Royal Caribbean Ditches Dynamic Dining for Non-Quantum Class Cruise Ships

[Polarbear Pa]

Thank goodness DD was the worst idea ever. Unfortunately still can not sail out of Bayonne but still lots of options. Thank you RCCL.

[SherriZ366]

By the time Freedom had her dry dock, they had already "delayed" deployment of DD.

And they made no changes to FR's 3 dining rooms (except to add tables to accommodate the new cabins).

[riclop]

No problems for us as we go to the MDR a couple of nights, buffet and pay restaurants.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

All of the DD fiasco reminds me of when Princess launched the Sapphire and Diamond each w / 4 anytime dining venues, each with its own themed menu in place of the two "normal" anytime dining rooms. It took around six months before Princess corporate abandoned the idea and reverted all 4 venues to standard menus that featured a uniques nightly entrees special that fit the theme of each dining room. The rooms still retain their decor but now have the same menus as any MDR in the fleet.

 

I suspect within 12-18 months that the Anthem menus will change and become normal MDR menus with "specials" offered each evening that fit the theme of the room and that DD as we currently know it will slowly fade into obscurity.

 

Even NCL - the champions of freestyle cruising - have kept traditional cruise ship MDR menus even if the ships have multiple MDR's. The average cruiser still wants that experience and if they want something unique can avail themselves of speciality dining options, which suits most passengers.

[Biker19]

The composition of the menu is a separate issue from DD itself (what they eat vs. when/where they get that food). DD has already been altered since roll out (like addition of Classic) and further changes can be expected.

 

One of the things that drove DD was the design of the ship - no more open multiple level dining venue (which has a lot of wasted space) - just multiple venues with less seating in proportion to capacity than previous ships. That trend I believe will continue in future designs.:cool:

[cruiseclues]

Good News to Me. :):):):)

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

All of the DD fiasco reminds me of when Princess launched the Sapphire and Diamond each w / 4 anytime dining venues, each with its own themed menu in place of the two "normal" anytime dining rooms. It took around six months before Princess corporate abandoned the idea and reverted all 4 venues to standard menus that featured a uniques nightly entrees special that fit the theme of each dining room. The rooms still retain their decor but now have the same menus as any MDR in the fleet.

 

I suspect within 12-18 months that the Anthem menus will change and become normal MDR menus with "specials" offered each evening that fit the theme of the room and that DD as we currently know it will slowly fade into obscurity.

Even NCL - the champions of freestyle cruising - have kept traditional cruise ship MDR menus even if the ships have multiple MDR's. The average cruiser still wants that experience and if they want something unique can avail themselves of speciality dining options, which suits most passengers.

 

As much as I'd love that to happen, I'm not so sure if it's even possible.

 

But I'm not exactly sure what you're saying... Are you saying that DD will be completely abandoned and will run like a normal MDR? Or are you saying that it will still have regular DD and DD Classic, just with different menus? If the former, I don't think there is enough seating on the Anthem to have regular structured Traditional dining.

[Maraprince]

As much as I'd love that to happen, I'm not so sure if it's even possible.

 

But I'm not exactly sure what you're saying... Are you saying that DD will be completely abandoned and will run like a normal MDR? Or are you saying that it will still have regular DD and DD Classic, just with different menus? If the former, I don't think there is enough seating on the Anthem to have regular structured Traditional dining.

 

If RCL is able to chop up a MDR to create DD, why can it not also combine some of the smaller dining venues to create a MDR? Instead of having multiple kitchens to cook the different DD restaurant menus, they could go back to having one larger kitchen to cook for everyone. The space for the different kitchens could be added back to create the MDR. If RCL can take away the Chamber on Explorer to add cabins and create a new cabins on its upper deck, they can add a MDR.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

If RCL is able to chop up a MDR to create DD, why can it not also combine some of the smaller dining venues to create a MDR? Instead of having multiple kitchens to cook the different DD restaurant menus, they could go back to having one larger kitchen to cook for everyone. The space for the different kitchens could be added back to create the MDR. If RCL can take away the Chamber on Explorer to add cabins and create a new cabins on its upper deck, they can add a MDR.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

 

 

Well, I never said that they couldn't do that. My post was based upon the logistics and facts of the 4 complimentary venues on Anthem as they are at this time. When compared to other ships, there are not enough seats in the complimentary restaurants on Anthem to have it run as a normal MDR with two seatings and MTD. Now if they were to expand the venues, that would be a different story, but I doubt that will happen. Don't get your hopes up though, because I HIGHLY doubt that RCI will dump DD on the Q Class ships. One of their reasons for canceling DD on Oasis Class was the fact that they were not built with DD in mind. The Q Class ships WERE built with DD in mind, and its most likely going to stay. Plus, it's good to have options... DD will remain on Q Class ships, but will not expand to the other ships in the fleet. That leaves 20 something ships with a traditional MDR.

[Paulxyz2004]

To me it´s the best News !!!

 

I´m not keen on the Quantum class anyway, so shouldn´t be too hard to avoid it.

 

I´m just glad RCI listened to the Feedback. I´ve mentioned how ill thought DD is on every Survey since they announced it.

[CruiseMore1]

To me, it's good news.

 

Just wish they had not removed that beautiful chandelier on Oasis - and I'm guessing also on Allure!

[Biker19]

I´m just glad RCI listened to the Feedback. I´ve mentioned how ill thought DD is on every Survey since they announced it.

 

Many people assume that DD was cancelled on Oasis class ships due to customer feedback - how can that even be possible when it was never even tried on any Oasis class ship?

 

It is much more likely that the bean counters figured out that either there were no cost savings to be realized (on Quantum class they had to add staff to make it work) or the implementation would be too difficult. Oasis is RCI's cash cow and they simply didn't want to risk it. If they thought they could make more money, they would have continued with DD implementation (regardless of poor initial feedback).

[RocketMan275]

Many people assume that DD was cancelled on Oasis class ships due to customer feedback - how can that even be possible when it was never even tried on any Oasis class ship?

 

It is much more likely that the bean counters figured out that either there were no cost savings to be realized (on Quantum class they had to add staff to make it work) or the implementation would be too difficult. Oasis is RCI's cash cow and they simply didn't want to risk it. If they thought they could make more money, they would have continued with DD implementation (regardless of poor initial feedback).

 

Highly likely due to bean counters.

 

One of the features of DD was the reduction in the size of the complimentary venues on Quantum Class. All other classes are sized to feed the passengers in two seatings. Quantum has fewer seats in the MDR and must 'turn the tables' three times to get all seated. Extending DD to Oasis class will not result in a reduction of MDR seating. Net result - no savings on Oasis class.

 

Another feature was the automation of meal service saving on waitstaff. Evidently this did not work and RCI had to additional staff. Net result - No savings on any class.

 

Does this mean DD is dead? Not likely. Expect new designs to features less dining space. Expect better software.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Highly likely due to bean counters.

 

One of the features of DD was the reduction in the size of the complimentary venues on Quantum Class. All other classes are sized to feed the passengers in two seatings. Quantum has fewer seats in the MDR and must 'turn the tables' three times to get all seated. Extending DD to Oasis class will not result in a reduction of MDR seating. Net result - no savings on Oasis class.

 

Another feature was the automation of meal service saving on waitstaff. Evidently this did not work and RCI had to additional staff. Net result - No savings on any class.

 

Does this mean DD is dead? Not likely. Expect new designs to features less dining space. Expect better software.

 

When RCCL added DD "classic" they basically adopted the same dining format as the rest of the fleet - early, late and MTD - just under a different name. Right now DD classic rotates diners through the 4 dining rooms with the same table mates and waitstaff, so if complaints continue I could see them going to a standard menu program like the rest of the fleet for all 4 venues, with each having a few "specials" each night to fit its theme and discontinue the rotational aspect of "classic" DD. whether the remaining DD seating (think MTD) has two or three turnovers is irrelevant as the spaces are currently serving fixed early/late seating AND open seating just like the rest of the fleet. Also even though the dining venues occupy a smaller total spatial volume than on other classes, not having the large open central area may mean there is an equal amount of dining floor space ratio per passenger to other ships in the fleet.

 

As far as decor goes I'd expect the Oasis/Allure to retain the changed decor until next due for drydock in 4-5 years. At that time they will decide whether to redo or leave as is. Same goes for Q-class.

 

Bean counters or not, RCCL hit a foul note w/ the core of its passenger base and appears to be rethinking the concept. Personally I love the idea as it basically gives 4 complimentary restaurants each with a distinctive cuisine type. I'm an open seating dining person and like a wide variety of foods so am in the perfect target market for DD. I'm actually sad to see it did not resonate well and will be relegated to a niche ship class, and possibly phased out in future. I'm obviously in the minority.

[KBD1516]

We were on Quantum for 16 days with DD and we liked it. Seemed like the food was better with the individual kitchens. We had many more choices for lunch and each had different menus. We usually shared a table and saw a few people more than once. But we did miss having regular table mates and we felt like we didn't really get to know many people with DD. I miss it as well when we have anytime dining. I would certainly sail with DD again but I do like traditional seating.

[RocketMan275]

When RCCL added DD "classic" they basically adopted the same dining format as the rest of the fleet - early, late and MTD - just under a different name. Right now DD classic rotates diners through the 4 dining rooms with the same table mates and waitstaff, so if complaints continue I could see them going to a standard menu program like the rest of the fleet for all 4 venues, with each having a few "specials" each night to fit its theme and discontinue the rotational aspect of "classic" DD. whether the remaining DD seating (think MTD) has two or three turnovers is irrelevant as the spaces are currently serving fixed early/late seating AND open seating just like the rest of the fleet. Also even though the dining venues occupy a smaller total spatial volume than on other classes, not having the large open central area may mean there is an equal amount of dining floor space ratio per passenger to other ships in the fleet.

 

As far as decor goes I'd expect the Oasis/Allure to retain the changed decor until next due for drydock in 4-5 years. At that time they will decide whether to redo or leave as is. Same goes for Q-class.

 

Bean counters or not, RCCL hit a foul note w/ the core of its passenger base and appears to be rethinking the concept. Personally I love the idea as it basically gives 4 complimentary restaurants each with a distinctive cuisine type. I'm an open seating dining person and like a wide variety of foods so am in the perfect target market for DD. I'm actually sad to see it did not resonate well and will be relegated to a niche ship class, and possibly phased out in future. I'm obviously in the minority.

 

I responded to a poster who postulated that one reason RCI did not extend DD to Oasis was because the 'bean counters' didn't see any cost savings.

 

Actually, my analysis was based on 'butts in seats', not square footage. There was a poster several months ago who had an actual count of the dining space in each dining room on Quantum. This established that in order to feed all passengers, Quantum had to 'turn the tables' three times as opposed to only twice on the other ships. This means Quantum can devote less space to dining and more space to other revenue producing activities. For example, arbitrarily consider a ship of 3000 passengers. If you can 'turn the tables' 3 times, you only need seating for 1000 passengers at a time. If you only 'turn the tables' 2 times, you will need seating for 1500 passengers. IOW, you can reduce the size of the dining rooms by approximately one-third. Obviously, that's a big savings which could either result in lower ship building costs or increased revenues if devoted to appropriate activities.

 

The point is, Quantum class was designed around turning the tables three times and could realize these savings. Oasis was not and introducing DD to Oasis will not result in a reduction or reallocation of dining space. No cost savings.

 

Classic DD did not increase the number of seats on Quantum. You still have to 'turn the tables' three times to feed every one. The numbers indicate that the seating for Classic DD is limited to a number that would not seriously affect the 'turn the tables' number on Quantum.

 

You mentioned "core of its passenger base". Agreed. There was a very vocal percentage of old time cruisers who correctly saw that DD would eliminate traditional dining. Royal did a very poor job on the roll-out. The software supporting DD did not work properly resulting in long wait times for food service. This effect was compounded by the reduced size of the dining rooms and the need to 'turn tables'.

 

Another factor was DD was not designed to appeal to that "core". DD was designed to appeal to an entirely different demographic which does not consider having the same table, same wait staff, same table mates, two formal nights, and two hour dinners to be positive features. It will be back.

[Maraprince]

I responded to a poster who postulated that one reason RCI did not extend DD to Oasis was because the 'bean counters' didn't see any cost savings.

 

Actually, my analysis was based on 'butts in seats', not square footage. There was a poster several months ago who had an actual count of the dining space in each dining room on Quantum. This established that in order to feed all passengers, Quantum had to 'turn the tables' three times as opposed to only twice on the other ships. This means Quantum can devote less space to dining and more space to other revenue producing activities. For example, arbitrarily consider a ship of 3000 passengers. If you can 'turn the tables' 3 times, you only need seating for 1000 passengers at a time. If you only 'turn the tables' 2 times, you will need seating for 1500 passengers. IOW, you can reduce the size of the dining rooms by approximately one-third. Obviously, that's a big savings which could either result in lower ship building costs or increased revenues if devoted to appropriate activities.

 

The point is, Quantum class was designed around turning the tables three times and could realize these savings. Oasis was not and introducing DD to Oasis will not result in a reduction or reallocation of dining space. No cost savings.

 

Classic DD did not increase the number of seats on Quantum. You still have to 'turn the tables' three times to feed every one. The numbers indicate that the seating for Classic DD is limited to a number that would not seriously affect the 'turn the tables' number on Quantum.

 

You mentioned "core of its passenger base". Agreed. There was a very vocal percentage of old time cruisers who correctly saw that DD would eliminate traditional dining. Royal did a very poor job on the roll-out. The software supporting DD did not work properly resulting in long wait times for food service. This effect was compounded by the reduced size of the dining rooms and the need to 'turn tables'.

 

Another factor was DD was not designed to appeal to that "core". DD was designed to appeal to an entirely different demographic which does not consider having the same table, same wait staff, same table mates, two formal nights, and two hour dinners to be positive features. It will be back.

 

You might say that RCL's bean counters were "blinded by the light" and "excited" by the expected cost savings of having 2 vs. 3 dining seatings. They failed to take into account that an open seating/rotating basis works best on smaller ships -- i.e., luxury lines with no more that 600+ passengers. Instead, they decided to put the concept into effect on the larger/largest ships in the fleet.

 

They succeeded in alienating their "core" base of passengers in the hopes of attracting new/first time passengers while expanding their market to China. Add in hi-tech touches which came with loads of glitches still to be worked out.

 

In their desire to best the competition they overlooked the fact that Crystal Cruises was purchased by Ganting in Hong Kong and their plans for new ships, etc. The various Carnival brands -- Princess, HAL, etc. already were sailing to China, Asia and the Orient. RCL was scrambling for a new idea/concept to attract new passengers while neglecting the ones they had and being very outspoken about their motives.

 

They should have created a whole new cruise line with smaller sized ships that would have the DD concept, hi-tech gadgets and sailed exclusively around Asia as another option to the standard cruise/dining experience and charged a whole lot more money to sail on these ships.

 

MARAPRINCE

Edited July 19, 2015 by Maraprince

[Biker19]

You might say that RCL's bean counters were "blinded by the light" and "excited" by the expected cost savings of having 2 vs. 3 dining seatings. They failed to take into account that an open seating/rotating basis works best on smaller ships -- i.e., luxury lines with no more that 600+ passengers. Instead, they decided to put the concept into effect on the larger/largest ships in the fleet.

 

It works just fine on Quantum class ships which can carry 4500+ guests.:cool:

 

They succeeded in alienating their "core" base of passengers in the hopes of attracting new/first time passengers while expanding their market to China. Add in hi-tech touches which came with loads of glitches still to be worked out.

 

As far as I can tell bookigs are just fine and prices are up - not sure who's getting alienated.

 

In their desire to best the competition they overlooked the fact that Crystal Cruises was purchased by Ganting in Hong Kong and their plans for new ships, etc. The various Carnival brands -- Princess, HAL, etc. already were sailing to China, Asia and the Orient. RCL was scrambling for a new idea/concept to attract new passengers while neglecting the ones they had and being very outspoken about their motives.

 

The Quantum class was in the works and planned for the NA market - it was only recently that the pivot to Asia happened - and DD would have no affect on any of that.

 

They should have created a whole new cruise line with smaller sized ships that would have the DD concept, hi-tech gadgets and sailed exclusively around Asia as another option to the standard cruise/dining experience and charged a whole lot more money to sail on these ships.

It's called Azmara.:cool:

When seasoned cruisers opt for a more exlusive line, they don't check their dining prefences at the door - folks who prefer traditional dining would complain about DD whether it was on Oasis or a boutique 500 person ship.

[The Big Booper]

The only reason that Q was moved so soon in it's service life to China was the delay by Bermuda in widening the trench into the harbor where the big ships dock. I went to the DD reveal in NY during tax season 2014, squeezing it in to my busy season. There was NO mention of moving the ship to China at the time.

 

RCI might have the same problem if the trench is not fully dredged by May 2016, what to do with Anthem in the summer if Bermuda is not available.

[Maraprince]

Biker19;47177225]It works just fine on Quantum class ships which can carry 4500+ guests.:cool:

[/color]

Unless you are one of the unfortunate guest whose reservations were lost somewhere in the computer system.

As far as I can tell bookigs are just fine and prices are up - not sure who's getting alienated.

Unless you chose not to read any negative comments by posters at the Diamond level and above who tried and were not happy with DD to the point of not going back to RCCL enough complaints were received to move RCCL to create the DD Classic option in an effort to stem the exodus. It's as close as an insult as you can get when the head of RCCL tell everyone that DD was designed for the first time new cruisers who are looking for something other than a regular cruise experience.

 

The Quantum class was in the works and planned for the NA market - it was only recently that the pivot to Asia happened - and DD would have no affect on any of that.

 

But, it chose to move Q to Asia when it could have moved one of the other larger ships and kept Q here with different ports of call. RCCL knew that with the dining preference of the Asian market to eat with friends/family and not strangers that DD would not work. Yet the NA market became the test ground for both DD and new high tech "upgrades" that had loads of gliches.

 

 

It's called Azmara.:cool:

When seasoned cruisers opt for a more exlusive line, they don't check their dining prefences at the door - folks who prefer traditional dining would complain about DD whether it was on Oasis or a boutique 500 person ship.

 

Azmara passenger count is nowhere near that of the Oasis, Q, etc. So if RCCL wanted to create a high-tech ship with DD to be based in Asia, it could have just as easily created another new cruise line appealing to the first time cruiser market segment.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

Edited July 20, 2015 by Maraprince

[John&LaLa]

What exactly is the "core" anyway. On Freedom last month the first timers and gold members totalled over 3000 and D and above were around 200. I know, "upper tier don't cruise in summer" but that is peak pricing. Those TA's that the "core" flock to just churn dollars so they can make money when they arrive at their destination

 

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[RocketMan275]

What exactly is the "core" anyway. On Freedom last month the first timers and gold members totalled over 3000 and D and above were around 200. I know, "upper tier don't cruise in summer" but that is peak pricing. Those TA's that the "core" flock to just churn dollars so they can make money when they arrive at their destination

 

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Good point. Are you talking about today's 'core' or tomorrow's 'core'? Contrary to opinions expressed on this website, cruise critic members are not the life blood of cruising. Many of today's 'core' consider themselves to be experts on cruising and were deeply offended that RCI did not consult them before rolling out DD.

 

JMO, but the intent was to appeal to a new cruising demographic. That demographic is turned off by traditional dining. They don't want to spend 2.5 hours every night establishing a relationship with their waitstaff. Nor do they find the idea of dining at the same table with complete strangers attractive. BTW, they're not all that into formal nights either. IOW, every thing the old timers like about traditional dining is a drawback to a lot of potential new customers. As I said, JMO.

[The Big Booper]

Which is why NCL invented "Freestyle", Princess rolled out ATD in 2001 and all the others introduced their own variations of ATD, such as MTD, Select, etc. in or around 2008-2010.

Edited July 21, 2015 by The Big Booper

[1ParticularHbr]

I'm sad too. We booked Oasis for May 2015 to try Dynamic Dining and it got delayed. We cruised anyway (of course) but booked Harmony for Feb 2017 hoping to finally try it. Sigh.....guess we're out of luck again.

[John&LaLa]

Good point. Are you talking about today's 'core' or tomorrow's 'core'? Contrary to opinions expressed on this website, cruise critic members are not the life blood of cruising. Many of today's 'core' consider themselves to be experts on cruising and were deeply offended that RCI did not consult them before rolling out DD.

 

JMO, but the intent was to appeal to a new cruising demographic. That demographic is turned off by traditional dining. They don't want to spend 2.5 hours every night establishing a relationship with their waitstaff. Nor do they find the idea of dining at the same table with complete strangers attractive. BTW, they're not all that into formal nights either. IOW, every thing the old timers like about traditional dining is a drawback to a lot of potential new customers. As I said, JMO.

I like the cut of your jib. However, I do still enjoy formal night because it makes Laura happy. Besides, I look good in a tux. That's why DD would have worked for both of us.

 

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