This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Mrponderosakid]

I left a message for customer service in Seattle to call me last week and I also gave my item report number that the front desk manager from the ship gave me. I will let you know how they respond.

[sail7seas]

I left a message for customer service in Seattle to call me last week and I also gave my item report number that the front desk manager from the ship gave me. I will let you know how they respond.

 

 

Thank you for sharing with us. We;ll be eager to hear what recation you get from /Seattle headquuarters

[Turtles06]

I left a message for customer service in Seattle to call me last week and I also gave my item report number that the front desk manager from the ship gave me. I will let you know how they respond.

 

Thanks for pursuing this, and please do let us know what they say. We have never cruised with HAL because of the permissive smoking policy, but with the new rules, we recently booked our first HAL cruise (for 2018). I certainly will be looking to see if they enforce the no-smoking rules, and can only hope that what you experienced was unfortunately due to the newness of the rules (though still inexcusable).

[ne1travel]

Did you also have smoking issues on the Princess line?

 

 

The three Princess Cruises we took we have never had an issue with balcony smoke.

[ne1travel]

Did you also have smoking issues on the Princess line?

 

 

The three Princess Cruises we took we have never had an issue with balcony smoke.

[david,Mississauga]

It didn't take too long, did it, before those of us who predicted that stopping smoking on balconies would not put an end to the complaints were proved right....

 

It appears from postings on this thread that there are some passengers who think the no-smoking on balcony rule doesn't apply to them and that the ship's management will do nothing about it. Is it unreasonable for complaints to come from those who have expectation that the rules will be obeyed and, if necessary, enforced?

 

 

HAL enforces other rules quite stringently: just try to smuggle aboard more than two bottles of wine or any quantity of spirits. Of course, that issue affects profits rather than the health and comfort of passengers.

[cruisemom42]

It appears from postings on this thread that there are some passengers who think the no-smoking on balcony rule doesn't apply to them and that the ship's management will do nothing about it. Is it unreasonable for complaints to come from those who have expectation that the rules will be obeyed and, if necessary, enforced?

 

 

 

 

The post you quote was made earlier, prior to recent discussion of people ignoring the recent balcony smoking change. I was referring to those complaining about smokers smoking where they are allowed to smoke.

[Mrponderosakid]

I spoke with HAL customer service today and I was informed that they are trying to figure out the best way to enforce the balcony no smoking rule. The representative I spoke with was very apologetic but I suspect they don't have any idea how to get people to comply as the non smoking policy is not followed on Carnival and Norwegian.

[Charlie1422]

I spoke with HAL customer service today and I was informed that they are trying to figure out the best way to enforce the balcony no smoking rule. The representative I spoke with was very apologetic but I suspect they don't have any idea how to get people to comply as the non smoking policy is not followed on Carnival and Norwegian.

Thanks for the follow up. I was unaware that Carnival and Norwegian were having trouble enforcing their rules as well. Hopefully they'll figure it out soon.

 

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[bUU]

Enforcement through banning something on embarkation is far easier that interceding when a passenger is violating a rule mid-cruise.

[Charlie1422]

Enforcement through banning something on embarkation is far easier that interceding when a passenger is violating a rule mid-cruise.

So are you saying don't enforce the rules because they're too hard?

 

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[bUU]

No. I'm saying that enforcement through banning something on embarkation is far easier that interceding when a passenger is violating a rule mid-cruise.

[Charlie1422]

No. I'm saying that enforcement through banning something on embarkation is far easier that interceding when a passenger is violating a rule mid-cruise.

What I'm saying is just because it may be hard to enforce, you don't stop taking the actions necessary to enforce the rule. Otherwise why have the rule in the first place?

 

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[DrKoob]

No. I'm saying that enforcement through banning something on embarkation is far easier that interceding when a passenger is violating a rule mid-cruise.

 

 

What would you ban? People are still allowed to smoke. You treat this exactly like hotels do with non-smoking rooms. A huge cleaning fee on the first offense and disembarkation at the next port at their own expense on the second offense, which would be the last.

[Charlie1422]

There are places on the ship where people are allowed to smoke. I said nothing about banning that. Your solution for enforcement of the veranda rule seems reasonable to me.

 

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[alwaysfrantic]

What would you ban? People are still allowed to smoke. You treat this exactly like hotels do with non-smoking rooms. A huge cleaning fee on the first offense and disembarkation at the next port at their own expense on the second offense, which would be the last.

I agree.

[bUU]

What I'm saying is just because it may be hard to enforce, you don't stop taking the actions necessary to enforce the rule. Otherwise why have the rule in the first place?

That's simply not the way rules work in the real world. Reliance on enforcement is inherently less efficient and costly, as compared to reliance on voluntary compliance. Voluntary compliance, and the expectation for it, are always part of the calculus of rule-making, as is consideration of a marginal amount of violation as acceptable (by the rule-maker, albeit not those adversely affected by the violations). Bans are easier to apply, since they have a single point of enforcement. If a ban is not acceptable, then the cruise line will invariably choose to accept a marginal amount of violation rather than incurring a substantial cost of adding myriad points of enforcement.

 

We may not like it, but it is the reality.

[Charlie1422]

That's simply not the way rules work in the real world. Reliance on enforcement is inherently less efficient and costly, as compared to reliance on voluntary compliance. Voluntary compliance, and the expectation for it, are always part of the calculus of rule-making, as is consideration of a marginal amount of violation as acceptable (by the rule-maker, albeit not those adversely affected by the violations). We may not like it, but it is the reality.

I live in the real world. I enforced the rules (Laws) for 25 years. I didn't just enforce the easy ones.

 

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[whogo]

Perhaps HAL decided to permit smoking on a few balconies during that cruise as their smoking policy allows. "Holland America Line reserves the right at any time to modify the smoking policy onboard or alter the locations where smoking is permissible." http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Shipboard+Life&contentMenu=Onboard+Policies&contentSubMenu=Is+Smoking+Allowed+On+Board?

[Charlie1422]

I doubt seriously that they would alter their smoking policy mid cruise

 

 

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[3rdGenCunarder]

I live in the real world. I enforced the rules (Laws) for 25 years. I didn't just enforce the easy ones.

 

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Thank you! For both that answer and your service.

 

Disclosure: I am a nonsmoker and I hate smoking. BUT I do not believe that a total ban is the answer. Carnival tried it on one ship and they gave up. Granted, that was more than 10 years ago. But it still wouldn't work. If they don't allow people to smoke somewhere on the ship, they will lose business. The balcony ban probably is bringing in more people than it's losing, but I think a total ban isn't likely to bring in more.

 

A total ban is also hard to enforce. It would definitely slow down the x-ray/search process.

[Mrponderosakid]

The Hal rep also told me she was directing my complaint to the upper management. I asked her to please contact me again after they had more information on how they would proceed with the enforcement and then I would reconsider her offer of an on board credit due to my unsatisfactory experience.if I am grateful that my cruise was only 10 days in duration. I am on vacation to relax not to battle this problem.

[bUU]

I live in the real world. I enforced the rules (Laws) for 25 years. I didn't just enforce the easy ones.

Rules aren't laws. The extent to which such things defer to the impact on the "customer" (and not just the customer that is you, personally, but all customers, collectively and individually) is a major difference between running a government and running a business.

[Turtles06]

You treat this exactly like hotels do with non-smoking rooms. A huge cleaning fee on the first offense and disembarkation at the next port at their own expense on the second offense, which would be the last.

 

Agreed. (At the very least.) Celebrity has a successful no-smoking policy that bans smoking on balconies.. Surely HAL can do it too.

[DrKoob]

Agreed. (At the very least.) Celebrity has a successful no-smoking policy that bans smoking on balconies.. Surely HAL can do it too.

 

 

And that is exactly how X enforces it. If HAL would put one or two smokers off a ship, on their own then you can bet that event would spread like wildfire through these boards and elsewhere. It would become urban (maritime) legend and then it wouldn't happen again.

 

Maybe we can just start the legend and skip getting anyone kicked off a ship. :D