Empress Returning to RCCL?

[John&LaLa]

I've got my fingers crossed that you're right John! I'm digging the possibly of another small ship in the fleet. No bells, whistles or gimmicks needed.

 

I recall the freedom class exists because they realized after enchantment that it was cheaper to stretch blueprints than actual ships. That being said, I really think they improved enchantment by stretching her.

[DarthGrady]

I recall the freedom class exists because they realized after enchantment that it was cheaper to stretch blueprints than actual ships. That being said, I really think they improved enchantment by stretching her.

I agree with you on EN, good mods done there. An extra pool, and more bars! That's the good stuff.

 

I'd just hate to see them take a nice, simple ship like that and try to somehow Oasis-ize it with a bunch of silly gimmicks. It'd be as bad as adding a water slide to a Sovereign Class ship.......oh wait.....

Edited October 23, 2015 by DarthGrady

[Clarea]

I recall the freedom class exists because they realized after enchantment that it was cheaper to stretch blueprints than actual ships. That being said, I really think they improved enchantment by stretching her.

Mixed feelings about the EN stretch. Love Boleros and the extra space on the pool deck. Don't like the more crowded Windjammer and Main Theater.

[Pumbaamd]

rumor has been that RCI are eyeing a joint venture for new builds for China. It is unclear how this weeks Carnival China news will influence that. QUOTE]

There is a bubble in China. The Chinese are not releasing realistic financial info. They say all is fine, when others report their economy is on the decline. Please RCCL, don't put anymore eggs in the Chinese basket.

R&D

[Scrapnana]

I like smaller ships but 2000 pax on a 48,000GT ship sounds way too crowded.

[Pumbaamd]

Now, forgetting about China, we've sailed on Empress 3 times. We enjoyed her as much as we did Oasis and Allure. We also love MJ and EN. Size does not matter. It was really great when we docked in Hamilton and St. George on Empress. Would love to do that again!!!

Rick and Deirdra

[Pumbaamd]

I like smaller ships but 2000 pax on a 48,000GT ship sounds way too crowded.

Three times on Empress, never felt crowded.

R&D

[John&LaLa]

Mixed feelings about the EN stretch. Love Boleros and the extra space on the pool deck. Don't like the more crowded Windjammer and Main Theater.

 

I knew that would come up. ;)

FWIW, we've done her 5 times and I can't recall ever feeling crowded. But I don't go there on day 1, usually eat breakfast early, and do grab and go for lunch.

[MADflyer]

Mixed feelings about the EN stretch. Love Boleros and the extra space on the pool deck. Don't like the more crowded Windjammer and Main Theater.

 

I think what MSC just did with their four Lirica Class ships was influenced by EN. There they enhanced the buffet and dining room with the Renaisance expansion of the ships.

[Clarea]

I think what MSC just did with their four Lirica Class ships was influenced by EN. There they enhanced the buffet and dining room with the Renaisance expansion of the ships.

That makes sense to expand the public areas when staterooms are added. I wish Royal would do that with the Voyager/Freedom class changes.

[eroller]

I have recently met and have spoken directly to someone (so this is heresay, not 1st hand knowledge from me directly!) who is presumably in direct dealings with Cuba on various business and investment activity. I asked him specifically about travel and even more specifically about cruising... he said no doubt within 12 months there'll be USA cruise ships there. Take that for what it's worth... maybe I can look back on this post in a year and say "You heard it here first from me" :eek::D Note... new RCL deployment will be next spring for 2017/18.

 

Btw it's just not travel/cruising, various large US corporations also... the flood gates may be opening up very quickly from what I've been told. I guess we'll all see soon.

 

So... Enchantment for 7 day Cuba itinerary out of Miami??

I'm in!!!!!!! :D

(Empress takes over 3/4 day Bahamas??)

 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head, except I think it will be EMPRESS doing the Cuba cruises as she is just the right size to fit in all the ports. This could give Royal Caribbean something to go head to head with Carnival's new Fathom brand even if Royal doesn't create a new brand.

 

This makes sense as Pullmantur is a hard sell right now. Bookings are soft as the Spanish and some South American economies continue to struggle. Royal Caribbean is moving assets where they have the best earnings potential. China and Cuba are the hot tickets right now. EMPRESS would not work in China as they expect the biggest and best, but for Cuba she is probably prefect. Give her an extensive refurbishment and she is good to go.

 

There is also another possibility. Hyundai Marine is looking to enter the cruise market and they are reportedly in the process of acquiring a 72,000 gt ship. This could easily be MAJESTY OF THE SEAS, and if so EMPRESS might be a replacement for her. EMPRESS has about the same amount of balconies but capacity is lower, although she was built specifically for the short cruise market. This is purely speculation but then again everything regarding EMPRESS is right now. Just pointing out another possibility.

[jmf123]

I think she would be a great ship to reopen the LA or San Diego market. Carnival and Princess both took shots in the dark, increasing capacity in the past 2 years, and they're showing successful. While they may need to sell rooms for a very low price during off season, these ships hold 2050 people. Empress could easily load up 1800 on a 5 night to Cabo on Sunday, return Friday, and a 2 night to Ensenada on Friday, return Sunday. Or a 4 night to Santa Barbara, Catalina and Ensenada, and a 3 night to Ensenada with sea day. And, occasionally, maybe a 7 night down to PV and Cabo. But from LA, this looks like a good ship to reopen the market from.

 

I know that I am not alone in saying that I would love to see her come to the West Coast. Definitely not going to hold my breath, but regular three/four night sailings, with some seven night coastals (north and south bound) would be wonderful. Princess is winning over many RCI cruisers since RCI left the west.

[dorisis]

With an upgrade to Premium she would fit well with Azamara.

[mjsshipboy]

With some of the smallest cabins at sea at few balconies, there is no way that she would ever work at Azamara...

[Saab4444]

With some of the smallest cabins at sea at few balconies, there is no way that she would ever work at Azamara...

 

 

That is absolutely correct. All cabins beside suits are too small to make her an upscale ship Azamara needs. Cabins have similar size to Majesty.

[SaintL]

I'd like to make some comments:

 

1. I don't believe one second any of these so called empress lovers are dying to get on this ship. It's simply not a competitive North American ship.

 

2. I doubt the ship will come back under the royal brand, it will either be a new brand for something specific or be sold off.

 

3. What does "specifically built for 3/4 day market " mean? That's being thrown around a lot from people that read on Wikipedia but I doubt anyone has an actual answer.

 

4. This ship cannot compete anymore in the 3/4 day bahama market, the 3/4 day are market is now a market for ships "specifically built"for the 7 day market lol.

[DarthGrady]

I'd like to make some comments:

 

1. I don't believe one second any of these so called empress lovers are dying to get on this ship. It's simply not a competitive North American ship.

 

2. I doubt the ship will come back under the royal brand, it will either be a new brand for something specific or be sold off.

 

3. What does "specifically built for 3/4 day market " mean? That's being thrown around a lot from people that read on Wikipedia but I doubt anyone has an actual answer.

 

4. This ship cannot compete anymore in the 3/4 day bahama market, the 3/4 day are market is now a market for ships "specifically built"for the 7 day market lol.

I can't say I'm an Empress lover, as I never got to cruise on her before she was sold off. But I would jump at the chance to. She'd be a new ship for me, and I always love exploring a new ship. Other than the novelty, I'm firmly in the "bigger and newer is NOT better" camp. So she'd be high on my list if she were sailing from Florida.

 

I like your comment on the 3/4 ships, very true. What's now an old short-cruise tugboat was once the pride of the fleet. So it goes. Old tonnage out, new tonnage in. And now, possibly, old tonnage back in.

[eroller]

I

 

3. What does "specifically built for 3/4 day market " mean? That's being thrown around a lot from people that read on Wikipedia but I doubt anyone has an actual answer.

 

4. This ship cannot compete anymore in the 3/4 day bahama market, the 3/4 day are market is now a market for ships "specifically built"for the 7 day market lol.

 

 

It has nothing to do with Wikipedia but apparently that is where you're getting your information from.

 

Those of us who were around in the late 80's and following the cruise industry remember Admiral cruises and their new "Future Seas". This ship was touted as the first ever specifically designed for the short 3 to 4 day cruise market. If I am recalling correctly, there were attributes such as a smaller pool area because the ship would be docked most of the time and people would be ashore. Smaller cabins with less storage space because people would not be staying in them for extended periods. Most importantly engines that were designed and optimized to be run at lower speeds since the Florida to Bahamas run would rarely require higher speeds, and the ship would be sitting idle in port most of the time. I'm going strictly by memory, but if you wanted more details you might try to obtain a back issues of Cruise Industry News Quarterly which I subscribed to since its inception and still do. That is where a lot of technical information can be found. Unfortunately I don't keep back issues.

 

Of course Royal Caribbean would go on to buy Admiral and the FUTURE SEAS would be renamed before the ship was delivered. Royal would stay true to her design and place her in the short cruise market. Carnival then placed their brand new FANTASY in the same market, competing head to head. At the time it was quite unusual to have two brand new ships dedicated to the short cruise market.

 

In réponse to your point #4, the short cruise market is already filled with ships of the EMPRESS' vintage and they do quite well. MAJESTY OF THE SEAS is still going strong, and Carnival has 8 Fantasy Class ships still operating mostly in the 3, 4, and 5 day cruise market. I'll point out the Fantasy Class has even fewer balconies than EMPRESS and are just as dated as EMPRESS if not more so. The later builds of the Fantasy Class were outdated before they were even completed as the balcony craze had already taken hold.

 

So I feel EMPRESS could easily return to Royal Caribbean, but I'm guessing she will have a new purpose and that is Cuba. She is the perfect size to fit in the mostly undeveloped ports of Cuba and no, right now you won't see any Oasis sized ships visiting Cuba. That will take some time to build up the infrastructure. In the meantime we will see smaller ships like EMPRESS on the run, and it will be nice to see some get a second life so to speak.

 

It's also possible Royal might have something else completely in mind for EMPRESS. None of us know for sure. Just fun speculating at this point.

Edited October 23, 2015 by eroller

[eroller]

I'll add I was hoping to find the inaugural brochure for FUTURE SEAS but it must be in storage. I have a pretty extensive brochure collection and save all inaugural brochures. I do have the first brochure Royal Caribbean produced for NORDIC EMPRESS. I'll have to dig it out and have a look. It might have more specifics about her being purpose built for the short cruise market.

 

[LovesCruising]

She was one of our favorite ships as well

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

In réponse to your point #4, the short cruise market is already filled with ships of the EMPRESS' vintage and they do quite well. MAJESTY OF THE SEAS is still going strong, and Carnival has 8 Fantasy Class ships still operating mostly in the 3, 4, and 5 day cruise market. I'll point out the Fantasy Class has even fewer balconies than EMPRESS and are just as dated as EMPRESS if not more so. The later builds of the Fantasy Class were outdated before they were even completed as the balcony craze had already taken hold.

 

So I feel EMPRESS could easily return to Royal Caribbean, but I'm guessing she will have a new purpose and that is Cuba. She is the perfect size to fit in the mostly undeveloped ports of Cuba and no, right now you won't see any Oasis sized ships visiting Cuba. That will take some time to build up the infrastructure. In the meantime we will see smaller ships like EMPRESS on the run, and it will be nice to see some get a second life so to speak.

 

It's also possible Royal might have something else completely in mind for EMPRESS. None of us know for sure. Just fun speculating at this point.

 

All good info. I'm in agreement with your Cuba comment. That seems like the only realistic option for the Empress, if she really is returning to the RCI fleet. I think that any cruise offered on the Empress will have to be more about the ports than the ship (obviously). They could also be planning on some sort of extended/world voyages, but I find Cuba to be more likely. It will be very interesting to see what is actually going to happen.

 

With that said, I think the only way any of those things would work is if Empress gets completely overhauled. Rooms would need to be gutted and redone, and public areas would have to be refreshed. The pool deck would need to be redone, and they would need to find a place to add a specialty restaurant or two.

 

Would an extensive overhaul like that be worth it to RCI? I guess it depends on how much they want to sail to Cuba, and how quickly they want to do it.

Edited October 23, 2015 by OfTheSeasCruiser

[eroller]

 

Would an extensive overhaul like that be worth it to RCI? I guess it depends on how much they want to sail to Cuba, and how quickly they want to do it.

 

 

 

I'm guessing they have little choice honestly. She can stay with Pullmantur and continue to lose money, or an investment can be made in her future that will hopefully pay off.

 

Unfortunately there is not much of a market for this type of second hand tonnage. It used to be that cruise lines could send these ships to second tier brands like Pulmantur and emerging markets like China and Australia. That is becoming less and less of an option as these markets quickly mature and demand newer ships. Carnival actually shut down its Spanish brand Ibero Cruceros which probably gave Pullmantur a little more life, but they are still struggling.

 

So the alternative is to refit the ships to make them more appealing and competitive. We are seeing more and more of that. Carnival has had a much bigger dilemma with the Fantasy Class. They really had no where to send them to, so they implemented a pretty extensive refurbishment program. They are still dated ships with few balconies, but at least they can hold their own in less competitive markets out of "homeports" like New Orleans, Mobile, Jacksonville, and Charleston. There are even some in Miami still, just like the good ole MAJESTY OF THE SEAS. In fact MAJESTY is a good example. She is the same vintage as EMPRESS and normally at this stage in her career would be sent off to a second tier brand like Pullmantur or an emerging market. This really isn't an option anymore so RCI is breathing new life into her with an extensive refit adding slides and other amenities that consumers expect these days.

 

Cuba will be an emerging market and initially will require smaller ships. The major cruise lines don't build smaller ships, so perhaps these dated and smaller ships will be just the ticket to build up the market.

Edited October 23, 2015 by eroller

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

.

 

Cuba will be an emerging market and initially will require smaller ships. The major cruise lines don't build smaller ships, so perhaps these dated and smaller ships will be just the ticket to build up the market.

 

That's what I'm thinking. IMO, its going to be pretty long time before any mega-ships will be able to call at Cuba. Empress might be the answer for Royal!

[eroller]

That's what I'm thinking. IMO, its going to be pretty long time before any mega-ships will be able to call at Cuba. Empress might be the answer for Royal!

 

 

Now that the cat is out of the bag so to speak, and all reports suggest the transfer will take place in early 2016, I would expect to hear official news from Royal Caribbean relatively soon.

[Canadian Tyler]

Confirmed, Spring 2016 to Royal Caribbean with extensive refurbishment.

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by Canadian Tyler