Lawsuit Filed Against HAL After Horrific Attack

[Dayenu]

Ah, this is why he had the keys! I thought people who work with food deliver it.

[cbr663]

This is terrible. I hope she wins the lawsuit if not for her, to prevent the future attacks.

 

So all employees have an easy access to the master keys? This is scary.

 

The problem is that we don't know who had access to master keys and who didn't. We don't know what protocols were in place for the security of master keys nor do we know whether these protocols, if in place, were being followed.

 

All crew are in a position of formidable trust. They work daily behind the scenes and are privy to any weaknesses or vulnerabilities that may exist in the operations. Unfortunately, some feel the need to take advantage of any vulnerabilities.

[Lauranne]

food can be delivered by a variety of people - dining room, Lido, yum yum men. Other than stewards and concierges (I think that completes the list), none of them have a key to the stateroom. They can't bring it in - you have to open the door

 

Actually, Kazu, while on the Amsterdam we ordered breakfast one morning for a certain time. We went for an early walk on the Promenade deck and arrived back a few minutes later than the requested breakfast time. It was sitting on the table when we arrived back at our stateroom. I have no idea if the room service attendant brought the food in or our Steward let him/her in. I didn't think to ask at the time. As I am travelling with my daughter in July, rather than my husband, I am a bit concerned.

Laurie

[zerbot]

Hi Hank,

 

> Bottom line was that the victim did absolutely nothing wrong (or that contributed to the assault) and she is a very lucky lady to be alive.

 

He didn't attack her at random. You might recall that she called the cabin attendant "a son of a bitch", which he felt was a grave slur on his mother and the rest of his family.

 

One must be careful what one says when dealing with people from other cultures.

 

That was his testimony, there is no other evidence that she did, in fact say that, and even if she had, it doesn't excuse his attack and attempted murder. We don't hear about other members of his culture doing similar things in retaliation for "grave slurs" so blaming it on cultural insensitivity doesn't fly. People accused of crimes often try to shift the blame to the victim. I sat on a jury where a woman hit a legally parked car injuring a man in the passenger seat, and she tried to claim he was at fault for his injuries because he wasn't wearing a seat belt.

[kazu]

Actually, Kazu, while on the Amsterdam we ordered breakfast one morning for a certain time. We went for an early walk on the Promenade deck and arrived back a few minutes later than the requested breakfast time. It was sitting on the table when we arrived back at our stateroom. I have no idea if the room service attendant brought the food in or our Steward let him/her in. I didn't think to ask at the time. As I am travelling with my daughter in July, rather than my husband, I am a bit concerned.

Laurie

 

I would be concerned too in your situation. I've never had room service delivered by my steward - laundry yes - room service no.

 

Also been told that if you don't answer the door they go away and I have seen that. So, experiences vary.

 

don't order it a lot but when we do it's usually a yum yum man or a dining room steward, but experiences obviously vary.

 

We do longer cruises normally - I can't see that making a difference but in view of Sail's post and yours I am wondering????

 

I heard that some volunteer to do it for the tips. I do know we tended to have the same person often (and we do tip).

 

none of them had a key.

 

Wondering if the steward accommodated your room service and let them in to deliver?

[sail7seas]

I would be concerned too in your situation. I've never had room service delivered by my steward - laundry yes - room service no.

 

Also been told that if you don't answer the door they go away and I have seen that. So, experiences vary.

 

don't order it a lot but when we do it's usually a yum yum man or a dining room steward, but experiences obviously vary.

 

We do longer cruises normally - I can't see that making a difference but in view of Sail's post and yours I am wondering????

 

I heard that some volunteer to do it for the tips. I do know we tended to have the same person often (and we do tip).

 

none of them had a key.

 

Wondering if the steward accommodated your room service and let them in to deliver?

 

 

 

;) The stewards assigned to deliver Room Service are from DINING Department.

Years ago, when we first started sailing HAL, cabin Stewards delivered Room Service orders to 'their guests' cabins. It has been a very long time there are now assigned (Dining) Stewards assigned for Room Service.

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2015 by sail7seas

[POA1]

Don't forget to supply your email address.

[sail7seas]

It has been my understanding Room Service Stewards (from dining department) do not have cabin keys. When you find a tray left in your cabin, I think it somewhat possible cabin steward let him in. Others have posted Room Service have keys but that is contrary to the answers I received when I specifically asked.

 

[iancal]

What really happened is pure speculation.

 

Like others have said, we will never know. This thing will get settled out of court and there will be a binding confidentiality clause.

 

They have probably already had one or two test low ball offers from HAL's counsel or their insurer's counsel.

[Himself]

The thing that disturbs me the most about this whole thing (where the situation is at NOW), and trust me, I was shocked and appalled by the whole situation... truly terrible and I hope the guy rots in jail, then hell...

 

The lawsuit claims they put more emphasis on a toilet issue than on a 911 call... What is that statement based on? It's a really unfair statement that I believe doesn't have a basis in fact and is simply there to make people's mouths drop open a little more and a little longer than they otherwise would.

 

I do agree with HAL that this was out of their control and how could they have known he posed a risk, but agree with others that assume there will be a confidential settlement agreement...

 

Just sad all the way around :(

 

I agree, it is sad all the way around. As I recall this happened on a HAL Charter. It was, as I remember a "Nude Cruise." It would seem to me that these cruises put might put temptations in the way of people that might not otherwise be there. It might be wise to consider not chartering the ship to such groups.

[OCruisers]

It will be interesting to follow.

[Boytjie]

I agree, it is sad all the way around. As I recall this happened on a HAL Charter. It was, as I remember a "Nude Cruise." It would seem to me that these cruises put might put temptations in the way of people that might not otherwise be there. It might be wise to consider not chartering the ship to such groups.

 

 

The charter passengers did not do anything wrong. I know for gay charters staff have an option to swap off the cruise if they object. I would think the same would go for nude charters.

[Jules2307]

Hi Hank,

 

> Bottom line was that the victim did absolutely nothing wrong (or that contributed to the assault) and she is a very lucky lady to be alive.

 

He didn't attack her at random. You might recall that she called the cabin attendant "a son of a bitch", which he felt was a grave slur on his mother and the rest of his family.

 

One must be careful what one says when dealing with people from other cultures.

 

What are the reasons her lawyers have for making pix available to the press other than trying to pressure HAL into an out-of-court settlement?

 

Ira

 

Whatever she said or did (even if it was a nude charter), absolutely nothing could warrant an attack or any kind, especially one so violent. I frequently stub my toe while racing around a small stateroom to get cash out to tip the delivery guy, I also frequently yell "SOB" when that happens. It doesn't give anyone the right to attack me over a perceived slur.

 

I applaud her lawyers for releasing the photos. Not because it might pressure HAL but because before now, she was some faceless victim who had been attacked. We didn't know what kind of brutal attack it was, other than that she was raped. The photos make you look and acknowledge what this poor woman went through.

[kjw869]

It has been my understanding Room Service Stewards (from dining department) do not have cabin keys. When you find a tray left in your cabin, I think it somewhat possible cabin steward let him in. Others have posted Room Service have keys but that is contrary to the answers I received when I specifically asked.

 

 

Yes, that is what has happened to us twice. Our room steward was called by the Neptune Lounge to let the room service steward in the cabin. Both times, the service was quicker than expected (within 10-12 minutes) and we were on our balcony.

[KirkNC]

This can't go well for HAL, they should settle as quickly as possible, review their mistakes in this matter and make corrections.

 

I just hope the poor woman finds some peace at some point in her life.

[Hlitner]

Hi Hank,

 

> Bottom line was that the victim did absolutely nothing wrong (or that contributed to the assault) and she is a very lucky lady to be alive.

 

He didn't attack her at random. You might recall that she called the cabin attendant "a son of a bitch", which he felt was a grave slur on his mother and the rest of his family.

 

One must be careful what one says when dealing with people from other cultures.

 

What are the reasons her lawyers have for making pix available to the press other than trying to pressure HAL into an out-of-court settlement?

 

Ira

 

We think your attempt at rationalization is disturbing. By your way of thinking if you were to have a lousy mean in the MDR and complain to a waiter, and then the Chef came storming out of the galley and cut off both your hands with a cleaver, it would have been your fault?

 

As to the SOB comment, as I recall the lady simply yelled SOB through a closed door when the steward knocked in the morning. Must admit I have done the same when DW waked me in the morning :). But even if she had looked that crew member straight in the face and called him a SOB, we do not think that justifies stalking, raping, and nearly beating the lady to death! In fact, the thought is so totally repugnant that its beyond discussion.

 

Hank

[dhill]

The thing that disturbs me the most about this whole thing (where the situation is at NOW), and trust me, I was shocked and appalled by the whole situation... truly terrible and I hope the guy rots in jail, then hell...

 

The lawsuit claims they put more emphasis on a toilet issue than on a 911 call... What is that statement based on? It's a really unfair statement that I believe doesn't have a basis in fact and is simply there to make people's mouths drop open a little more and a little longer than they otherwise would.

 

I do agree with HAL that this was out of their control and how could they have known he posed a risk, but agree with others that assume there will be a confidential settlement agreement...

 

Just sad all the way around :(

 

And how do you know what higher emphasis was put on.You say it is an unfair statement what do you base that statement on? Were you there do you have any proof of what went on?You have no idea just quick to jump and protect the cruise company no matter what.We all know it was at terrible thing but don't make assumptions with out knowing the facts.:eek:

[zerbot]

We think your attempt at rationalization is disturbing. By your way of thinking if you were to have a lousy mean in the MDR and complain to a waiter, and then the Chef came storming out of the galley and cut off both your hands with a cleaver, it would have been your fault?

 

It's very common that when confronted with a horrific crime, people try to reassure themselves that nothing like that could ever happen to them. One of the ways they do that is to try to find something about the victim that doesn't apply to them that must have "provoked" the attack.

[Iowa-Cruiser]

I'd like to see Holland America raked over the coals for this, but HAL cheerleaders can take pride in this quote:

 

"Attorneys for the cruise line claim Holland America couldn’t have known of Pujayasa’s propensity for sexual misconduct. Acting on the cruise line’s behalf, they denied wrongdoing and have asked that the lawsuit be dismissed." http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Attorney-Holland-America-failed-woman-raped-6293239.php#page-2

 

There are statements that defense lawyers make as part of the routine in EVERY civil suit against a corporation. This is one of them. It rarely if ever works and the motion is just as routinely dismissed by the judge.

 

So why should HAL be "raked over the coals" for this? What did the CORPORATION do that was evil? It is not like they intentionally hired someone they knew would assault a passenger. As a service and entertainment company I am sure this is not sitting well with them and they are actively working on ways to prevent it for happening again. But the reality is that people are a difficult variable and can not be controlled. Corporations can and should be held accountable for the actions of their employees, but not vilified for them unless the actions are often repeated.

[zerbot]

So why should HAL be "raked over the coals" for this? What did the CORPORATION do that was evil? It is not like they intentionally hired someone they knew would assault a passenger. As a service and entertainment company I am sure this is not sitting well with them and they are actively working on ways to prevent it for happening again. But the reality is that people are a difficult variable and can not be controlled. Corporations can and should be held accountable for the actions of their employees, but not vilified for them unless the actions are often repeated.

 

Not for that unless he had a record that HAL should have known. But if it is in fact true that their response to the 911 calls from other passengers was so lackadaisical as to allow the attack to go on for so long, as well as their control of master keys so poor as to allow it to happen in the first place, then yes, they should be raked over the coals for that.

[sail7seas]

Not for that unless he had a record that HAL should have known. But if it is in fact true that their response to the 911 calls from other passengers was so lackadaisical as to allow the attack to go on for so long, as well as their control of master keys so poor as to allow it to happen in the first place, then yes, they should be raked over the coals for that.

 

It is possible (likely) we will never know and honestly, I really don't want to know. I wish the victim wonderful professional care that enables her to recover and lead a full life.

 

 

[ger_77]

My only hope is that the victim receives enough compensation to cover costs of rehabilitation (both mentally and physically) to enable her to restore some semblance of normalcy to her life.

 

Smooth Sailing! :) :) :)

[mr. godfredo]

This whole situation is very sad! Though I do not fault cruise lines for their hiring process, they do need to be held accountable for proper safety and procedures. It is only reasonable to expect that if someone calls 911 on a ship that the call be responded to right away! Cruise ships always tel us that safety is a priority and this situation proved that it wasn't taken as such on this particular cruise/ship. I pray that the victim will make a recovery! I believe that she is entitled to be compensated and that HAL be held liable for the lack of appropriate response to a deadly situation. In a situation like this, nobody wins!!!:(

[sail7seas]

This whole situation is very sad! Though I do not fault cruise lines for their hiring process, they do need to be held accountable for proper safety and procedures. It is only reasonable to expect that if someone calls 911 on a ship that the call be responded to right away! Cruise ships always tel us that safety is a priority and this situation proved that it wasn't taken as such on this particular cruise/ship. I pray that the victim will make a recovery! I believe that she is entitled to be compensated and that HAL be held liable for the lack of appropriate response to a deadly situation. In a situation like this, nobody wins!!!:(

 

Who here KNOWS how long it took for security to respond to a 911 call?

How do they know?

 

[iancal]

Exactly.

 

No one on this board knows the facts. It is all meaningless conjecture.

 

And we will never know as long as this is settled out of court.