Smoking...Again!!

[English Voyager]

You have to love the "logic" of smokers when they try to defend the smell and health issue by referring to other issues

 

If this was a reference to me, then as I made clear in a previous post, I am not, and have never been, a smoker.

[English Voyager]

I live in London, don't have a car and I do walk in the city centre.

 

I also believe that it is our interest and power to improve our health prospects.

 

Which brings me to ask, English Voyager, what is your point?

 

Happy sailing!

 

My point is that certain contributors have claimed that it is their 'right' to breath air unpolluted by cigarette smoke.

 

I was wondering if those people contributed to far more serious air pollution by other means.

 

Additionally, I was suggesting that walking in a city centre was potentially far more injurious to health than cigarette smoke wafting from a ship's next door balcony.

[markham]

And so, English Voyager, I better understand what's on your mind.

 

That said, it's of little interest to me. You see, I am hoping for less cigarette smoke nearby when I choose to travel on Seabourn ships, just as I would hope that there will be less harmful exhausts in city centers (or wherever you choose to discuss the question) over time.

 

And so as a frequent traveler and a concerned citizen, I am walking the walk and talking the talk- as in promoting change. That's for me and all those who have the same interest in improving our health prospects.

 

Happy sailing!

[turtlemichael]

I wonder if the non smokers who are angry at smoking being permitted on Seabourn ships refrain from contributing to air pollution by not driving a car particularly one with a diesel engine.

 

Do they also refrain from walking in city centres?

 

If not, what precautions do they take?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2547008/Can-car-exhaust-fumes-cause-dementia-Asthma-Heart-attacks-Cancer-Even-diabetes-Why-experts-fear-traffic-pollution-linked-list-health-problems.html

 

I disagree with your argument. What most people commenting here are concerned about is a Seabourn approved activity by other guests which substantially interferes with their enjoyment of their vacation. Whether they have any views on car pollution is as irrelevant to that as the price of fish in China.

[Tothesunset]

You have to love the "logic" of smokers when they try to defend the smell and health issue by referring to other issues

 

Almost as logically illigitimate as an anti-smoking fundamentalist travelling on, say, a cruise liner pumping pollution from its heavy oil diesel engines into the atmosphere while trying to imply their mortal fragility at threat from cigarette/cigar/pipe smoke?

Edited March 30, 2015 by Tothesunset

[markham]

Oh my!

 

Are you OK?

[Tothesunset]

Oh my!

 

Are you OK?

I will be when I've had a smoke!

[etual324]

I will be when I've had a smoke!

 

I am concerened about the SAFETY & FIRE issue when a cigarette butt is tossed over the side and the wind brings it back

 

As to the the smoke emitting from the stack it is not blown in your face

 

Just IMHO

Edited March 30, 2015 by etual324
SPELLING

[Kevnzworld]

The SB current rules currently allow smokers to smoke on their balconies, so they are within their legal rights to smoke. Though you have the right to engage in free discourse with your smoking neighbor to negotiate a compromise, and to encourage SB to change their future policy, and even to oddly continue to sign up for SB cruises KNOWING that balcony smoking is allowed, you do not have the right to harass and verbally assault your neighbor or otherwise "make his life miserable." I do not smoke, but hope that SB will not allow harassment and bullying of their invited smoking guests by other pax, anymore than they would allow harassment of people in wheelchairs, the morbidly obese, or people with children, all of whom can distress other pax in various ways ( e.g., screaming babies raise my difficult to control blood pressure) but who have a right to be there per terms of contract and passage.

 

If I was a smoker i would either not smoke on the balcony, or limit it. I would realize that though the activity is permitted, it's still rude. Expelling gas out of either of our bodily orifices in public is " permitted " too, but it's inconsiderate and rude. That's what the bathroom is for.

There are designated smoking areas on the ship where one can light up and harm only themselves. ( their bathroom ).

Comparing a person that chooses to smoke on their balcony without restraint to a handicapped person is ludicrous.

I wouldn't play loud music on my balcony either. On my last cruise my neighbor pointed out to me that I was leaving my balcony light on, which disturbed him at night. I apologized and turned it off.

We are coexisting within a relatively small and contained environment, I would expect cooperation and compromise. Making an uncooperative inconsiderate passengers life miserable though was an overstatement. I apologize.

I wouldn't quietly allow my use of the balcony to be eliminated without a fuss however.......

This archaic policy will change eventually, hopefully sooner than later.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Kevnzworld

[johnnycruise]

As to the the smoke emitting from the stack it is not blown in your face

 

Unless you're in a penthouse spa suite.

[Tothesunset]

I am concerened about the SAFETY & FIRE issue when a cigarette butt is tossed over the side and the wind brings it back

That is a fair comment. There are others whose concern is the smell of smoke on their balconies, which is a completely different issue.

 

I fail to understand why SB continues to allow smoking on balconies or in shared indoor public areas. Clearly, this is an annoyance to non-smokers. I also fail to understand why they don't have a humidor room along the lines of SS and RSSC. I suppose it's probably due to the cost of retro-fitting such a facility.

 

In the meanwhile, if one books a cruise and the smoking issue is of such importance then it behoves the potential customer to investigate the smoking rules on the prospective ship. Choosing to cruise on a ship where the smoking policy so clearly offends the cruiser seems a bit odd, to be honest.

 

We choose SS; one of the main reasons why we prefer this line to SB is their grown-up attitude to smoking i.e. a designated indoor smoking room (humidor or connoisseurs' corner) or aft outside.

 

And while it's fair to badger the line to change their policy, it is grossly unjust to try to intimidate other passengers who are conforming to the extant policy.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Tothesunset

[markham]

That didn't happen last summer when I was on Quest in cabin 1091. Nor was there any soot. Between the prevailing wind and the veranda's fabric canopy we experienced no unwanted filth.

 

Anyway, it would take little effort for Seabourn to ban smoking on cabin verandas and the Observation Bar.

 

That's what this thread is all about.

 

Happy sailing!

[Haworth]

When we sailed on the Sojourn, Manaus to Fort lauderdale, during the time on the Amazon there was a sign that smoking was not permittted in the Observation bar due to Brazillian regulations.

 

Although the ship is registered in the Bahamas I dont understand why EU anti smoking legislation does not apply in European waters as per the above

 

Having said that we have not experienced "anti social" smoking on any of our cruises, and this comes from an asthmatic with a deep dislike of smoking

[cello44]

Good grief, this has become overly complicated.

 

If the rules permit smoking, then by all means smoke!

 

I prefer a balcony.

 

I prefer a wife.

 

My wife prefers a balcony without smoke.

 

Seabourn doesn't seem to offer a balcony without smoke.

 

So, I've booked on Silversea.

 

Not very complicated.

Edited March 30, 2015 by cello44

[Tothesunset]

Good grief, this has become overly complicated.

 

If the rules permit smoking, then by all means smoke!

 

I prefer a balcony.

 

I prefer a balcony without smoke.

 

Seabourn doesn't seem to offer a balcony without smoke.

 

So, I've booked on Silversea.

 

Not very complicated.

 

But if you continue to show this sensible attitude you lose the comfort of moaning.

[English Voyager]

But if you continue to show this sensible attitude you lose the comfort of moaning.

 

The Victor Meldrew within us all is not easily silenced!

[Tothesunset]

The Victor Meldrew within us all is not easily silenced!

I don't believe it!

[markham]

I have enjoyed hearing from a few Silversea loyalists on this thread and now have a couple of observations:

 

1- it sounds as if the smokers among you are happy there- even though smoking on verandas is prohibited- due to the Silversea amenity of indoor smoking lounges.

 

2- I do not see on the Seabourn Encore deck plans any provision for such a smoker's lounge nor have I heard about any plan to retrofit the Odyssey class ships with them.

 

3- in the absence of an indoors smoking ban on Seabourn ships (and presumably

Silversea ships) the Brazilian authorities take matters in their own hands by

banning indoor smoking in their territorial waters.

 

4- while on the one hand Seabourn would appear to be chasing Silversea (as well as Regent, Crystal, Carnival and Cunard) loyalists who smoke when none of these 5 lines allow veranda smoking by allowing them to do so on Seabourn verandas, Seabourn does not appear interested in offering separate smoking lounges. Sounds like a disconnect and/or poorly conceived plan (or non-plan)

since in the meantime Seabourn is overlooking their loyal guests' overwhelming

interests in a smoke free Observation Bar and smoke free verandas.

 

Go figure....

 

Happy sailing!

Edited March 30, 2015 by markham

[vrhiatt]

Nope, I'm not voting with my wallet, other than in a reverse way by paying a steep premium for suites likely not to suffer second-hand smoke. Of course I'd prefer Seabourn ban veranda smoking but I will not boycott over it and I urge others not to do so. Cutting off your, if you will forgive me, nose to spite your face.

 

Also smoking in cabins is prohibited on Seabourn.

 

Hi Oktoberkat - I am curious as to why you think not cruising on SB is cutting off your nose to spite your face? There are other comparable cruise lines that do not allow smoking on balconies. I understand you believe your cabin selection has insulated you, but that does not apply to everyone. It seems to me avoiding SB when you have serious objections to second hand smoke is very logical.

[wally_bushy]

Almost as logically illigitimate as an anti-smoking fundamentalist travelling on, say, a cruise liner pumping pollution from its heavy oil diesel engines into the atmosphere while trying to imply their mortal fragility at threat from cigarette/cigar/pipe smoke?

 

Yawn.

See post #95

[OctoberKat]

Hi Oktoberkat - I am curious as to why you think not cruising on SB is cutting off your nose to spite your face? There are other comparable cruise lines that do not allow smoking on balconies. I understand you believe your cabin selection has insulated you, but that does not apply to everyone. It seems to me avoiding SB when you have serious objections to second hand smoke is very logical.

 

Thank you, vrhiatt, for the civil query, I appreciate it.

 

First and foremost, I don't agree there are comparable cruise lines. My recent experience with Regent on Navigator was satisfactory, sometimes fine but definitely not stellar and not special so I still seek a higher quality experience. This is my primary objection. It seems to be an article of faith here that there are at least two other cruise lines delivering comparable service. I surely don't see that so I needs must be educated.

 

We'll see if that is to be found on Silversea aboard Whisper in November Barbados/Amazon Manaus/Barbados. And, we are booked twice on Seabourn next year aboard Odyssey and Quest. I already know both Silversea and Seabourn deliver a better afternoon tea and I am looking forward to Seabourn's marina feature. The food wouldn't have to be especially outstanding to eclipse my Regent meals (other than the superb ice cream which I still am sweating off during my evening walks).

 

We've just started cruising at ages 65 and 72; for a variety of reasons our window for this most amenable form of traveling is a short one. Thus, we are sparing no expense and hope for the best cruising possible over the next two years. Hence, from my view, "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face." We won't risk foregoing what I hope to be exceptional cruising whilst Seabourn gets its act together.

 

Then there's this perhaps esoteric note: Jim and I come from the New Left and have watched sadly the failure of numerous boycotts. There are more effective ways to make change. No doubt some will ask, so here's my short list of effective methods:

 

-- Hit the streets and sidewalks, Pickett NCL shareholder meetings, Pickett outside ports when Seabourn sails;

-- Partner with unions (e.g., ILWU) to pressure Seabourn; without the cooperation of longshore in the U.S. and elsewhere, our baggage, ship supplies, etc., are going nowhere, hence ship cannot sail; unions love giving the bosses a hard time, plus it gives them a trade-off for negotiation (yes, I am cynical); also, can't you just see the beads of sweat popping out on NCL executive foreheads?!

-- Pressure Seabourn on social media;

-- Enlist national governments to prohibit balcony smoking in local waters;

-- Letter campaigns, email if you must;

-- Form an organized group, e.g., Seabourn Cruisers Against Smoking, and make effective pests of yourselves, raise money, recruit; I would join and contribute.

 

This latter approach has legs, consider it. If the passion on this thread is in any way representative, it's a slam dunk. Seriously, organize! Y'all are in the catbird seat.

 

Cheers to all.

Edited March 30, 2015 by OctoberKat

[Capri73]

SB has a Facebook page.You can write on that and state your eeling about smoking.

I just did.I said I would love to like their page but cannot until the smoking policy changes.

Easy way to get your voice heard.

[Sunprince]

Thank you, vrhiatt, for the civil query, I appreciate it.

 

First and foremost, I don't agree there are comparable cruise lines. My recent experience with Regent on Navigator was satisfactory, sometimes fine but definitely not stellar and not special so I still seek a higher quality experience. This is my primary objection. It seems to be an article of faith here that there are at least two other cruise lines delivering comparable service. I surely don't see that so I needs must be educated.

 

We'll see if that is to be found on Silversea aboard Whisper in November Barbados/Amazon Manaus/Barbados. And, we are booked twice on Seabourn next year aboard Odyssey and Quest. I already know both Silversea and Seabourn deliver a better afternoon tea and I am looking forward to Seabourn's marina feature. The food wouldn't have to be especially outstanding to eclipse my Regent meals (other than the superb ice cream which I still am sweating off during my evening walks).

 

We've just started cruising at ages 65 and 72; for a variety of reasons our window for this most amenable form of traveling is a short one. Thus, we are sparing no expense and hope for the best cruising possible over the next two years. Hence, from my view, "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face." We won't risk foregoing what I hope to be exceptional cruising whilst Seabourn gets its act together.

 

Then there's this perhaps esoteric note: Jim and I come from the New Left and have watched sadly the failure of numerous boycotts. There are more effective ways to make change. No doubt some will ask, so here's my short list of effective methods:

 

-- Hit the streets and sidewalks, Pickett NCL shareholder meetings, Pickett outside ports when Seabourn sails;

-- Partner with unions (e.g., ILWU) to pressure Seabourn; without the cooperation of longshore in the U.S. and elsewhere, our baggage, ship supplies, etc., are going nowhere, hence ship cannot sail; unions love giving the bosses a hard time, plus it gives them a trade-off for negotiation (yes, I am cynical); also, can't you just see the beads of sweat popping out on NCL executive foreheads?!

-- Pressure Seabourn on social media;

-- Enlist national governments to prohibit balcony smoking in local waters;

-- Letter campaigns, email if you must;

-- Form an organized group, e.g., Seabourn Cruisers Against Smoking, and make effective pests of yourselves, raise money, recruit; I would join and contribute.

 

This latter approach has legs, consider it. If the passion on this thread is in any way representative, it's a slam dunk. Seriously, organize! Y'all are in the catbird seat.

 

Cheers to all.

 

OctoberKat, thanks for your suggestions re the smoking policy. We will be taking our first "test" cruise this summer on Seabourn and being allergic to smoke I am hoping for a good experience and a change to the policy. As I stated on another thread re smoking, I am a believer that in this "social media" age, public shaming via social media is the best approach. A video of a smoky Observation Lounge on Seabourn or other situation posted to youtube (and/or other sites) can be very effective. The cruise lines spend so much money to promote an idyllic image of "luxury" that anything that diminishes that image can be seen by senior management as a "brand" attack. I would suggest attacking the "seabourn brand" via social media and see what type of reaction we get from senior management. Surely someone on CC knows an influential blogger, or travel writer that can further the "no smoking on Seabourn" cause??

[OctoberKat]

OctoberKat, thanks for your suggestions re the smoking policy. We will be taking our first "test" cruise this summer on Seabourn and being allergic to smoke I am hoping for a good experience and a change to the policy. As I stated on another thread re smoking, I am a believer that in this "social media" age, public shaming via social media is the best approach. A video of a smoky Observation Lounge on Seabourn or other situation posted to youtube (and/or other sites) can be very effective. The cruise lines spend so much money to promote an idyllic image of "luxury" that anything that diminishes that image can be seen by senior management as a "brand" attack. I would suggest attacking the "seabourn brand" via social media and see what type of reaction we get from senior management. Surely someone on CC knows an influential blogger, or travel writer that can further the "no smoking on Seabourn" cause??

 

Seabourn knows they are behind the curve on this so my nefarious mind wonders ... Here in the U.S. many think smoking is next door to perverted Satanism but it wasn't always so. There are many, and more populated regions, where smoking holds sway. But I don't know that those nationalities book with any more fervent frequency than other locales. We're I an ambitious hospitality grad school student, I might choose this as my thesis topic but, then, data would be a nightmare.

[Mr Luxury]

Octoberkat,

 

NCL has nothing to do with Seabourn

 

Seabourn is a Carnival Corp company.