Just for Discussion

[John&LaLa]

This is a fascinating thread, surprised it has not gotten more traction

[Grandma Petania]

Except for a 2-week Caribbean cruise that I won on a TV show way back in the 1960s, the only cruises I have taken have been to the Caribbean on The Oasis. I traveled a lot in my 30s, 40s, 50s & 60s. Six times to Europe, including a 3-month camping trip with my (now ex-) husband and our three children, aged 6, 11 & 16 years old. Four years after that, I did a 10-month camping trip by myself with the two youngest, who were then 10 & 15.

 

Approaching my 76th birthday, I am quite content to laze around on the large ship - having my room cleaned every day, eating at least 3 meals a day that I don't have to cook or clean up after, enjoying the entertainment on board the ship, and soaking in a hot tub before bed. I don't mind visiting the same ports, because I don't do well in the heat, and have only ventured as far as the shopping stalls on St. Thomas. However, I look forward to sailing on the Allure in 2017, partly to see shows that are different from the ones on the Oasis.

 

While reading different threads here on CC, I decided to check back to compare the prices I have paid for my Oasis cruises. The interior balcony in 2014 was to cut costs. I was planning to do the same in 2016 until I was offered a Central-Park Balcony at the same cost. (See explanation below)

 

In 2012 & 2015, my older daughter, son-in-law, grandson & I had two connecting D2 Ocean-View Balcony cabins. (The main reason for the ocean-view balconies was because my DSIL is wheelchair-bound, and he LOVED spending hours out on the accessible balcony instead of going to any of the shows.) The prices I've listed below are for just one cabin, in order to make a fair comparison to the three cruises with my younger daughter and myself - the one we took in 2014, and the two I have booked for 2016 on the Oasis & 2017 on the Allure. All prices include prepaid gratuities.

 

Nov. 2012 - OASIS - D2 Ocean-View Balcony - $3,166 - no OBC

 

Feb. 2014 - OASIS - L Interior - $1,841 - no OBC

 

Feb. 2015 - OASIS - D2 Ocean-View Balcony - $3,262 + $100 OBC -

(after 2 price drops from original $3,517)

 

Feb. 2016 - OASIS - C2 Central Park balcony - $2,380 + $300 OBC (booked while onboard in Feb. 2015. Price was only $300 more than an interior, and the OBC made up the difference.)

 

Jan. 2017 - ALLURE - C2 Central Park balcony - $1,722 - (Booked online 5/4/15 at beginning of the most recent WOW sale. No OBC so far. I plan to check while onboard Oasis in Feb. 2016 to see if I can get an even better deal, but I'll be perfectly content with this price, which is $258 less than the same cabin we'll have next February - with gratuities booked before the rate increase.)

 

My budget won't stretch for more than one cruise every year or two. I have no desire to upgrade to a suite. I'll never accumulate enough points to get any meaningful perks. I'm not a moneymaker for RCCL. I only drink water, I don't gamble, I don't eat in the specialty restaurants or book shore excursions, I don't buy any photos, and I rarely spend more than $20 or $30 in the onboard shops. I could easily become an arcade junky, so I didn't even let myself enter the new one on the Boardwalk this year. However, I do budget for extra tips in cash to waiters, room stewards, etc. They are very hard-working, and I know that the extra tips mean a lot to them.

 

A lot of people are whining about the increased price of alcohol, gratuities, etc. I realize that I am one of the most budget-conscious people on board, and I try to enjoy every minute of my special vacation - my week away from winter - to help me endure the couple of months till spring starts to arrive.

 

I must have proof read (and edited) my post at least a dozen times, but I didn't double check when I added the subject line - (which it won't let me change). I do know the difference between "cost" and "coast". :-)

Edited May 21, 2015 by Grandma Petania

[lbjen]

This whole website is proof that long time cruisers will continue to cruise regardless of what a cruise line will give them or not. The cruise lines are not sad to see someone who pays less, and gets a lot of free stuff, walk away whether it's to another line or away from cruising altogether. It's one more room they can sell to a full-paying customer, and three less drinks per night that they have to comp.

 

As for lower prices attracting passengers with lesser manners - these people are everywhere. It's coincidence that the prices dropped as you started seeing more of these people on your travels. They are bringing their kids up this way, and causing more and more people to give up trying to be polite and do the right thing as they swan around being treated like royalty while behaving like anything but. It's an epidemic sadly and one that shows no chance of ending.

[sail7seas]

Why do some corporations/companies find ways to have their older, experienced and higher paid employees weeded out and replaced with young, less experienced and lower paid employess? Economy.

 

Why would cruise lines not mind losing some of their highest loyalty level customers? Economy. Those benefits they have granted in their loyalty programs cost money. They would be happy to have far fewer who qualify. Get rid of the 'old timers' who often are not spending as much for photos,, excursions, items in the shops on board etc and stop giving out loyalty benefits.

 

New cruisers have no idea how much they are missing out on. They didn't enjoy the 'grand years of cruising' some here did. They will settle for less and think it is fine. Some of well know how much the cruise lines have cut back to the point of some cuts literally being painful. They would be fine with us finding elsewhere to vacation as they would prefer we don't tell all the 'new kids on the block' what we once enjoyed on the ships.

 

All that being said, I still love those ships and hope to continue sailing often. :)

 

Edited May 21, 2015 by sail7seas

[Funbobby68]

This is a fascinating thread, surprised it has not gotten more traction

 

 

Give it time , it's a very good read to see what the masses think of cost V/S service

[tarheelkate]

Yes, very well said!

 

As for how cruises are priced in comparison to a land vacation... I often travel to Orlando for the weekend. I've noticed that over the past five or so years, the nightly rate has stayed the same, and yet my total bill is creeping upwards.

 

My favorite hotel has kept their rate at only $115 per night. Yet the fine print now tacks on an additional $25 per day resort fee, and a $20 per day self parking fee - which brings the total to just over $180 per night.

 

And then I look up a 3 days cruise and see that enticing $199 per person price tag... Well it's just hard to say no.

[legaljen1969]

This whole website is proof that long time cruisers will continue to cruise regardless of what a cruise line will give them or not. The cruise lines are not sad to see someone who pays less, and gets a lot of free stuff, walk away whether it's to another line or away from cruising altogether. It's one more room they can sell to a full-paying customer, and three less drinks per night that they have to comp.

 

 

 

As for lower prices attracting passengers with lesser manners - these people are everywhere. It's coincidence that the prices dropped as you started seeing more of these people on your travels. They are bringing their kids up this way, and causing more and more people to give up trying to be polite and do the right thing as they swan around being treated like royalty while behaving like anything but. It's an epidemic sadly and one that shows no chance of ending.

 

 

I have found it to be more a case of "more money buys you more rudeness." It seldom seems the ones who paid the least have the least manners. No matter what, rude people are rude people. Money does not buy class.

[legaljen1969]

I've been in love with cruising since I was a kid. I remember when everyone took formal nights very seriously (my parents even had my 11 year old brother in a tux) and the white-gloved waitstaff would magically whip out those little bread crumbers in between courses. Glorious midnight buffets, not so that people would gorge themselves on food and then use it as a punch line for the comedy show -- but because it was a fantastic display of talent. Ice sculptures, carved fruit, wonderful food. Everything was An Event. I think my parents paid a pretty penny back in the day.

 

The family still loves to cruise, especially since it has become so affordable. And we reminisce about the way it "used to be." But the cruise lines haven't lost us as customers. The new lower price tag comes with a set of new, lower expectations for our vacation. And that's fine.

 

This may be another discussion entirely LOL, but it's very clear to me that the lower price tag does bring aboard a much lower quality clientele. And I don't mean in terms of net worth. Cruises are now overflowing with rude, inconsiderate, selfish, and demanding people. Where did they all come from? What makes some of these people think that a $500 week long vacation entitles them to being a jerk?

 

I hope this explanation doesn't come off as being some kind of attack, so I will attempt to explain. On my last cruise, I went up to a sun deck around 8am. There were a pair of chairs next to me that appeared to be "reserved" with ship towels. As the morning passed, and the time creeped towards 11, no one had shown up to claim the chairs. A couple asked me if they were reserved, and I said truthfully that I didn't know, I hadn't seen anyone in them since I had arrived 3 hours earlier. They couple placed the towels on the ground and took the chairs to another location. The sun moved, and I moved my chair to where the others had been. At noon, the original reservers showed up to claim their chairs and yelled at me for stealing their chairs, and demanded that I give them back. I tried to explain that their chairs were gone, and that I had simply moved mine in their place, but they would not stop yelling and making a scene. I left.

 

I've sat in a Solarium and had people sitting next to me turn on their radio instead of using headphones. I've had an 8pm dinner seating at a large, shared table, where the other party didn't arrive until 8:15 or 8:20 every night. And since the staff typically waits to take orders for the entire table at once, it meant that my husband and I just sat there waiting for them every night. We typically do the self-debarkation walk off, and will have gotten in line at 7am to be the first off the ship. After patiently waiting in line for an hour, an elevator of 15 people will push past and cut in line to get off the ship before us.

 

And the worst part is - the staff usually doesn't do anything about this kind of stuff. In my opinion, doing nothing in this case is the same as promoting the bad behavior. Of course these people will cruise again, and of course they will act like this again, which will encourage future guests to act like that.

 

So I am wildly off topic now. I suppose my point is that the appearance of reduced-fares and supposed "all-inclusive" packages are bringing in a different kind of clientele. I think this clientele will single handedly influence the type of service offered, the level of service provided, and the price charged for said service. I do believe this will eventually affect the bottom line, if it hasn't already.

 

 

Well said.

[SPacificbound]

For us I guess it is good that we are fairly new to cruising, so we don't have a lot of years to compare prices or trends.

 

Our first cruise was a little over two years ago, it was transportation, or so I thought when I booked it. Before the ship had even left Sydney Harbour I was hooked.

 

We do have a lot of years of land/fly travel in different parts of the world, so we are very aware of what that cost.

 

We have two Med cruises and a TA coming up in October, and again next October. The prices were not that much different for 2016 compared to 2015. Under $200. PP in D1 balconies.

 

We aren't drinkers beyond a drink at the show each night, so can't complain about the drink packages and prices.

 

We can spend 12 to 18 nights on a cruise ship, that being our transportation...... Trans Pacific, Trans Atlantic, or the "end of the world" back to a US port. It also serves as our hotel and restaurant for way less then we can buy FC plane tickets.

 

So far I have been able to book our cruises (except Alaska) where we only have to fly one way, and that is a big plus. We are fortunate to have the time to be able to do this.

 

I agree with the gentleman on the first page, it is likely that only 5-10% of the people who cruise even know about CC, so those folks aren't coming on complaining about the good old days, but I bet they are still enjoying the sea.

 

Do I want to sit out on the balcony reading and watching the sea? Or do I want to sit at 37,000 feet reading a book?

 

No comparison, I'll take the sea. :)

[marco]

I've been cruising since the 60's as a kid with my parents. I got hooked on ship travel and have been cruising ever since. Proportionately, on board expenses were much, much less expensive then ashore. Today they are comparable and in some instances higher on ships but.....A cruise we took 2 years ago cost only $30 more then a cruise we took 30 years ago. Same cabin category, same # of days same basic Caribbean itinerary. They attract clientele (particularly newbies) with low rates and hope to make their profit on the on boar discretionary spending. They have to. I see folks constantly posting about cut backs in food, service, staff etc. Well....if they are going charge what they charged 30 years ago, they gotta' cut back somewhere. And as an aside, the casino is a good profit producer.....on my first few cruises, there were NO casinos on board. Also, we tendered into many ports and the ports and docks were pretty minimal, but looking at an old cruise ticket (ya, I have boxes and boxes of cruise memorabilia) port taxes for a two week Caribbean cruise were $12. Now they run $150-$200 for a comparable cruise. It's us passengers who are paying for the docks complete with mini-malls, shops, bars and restaurants just steps off the ship. Yes, the cruise industry has morphed into something completely different then what it was "way back when" IMO: Some changes for the better, some.....not so much.

[crenee44]

I think if any business is going to try to cater to the same demographic vs the same loyal people, they will have to change. The result will inevitably alienate the loyal.

 

For example, a bar with the latest music and cheap drinks would end up having to add a kids menu and bounce house in 5-10 years to keep the exact same people coming in.

 

Think of the old social clubs named after animals or for former military members. They chose to focus on the loyal vs trying to attract new people. If you go today, they haven't changed in 40 years and they love it that way. That's fine of course. But they also haven't gotten many new members in 40 years either.

[Talisker92]

My first cruise was on the original Sun Princess in 1988. Since then I have cruised on many lines that are no longer around- Royal, Regency, Bermuda Star. Right now I cruise Princess, but as I age, I am no longer interested in highly port intensive cruises. For the cruise line, this means less revenue from shore excursions.

Also being on the West Coast, the great deals on Caribbean cruises is wiped out by the cost of airfare.

Hopefully, the megaship ideas are dying out, because unless you want the ship as your destination, the port infrastructures limit the number of places they can go.

I was in Skagway some time ago, and as of the 2010 census, the population was 920. However, the population doubles in the summer tourist season in order to deal with more than 900,000 visitors.

Talk about overloading!

I am not sure what direction cruising is taking, but it will be interesting to see.

[navybankerteacher]

The cruise industry, like every other for-profit enterprise, will continually experiment to find new ways to improve the bottom line. This must always involve growing revenue and/or (but almost always both) and reducing costs - both capital and operating. The lines grow revenue by increasing capacity (more ships/larger ships) or raising fares. Since fares, especially among the mass market, seem pretty inelastic, revenue growth must come from on board spending - which is stimulated by reducing quantity/quality of included amenities and new gimmicks. Of course, reducing quantity/quality, largely in staff ratios, and in included meals cuts costs while stimulating revenue.

 

These continuing changes will alienate some older cruisers, but the lower fares made possible will attract many new cruisers to the newer ships designed for that new cruiser market.

 

Some of the changes may be reversed if they turn out to not contribute to the bottom line as expected, but change of one sort or another is unavoidable. My personal hope is that the older ships will last as long as I do, because I hope to continue cruising - even as I am alienated by many of the changes.

[JohnGaltny]

Just reread the entire thread.

 

Thanks to all who made this a rational and unusually civil discussion. GREAT thoughts everyone.

[JohnGaltny]

Why do some corporations/companies find ways to have their older, experienced and higher paid employees weeded out and replaced with young, less experienced and lower paid employess? Economy.

 

Why would cruise lines not mind losing some of their highest loyalty level customers? Economy. Those benefits they have granted in their loyalty programs cost money. They would be happy to have far fewer who qualify. Get rid of the 'old timers' who often are not spending as much for photos,, excursions, items in the shops on board etc and stop giving out loyalty benefits.

 

New cruisers have no idea how much they are missing out on. They didn't enjoy the 'grand years of cruising' some here did. They will settle for less and think it is fine. Some of well know how much the cruise lines have cut back to the point of some cuts literally being painful. They would be fine with us finding elsewhere to vacation as they would prefer we don't tell all the 'new kids on the block' what we once enjoyed on the ships.

 

All that being said, I still love those ships and hope to continue sailing often. :)

 

 

I missed this the first time through and I think there is some validity here.

 

My last cruise on Explorer in 2014 was, to the veterans, a disaster yet to our 4 first time cruisers, they saw nothing wrong (except for the random blood on my sons' sheets).

 

Still, I ran businesses for some years and it was always harder to develop new clients than to retain existing ones.

[GottaKnowWhen]

I am an avid reader of these boards and I think I am seeing an interesting trend across all lines. I post it here because I am an RCI person first above all.

 

The short question: Did the cruise industry price itself to non-profitability?

Second short question: Will they alienate repeat cruisers too much by adding costs and cutting services?

 

We all know on this board about Royal cutting perks and adding costs (ie: the 40% drink price hike, the room service charge et al.)

 

However, NCL has added a total room service charge of $7.95 (excluding suites), forbidden taking full plates from the buffet and also hiked drink prices.

 

I haven't researched Princess or Carnival, but I wonder if they are doing similar things.

 

SOOOOOO, are the cruise lines coming to the point where the all inclusives on land will be competitive? Are they deciding to go after the "new" cruisers and alienate the veterans? Is it a valid business plan??

 

What say you all?

Worldwide, almost one million people joined the list of millionaires last year, about 350,000 new millionaires in the U.S. alone. The economy is booming, the stockmarket keeps flirting with new highs, unemployment is down... Sounds like a period of increased leisure demand to me. Capacity is limited (yeah, new ships on order, but older ships are getting retired or sold off to minor players so the net increase isn't that great). Perfect time for companies to maximize profit to build up the reserves and to pay down the debt from all those shiny new ships.

[cruiser1247]

We cruise on Celebrity mostly and Royal. Over the last three years I have seen the coast of cruising go up a lot.

 

Two years ago we took a 14 day cruise with Celebrity, the price was OK, we enjoyed it so much we booked it again last year, the price went up to $4200 and they gave us the 321 package, that was ok.

 

We tried to book it again for this year and I was put back on how much the coast went up (we book on board) so we booked a cruise for 11 days that coast more than the 14 day and 3 day less. the 14 day was around $6000.

 

Celebrity has dropped the 321 packages. I think that the cruise lines are being to aggressive in there pricing. For us we are starting to look into land vacations, we are not new to cruising (14 cruises) but this year may be our last.