Smoking...Again!!

[OctoberKat]

Yes, of course you are correct, too many cruise acronyms whirling around in my head.

[Baggywrinkle99]

Based on our experiences with Crystal, Regent, SB and Silversea then SB does offer a superior product in many ways (except the dreaded smoking policy) so boycotting them isn't necessarily an option for us. After we balance the pros and cons we're still willing to take the risk. But that doesn't make the policy good and it most certainly isn't popular - or safe.

 

I still think it's a marketing ploy by SB to attract smokers who might be looking for a cruise line that is more willing to accommodate their needs. We are looking at this from the perspective of a US/Euro society where smokers are increasingly regarded as pariahs who should be excluded or isolated. There are other parts of the world, Eastern Europe and especially Asia where smoking is much more prevalent and the cruise lines are actively seeking this lucrative clientele. If SB can offer the USP (Unique Selling Proposition) of allowing smoking in areas the other cruise lines don't they are gaining a commercial advantage which presumably outweighs any lost business from protesting non-smokers.

[Kevnzworld]

Happy to report that smoking hasn't been a problem on the cruise I'm currently on, Queat transatlantic.

Being on this ship for the last 24 hours reinforces my opinion that there are no other cruiselines comparable to Seabourn. I will reluctantly put up with smoking until they eventually change their policy.

[OctoberKat]

Forgive me, Kevnworld, but your post is a breath of fresh air.

[markham]

We are on Odyssey as our next Seabourn cruise in July. Needless to say,

I will (again) put in 2 places on the post cruise questionnaine and in the mid-cruise comment form from/to Guest Services that I find indoor smoking in the Observation Bar a health hazard and the same applies for smoke wafting from any nearby veranda.

 

Let's all do the same thing- twice for one cruise.

 

Happy sailing!

[cruiseej]

I've read this thread with interest, as we sail on our first Seabourn cruise in under 10 weeks. We have cruised on Regent and not on Seabourn before in part because of the smoking policy, but we decided to try Seabourn this time. I am hopeful smoking will not keep us from using our balcony, but I go into this knowing it might. (It will also be our last Seabourn cruise if the smoking bothers us.)

 

I'm curious why Seabourn doesn't try some sort of experiment to balance the desires of the seeming majority of cruisers who prefer a smoke-free experience and the valued customers who choose Seabourn, perhaps over other lines, because they are able to smoke: Why not run some cruises which allow balcony smoking on one side of the ship and not on the other side? That doesn't make it perfect for everyone, but it allows a large number of passengers to get what they want without interfering with what others desire.

 

Eric

[markham]

It amazes too, after discussing this topic for over a year on CC and writing letters to Seabourn Office of the President, that nothing has happened yet with the question of smoking on verandas and the Observation Bar. Apart from letters back saying "we want to balance the desires of smokers with nonsmokers' and "we are in line with industry trends in the global hospitality industry" which we have shown on this thread to to be just untrue.

 

There is one more thing: the management of Seabourn is a group from Holland America who apparently treat it as a mini-HAL because what they do stems from there. On HAL you can smoke on balconies and on Seabourn you can too. There is no differentiation even though HAL is a mid-market mid-price and mass-market brand whose customers, for all I know or care, all smoke. Seabourn, in contrast is a very expensive brand whose passengers really should not have to get all riled up about whether or not they can breathe clean air on verandas. And Seabourn's direct competition- Regent, Silversea, Cunard and Crystal- stopped veranda smoking at least a year ago.

 

How Carnival Corp chooses to administer the brands should make no difference as far as customer satisfaction and/or you and I are concerned. I get that this results in more buying power and streamlined, less costly internal operations versus the days when Seabourn was alone. But do HAL management really understand Seabourn passengers? Their actions do not

indicate that they do as far as the smoking issue is concerned.

 

Happy sailing!

[Catlover54]

Based on our experiences with Crystal, Regent, SB and Silversea then SB does offer a superior product in many ways (except the dreaded smoking policy) so boycotting them isn't necessarily an option for us. After we balance the pros and cons we're still willing to take the risk. But that doesn't make the policy good and it most certainly isn't popular - or safe.

 

I still think it's a marketing ploy by SB to attract smokers who might be looking for a cruise line that is more willing to accommodate their needs. We are looking at this from the perspective of a US/Euro society where smokers are increasingly regarded as pariahs who should be excluded or isolated. There are other parts of the world, Eastern Europe and especially Asia where smoking is much more prevalent and the cruise lines are actively seeking this lucrative clientele. If SB can offer the USP (Unique Selling Proposition) of allowing smoking in areas the other cruise lines don't they are gaining a commercial advantage which presumably outweighs any lost business from protesting non-smokers.

 

Perhaps that is the plan. But they have other ultraluxury competitors that allow balcony smoking, such as the beautiful and unique Europa2 that was released in 2013, to compete with. Its main language is German but Hapag is rapidly expanding marketing and services to English clientele are easily available on board ( see videos linked to by English Voyager on the "luxury cruising" forum) They also offer 8 restaurants, smart casual attire (no formals) a lot of classical music performances, and even dialysis as USPs! The market for cruisers is diverse, each can find their niche. I would love to get on that ship for the right itinerary given the beauty, restaurants, spa suite, and classical music ( do not need the dialysis yet). Smoking on verandas? A tertiary issue for me.

[OctoberKat]

Pricking up ears: classical music is a much desired amenity which was completely lacking on our Regent cruise and silence would have been preferable to what was played.

[lincslady]

Kevin ( I imagine that is your name?) not to hijack this thread, but if you had the time and inclination it would be good to get some reports on the Quest TA.

 

We will be on her in the not too distant, and would love to hear how everything is. I imagine she is fuller than Silversea Spirit, currently TAing with I believe only about 250 or so on board.

[markham]

Catlover54,

 

Europa2's unique selling points?

 

Dialysis, smoking on verandas and a sincere effort to reach out to English speakers on this German ship!?!?

 

I don't think I am ready for that yet. HA!

 

Happy sailing!

[English Voyager]

Catlover54,

 

Europa2's unique selling points?

 

Dialysis, smoking on verandas and a sincere effort to reach out to English speakers on this German ship!?!?

 

I don't think I am ready for that yet. HA!

 

Happy sailing!

 

The Europa 2 may be a German operated ship, but it is designed for the International market.

 

All staff are bilingual.

 

All announcements, daily programmes, menus, and port lectures are provided in English.

 

A hard copy English language newspaper of one's choice is produce daily.

 

Tours led by an English speaking guide are provided subject to there being sufficient demand.

[markham]

Hapag Lloyd may be all of that. But seriously...there is no coverage on CC by their past cruisers.

 

Why is that? If you have been why not start a thread somewhere so everyone can learn more?

 

Happy sailing!

[OctoberKat]

I'm curious, too.

[Catlover54]

Hapag Lloyd may be all of that. But seriously...there is no coverage on CC by their past cruisers.

 

Why is that? If you have been why not start a thread somewhere so everyone can learn more?

 

Happy sailing!

 

But there are reviews, though only four formal ones, one by English Voyager. And there is a huge thread on the "luxury cruising" forum ( under special interest cruising) that English Voyager started in 2013 that is still going strong with over 27,000 views and many links including you tube videos, e.g. from avidcruiser and other sources. English Voyager has definitely done his part ( thank you!)

 

But I seem to have created thread drift. My point in bringing up Europa2 was just to note that SB is not alone (for now) as a luxury cruise line in allowing veranda smoking, so they have competition.

[Silver Spectre]

-- Hit the streets and sidewalks, Pickett NCL shareholder meetings, Pickett outside ports when Seabourn sails;

-- Partner with unions (e.g., ILWU) to pressure Seabourn; without the cooperation of longshore in the U.S. and elsewhere, our baggage, ship supplies, etc., are going nowhere, hence ship cannot sail; unions love giving the bosses a hard time, plus it gives them a trade-off for negotiation (yes, I am cynical); also, can't you just see the beads of sweat popping out on NCL executive foreheads?!

-- Pressure Seabourn on social media;

-- Enlist national governments to prohibit balcony smoking in local waters;

-- Letter campaigns, email if you must;

-- Form an organized group, e.g., Seabourn Cruisers Against Smoking, and make effective pests of yourselves, raise money, recruit; I would join and contribute.

 

This latter approach has legs, consider it. If the passion on this thread is in any way representative, it's a slam dunk. Seriously, organize! Y'all are in the catbird seat.

 

Cheers to all.

 

Amazed at this type of suggestion over what is in essence a trival issue (for most of us). Surely some perspective is required here. There are real worldwide issues that are way more important.

 

Oh, I was amused that you might consider picketing a competitor company to try and change Seabourn, that's very New Left.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Silver Spectre

[rl787]

Amazed at this type of suggestion over what is in essence a trival issue (for most of us). Surely some perspective is required here. There are real worldwide issues that are way more important.

 

Oh, I was amused that you might consider picketing a competitor company to try and change Seabourn, that's very New Left.

 

I do love some of the tongue in cheek suggestions. Quite frankly there is little point going on about smoking simply because the Directors of Seabourn are fully aware of the opinion of some of its passengers and are not willing at this moment in time to do anything about it. I do understand that some people totally refuse to book with Seabourn because of its Smoking policy, that is there choice.....but not mine. The vast majority of us Non Smokers will still book with Seabourn as in most other areas they give us the vacation that we want, there is no such thing as perfection. In reality Seabourn will have market research data and software that will calculate fairly accurately what revenue they are gaining by allowing Smoking on the Balconies and the OB. Until this changes we can all threaten anything we like on this tiny forum, unfortunately it is not going to influence the situation at the moment.

[markham]

If it's hard to get out of bed in the morning- I mean, who doesn't like a lie in- then there's always something that gets the brain working, the feet perspiring and other functions going. That's why you can't stay in bed all that long.

 

And then there's the question of acting on one's post-waking priorities.... Making my personal case for better health outcomes on a cruise line that satisfies me immensely otherwise is a pleasure to do. And part of a daily routine, even during the few weeks yearly when I am on a Seabourn ship.

 

As of right now there are 7037 views of this thread on this "tiny forum" and I am feeling good about the impact it's having on the Seabourn faithful, those who are on the fence about whether they book a future cruise, and everybody else. That would include Seabourn management who cannot ignore the company's public face and, of course, those post cruise rating e-forms they urge everyone to complete.

 

I don't know what Seabourn does with whatever market research data they collect on current smoking policy. Maybe very little and/or maybe that has to do with certain management priorities like cost cutting or new ship design issues or staff assessments. But someone there is surely senior enough and aware enough to be in a position to make recommendations about change in this liberal smoking policy based on feedback. My main question is: when is that going to happen?

 

Happy sailing!

[kathy16]

I also agree that it is good to continue to make SB management aware of the majority of its passengers opinion about the current unhealthy and potentially dangerous smoking policy. Maybe, SB will finally listen to its passengers concerns/complaints!

Maybe, it will make more of a difference working from within, rather than just walking away, and booking with another luxury cruise line competitor.

 

I enjoy cruising on SB, and I have only had 1 bad experience (so far) with onboard smoking, and I was moved to another room, but with all the inconvenience that entailed.

 

I have an upcoming SB Med cruise , and I am apprehensive.

[Thecat123]

 

As of right now there are 7037 views of this thread on this "tiny forum" and I am feeling good about the impact it's having on the Seabourn faithful, those who are on the fence about whether they book a future cruise, and everybody else. That would include Seabourn management who cannot ignore the company's public face and, of course, those post cruise rating e-forms they urge everyone to complete.

 

I don't know what Seabourn does with whatever market research data they collect on current smoking policy.

Happy sailing!

I am not sure markham if your logic with the number of views of 7037 compared to the number of replies, 143, of which is mostly from the same dozen or so, would really change my thoughts if I was Seabourn management. It could be seen that the other 6800 odd who have viewed this topic and not replied are happy with the smoking arrangements as they stand now :)

Edited April 4, 2015 by Thecat123

[Sweetpea711423]

What I would like to see is a Smoking Lounge on Seabourn ships, in particular as my husband is a pipe and cigar smoker as part of his daily relaxation. That way there would still be someplace indoors for pipe and cigar smokers, especially for those times that the outside weather is not conducive to being outside. A lounge could also be a place to be used by cigarette smokers, perhaps allowing the elimination of cigarette smoking elsewhere.

 

For us Seabourn's smoking policy has always been too restrictive. This is the one reason we have not sailed on them, although have sailed many times on Silversea, Grills class on Cunard, and Regent before they adopted their restrictive smoking policy. These other lines have Smoking Lounges for use by pipe and cigar smokers. I expect there are others who enjoy pipes and cigars who would welcome such a lounge.

[Willem Ruys]

when do you plan for the goose-stepping and "sieg heiling" to begin or are you satisfied with the milder form of Italian fascist conformism onboard.

THAT'S my comment to the OP

[markham]

Willem,

 

There were 2 films followed by runs on Broadway of a show for you. It's called "The Producers" and it has all the action you mention.

 

Have you thought about auditioning if it makes it to your corner of the world? I mean, the producer was only trying to make money and in this thread the objective is less smoking on Seabourn ships- on verandas and the Observation Bar. Not a capital crime, now, is it?

 

Yes, you should put your imagination to use.

 

Happy sailing!

[wally_bushy]

I am not sure markham if your logic with the number of views of 7037 compared to the number of replies, 143, of which is mostly from the same dozen or so, would really change my thoughts if I was Seabourn management. It could be seen that the other 6800 odd who have viewed this topic and not replied are happy with the smoking arrangements as they stand now :)

 

It does not necessarily follow that they agree with the current policy.

It could also mean they agree with comments that are against the policy and no further comments are required.

[markham]

No one knows what the 6800 viewers believe about the current smoking policy. And it is wishful thinking at best to imagine that these viewers think the current policy is just ok and/or "we don't have an opinion about it". Remember we are talking about indoor smoking in a public lounge and smoking in a nearby veranda that results in smoke where you are breathing.

 

Do you think Seabourn is or should be concerned about 7300+ views and the views of 143 posters? I am sure that they are, as sure as I am that they read the contributions to cruisecritic.

 

What they do now is up to them.

 

Happy sailing!