Tipping on P&O

[davecttr]

Sorry Davecttr but if I left auto tips on I would definately not tip extra. I am sure that the staff that receive tips directly have found a way of getting it into their pocket. If P&O put the tips into the cost of the holiday it wouldn,t put me off as I wouldn,t know they had done it. I don,t think it would make it more expensive, it would still be cheaper than Thomsons , for the cruise we are going on anyway. It just annoys me that P&O think we should pay a set amount , up front, for a service that should be the norm. Lots of people work very hard , with a smile on their face, in the hospitility industry. With no tips. I am sure that I have read on another thread that the tips aren,t shared out amongst all the staff anyway, so what is the point!

there is nothing wrong with doing that.

 

the reason auto tips are there is because passengers are becoming more reluctant to tip at all. When i see all those people removing their auto tips what pops into my mind? Just how many of them don't intend to tip at all or shaft the steward by putting a tea bag in the envelope etc etc. It makes me mad :mad:

 

Include the tip in the fare which is the same as giving the staff a small pay rise. Then people can tip extra if they want.

[solostar]

Exactly.Tips included in fare is the way to go. There is no way I would try and trick anyone with the tea bag trick. I don,t think I would even use the envelope !!!

[jeanlyon]

Why does it mean people don't tip because they remove them at the beginning. They just prefer to tip personally. We did that for years before auto-tips came in. If the included it in the price, it would take away all this rubbish.

[davecttr]

Why does it mean people don't tip because they remove them at the beginning. They just prefer to tip personally. We did that for years before auto-tips came in. If the included it in the price, it would take away all this rubbish.

It doesn't automatically mean they won't tip but i bet some don't intend to.

[CCFC]

Why does it mean people don't tip because they remove them at the beginning. They just prefer to tip personally. We did that for years before auto-tips came in. If the included it in the price, it would take away all this rubbish.

 

I have met people on a cruise who have no intention of tipping, that's why they got rid of the envelopes on the last day of the cruise as the dining room was half full. We are heading to the Oz way of cruising the way it is going with tips included.

 

I borrowed this summary from another post but it makes a lot of sense:

 

Why are tips not included in the fare?

 

There are advantages to line, crew and passengers by doing it this way. For the crew, many of them pay a fee to their agency based on their contracted pay rate. Tips are not included in that rate, any guaranteed income (which is what it would be if included in fare) would be. Thus, the staff keeps a higher percentage of tips.

 

For the line, they pay less on contract, which helps them keep fares appearing lower, plus there are tax advantages. The downside is the effort involved in administering the system.

 

For passengers, the hotel charge is not charged until on board. This means it does not have to appear on a credit card charge 75 days out and does not have to be counted for taxes and trip insurance costs as it would if included in the fare.

[jeanlyon]

But you see they haven't got rid of the envelopes on the last night because lots of folk still do it that way.

[Sanjam cruisers]

Hi to all

I have read with interest all the threads about tipping/gratuities on numerous cruise line boards. On all boards numerous people go on about the poor wages paid to staff by the individual cruise companies, where do they get hold of the cruise line wage rates because I have never seen them published. As someone who wished a seagoing career in their youth I have always made a point of speaking to crew members aboard ship and I have never been informed by any of them that they are poorly paid. But what they all say is the EARN more money aboard ship than they would working in a good quality hotel back home, and that includes tips. Last year we met a Phillipines waitress who we have met on our least three cruises she supports her whole family at home on her ship earnings, her husband is also at sea and between them they look after the greater family, they have bought a plot of land to build a home for themselves when they decide to give up life at sea. Do the cruise lines have difficulty getting staff, No there are queues at the staffing agency's to get a position aboard the cruise ships, the applicants know they will have to work hard and long hours but they will Make money, I cannot speak for other cruise lines but as far as I am aware P&O staff are paid wages plus those on the hotel side get shares of tips, they get board, lodgings, free medical care on board, airfares paid to and from ship and as long as they meet performance targets they will get a new contract.

Tips for cabin waiters works out at 2x£3.95 x 14 = £110.60 for a 14 day cruise based on looking after 10 cabins that is £1,106 per cruise in tips plus wages.

They work a nine month contract if everybody pays their tips that is £19,908 plus wages. Not that poorly paid there are people in the UK earning less on minimum wage. I pay my auto gratuities with no complaint as I look at it as part of the cruise pricing, during my cruises I have met staff who in my opinion have went that wee bit further to make my cruise experience more enjoyable and I will tip a lit bit extra. My way of looking at is I worked hard to get to where I am now and these crew members are just working hard as I did, in my job you did not get tips but if by passing on a couple of pounds I can help make their life a bit easier I will it's only a pint less for me. We have now been cruising long enough with P&O where we meet staff that know us and they always remember us and look after us well. It's only money you can't take it to the grave, if you can afford to pay a cruise fare you can afford the the minimum tip.

No doubt I will get shot down in flames from some some quarters so be it, happy cruising to you all tip payers or not.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Sanjam cruisers

[CCFC]

But you see they haven't got rid of the envelopes on the last night because lots of folk still do it that way.

 

The dining rooms are still emptier than they would be though, the envelopes can be used to over-tip too not just do the normal tips.

 

Anyway they don't get to keep what's in the envelope so I really don't see the point. Tips are an American invention and us UK folk don't see why we should tip in the first place. If you remove tips and don't put money in the envelope then you don't get penalised in any way, a lot of new cruisers are realising that.

[jeanlyon]

They do get to keep what's in the envelope if it's on top of the auto-tips, though how the management work out if the person giving the tip has auto-paid beats me.

 

One crew member I spoke to when I tipped him said he got to keep the tips, so who knows really what happens.

[CCFC]

Tips for cabin waiters works out at 2x£3.95 x 14 = £110.60 for a 14 day cruise based on looking after 10 cabins that is £1,106 per cruise in tips plus wages.

They work a nine month contract if everybody pays their tips that is £19,908 plus wages. Not that poorly paid there are people in the UK earning less on minimum wage.

 

The tips are not just for the cabin "waiters" it covers a lot of other people too.

[Sanjam cruisers]

Hi ccfc

What other staff members does it cover and from where do you get that information because from the info provided by P&O that Does not inferr that.

[BrianI]

On P&O, the tips are for the restaurant waiters and cabin staff only.

Bar & wine waiters do not get a share of the tips but get a commission on what they sell.

Brian

[Sanjam cruisers]

Hi CCFC

I do apologise you are of course correct the auto gratuities are also shared by the Main Dining Room waiters so you are correct . The main comment that I was trying to address was the misapprehension that the hotel staff are poorly paid.

From speaking to staff positions on the cruise ships are very sought after and the cruise companies have their pick of the best staff.

[CCFC]

I agree about the sought after staff and they have a choice if they want to work there or not.

 

Mike (its in my signature unless you have them hidden!)

Edited August 7, 2014 by CCFC

[majortom10]

Hi ccfc

What other staff members does it cover and from where do you get that information because from the info provided by P&O that Does not inferr that.

 

Well the £3-95pppd is paid to cabin steward,waiter and assistant waiter so even if nobody else is paid out of it that throws your wage configuration completely out of the window. So lets say cabin steward gets £1-50 then using your formula it is £3 per cabin of 2 people x 14nts x10 cabins which equals £420 per 14nt cruise so a big difference in your estimation of £1106 from your totally wrong assumption that cabin steward keeps it all which he doesnt.

 

So as the old saying goes dont let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Edited August 7, 2014 by majortom10

[daiB]

Well the £3-95pppd is paid to cabin steward,waiter and assistant waiter so even if nobody else is paid out of it that throws your wage configuration completely out of the window. So lets say cabin steward gets £1-50 then using your formula it is £3 per cabin of 2 people x 14nts x10 cabins which equals £420 per 14nt cruise so a big difference in your estimation of £1106 from your totally wrong assumption that cabin steward keeps it all which he doesnt.

 

So as the old saying goes dont let facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

 

There is of course the hidden tipping or payment. The he cabin stewards for example pass some of their tips down to the young staff who help them on changeover day. The lads in the light blue jackets.

 

But that has been the way it has worked for years. Nothing to do with the present tipping system.

 

 

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[Sanjam cruisers]

Hi Majortom

My miscalculation throw my tips calculation out the window not the entire statement, I got carried away with my maths(never a strong point and why I did not get my career at sea), but I still argue that their wages are not that poor or the cruise companies would not be able to staff their ships. The wages maybe poor by our standards but not by theirs. The point I am trying to make is that we continually hear that the hotel staff are poorly paid, if the cruise lines were to pay all hotel staff the UK minimum wage the fares would go up to a level where only the well off/very well off could afford to cruise and put cruising back where it was about 40/50 years ago. I appreciate that P&O is part of a US conglomerate and to date is charging tips below most US levels perhaps the US lines pay less in wages, I remember asking a Phillipino crew member why they were working for P&O as opposed to Celebrity or any other US based line, the answer I got was " If I take a contract with a US based line I have to pay a bond to stop me jumping ship in the US". Obviously I cannot verify the accuracy of that statement. On a recent holiday in the USA I found the tipping culture overwhelming it cost me a fortune.

[PurpleMoonlight]

The passenger to crew ratio is approximately 2.3:1. Some passengers opt out of auto tipping and not all crew get a share, but assume the ratio remains constant.

 

So, one crew will receive £9 per day from auto tipping, less than £1 per working hour.

[BalkanCruiser]

All these calculations of what staff get via tips are interesting but for me irrelevant. There should be no need for tips as the amount involved should be included in the cost of the cruise. Yes that means a slight increase in cruise price but the problems it saves are worth it. Tipping has got completely out of hand IMO and is clearly being used by the likes of P&O to keep wages down and in so doing make the cost of the cruise appear slightly cheaper.

 

If we are to have tipping it should have nothing to do with P&O. It should be no business of theirs what we choose to tip a member of the cruise ship staff. It is the responsibility of P&O to pay their staff fairly and that should not include assuming we will tip X amount per person per day.

[jeanlyon]

Couldn't agree more.

[solostar]

I agree with that as well, that is exactly how it should be.

[livgarb]

We have just got back from a cruise and yes we were one of the ones who removed our gratuities, mainly because we didn't agree how the money was spilt. I thought that anyone who served us drinks would get a share of the gratitude. So got them removed near the end of the trip and left tips for our usual bar ppl at the end.

 

 

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[dsrdsrdsr]

We have just got back from a cruise and yes we were one of the ones who removed our gratuities, mainly because we didn't agree how the money was spilt. I thought that anyone who served us drinks would get a share of the gratitude. So got them removed near the end of the trip and left tips for our usual bar ppl at the end.

 

 

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If you're still talking about P&O, the bar staff got a 15% tip for every drink you bought. If you removed the auto-tips and gave the same amount split differently, it means that you gave the bar staff extra tips at the expense of your stewards and waiters.

[dsrdsrdsr]

The passenger to crew ratio is approximately 2.3:1. Some passengers opt out of auto tipping and not all crew get a share, but assume the ratio remains constant.

 

So, one crew will receive £9 per day from auto tipping, less than £1 per working hour.

No. The cabin stewards and the waiters receive tips from the £3.95 auto tips. No-one else gets anything, they're all on salary (apart from the bar staff who get 15%).

[insanemagnet]

On P&O, the tips are for the restaurant waiters and cabin staff only.

Bar & wine waiters do not get a share of the tips but get a commission on what they sell.

 

Which is why you get the stupid situation of

- The waiter brings the menu, but not the wine list

- The waiter comes back to take your order

- The wine waiter eventually appears, and then seems shocked that you actually want to read the wine list

 

Whether the wine waiter then managed to get back, take the order, and bring the wine to the table, before the waiter brought the starters was not frequent. So if it was a warm starter, then it gets sent back, until the wine waiter does their job.

 

There were some days when the wine waiter had not even made an initial appearance just to hand over the wine list, before the starters arrived. And that was even after asking the waiter if he could ask the wine waiter to come over.

 

And I pay a commission for this poor service?