cities and passenger ships on the Mississippi River.

[born2cruize]

Not even the old days. Celebrity did it up until last year and have now modified Solstice so she can get into Vancouver instead for her one ways to Hawaii.

 

Up through last year (2013) Celebrity still did the one-way Honolulu-Ensenada cruises with two of their ships positioning to/from Asia/South Pacific and Alaska. They would do a Pacific Coastal cruise first (Vancouver-San Diego), then Ensenada-Honolulu on their way to Asia/South Pacific. But starting in 2014 they cut out the Pacific Coastal cruises and head to/from Hawaii from Vancouver, instead. I wouldn't be surprised if their change in itineraries was partly due to all the complaints and horror stories of the San Diego-Ensenada busing and the problems that arose from that massive transfer (upwards of 30 buses needed). Reports of buses breaking down, drivers getting lost and delays at the border crossing were common over on the Celebrity board.

 

For me, anything before yesterday is OLD DAYS. :)

[born2cruize]

Legend of the Seas has a one-way cruise from Ensenada to Honolulu scheduled for May 2015.

 

Missed that in my research. But then again I dismiss anything from RCI.

[Pam in CA]

It continues to protect the American jobs on such vessels as Ferries between Alaska cities and passenger ships on the Mississippi River.

The Jones Act was also implemented to save US shipbuilding and shipbuilding jobs. I read an article this week that Aker, a large international shipbuilding company, is building commercial ships in their Philadelphia yard with more ships on order. These ships will be able to transport goods between one US port and another. Under the Jones Act, ships built in the US can be US-flagged.

[gotta cruise again]

DH and I will be in Pacific northwest in September and wanted to take advantage of a couple of cruises. Checked with my TA today and was told we'd be in violation to do a 1-day Seattle to Vancouver immediately followed by a 3-day Vancouver to Los Angeles. Said that Princess would not book us on those 2 cruises even if we disembarked the first and re-boarded (as if new pax) the next one. Both are on the same ship.

 

Of course, it would be easier to be able to not have to pack/unpack/repack/unpack/repack :eek: !! But we'd do just that to be able to do these two. It's our anniversary so it would be fun to get in a few quick days at sea ;)

 

Anyone have any different insight?? :confused:

[Cruisin' Chick]

DH and I will be in Pacific northwest in September and wanted to take advantage of a couple of cruises. Checked with my TA today and was told we'd be in violation to do a 1-day Seattle to Vancouver immediately followed by a 3-day Vancouver to Los Angeles. Said that Princess would not book us on those 2 cruises even if we disembarked the first and re-boarded (as if new pax) the next one. Both are on the same ship.

 

Of course, it would be easier to be able to not have to pack/unpack/repack/unpack/repack :eek: !! But we'd do just that to be able to do these two. It's our anniversary so it would be fun to get in a few quick days at sea ;)

 

Anyone have any different insight?? :confused:

If you switch ships (even though that does mean packing), you won't be in violation. With such short cruises, maybe if you don't unpack most of your items -- maybe just your toiletries and the outfit you're going to wear for dinner, you might not have as much bother other than disembarkating and embarking in the same day.

[gotta cruise again]

We would certainly switch ships if there was one to switch too...unfortunately, both are on the same ship. We could just do the 1-day since near Seattle or drive to Vancouver and catch the 3-day but it sure would be nice to do both.

 

I'd still like to hear if anyone has other thoughts, please; my fingers are crossed this can be figured out!

[BEAV]

We were faced with the same problem a few years ago on HAL. We were told that in order to make a Seattle-Vancouver-LA voyage legal, we'd have to spend at least 24 hours (translation: overnight) in Vancouver. It's possible you could do a same-day switch of ships in Vancouver (if such a possibility even exists) as Crusin' Chick suggests.

 

We got a little further than you in that HAL actually booked us on the illegal B2B, issued our documents, etc. It was 10 days prior to sailing that we were notified of the illegality of the itinerary. How did that happen? U.S. Customs/Border Protection agency was reviewing the manifests of both sailings, checking to see if anyone was booked on both voyages, and our names red-flagged in their system. We weren't trying to "beat the system", but rather had no idea of the laws that prohibit this kind of itinerary at that time. It was a painful way to learn about the PVSA and its requirements!

Edited June 25, 2014 by BEAV

[likeadisguise]

We would certainly switch ships if there was one to switch too...unfortunately, both are on the same ship. We could just do the 1-day since near Seattle or drive to Vancouver and catch the 3-day but it sure would be nice to do both.

 

I'd still like to hear if anyone has other thoughts, please; my fingers are crossed this can be figured out!

 

Unfortunately, on one ship, this would be a violation. There's really no way around it.

 

Maybe just do the Vancouver to Los Angeles cruise?