Royal: If you want to charge premium prices, go back to giving a premium product

[Dave85]

I just got done looking at all the photos of the new Quantum and I am very impressed. The ship is gorgeous. Compared to the other lines I've sailed, including the beautiful Celebrity Solstice, I truly believe RCI still does offer a premium product.

 

 

Agreed, the ship looks beautiful and I'm a bit bummed I will miss it. Not to worry, I'm sure Anthem (which I have booked) will be every bit as impressive.

 

 

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[phoenix_dream]

There is no question that cruising is still a good value for the money overall, but there is also no doubt that in recent years prices have been rising just about as quickly as cut-backs in service, services, etc..

 

People point out that compared to 20 years ago, we are still paying less per person. True. But when making this comparison one needs to seriously consider the considerable cost savings that scaling provides. The cost per passenger on a mega-ship is way lower than the cost per passenger on the average vessel of 20 years ago. One also needs to consider that way back when the costs were sky high because they could! There were a lot fewer berths to fill so they could charge what the public would bear. How do you think they got the money to enlarge their fleets so substantially??? They were charging more than they needed just to make a profit; they were charging as much as they could to grow and grow and grow. It blows my mind that people can't see this.

 

At the same time, people also blindingly accept the concept that prices need to rise, and cuts need to be made because the price of everything is going up. Oh really? Compare the percentage increases in costs over the past five years for food, fuel, staffing, supplies, etc.. and I guarantee you that you will see a much larger percentage increase in fares than in costs. Have costs risen somewhat? Of course. But inflation has been quite low compared to years ago. So once again, it is not about making a decent profit, it is about making a bigger and bigger profit. And they will do it for as long as they can. The only way they will stop is if we stop buying the product. And switching to another cruise line is not the solution. I have not sailed luxury, so cannot speak to them, but on Celebrity for example (which I cruise much more often than RCI), you will see exactly the same thing going on as you do here. Just jump on over to their boards and see. I suspect it is true for other mid-line cruise lines as well.

 

All I would ask is that people stop castigating other people for noticing these changes, and not being happy with it. We shouldn't be happy with it, and we should not be afraid of being flamed for saying so. It does NOT mean we are not still enjoying our cruises, and that RCI is not still a good line to sail on. But the reality is the reality.

[jewopaho]

There is no question that cruising is still a good value for the money overall, but there is also no doubt that in recent years prices have been rising just about as quickly as cut-backs in service, services, etc..

 

People point out that compared to 20 years ago, we are still paying less per person. True. But when making this comparison one needs to seriously consider the considerable cost savings that scaling provides. The cost per passenger on a mega-ship is way lower than the cost per passenger on the average vessel of 20 years ago. One also needs to consider that way back when the costs were sky high because they could! There were a lot fewer berths to fill so they could charge what the public would bear. How do you think they got the money to enlarge their fleets so substantially??? They were charging more than they needed just to make a profit; they were charging as much as they could to grow and grow and grow. It blows my mind that people can't see this.

 

At the same time, people also blindingly accept the concept that prices need to rise, and cuts need to be made because the price of everything is going up. Oh really? Compare the percentage increases in costs over the past five years for food, fuel, staffing, supplies, etc.. and I guarantee you that you will see a much larger percentage increase in fares than in costs. Have costs risen somewhat? Of course. But inflation has been quite low compared to years ago. So once again, it is not about making a decent profit, it is about making a bigger and bigger profit. And they will do it for as long as they can. The only way they will stop is if we stop buying the product. And switching to another cruise line is not the solution. I have not sailed luxury, so cannot speak to them, but on Celebrity for example (which I cruise much more often than RCI), you will see exactly the same thing going on as you do here. Just jump on over to their boards and see. I suspect it is true for other mid-line cruise lines as well.

 

All I would ask is that people stop castigating other people for noticing these changes, and not being happy with it. We shouldn't be happy with it, and we should not be afraid of being flamed for saying so. It does NOT mean we are not still enjoying our cruises, and that RCI is not still a good line to sail on. But the reality is the reality.

I understand all of what you wrote ... and there isn't much to argue over. Similar thoughts have crossed my mind. However, the bottom line is pretty simple for me, since I'm kind of a black-and-white guy ... I'm paying much less for a product, while at the same time getting more for my money. Am I pleased with all that comes out of the RCI boardroom? No ... but then again, I get to enjoy an overall excellent product, at a price that no other type of vacation can match.

[BamaGuy44]

I understand all of what you wrote ... and there isn't much to argue over. Similar thoughts have crossed my mind. However, the bottom line is pretty simple for me, since I'm kind of a black-and-white guy ... I'm paying much less for a product, while at the same time getting more for my money. Am I pleased with all that comes out of the RCI boardroom? No ... but then again, I get to enjoy an overall excellent product, at a price that no other type of vacation can match.

 

Are you on the wrong board? You have way too much logic and common sense for this place ;)

 

I'm with you, whenever I go on a cruise I'm amazed by what I get for the amount I paid, so that's a win in my book. Maybe I'm just a naive sheeple who is getting rooked by the cruise industry. If so I wish I could get rooked about 20 weeks a year instead of 1 or 2 :cool:

[3dog]

HEY ROYAL - Listen up! Some of us are willing to pay these higher prices but we want access throughout the ship, we want sufficient staff to have good service, we want quality improvements in food and a return to some such things as midnight buffets (once a cruise would be nice), better MDR food. You want to charge me for it? FINE. But don't continually chip away at the service and experience and expect to charge me more and somehow convince me I'm getting a premium product because the price is higher without anything of value in return.

 

You can always try Regent, Crystal, or Silversea.

[3dog]

My cruise in 1985 for an inside cabin for 2 people comes to $5,386.00 in todays money using a 2.7% average rate of inflation per year.

 

Pricing of cruises are way less then they were. The cuts are to be expected.

 

I took a cruise at about that time in a cabin with a window (higher deck, not a porthole), and I memory tells me the above is about what I paid for it.

 

My last GS experience wasn't much more than this price (and a not-too-long-ago deal had me in a GS for much less).

[ryano]

Are you on the wrong board? You have way too much logic and common sense for this place ;)

 

I'm with you, whenever I go on a cruise I'm amazed by what I get for the amount I paid, so that's a win in my book. Maybe I'm just a naive sheeple who is getting rooked by the cruise industry. If so I wish I could get rooked about 20 weeks a year instead of 1 or 2 :cool:

 

To me, one of the great things about being a fairly new cruiser is the fact that I dont know of the good ol days of cruising and honestly, not sure I would have liked them any way. I feel service on RCI ships is great. Im content with the food and I love the ships.

 

I imagine back in the "good ol days" ships were barely accessible if accessible at all. Now ALL RCI ships have one pool and one hot tub with a lift. I remember seeing old photos of having to climb outside stairs to get to the VCL. I guess the disabled passengers were just out of luck. :o

 

I dont need white glove service, gourmet meals and flaming desserts and such. I am extremely happy that there are more options than just the MDR to eat at. Keep my cabin tidy, serve me a decent meal and give me some decent entertainment and Im a happy guy. I am also happy that cruises are affordable now and not just for the "rich". Of course, I could very well be one of those sheeple getting rooked too. Oh well, at least Im having a great time for what I feel is a great price while its happening.

[Paulette3028]

You can always try Regent, Crystal, or Silversea.

 

Since I believe CC has a very small percentage of cruisers participating on its message board, LMaxwell, can not speak for all us. He doesn't even have the right to speak for someone other than himself at all. If people want to pay more money, they can always try other cruise lines.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Paulette3028

[3dog]

You can always try Regent, Crystal, or Silversea.

 

Since I believe CC has a very small percentage of cruisers participating on its message board, LMaxwell, can not speak for all us. He doesn't even have the right to speak for someone other than himself at all. If people want to pay more money, they can always try other cruise lines.

 

I think that was my point. LMaxwell said they would pay higher prices for better food/service/etc. Travel these lines, and there will be better food/service/etc. for a higher price.

[Paulette3028]

I think that I understand the point that LMaxwell is trying to make. We will now only sail in a Grand suite or higher. It seems that RCI is falling a bit behind some of the other cruise lines regarding suite programs. I have absolutely no problem with paying for a premium cabin and upgraded service but RCI needs to stay competitive. As far as the entertainment is concerned, I have in the past made at least part of my income as a musician. I tend to watch shows and musical performances with a very critical eye/ear. There's no way that I could hang musically with the house bands on RCI ships (and I am a very good musician). I always come away very impressed with the shows.

 

Good for you if you have the ability to ONLY sail in a Grand Suite or higher...but then again, from your signature, it appears you have only cruised once on Royal....so maybe that says more than that you will only sail in a Grand Suite.

 

I have enjoyed 15 cruises since 2003, none have been a Grand Suite, but DH and I had a lot of great vacations!

[travelberlin]

There is no question that cruising is still a good value for the money overall, but there is also no doubt that in recent years prices have been rising just about as quickly as cut-backs in service, services, etc..

 

People point out that compared to 20 years ago, we are still paying less per person. True. But when making this comparison one needs to seriously consider the considerable cost savings that scaling provides. The cost per passenger on a mega-ship is way lower than the cost per passenger on the average vessel of 20 years ago. One also needs to consider that way back when the costs were sky high because they could! There were a lot fewer berths to fill so they could charge what the public would bear. How do you think they got the money to enlarge their fleets so substantially??? They were charging more than they needed just to make a profit; they were charging as much as they could to grow and grow and grow. It blows my mind that people can't see this.

 

At the same time, people also blindingly accept the concept that prices need to rise, and cuts need to be made because the price of everything is going up. Oh really? Compare the percentage increases in costs over the past five years for food, fuel, staffing, supplies, etc.. and I guarantee you that you will see a much larger percentage increase in fares than in costs. Have costs risen somewhat? Of course. But inflation has been quite low compared to years ago. So once again, it is not about making a decent profit, it is about making a bigger and bigger profit. And they will do it for as long as they can. The only way they will stop is if we stop buying the product. And switching to another cruise line is not the solution. I have not sailed luxury, so cannot speak to them, but on Celebrity for example (which I cruise much more often than RCI), you will see exactly the same thing going on as you do here. Just jump on over to their boards and see. I suspect it is true for other mid-line cruise lines as well.

 

All I would ask is that people stop castigating other people for noticing these changes, and not being happy with it. We shouldn't be happy with it, and we should not be afraid of being flamed for saying so. It does NOT mean we are not still enjoying our cruises, and that RCI is not still a good line to sail on. But the reality is the reality.

 

Well said.:)

[Deatsch]

Hear, hear.

[Debinnova]

I agree... I don't jump on other posters when my view or experience is different from theirs. Everyone should be able to make courteous factual statements and observations without being called out. No matter what their opinion.

 

 

 

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[dixielady]

Ok since we've traveled a lot of different cruise lines, let me give you our 2 cents!

Disney vs RCL

Disney has no casino, RCL does!

Disney has better free food, RCL on larger ships has more pay options!

RCL has more teenager things to do on larger ships, like ice skating, flow rider, rock climbing, etc.!

Disney has better entertainment except on RCL's larger ships with Broadway production shows!

Disney has better youth programs!

 

I am not a gambler, so the Casino was not an issue. My husband and I along with our traveling party are in our "60's so we wont be using any of the kids/youth programs. I sail Disney, because I love Disney. I am just hoping and I am sure that my experience will be a good one on Royal. I guess I am used to Disney, and reading a lot of negative things about Royal just has me concerned. But again, I am keeping an open mind and am sure that I will enjoy and be very pleased with what Royal has to offer.

 

If I alarmed you, let me apologize. I truly do believe that Royal delivers what you pay for. Meaning, you get what you pay for. And I use that in a positive manner, not a negative manner. If you get what you paid for, that's fair value!

 

My perspective is tinted by having first cruised on the line 20+ years ago. However, to my mind, in the last 5 to 8 years prices have fallen through the bottom and things previously included were removed. I still found it a good value, and today DO think it is a good value.

 

However, that said, Royal has recently stated they won't do deep discounts to fill a ship as it damages the brand. I get it. Makes sense. What I am saying is...you've reduced amenities and services to reflect the current "low" average fare per pax; if Royal is going to increase their fare I'd like to see a return of some of those services or amenities. I'm willing to pay more to get more. If my cruise fare goes from $499 to $599 but it means I've got a special gala buffet once a cruise and that I'm not always seeing room attendant carts at all hours, or not having to wait on lines for anything because there is more staff to manage things, so be it, I'm all for it. Anything where you get what you pay for is good value. I stopped cruising Carnival when I felt like I no longer got what I paid for, and paying more for a more expensive room was only going to minimally impact that situation, it wouldn't change the total experience enough to matter.

 

No you didn't alarm me, and I totally understand what you are saying. Like I said in my original post, since I am new I will not miss what is no longer there. I know what Disney provides in their cruise service, and I am hoping that I will walk off the ship and have the same feeling of Awe, that Disney provides me. This will be an 11 day cruise with 5 sea days so I am sure I am going to have a fabulous time and really I am so looking forward to it.

 

So thanks everyone for your kind responses.

 

Denise

[Fat Paul]

Good for you if you have the ability to ONLY sail in a Grand Suite or higher...but then again, from your signature, it appears you have only cruised once on Royal....so maybe that says more than that you will only sail in a Grand Suite.

 

I have enjoyed 15 cruises since 2003, none have been a Grand Suite, but DH and I had a lot of great vacations!

 

No need to be snarly. I have been on approximately 8 or 9 cruises, all on Royal Caribbean, all in at least a Jr suite. We are lowly diamond members. At this point in our lives we would rather have the perks available to full suites. I am disabled and having dinner in our room is a possibility. So perhaps I have given sufficient justification for my position. Besides, I can afford to sail in suites so I will.

[rtazz17]

Definitely not a rip off; saying I would gladly pay more to get more. Not asking them to undersell their product. Nothing is more damaging to a brand than underselling.

 

Am saying it's a nasty cycle. They had to discount to fill ships. But they had to cut services to offer discounts. Now they want to stop with the discounts. Understandable. But services have to come back along with increase in fare otherwise the value equation becomes all screwed up. If you can't differentiate WHY your product is worth a premium price, well, who are you expecting to pay those premiums? Premium is not used in the context of RCI being like Oceania or Regent, Premium being used in the context of a premium price compared to similar itineraries on competing mass market ships.

 

Im actually quite happy with royals product service and price.I see where you are coming from but this is what it is.Cyt throat industry.We all need to make choices.Sounds like you wont be back.Thats unfortunate but Royal will gain more customers than lose in the long run.

[rtazz17]

I remember it well. And as far as I'm concerned all of these so called "sales" they keep inventing, and extending, just reinforce that RCI will do whatever it needs to do to keep the cabins full. And if they cannot entice enough bookings along the way with their nifty gimmicky sales tachnics and there are cabins unsold as the departure date draws near the true "sale" will commence. Some things in life are as dependable as the laws of thermodynamics.

Its called marketing.Every industry does it.Every SUCCESSFUL industry does it.It obviously works for them.

[Paulette3028]

I am not a gambler, so the Casino was not an issue. My husband and I along with our traveling party are in our "60's so we wont be using any of the kids/youth programs. I sail Disney, because I love Disney. I am just hoping and I am sure that my experience will be a good one on Royal. I guess I am used to Disney, and reading a lot of negative things about Royal just has me concerned. But again, I am keeping an open mind and am sure that I will enjoy and be very pleased with what Royal has to offer.

 

 

 

No you didn't alarm me, and I totally understand what you are saying. Like I said in my original post, since I am new I will not miss what is no longer there. I know what Disney provides in their cruise service, and I am hoping that I will walk off the ship and have the same feeling of Awe, that Disney provides me. This will be an 11 day cruise with 5 sea days so I am sure I am going to have a fabulous time and really I am so looking forward to it.

 

So thanks everyone for your kind responses.

 

Denise

 

First of all, you are going on your cruise with the BEST attitude -- looking forward to having a fabulous cruise. If people started with that attitude, I believe lots of them would have a better time. As I say, any day on a cruise is much better than a day at work (and I like working). All of these boards have too many people (and this represents a small % of overall cruisers), that are negative. I believe many of these people are 'just negative' in all aspects of their life (but that is my opinion).

 

You also know that Royal is not Disney....but I have always had a terrific time cruising Royal with lots of things to do (or not to do) and evening enjoyment that was very good. Food has always been good to very good, and it gets an extra unqualified point or two, since I did not good it or clean up after it. I don't do the food shopping in my house, DH does.

 

So, since you are already going to be going with your 'right foot forward' as my mother in law used to say.....enjoy the Royal experience.

[Paulette3028]

I think that was my point. LMaxwell said they would pay higher prices for better food/service/etc. Travel these lines, and there will be better food/service/etc. for a higher price.

 

And these same people will complain about it on those lines....then it will be we 'paid the premium prices and still did not get what we expected'.

 

You and I are in agreement on this, I know that.

[mommabean]

First of all, you are going on your cruise with the BEST attitude -- looking forward to having a fabulous cruise. If people started with that attitude, I believe lots of them would have a better time. As I say, any day on a cruise is much better than a day at work (and I like working). All of these boards have too many people (and this represents a small % of overall cruisers), that are negative. I believe many of these people are 'just negative' in all aspects of their life (but that is my opinion).

 

You also know that Royal is not Disney....but I have always had a terrific time cruising Royal with lots of things to do (or not to do) and evening enjoyment that was very good. Food has always been good to very good, and it gets an extra unqualified point or two, since I did not good it or clean up after it. I don't do the food shopping in my house, DH does.

 

So, since you are already going to be going with your 'right foot forward' as my mother in law used to say.....enjoy the Royal experience.

 

Please remember that if you state any of this on your comment e-survey, it will go against the crew member or the ship. Good and very good count as bad on a ship and are a strike against whoever you say it about. They only get positive credit when the feedback is excellent. Are you able to say excellent about these things in your post cruise comments?

[Ocean Boy]

Its called marketing.Every industry does it.Every SUCCESSFUL industry does it.It obviously works for them.

 

I know what it's called. I'm not so sure how well it is working for them. If their marketing "sale" sold off enough cabins then they shouldn't need to keep extending it. The only way to know if it worked is to see whether or not the real sale begins after final payment it due.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Ocean Boy

[American Bear]

Never have, and never will rent a condo in Florida.

 

I am talking about the Caribbean, Hawaii and Europe.

 

Hawaii and Europe vacations with flight, etc. are far more expensive then a cruise in the Caribbean!

Caribbean land vacations are a mixed bag, all inclusive will net you a lot of drunk kids, and lousy food, while upscale resorts come at a lot more money then a cruise!

Our opinion, cruising is still the best bang for your buck in vacationing!

[American Bear]

Midnight Buffet......In general I think People don't like to eat all of that food late at night. As long as they have other eats available at midnight that should be sufficent for the amount of people that need food at midnight. Sure the midnight buffet is impressive (very artistic to with the food art) but what a waste of food and expense not to mention the labor that goes into all of thos carvings.

With the cost of everything these days something will get cut. But they seem to have been improving on entertainment.

I am always amazed when I read a review and they say "the food unedible, it was cold" You cook 3,000 meals in one sitting, everything can't be perfect.

 

Gonna disagree with you on a couple of points, RCL is the worst at having free food available after 9 pm, worst pizza at sea, and those lousy little sandwiches on the promenade! Other cruise lines are superior for late night food!:eek:

We are not youngsters, partying all night, but a couple nights during a 7 day cruise we'll be hunting for something late, and RCL fails miserably!

Some of favorite memories are sailing out of Nasau at midnight on the old Monarch of the Seas with the main pool deck party going full throttle!:D

The past midnight buffets we've attended were always very popular, and well attended, so I don't know what ships you all on this thread are commenting on that the midnight buffet being poorly attended!:eek:

[American Bear]

I understand all of what you wrote ... and there isn't much to argue over. Similar thoughts have crossed my mind. However, the bottom line is pretty simple for me, since I'm kind of a black-and-white guy ... I'm paying much less for a product, while at the same time getting more for my money. Am I pleased with all that comes out of the RCI boardroom? No ... but then again, I get to enjoy an overall excellent product, at a price that no other type of vacation can match.

 

 

 

Agree with you, but would add one thing, RCL isn't just competing against land vacations, they're competing against other cruise companies, some that don't have stockholders, and boards of directors to make happy like privately owned MSC and NCL!

 

RCL is blowing smoke if they think cruisers will remain loyal while other cruise lines offer now, and in the future a competitive cruise experience for less money!:eek:

 

The new cruise ship concepts coming out of NCL with the Breakaway/Getaway ships, and MSC with their Fantasia class, along with the 4 ships MSC has scheduled for delivery in the next 4 years that are larger then RCL's new Quantum are examples that RCL will have plenty of competition in the future forcing them to keep their prices in line!:D

[Paulette3028]

Please remember that if you state any of this on your comment e-survey, it will go against the crew member or the ship. Good and very good count as bad on a ship and are a strike against whoever you say it about. They only get positive credit when the feedback is excellent. Are you able to say excellent about these things in your post cruise comments?

 

I totally understand the way the surveys work....I unfortunately work for a company who expects our customers to rely with "Highly Satisfied" on our surveys or the survey results in a ZERO for the employee, vs a 10.

 

But my comment was to a new cruiser.......it wasn't instructions for completing the survey.