Royal: If you want to charge premium prices, go back to giving a premium product

[denamo]

I am "new" to Royal, have not sailed on her yet. I have been reading these boards and getting as much information on Royal as I can. I have to say, the more I read the more I wonder if I will enjoy sailing on her. I am trying really hard keeping an "open mind" on this. But when I read post's like this, it makes me nervous about my up coming cruise.

 

We booked this because we are traveling with family and friends and I wanted to try Royal.

 

So I hope that my experience on Royal will be a good one. Maybe because I have not sailed on her before, I wont notice what has been cut back on and what used to be. I am hoping that what I do encounter will leave a good impression on me.

 

Thank you for listening to a newbe to Royal.

 

:)

 

The comments being made are like the reviews found on various ships by various cruisers. There are those that are scathing and others that are over the moon. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Mostly, the comments seem to be reaction to change. We've done numerous cruises and enjoyed all of them, even after changes occurred (i.e. no chocolates on pillows nightly;)).

 

Have fun on your cruise!

[LMaxwell]

I am "new" to Royal, have not sailed on her yet. I have been reading these boards and getting as much information on Royal as I can. I have to say, the more I read the more I wonder if I will enjoy sailing on her. I am trying really hard keeping an "open mind" on this. But when I read post's like this, it makes me nervous about my up coming cruise.

 

We booked this because we are traveling with family and friends and I wanted to try Royal.

 

So I hope that my experience on Royal will be a good one. Maybe because I have not sailed on her before, I wont notice what has been cut back on and what used to be. I am hoping that what I do encounter will leave a good impression on me.

 

Thank you for listening to a newbe to Royal.

 

:)

 

If I alarmed you, let me apologize. I truly do believe that Royal delivers what you pay for. Meaning, you get what you pay for. And I use that in a positive manner, not a negative manner. If you get what you paid for, that's fair value!

 

My perspective is tinted by having first cruised on the line 20+ years ago. However, to my mind, in the last 5 to 8 years prices have fallen through the bottom and things previously included were removed. I still found it a good value, and today DO think it is a good value.

 

However, that said, Royal has recently stated they won't do deep discounts to fill a ship as it damages the brand. I get it. Makes sense. What I am saying is...you've reduced amenities and services to reflect the current "low" average fare per pax; if Royal is going to increase their fare I'd like to see a return of some of those services or amenities. I'm willing to pay more to get more. If my cruise fare goes from $499 to $599 but it means I've got a special gala buffet once a cruise and that I'm not always seeing room attendant carts at all hours, or not having to wait on lines for anything because there is more staff to manage things, so be it, I'm all for it. Anything where you get what you pay for is good value. I stopped cruising Carnival when I felt like I no longer got what I paid for, and paying more for a more expensive room was only going to minimally impact that situation, it wouldn't change the total experience enough to matter.

[ryano]

I am "new" to Royal, have not sailed on her yet. I have been reading these boards and getting as much information on Royal as I can. I have to say, the more I read the more I wonder if I will enjoy sailing on her. I am trying really hard keeping an "open mind" on this. But when I read post's like this, it makes me nervous about my up coming cruise.

 

We booked this because we are traveling with family and friends and I wanted to try Royal.

 

So I hope that my experience on Royal will be a good one. Maybe because I have not sailed on her before, I wont notice what has been cut back on and what used to be. I am hoping that what I do encounter will leave a good impression on me.

 

Thank you for listening to a newbe to Royal.

 

:)

 

Dont sweat it. These discussions are mostly comprised of people high up the Crown and Anchor ladder that have witnessed firsthand, the multitude of cutbacks over the years.

 

You are "new" to Royal Caribbean. As you have pointed out, you know not of those days nor the cutbacks involved just as I really dont.

 

If you like cruising at all, I think you will love Royal Caribbean. There ships are magnificent, the service generally outstanding and food is good IMHO.

[Ladysilver]

We don't mind paying what we do and we feel like we're paying for a premium product every time we set foot on a Royal Caribbean ship. We book early (at least a year and a half in advance) and feel like we're getting a great deal. :D

[JasonV1]

I am "new" to Royal, have not sailed on her yet. I have been reading these boards and getting as much information on Royal as I can. I have to say, the more I read the more I wonder if I will enjoy sailing on her. I am trying really hard keeping an "open mind" on this. But when I read post's like this, it makes me nervous about my up coming cruise.

 

We booked this because we are traveling with family and friends and I wanted to try Royal.

 

So I hope that my experience on Royal will be a good one. Maybe because I have not sailed on her before, I wont notice what has been cut back on and what used to be. I am hoping that what I do encounter will leave a good impression on me.

 

Thank you for listening to a newbe to Royal.

 

:)

 

 

Don't worry about it. I started sailing Royal just a few years ago and haven't looked back. I like NCL but their lack of a Solarium-like area is a negative for me now as their ships (even the newest ones) don't have enough pools or hot tubs for the size. Now the NCL Haven cabins, that's another story (awesome, if you can swing it, which is why Royal is trying to mimic the concept in the Oasis redesign).

 

You'll likely find a few things you'd like to change, but we all do. I'd love deck chairs that eject belongings into a lost and found once the chair has gone unused for a period of time, but those don't exist yet.

 

I am anxious to try Celebrity next year (chose it for the itinerary) so I have another line to compare it with, although I'm sailing the Millennium which isn't the latest and greatest (but still nice).

[insidecabin]

The other stratagy being used is the included drinks package with increased fares.

 

diamonds and up don't need the package with the happy hour(s) but will still have to pay unless they wait for pricing without the package. Which often means gty specials.

[jewopaho]

These discussions continually pop up, ad nauseum. As a long-time cruiser (as in Home Lines' Oceanic out of New York, circa 1970's) with over 60 voyages under my belt, I've seen the industry morph, from its beginnings as a luxury junket only affordable to affluent retirees, to a mass-market, price-oriented, fun-filled vacation, appealing to families, singles, couples, seniors, even passengers with special needs ... that should about cover it.

 

So how does one expect Royal Caribbean (or any cruise line, for that matter) to appeal to all those demographics? There are other options under the RCI umbrella. Looking for a more "premium" product ... Celebrity. How about a "more-premium" premium experience ... Azamara Club. The definition of the word is in the mind of the individual. To some, nothing short of Seabourn or Crystal meets that criterion; to others, it's an upgrade to an ocean view stateroom from an interior cabin.

 

Having sailed with just about every US-based cruise line (even several that are no longer around ... remember The Big Red Boat?) I tend to gravitate back to Royal Caribbean (although we do sail with Princess and Celebrity on a semi-regular basis) ... they don't do anything that's particularly outstanding, but they do everything very well. At the prices we pay, it's still the greatest vacation bargain.

 

Have there been cutbacks? Sure, as there have been throughout the industry. But as the cost of doing business rises (everything from the price of bananas to the huge expenditures involved with building a new ship) something's gotta give. The only options are raising prices, scaling back here and there, or a combination of the two. It's pretty much same as a more "tangible" product, where the manufacturer can either tack on a few bucks to cover the cost increase of raw materials, change out a part for a less expensive one, or both.

 

I doubt whether Adam Goldstein begins each board meeting with ... "What can we cut out today, without our customers feeling that they're being shafted?" Any changes are perceived as prudent business decisions ... most are at least tolerated eventually (charging for the Johnny Rockets experience) while others fall flat (paying to use the rock climbing wall). No midnight buffet? Judging from what I've observed, it was probably the least cost-effective amenity on the high seas ... not only was the vast majority of food uneaten, the events attended by fewer than half the passengers (more likely in the 10% range), but the labor intensity was staggering.

 

When one of these threads arises, I always refer back to my cruise about twenty years ago, aboard a Carnival scow known as the Jubilee, for which I paid over $900 for a seven-night trip. That same itinerary today, at the same time of year, on a true floating resort, would run me about half of that ... not even taking into account the value (or lack thereof) of the dollar then and now.

 

I've owned several businesses, and it was often an insomniatic experience to contemplate raising prices, cutting back on quantity/quality, or making any changes that my clientele would perceive as negative ... but the decisions had to be made. Thankfully I did fine ... and so will Royal Caribbean.

 

Al

[NOSaints1]

Are some classes better than others? For service, I hear the Oasis class is good but any others ?

 

 

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[Paulette3028]

These discussions continually pop up, ad nauseum. As a long-time cruiser (as in Home Lines' Oceanic out of New York, circa 1970's) with over 60 voyages under my belt, I've seen the industry morph, from its beginnings as a luxury junket only affordable to affluent retirees, to a mass-market, price-oriented, fun-filled vacation, appealing to families, singles, couples, seniors, even passengers with special needs ... that should about cover it.

 

So how does one expect Royal Caribbean (or any cruise line, for that matter) to appeal to all those demographics? There are other options under the RCI umbrella. Looking for a more "premium" product ... Celebrity. How about a "more-premium" premium experience ... Azamara Club. The definition of the word is in the mind of the individual. To some, nothing short of Seabourn or Crystal meets that criterion; to others, it's an upgrade to an ocean view stateroom from an interior cabin.

 

Having sailed with just about every US-based cruise line (even several that are no longer around ... remember The Big Red Boat?) I tend to gravitate back to Royal Caribbean (although we do sail with Princess and Celebrity on a semi-regular basis) ... they don't do anything that's particularly outstanding, but they do everything very well. At the prices we pay, it's still the greatest vacation bargain.

 

Have there been cutbacks? Sure, as there have been throughout the industry. But as the cost of doing business rises (everything from the price of bananas to the huge expenditures involved with building a new ship) something's gotta give. The only options are raising prices, scaling back here and there, or a combination of the two. It's pretty much same as a more "tangible" product, where the manufacturer can either tack on a few bucks to cover the cost increase of raw materials, change out a part for a less expensive one, or both.

 

I doubt whether Adam Goldstein begins each board meeting with ... "What can we cut out today, without our customers feeling that they're being shafted?" Any changes are perceived as prudent business decisions ... most are at least tolerated eventually (charging for the Johnny Rockets experience) while others fall flat (paying to use the rock climbing wall). No midnight buffet? Judging from what I've observed, it was probably the least cost-effective amenity on the high seas ... not only was the vast majority of food uneaten, the events attended by fewer than half the passengers (more likely in the 10% range), but the labor intensity was staggering.

 

When one of these threads arises, I always refer back to my cruise about twenty years ago, aboard a Carnival scow known as the Jubilee, for which I paid over $900 for a seven-night trip. That same itinerary today, at the same time of year, on a true floating resort, would run me about half of that ... not even taking into account the value (or lack thereof) of the dollar then and now.

 

I've owned several businesses, and it was often an insomniatic experience to contemplate raising prices, cutting back on quantity/quality, or making any changes that my clientele would perceive as negative ... but the decisions had to be made. Thankfully I did fine ... and so will Royal Caribbean.

 

Al

 

And the cruisers on Royal will do fine and have a great time as well.

[Clarea]

Are some classes better than others? For service, I hear the Oasis class is good but any others ?

I don't think quality of service is directly related to ship class.

[beerman2]

dixielady.

 

You will be fine, we just did our first RCL and we had a great time.

 

I was expecting to get 4/5 star dining that you get in a Big City restaurant. However for the most part it was very good.

 

Service was very good also. Sometimes people's expectation are just a little more than others. It's what make the world go 'round.

 

Go with open mind , relax and draw your own conclusions as they will sure differ from most .

 

 

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[Hoopster95]

I've owned several businesses, and it was often an insomniatic experience to contemplate raising prices, cutting back on quantity/quality, or making any changes that my clientele would perceive as negative ... but the decisions had to be made. Thankfully I did fine ... and so will Royal Caribbean.

 

Al

 

 

One of the best posts of the year on this RCL forum... sums up so many questions, complaints, anger, etc of so many CC'ers. Extremely well said Al

[BamaGuy44]

 

However, that said, Royal has recently stated they won't do deep discounts to fill a ship as it damages the brand. I get it. Makes sense. What I am saying is...you've reduced amenities and services to reflect the current "low" average fare per pax; if Royal is going to increase their fare I'd like to see a return of some of those services or amenities. I'm willing to pay more to get more. If my cruise fare goes from $499 to $599 but it means I've got a special gala buffet once a cruise and that I'm not always seeing room attendant carts at all hours, or not having to wait on lines for anything because there is more staff to manage things, so be it, I'm all for it. Anything where you get what you pay for is good value. I stopped cruising Carnival when I felt like I no longer got what I paid for, and paying more for a more expensive room was only going to minimally impact that situation, it wouldn't change the total experience enough to matter.

 

 

All this is fine as an academic exercise about what you'd like to see in a perfect world, but in real world terms do you really think they should add services and staff and increase their prices? And that would be a smart thing for them to do? Because those are 2 different discussions.

 

For better or worse people are very price sensitive. I don't think you'll find too many who want to join you in paying more for less housekeeping carts in the halls or shorter lines. Some, but not enough to make it feasible. I'm sure RC wishes that weren't the case and so do I but that's just not reality.

 

Like my old granddad used to say..."Put your wishes in one hand, and take a cr*p in the other, see which one fills up first..." Crude but wise, just like he was :p

[Fat Paul]

I think that I understand the point that LMaxwell is trying to make. We will now only sail in a Grand suite or higher. It seems that RCI is falling a bit behind some of the other cruise lines regarding suite programs. I have absolutely no problem with paying for a premium cabin and upgraded service but RCI needs to stay competitive. As far as the entertainment is concerned, I have in the past made at least part of my income as a musician. I tend to watch shows and musical performances with a very critical eye/ear. There's no way that I could hang musically with the house bands on RCI ships (and I am a very good musician). I always come away very impressed with the shows.

[papcx]

 

 

 

Like my old granddad used to say..."Put your wishes in one hand, and take a cr*p in the other, see which one fills up first..." Crude but wise, just like he was :p

 

 

That is brilliant. Someone should put that on a calendar!

[jewopaho]

One of the best posts of the year on this RCL forum... sums up so many questions, complaints, anger, etc of so many CC'ers. Extremely well said Al

Much appreciated ... thanks for the kind words.

 

Al

Edited October 31, 2014 by jewopaho

[rbuenger]

My cruise in 1985 for an inside cabin for 2 people comes to $5,386.00 in todays money using a 2.7% average rate of inflation per year.

 

Pricing of cruises are way less then they were. The cuts are to be expected.

 

You are right in the money with this.....Cruise fares have stayed relatively flat or even dropped when inflation is factored in..... Comparatively, cruising now is a bargain compared to what it was before "Mass Market" cruising existed.

[insidecabin]

The real issue with prices the further ahead you book the less you can be sure what you are buying.

 

Look at what princess did this year trying to introduce room service charges while they were still selling on the basis there were no charges

[Aquahound]

I just got done looking at all the photos of the new Quantum and I am very impressed. The ship is gorgeous. Compared to the other lines I've sailed, including the beautiful Celebrity Solstice, I truly believe RCI still does offer a premium product.

[Ocean Boy]

A few years ago, RCCL tried to keep their prices elevated. I believe that Richard Fain stated that they would be OK with sailing with empty cabins rather than continuing discounting.

 

They quickly went back to some discounting in order to fill the ships.

 

I remember it well. And as far as I'm concerned all of these so called "sales" they keep inventing, and extending, just reinforce that RCI will do whatever it needs to do to keep the cabins full. And if they cannot entice enough bookings along the way with their nifty gimmicky sales tachnics and there are cabins unsold as the departure date draws near the true "sale" will commence. Some things in life are as dependable as the laws of thermodynamics.

[sarajean]

Midnight Buffet......In general I think People don't like to eat all of that food late at night. As long as they have other eats available at midnight that should be sufficent for the amount of people that need food at midnight. Sure the midnight buffet is impressive (very artistic to with the food art) but what a waste of food and expense not to mention the labor that goes into all of thos carvings.

With the cost of everything these days something will get cut. But they seem to have been improving on entertainment.

I am always amazed when I read a review and they say "the food unedible, it was cold" You cook 3,000 meals in one sitting, everything can't be perfect.

[yogimax]

Midnight Buffet......In general I think People don't like to eat all of that food late at night.

 

Acid Reflux indeed.

[Ocean Boy]

I must be one of the luckiest cruisers on RCCL as I have not experienced all the cutbacks people keep harping on. Did we see our cabin steward every day on our last cruise? No, but our room was always clean after the morning and ready for the evening. When we needed to ask for something we found her without an issue. Did our waiters stand around and talk at every meal we had in the MDR? No way as they were very busy however we got all the courses hot and in a reasonable time frame. Our first cruise was 20 years ago on the Majesty and we were in awe at the size of the ship and the public spaces. Compare that to the Allure cruise last November and once again we were in awe at the size of the ship and the public spaces. Sorry the DW just reminded me that we are furious with no chocolates on the pillows at night.

 

I tend to agree with you. As of now the things that we look for in a cruise really have not been affected so we continue to cruise. We get decent food and a nice atmosphere for the family to spend time togther. Service levels more than meet my needs. However, cruising appeals to a very diversified population who look for different things so I suspect some are finding that cruising is no longer meeting their needs either in service, amenities, or both. I guess when that happens for us we will stop cruising. For now I am pretty happy with RCI's product.

 

Fortunately we are also able to sail on weeks when the price, in my opinion, is not unreasonable for what we are getting in return. There are certainly weeks that I would never pay the price that RCI is asking so I don't.

[wolfganghowell]

I'm a little surprised at how many people are believing RCCL's statement about no last minute discounting. It's typical CEO-speak to shareholders. If they can convince a good % of their customers to book early, they have great cash flow. It's simple business.

 

I would also bet that a vast majority of last minute cruisers are retirees who don't have to deal with jobs and all the hassles that come with short planning. And to take that further, the last minute cruisers are probably not generating high revenue - drinking, gambling, specialty restaurants. So RCCL is trying to encourage those folks to book earlier. (Nothing wrong with it either - I'm sure when we retire we will be doing the same thing!)

 

They can make all the pronouncements they want but the last minute deals will still exist.

 

Count me as another who is glad the waste of midnight buffets is gone. For every person who gritched when the chocolates went away, there was probably another person who never ate them and threw them away. Change is part of life and businesses have to adapt. There are plenty of cruise options to fit every budget and every preference. As others stated, they can't please 100% of their customer base. No one can.

[BamaGuy44]

You are right in the money with this.....Cruise fares have stayed relatively flat or even dropped when inflation is factored in..... Comparatively, cruising now is a bargain compared to what it was before "Mass Market" cruising existed.

 

This is what many who long for the good old days fail to acknowledge. Cruise lines NEVER offered premium food and service for non-premium prices. When the services were premium, so were the prices. Cruising used to be basically for rich people and people who saved for years for a once in a lifetime trip.

 

Granted, anyone who takes a cruise is extremely wealthy compared to most of the world, but you know what I mean.