Reviews nixed or heavily edited?

[cruisemom42]

Inconsistency is a common theme here... Naming a CD, negatively or positively is done regularly on the cruise line boards here, especially on Carnival. Someone will start a thread 'How is XX?...and there will be many answers, some good, some not so...Those don't seem to be edited. EM

 

I think the point is that if something (e.g., a name) is posted in a thread, others can also give opinions -- so it is less easy for someone with a grudge to get away with badmouthing someone in the forums.

 

Whereas in a review, there is no recourse or discussion. Only one person's (unsupported) opinion.

 

I agree with capriccio that naming names isn't really necessary. I can't imagine someone choosing a specific cruise solely because of the presence or absence of a specific cruise director, who may or may not still be on that same ship months (or even years) later.

Edited February 18, 2016 by cruisemom42

[RobertoF]

It seems the editorial censorship is a fairly recentl phenomenon. I have written reviews and posted in the forums for years without issue. Within the last week I have had a review edited and in a separate incident saw a thread I had posted in (not started) be completely wiped out. It is an insidious form of cencorship because there is no notice, and there is no way to even know it happened unless you were the original author and notice your post was changed or edited. Even the posting guidelines have been deleted. It seems the editors have run amok. It is a shame, because this used to be a site where people could share honest opinions, good or bad. Now CC seems only interested in the good. I will not volunteer my time to participate in a site where the editors decide to remove negative comments that are completely civil and thoughtful, simply because they do not want to see negative comments. It appears corporate profits at Expedia have finally caught up with this once great site. It is a shame, but I am done contributing. I cannot spend my time trying to help my fellow cruisers with the good and the bad and then have some editor decide what is fit for consumption.

[cruisemom42]

It is an insidious form of cencorship because there is no notice, and there is no way to even know it happened unless you were the original author and notice your post was changed or edited. Even the posting guidelines have been deleted.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Aren't the posting guidelines just where they have always been, e.g., under "Guidelines" in the yellow navigation bar above? :confused:

 

I don't think the "rules" have changed in the 10 years I've been on the site. No reason for post removal or thread closure has ever been given IME, unless the poster emails the mods to ask for an explanation.

[RobertoF]

I was referring to the community guidelines link, which is (or was) here:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/community/guide.cfm

 

I see that your link also has a set of guidelines. It is interesting that one of the guidelines is that CC has the right to delete anything it wants for any reason. Another guideline states that you are not allowed to discus the guidelines. So I guess this thread will be deleted soon. This explains why nobody is aware of CC's editing of posts and reviews because it is done so without notice and any threads that discuss it are deleted.

[DirtyDawg]

I see that your link also has a set of guidelines. It is interesting that one of the guidelines is that CC has the right to delete anything it wants for any reason...

 

I guess CC modeled its guidelines after the ubiquitous cruise contract.;)

[cbr663]

I have also posted reviews in the Member Reviews section that have not been edited or deleted.

 

I do not view the moderation of the board as editorial censorship. It is clearly stated when everyone signs up that this is not a free for all forum where anything and everything goes. It was one of the reasons that I joined.

 

To be perfectly honest, I think that the forums could use even more moderation at times. I would like to see more support of the community moderating itself, a practice that is currently openly discouraged on many forums.

 

I also understand the frustration of suddenly discovering that a post has been removed. I can only imagine the challenge of having to explain how a particular post does not adhere to the community guidelines and then having to defend this decision when a poster disagrees with the decision. Remember, there will always be posters who will not tolerate what others think, only care to state their own opinion, who set out to embarrass and humiliate others, who will use the forum to advance their own personal agenda, be rude, argumentative and down right nasty.

[RobertoF]

Inconsistency is a common theme here... Naming a CD, negatively or positively is done regularly on the cruise line boards here, especially on Carnival. Someone will start a thread 'How is XX?...and there will be many answers, some good, some not so...Those don't seem to be edited. EM

 

They are being edited now. I like to know what my fellow cruisers think of the CD or comedian or piano player on my upcoming cruise. But I can tell you that now if you say a CD is inaccessible or a comedian is not funny or a piano player cannot sing that will be deleted. And nobody will know because only you know that your post was deleted. What is left is an unrepresentative set of more positive or mildly critical comments. Perhaps helpful if CC is afraid of a lawsuit or of upsetting a corporate sponsor, but not so helpful for cruisers who want honest feedback, positive or negative. If I want the rah-rah stuff I will go to the cruiseline website.

[navybankerteacher]

They are being edited now. I like to know what my fellow cruisers think of the CD or comedian or piano player on my upcoming cruise. But I can tell you that now if you say a CD is inaccessible or a comedian is not funny or a piano player cannot sing that will be deleted. And nobody will know because only you know that your post was deleted. What is left is an unrepresentative set of more positive or mildly critical comments. Perhaps helpful if CC is afraid of a lawsuit or of upsetting a corporate sponsor, but not so helpful for cruisers who want honest feedback, positive or negative. If I want the rah-rah stuff I will go to the cruiseline website.

 

It is hard to be certain that they are (or are not) being edited --- but there certainly are negative comments posted in reviews. If you take a few minutes to scan some reviews it will be obvious. Perhaps specific reference to individuals is being dropped, but that can be seen as being justified - and one does not really need to know the name of an un-funny comedian, or a lackluster CD - simply knowing that the quality isn't there is sufficient for the purpose.

[celebrity]

Having read a later posting of yours on this thread, I can certainly understand why the editors here might not post your review in its entirety: your having named an individual in your scathing report, in a format which does not accommodate any counter-comment was something any responsible editor would have either modified or rejected.

 

 

 

Your attitude indicates a possible reason why you now refer to yourself as "...a FORMER newspaper editor..."; newspaper publishers have their own responsibilities.

 

 

As the recipient of a very personal and harsh attack on FB of all places, I am very sensitive to

irresponsible posts.

 

In my instance, the individual posted my name and had never had any interaction with me but wanted me fired from my job. [emoji35]

 

I would think as a former editor you would be sensitive to the fact that your "opinion" could cost someone their livelihood.

Shame on you and kudos to CC for editing your post.

 

 

OP: I sure hope you are never put on the fire for someone else's opinion of you.

[JVilleGal]

Celebrity I think you have nailed it and I agree completely!

 

In case anyone is unaware, this IS Cruise Critic's Forum and they make the rules. If you don't like those rules you can take your marbles and go play somewhere else.

Edited February 20, 2016 by JVilleGal

[celebrity]

Celebrity I think you have nailed it and I agree completely!

 

In case anyone is unaware, this IS Cruise Critic's Forum and they make the rules. If you don't like those rules you can take your marbles and go play somewhere else.

 

 

Glad you agree ! How would the OP like being slandered on the Internet for an opinion?

Thanks for the support.

 

I sailed on Quantum 4-12-15 and had the worst cabin steward in 25 cruises. It was comical to us as he failed in so many areas but I never reached out to corporate, reduced grats or posted his name on the Internet. He was never rude, just overwhelmed and who knows what else may have been going on his life?

I didn't tip extra which we ordinarily do, but to hang him out to dry is not cool!

I'm tired of bullies that sit behind a keyboard.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

My mantra: Better to be kind than to be right.

If you are kind, you are right all the time.

[wwcruisers]

Celebrity I think you have nailed it and I agree completely!

 

In case anyone is unaware, this IS Cruise Critic's Forum and they make the rules. If you don't like those rules you can take your marbles and go play somewhere else.

 

And, I agree with you, completely! I don't pretend to understand the logic behind all of the rules on this forum -- but, I accept it as just that: their forum, their rules! All I know is that I get to come here every day, share opinions, learn new things, and meet new cruising buddies -- and it doesn't cost me a cent. :cool: THANK YOU, CruiseCritic!!!:)

[JVilleGal]

And, I agree with you, completely! I don't pretend to understand the logic behind all of the rules on this forum -- but, I accept it as just that: their forum, their rules! All I know is that I get to come here every day, share opinions, learn new things, and meet new cruising buddies -- and it doesn't cost me a cent. :cool: THANK YOU, CruiseCritic!!!:)

 

 

THIS!!!! Yes, simple but brilliant:)

[RobertoF]

It never ceases to amaze me the tolerance people have for the censorship of other people. It used to be people said fight hateful speech with more speech. In this PC world the focus now is on stopping the original speaker. And giving every kid a trophy so that nobody gets upset and "everyone's a winner!" We all should just agree that every cruise ship employee is declared employee of the month and then there would be nothing left to discuss.

 

I think what's most sad are the attacks on a fellow CC member by people who do not realize that they are the bullies.

[JinxyB]

I have posted several member reviews and only recently had one edited. I sailed NCL Dawn last summer and the entire ladies bathroom area was closed off on the pool deck, leaving the closest bathroom right near the buffet. This entire bathroom area was filthy the entire cruise, with fecal matter and blood/tissue clogging the toilets, etc. This part of my review was edited out...I did not use vulgar language at all, pretty much how I just described it.

[ontheweb]

I have only reviewed one of our cruises on cc. It was mostly positive, with a few negatives. I did mention the cruise director by name with a very favorable comment. There was no editing done by cc.

 

Once, after a cruise on Carnival, I submitted reviews of excursions on their site for reviewing excursions. One review was extremely positive, and was accepted and printed.:) One was extremely negative; it was rejected as "not meeting their standards" .:mad:

[LauraS]

I realize this thread is old, but I wanted to say that I have left many reviews and never had one edited until now. The editors removed the name of the cruise director that was referenced in my review. I was critical of the CD, but in a mild and unoffensive way. I simply said he was boring. The fact that CC edited out his name smacks of censorship to me. I have written positive comments about CDs before and listed them by name and that was never edited. This editorial policy is very concerning, as people come to CC to get honest reviews, good or bad. If this is a corporate policy of Expedia (owner of CC) to avoid negative reviews at the behest of the cruise lines then I will no longer volunteer my time to contribute to this site.

 

I'll be happy to explain our policies with regard to publishing reviews on Cruise Critic -- which I also did in an email to you. Please note, everyone, that I am NOT referring to reviews posted on the boards.

 

We will remove the last names of all cruise line employees from reviews at publication. This includes everyone all the way up to the Cruise Director on board. Words live in perpetuity on the Internet, and it simply is not fair to publish their last names. It can have an impact on their future. We will remove them, period.

 

The comments about your experiences will remain, and always have. We do not edit out the experience.

 

As long as I'm explaining things :) -- If you include disparaging statements about groups of people -- we will return your review to you unless it is easy to edit out a single word. For example, you can say "large groups of people were swarming the buffet". But you cannot attribute that to any ethnic group or protected group - or even people with frizzy hair for that matter. The good thing is that we now have the technology to send the review back to you for editing.

 

Also, we haven't been part of the Expedia family for a number of years. We're part of the TripAdvisor media group.

 

Finally, all one has to do is spend less than two minutes browsing previously published reviews on the site. There's PLENTY of negative ones.

 

Laura

[whogo]

Thank you, Laura. Sorry to hear that you edit reviews.

[teamflames]

I'll be happy to explain our policies with regard to publishing reviews on Cruise Critic -- which I also did in an email to you. Please note, everyone, that I am NOT referring to reviews posted on the boards.

 

We will remove the last names of all cruise line employees from reviews at publication. This includes everyone all the way up to the Cruise Director on board. Words live in perpetuity on the Internet, and it simply is not fair to publish their last names. It can have an impact on their future. We will remove them, period.

 

The comments about your experiences will remain, and always have. We do not edit out the experience.

 

As long as I'm explaining things :) -- If you include disparaging statements about groups of people -- we will return your review to you unless it is easy to edit out a single word. For example, you can say "large groups of people were swarming the buffet". But you cannot attribute that to any ethnic group or protected group - or even people with frizzy hair for that matter. The good thing is that we now have the technology to send the review back to you for editing.

 

Also, we haven't been part of the Expedia family for a number of years. We're part of the TripAdvisor media group.

 

Finally, all one has to do is spend less than two minutes browsing previously published reviews on the site. There's PLENTY of negative ones.

 

Laura

 

 

Hi Laura,

 

Does that policy apply to the boards as well? I sent an email weeks ago from a thread where 2 different groups of nationalities were disparaged, seeking clarification if this were acceptable posting, but never heard back.

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Forums mobile app

[JVilleGal]

Thank you Laura for stopping by. Cruise Critic policy of removing "Last names" seems very reasonable to me.

[wwcruisers]

Yes, thank you Laura! It's nice to know a little about how the editing process works, for the review section.

 

And, for those who express concern about "censorship" and "political correctness", may I remind you that this has always been a factor in the journalistic editorial process. Back in the old days, when a "letter to the editor" was submitted to a newspaper, a similar vetting process took place. Anything potentially libelous or defamatory was "red-lined", along with details deemed to be too personal. So, responsible editorial control is really nothing new.

Edited February 22, 2016 by wwcruisers

[Admin]

I'd also like to add that you can always write to reviews@cruisecritic.com if you ever have a question about the member review process. Every e mail is read and answered by a real person.

[JVilleGal]

I'd also like to add that you can always write to reviews@cruisecritic.com if you ever have a question about the member review process. Every e mail is read and answered by a real person.

 

 

Sure wish you would add a "Like" button!

[RobertoF]

I'll be happy to explain our policies with regard to publishing reviews on Cruise Critic -- which I also did in an email to you. Please note, everyone, that I am NOT referring to reviews posted on the boards.

 

We will remove the last names of all cruise line employees from reviews at publication. This includes everyone all the way up to the Cruise Director on board. Words live in perpetuity on the Internet, and it simply is not fair to publish their last names. It can have an impact on their future. We will remove them, period.

 

The comments about your experiences will remain, and always have. We do not edit out the experience.

 

As long as I'm explaining things :) -- If you include disparaging statements about groups of people -- we will return your review to you unless it is easy to edit out a single word. For example, you can say "large groups of people were swarming the buffet". But you cannot attribute that to any ethnic group or protected group - or even people with frizzy hair for that matter. The good thing is that we now have the technology to send the review back to you for editing.

 

Also, we haven't been part of the Expedia family for a number of years. We're part of the TripAdvisor media group.

 

Finally, all one has to do is spend less than two minutes browsing previously published reviews on the site. There's PLENTY of negative ones.

 

Laura

 

Laura, thank you for your e-mail and also your message on this board. I respectfully disagree that all last names should be removed from reviews if the review is critical. Cruise directors, comedians, magicians, pianists, etc. are highly-visible public figures who are used by the cruise lines to sell their cruises. I have certainly made cruise decisions based on the entertainment on board. It is troubling that CC has not only decided to censor these comments, but to do so only when the comments are negative. That leaves an imbalanced impression that certain performers are better received than they really are.

 

You also told me in your e-mail that "reviews posted on the boards" are not edited. I proceeded to leave aspects of my negative review on existing board threads that were promptly deleted in their entirety. So your representation is not accurate, nor does this new policy seem to be applied with any consistency. It almost seems that editors are favoring certain entertainment staff members, which I trust CC would not tolerate even the new heavy-handed editing policy.