This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[CRUZBUDS]

We will be some of those filling those HAL Verandah cabins now .

Perhaps there are many others like us ,that have avoided HAL until now due to the Verandah smoking issues?

 

We immediately booked a HAL cruise with a balcony as soon as we heard the news. We're looking forward to the Westerdam next month and sailing with HAL again. :)

[IRL_Joanie]

May I ask if your husband is part of the Aleutian Ballad crew? We love the crew so much.

 

No he is not.

 

The owner, Dave, and his family and I became friends a few years ago when they started the Excursion. Heck My beloved Aleutian Ballad Jacket I bought right off his back in the wheelhouse:) (see attachment)

 

 

2 Years ago Dave, Roger and I sat down and made all the arrangements for my Dispersal of Ashes. So all hubby has to do is to book an Alaska cruise, call Dave with date he will be there and.......

 

Joanie

[sammiedawg]

No he is not.

 

The owner, Dave, and his family and I became friends a few years ago when they started the Excursion. Heck My beloved Aleutian Ballad Jacket I bought right off his back in the wheelhouse:) (see attachment)

 

[ATTACH]400143[/ATTACH]

 

2 Years ago Dave, Roger and I sat down and made all the arrangements for my Dispersal of Ashes. So all hubby has to do is to book an Alaska cruise, call Dave with date he will be there and.......

 

Joanie

 

Thanks for sharing a great picture!

[Liz54]

Its a mystery to me how the following can be true

Fewer and fewer smokers on HAL due to the wealthy and extra intelligent demographic...(see earlier posts) BUT

These minute numbers of smokers were able to upset the 90% of those who do not smoke.

 

When smoking was permitted on Princess balconies, we always introduced ourselves to our balcony neighbours and indicated that we hoped smoking would not cause them any discomfort. In EVERY case they were mystified by the question and expressed that they were not bothered.

 

The rude chain smoking cigar smoker on the balcony cannot statistically be located on the next balcony to ALL the non smokers here. Or many more than 15% are smokers and they are all trash? People need to relax.

 

I discount 100% the complaints I hear from smokers who make their way to the very remote top deck locations where smoking is allowed and walk through with handkerchiefs over their mouths. Always a few every day.

 

I can and do confine myself to the one or two places smoking is allowed. And I meet great easy going people there, so I am fine. No need to pay extra for a balcony.

[sandij]

I've always thought there were more smokers than the numbers appear to indicate. My theory is more people who consider themselves non-smokers do partake while on vacation or while drinking or while gambling. You only have to look at the crowds in the puny smoking areas to realize that there are more smokers than the percentages say.

[bUU]

When smoking was permitted on Princess balconies, we always introduced ourselves to our balcony neighbours and indicated that we hoped smoking would not cause them any discomfort. In EVERY case they were mystified by the question and expressed that they were not bothered.

I wouldn't necessarily put too much stock that. When I was younger I would be too insecure to tell a smoker, especially an elder, that I objected to their smoking near me, and that was even in places where it was actually illegal. I was brought up to respect and defer to elders, even when I knew they were in the wrong. I'm not even sure I can recall a single instance when I was younger than forty that I ever said anything to a smoker about their smoking. I think I would have considered it rude to be honest about how their smoking bothered me.

[kazu]

I've always thought there were more smokers than the numbers appear to indicate. My theory is more people who consider themselves non-smokers do partake while on vacation or while drinking or while gambling. You only have to look at the crowds in the puny smoking areas to realize that there are more smokers than the percentages say.

That is a very strong possiblity. I have two friends who both quit but do smoke when they drink or are on vacation. They are the lucky ones that can do it, then not smoke at all and not be bothered by withdrawal.

Edited December 14, 2016 by kazu

[Sailor_Sally]

I completed my last survey, following our 21 day Osterdam cruise which ended last Friday. I had always said that when we could no longer smoke on our verandah, we would stop cruising. And so we have. We just became 4 star mariners in August on a 24 day European cruise on the Eurdodam, and received our bronze medals for 100 plus actual sea days, all in Neptune Suites. It shall remain to be seen whether HAL will fill it's verandah staterooms. We have met many smokers who share this feeling.

 

The good news is that, if we wanted, we can now buy a new BMW 700 series every 2 years, for what we were spending on our cruises.

 

Adieu, sweet HAL!!

 

 

You keep posting the same thing . Do you really think HAL will change the rule back ? All the major lines have changed and none have reversed the decision . Sorry but smoking on a balcony is over .

[sammiedawg]

I'm astonished that some think smokers are undercounted. I can honestly say in 2016 no one in my friend and family circle smokes with one exception (An out of state niece by marriage). Sadly the smokers in my past lives are dead.

[teamflames]

Good news for us, we enjoyed our Kiningsdam cruise but said we wouldn't sail Hal again with that smoking policy. We will add them back to our list - who knows maybe use them for Alaska this year considering how good their reputation is in that region

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Forums

[bUU]

I'm astonished that some think smokers are undercounted.

I think the perception that smokers are "undercounted" is a guess absent of evidence. Those making that guess are seeing the relative sparsity of smoking venues and how smokers are effectively corralled uncomfortably close together and making the baseless leap of judgment that that means that those who decided how much room would be set aside for smokers didn't know that they'd be creating these uncomfortably crowded areas. It seems more likely that the decision-makers knew what they were creating, and their decisions are deliberate.

 

Setting aside a smoking area precludes that space from being used for other uses. The larger and more prominent it is the more it will be recognized as a nuisance by vigorous anti-smokers. While perhaps the first few cruise lines that made this switch had to worry about where was the correct balance between smokers and anti-smokers, Holland America, as a laggard in the industry, has no such worry. They can readily see where the balance should be struck for the best impact on the bottom line.

 

For decades people lived in a smoking-as-standard society and even though we're decades past that those who lived through those years cannot help but recall when almost 100% of every venue was "for smokers". For many, even us non-smokers who lived through "the smokers' era" (for lack of a better term), there is a sense of abnormality about smokers being crowded together, in some out of the way corner. There must be some sense among some smokers that what's right is "separate but equal" facilities, rather than today's reality, where smokers are being treated as anti-smokers were treated back-in-the-day.

[Aquahound]

They will fill them easily. I would say more easily than before.

 

I agree.

 

Besides, people think they are somehow making the cruise line worry because the line is losing a few very loyal customers. I hate to break it to these people but no matter how much of a show the cruise line puts on to loyal guests, they would much rather have new cruisers than a high number of repeats. New cruisers tend to spend more money on frivolous things and don't collect all the freebies handed out by HAL to those in the loyalty program.

 

I will not throw a pity party for someone who chooses not to cruise anymore because of smoking policy changes. They didn't care what they did to their non-smoking neighbors, so I'm not going to care that they now choose to stay home.

[OceanTraveller4ever]

The new HAL policy is lot when smoking was no longer allowed in bars and restaurants. The smokers were sure that the bars and restaurants would go under without them. ----wrong-----

 

The bars/restos are doing better now without the cancerous noxious element. In fact they were booming after the stoppage.

 

HAL is still being quite magnanimous towards smokers allowing them choice spots to smoke on the ship.

 

It is sad that there are still egotistical smokers that think annoying so many other passengers was always their right......

Edited December 16, 2016 by OceanTraveller4ever

[Liz54]

The new HAL policy is lot when smoking was no longer allowed in bars and restaurants. The smokers were sure that the bars and restaurants would go under without them. ----wrong-----

 

The bars/restos are doing better now without the cancerous noxious element. In fact they were booming after the stoppage.

 

HAL is still being quite magnanimous towards smokers allowing them choice spots to smoke on the ship.

 

It is sad that there are still egotistical smokers that think annoying so many other passengers was always their right......

 

Can you elaborate on these "choice spots".?

[OceanTraveller4ever]

Can you elaborate on these "choice spots".?

 

Under the second boiler with the rats :)

 

LOL.... kidding aside....the lido pool aft starboard......that is pretty choice.

[crxman80224]

Hello everyone, I was looking to get some feedback from anyone that booked directly through Holland America. Did you receive any notice of the policy change? How did eveyone find about the change?

We are smokers and understand and agree with the change in policy. Two things that I see creating problems are the e-cigs in room and only one area to smoke on several ships. Going to be a crowded area by the sea view pool with even more unhappy people not wanting to be near.

[Hlitner]

Hello everyone, I was looking to get some feedback from anyone that booked directly through Holland America. Did you receive any notice of the policy change? How did eveyone find about the change?

We are smokers and understand and agree with the change in policy. Two things that I see creating problems are the e-cigs in room and only one area to smoke on several ships. Going to be a crowded area by the sea view pool with even more unhappy people not wanting to be near.

 

What you say about the sea view pool is certainly correct. Even before the policy change we avoid this area unless the prevailing winds are blowing the smoke away from the opposite side of the deck. We just debarked from the Celebrity Eclipse where they have a designated smoking area on the aft portside section of the main outdoor pool area. An awful lot of passengers have learned to stay far away from that area and even the deck chair area that is on the sun deck above.

 

Hank

[iancal]

There is a demographic associated with smokers.

 

What would HAL rather have. Seniors who still smoke or well educated, higher income millennials, some with families, who want to cruise.

 

IF I operated a cruise line I know what my long term target market would be and I would do everything to move my company and my product in that direction.

 

HAL`s decision was a very simple business decision. They are going to where the puck is and not where it was in the past. This is just good business. This is not about penalizing smokers or judging them.

Edited December 23, 2016 by iancal

[Tom O.]

Hello everyone, I was looking to get some feedback from anyone that booked directly through Holland America. Did you receive any notice of the policy change? How did eveyone find about the change?

We are smokers and understand and agree with the change in policy. Two things that I see creating problems are the e-cigs in room and only one area to smoke on several ships. Going to be a crowded area by the sea view pool with even more unhappy people not wanting to be near.

 

We have a cruise we booked a year ago for mid January, 2017. I didn't receive anything from HAL telling us of the policy change. The only reason I know about the policy is from being a regular here on CC.

The new policy was in the cruise contract when we checked in, but it was buried deep in the fine print. I doubt if many people even read the contract.

I suspect there are going to be a lot of shocked smokers on my cruise! I hope they don't mutiny!

[marycruz]

What you say about the sea view pool is certainly correct. Even before the policy change we avoid this area unless the prevailing winds are blowing the smoke away from the opposite side of the deck. We just debarked from the Celebrity Eclipse where they have a designated smoking area on the aft portside section of the main outdoor pool area. An awful lot of passengers have learned to stay far away from that area and even the deck chair area that is on the sun deck above.

 

Hank

 

Do you know if the sea view pool area is sheltered at all on Eurodam or if it's pretty much open to the elements?

[WpgCruise]

What would HAL rather have. Seniors who still smoke or well educated, higher income millennials, some with families, who want to cruise.

 

I agree that the future is higher income millennials, some with families, and my question would then be, what is HAL doing to differentiate themselves in the Market to attract this demographic?

 

Simply curtailing balcony smoking isn't going to attract the target Market. Royal Caribbean for the millennial with children, Celebrity for empty nester Baby Boomers, what can HAL offer to attract those clients from the competition ?

[blizzardboy]

If I had a dollar for every poster on this and especially other forums mentioning HAL's former policy on veranda smoking as a reason why they wouldn't sail HAL, our upcoming cruise would have been paid for. HAL stands to gain far more business from the new policy that what they might lose from smokers "jumping ship".

I can't believe I'm posting on this thread again. Smokers, get over the change in policy, wear some nicotine gum, chew a patch, or stay home, but by all means...have a Merry Christmas!

bb

Edited December 23, 2016 by blizzardboy

[Turtles06]

Simply curtailing balcony smoking isn't going to attract the target Market. Royal Caribbean for the millennial with children, Celebrity for empty nester Baby Boomers, what can HAL offer to attract those clients from the competition ?

 

My wife and I are Baby Boomers and veteran cruisers (we love Celebrity), but we've never cruised HAL before, and HAL's smoking policy was the sole reason. There was only ONE thing HAL needed to do to attract us from the competition and they did it -- they banned smoking on balconies. I've created a Mariner account and we are now eagerly awaiting the release of the 2018 TA itineraries, and may well book one in each direction, and hopefully more HAL cruises to follow. :)

[kennicott]

I agree.

 

I hate to break it to these people but no matter how much of a show the cruise line puts on to loyal guests, they would much rather have new cruisers than a high number of repeats. New cruisers tend to spend more money on frivolous things and don't collect all the freebies handed out by HAL to those in the loyalty program.

 

That's interesting, I agree that new cruisers probably spend money on frivolous things and that older cruisers get a few freebies per the loyalty programs, but it is my understanding that the long term seasoned voyager spends more money per cruise than does the stereotype new cruiser to the game, a lot more. That is, sort of, born out by economic studies done here in Alaska in order to determine which demographic, how much and for what these visitors account for. Be interesting to see detailed quantitative data on the subject, bet the cruise lines won't share though.

[RuthC]

Do you know if the sea view pool area is sheltered at all on Eurodam or if it's pretty much open to the elements?

Yes, there is an area that is covered and somewhat enclosed. It's fairly protected from the elements, even in cold, rainy, weather.