Email about Legionnaires

[bouhunter]

I know it's frightening but u have more of a chance of contracting noro virus than legionnaires

 

Seriously????:rolleyes: There is NO analogy to be made here. Legionnaires has a DEATH RATE of 5-15%. Noro is almost zero.......

[ddawson711]

It's all about $$$$. When would I hear if the cruise is cancelled.

[sr4mjc]

It's all about $$$$. When would I hear if the cruise is cancelled.

 

The cruise won't be cancelled. You may have the option to cancel if you wish to do so. Call and see what your options are.

Edited November 14, 2015 by sr4mjc

[Debde]

I know it's frightening but u have more of a chance of contracting noro virus than legionnaires

 

No offense-but this is why I posted the link and recommended the OP speaks to her Dr. for his or her professional opinion on this. Big difference between Noro and legionnaires!!

[brillohead]

Not including crew, we're talking about ~35,000 people who have traveled on Majesty since July, and TWO people have gotten sick. (If you consider that there are almost 1,000 crew on board every week, that brings the exposure equivalent up closer to 50,000 people with only 2-3 illnesses.)

 

There is nothing to prove that the illness was acquired on the ship itself.

 

Honestly, given the small numbers of patients and the HUGE number of potential exposures, I'd be very surprised if the ship is actually the source of the contagion in these cases.

 

More likely would be contamination at one of the "resort for a day" places in one of the ports (or a hotel from a pre/post cruise overnight stay). That would explain why there aren't larger numbers of reported illness -- not everyone from every cruise goes to the same port destination.

[123funcruiser]

Not including crew, we're talking about ~35,000 people who have traveled on Majesty since July, and TWO people have gotten sick. (If you consider that there are almost 1,000 crew on board every week, that brings the exposure equivalent up closer to 50,000 people with only 2-3 illnesses.)

 

There is nothing to prove that the illness was acquired on the ship itself.

 

Honestly, given the small numbers of patients and the HUGE number of potential exposures, I'd be very surprised if the ship is actually the source of the contagion in these cases.

 

More likely would be contamination at one of the "resort for a day" places in one of the ports (or a hotel from a pre/post cruise overnight stay). That would explain why there aren't larger numbers of reported illness -- not everyone from every cruise goes to the same port destination.

 

Sorry but your calculations are not quite right.

 

If it´s 35000 Pax sonce July and app. 1000 crew it does not bring the number to 50000 People, but only to 36000 People. I´ll give you a few extra for crew Rotation, so maybe 37000.

 

While the crew is exposed longer than a passenger it does not increase the number of People exposed;)

[123funcruiser]

It's all about $$$$. When would I hear if the cruise is cancelled.

 

Newsflash, RCI is a for Profit Company. Of Course it´s all about the $. What else should it be about?

 

It´s highly unlikely and doubtful the cruise will be cancelled.

[chengkp75]

Not including crew, we're talking about ~35,000 people who have traveled on Majesty since July, and TWO people have gotten sick. (If you consider that there are almost 1,000 crew on board every week, that brings the exposure equivalent up closer to 50,000 people with only 2-3 illnesses.)

 

There is nothing to prove that the illness was acquired on the ship itself.

 

Honestly, given the small numbers of patients and the HUGE number of potential exposures, I'd be very surprised if the ship is actually the source of the contagion in these cases.

 

More likely would be contamination at one of the "resort for a day" places in one of the ports (or a hotel from a pre/post cruise overnight stay). That would explain why there aren't larger numbers of reported illness -- not everyone from every cruise goes to the same port destination.

 

Actually, RCI has admitted in their e-mail that the source had been isolated to the showers. The ship routinely samples the water from random sources around the ship (sinks, showers, galleys) and tests them onboard for bacteria. This is a USPH requirement. Either a past passenger came down with the disease and CDC traced it back to the ship, or the ship's testing showed it, regardless, it has been traced to the ship, and showers in particular. That is a known fact.

 

However, you are correct in the odds of getting ill. And it is not known if the two cases were before remediation started or not.

 

The only guidance I will give is that the USPH/CDC is monitoring the situation, and if they felt there was risk to the public, they would not allow the ship to board passengers. That would not be RCI's call, but USPH.

 

And for the record, the last documented outbreak of legionella on a cruise ship was 1994, according to the USPH VSP web page.

[Lionesss]

Thanks to CC at least others can be made aware of a health concern such as this.

 

What scares me is when we sail, the not knowing of any illnesses on board, and risks.

 

I will still sail though.

 

Safe travels

[brillohead]

Sorry but your calculations are not quite right.

 

If it´s 35000 Pax sonce July and app. 1000 crew it does not bring the number to 50000 People, but only to 36000 People. I´ll give you a few extra for crew Rotation, so maybe 37000.

 

While the crew is exposed longer than a passenger it does not increase the number of People exposed;)

 

I specifically mentioned "exposure equivalent" as opposed to actual individual people.

 

The crew were on the ship every single week, in addition to the roughly 35,000 passengers over the entire timespan, so there were that many opportunities for exposure.

Edited November 14, 2015 by brillohead

[chengkp75]

I specifically mentioned "exposure equivalent" as opposed to actual individual people.

 

The crew were on the ship every single week, as were the roughly 35,000 passengers, so there were that many opportunities for exposure.

 

I want to amend my previous post about yours. RCI did say that they cannot determine if the two cases came from the ship, as you stated, but that there was legionella found in the ship's system. Without knowing the CDC's research into the two cases and their travel history, we cannot know for certain where the disease was from.

[brillohead]

Actually, RCI has admitted in their e-mail that the source had been isolated to the showers. The ship routinely samples the water from random sources around the ship (sinks, showers, galleys) and tests them onboard for bacteria. This is a USPH requirement. Either a past passenger came down with the disease and CDC traced it back to the ship, or the ship's testing showed it, regardless, it has been traced to the ship, and showers in particular. That is a known fact.

 

Actually, I was going off this statement in the email that was posted:

 

"It is not known whether the ship’s shower water was the source of the bacteria that caused the infections and our investigation is ongoing."

 

Unless they have the results back on the DNA of the bacteria from the two known infections and the DNA of the bacteria found in some of the shower heads, there is no proof tying these two infections to the ship itself. That was how I interpreted the "our investigation is ongoing" statement -- that the DNA testing (by the CDC) has not been concluded.

 

It's obviously possible to be exposed to Legionella and not contract the infection -- otherwise, many, many more infections would have been reported before now. Just because the bacteria was found on the ship, that doesn't mean that these particular infections were from this particular source... the only way to know that for sure is through DNA comparison between all strains involved.

 

It may very well end up being that these two people did, in fact, contract their infection from a source on the ship. However, there is not yet a proven connection between the two patients and the ship.

[brillohead]

I want to amend my previous post about yours. RCI did say that they cannot determine if the two cases came from the ship, as you stated, but that there was legionella found in the ship's system. Without knowing the CDC's research into the two cases and their travel history, we cannot know for certain where the disease was from.

 

Looks like we were posting at the same time -- that is exactly the point I was making. Thank you.

[Ablitz]

Newsflash, RCI is a for Profit Company. Of Course it´s all about the $. What else should it be about?

 

It´s highly unlikely and doubtful the cruise will be cancelled.

 

 

 

What about the people they knowingly sent on a contaminated ship? I wouldn't trust a company that did that. health is where I draw the line. This is very messed up. Negligent and almost criminal if u ask me. They have a responsibly to let me and my family know pre boarding. I'll never take another cruise again.

[steamboats]

Don´t panic! You will find Legionella in almost every water system. Over here in Germany all HOA have to test their water every three years since a couple of years. So three years ago we had Legionella and had to clean our tubes. Last test this year showed Legionella. We had to turn on our hot water for 5 min. Second test showed them again. Now we have to turn on the hot water (which is now heated up to 70°C instead of the regular 55°C) on all faucets for 5 min each day for a whole week.

 

I´m pretty sure that we had Legionella for years - but then it wasn´t tested yet. In most of your homes you will get a positive test too (if you´d test).

 

Noone fell sick over the last few years. It´s also a question of how much they do find. We are alway below the critical number with no real risk of getting sick. In case we´d be over that critical number the local health authorities would shut down our hot water supply and order a stricter cleaning procedure.

 

steamboats

[brillohead]

Don´t panic! You will find Legionella in almost every water system.

 

But it's so much more fun to panic over something that sounds scary, instead of actually doing the research to figure out how dangerous a situation really is!!! :D

[Debde]

Absolutely correct. No need to panic. What is needed is for people sailing the ship to educate themselves and decide what is best for them. I'm not quite so sure I'd take the attitude to go on the cruise and have a great time. Some options need to be weighed here.

 

Being from the NYC area-this has been in the news earlier this year.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/06/legionnaires-death-toll-eight/31200561/

Edited November 14, 2015 by Debde

[bwest the man]

Legionella is very hard to spread as it is not transmitted person to person. That being said it is also hard to become clinically infected and show signs of the disease due to the critical number to be infected. If you are diagnosed with legionnaires disease treatment options are very good and should work with little to no complications.

 

If it were me I would sail without second thoughts.

[Stags14]

There's always a chance of getting sick, or injured.

[Ablitz]

There's always a chance of getting sick, or injured.

 

You must all be very experienced cruise goers. I can't believe RCI would put me and my family on a boat when they were already testing for this and knew there were cases and not inform us. Guess it's just me. Im shocked that you all don't see this as a major issue. Sailed 9-13th and they knew in October.

[Debde]

Also-keep in mind-this was from Royal themselves " This testing confirmed that bacteria are present in samples taken from the water used for showering. It is not known whether the ship’s shower water was the source of the bacteria that caused the infections and our investigation is ongoing".

 

So this means it was in the ships system and not just someone came on board sick.

I agree-maybe all actions have been taken to ensure passenger safety and all is good to go. I just have not seen them say that yet!!

[brillohead]

You must all be very experienced cruise goers. I can't believe RCI would put me and my family on a boat when they were already testing for this and knew there were cases and not inform us. Guess it's just me. Im shocked that you all don't see this as a major issue. Sailed 9-13th and they knew in October.

 

No, you just have reading comprehension deficits.

 

THERE IS NO CONFIRMATION THAT THE PEOPLE THAT GOT SICK CONTRACTED THEIR INFECTION ABOARD AN RCI VESSEL!

 

There are viruses and bacteria and fungi and parasites everywhere in the world. You can either live in a bubble, or you can accept the fact that there is some risk in living in the real world.

 

As someone already posted, there were several cases of Legionnaire's in NYC this summer -- does that mean you'll NEVER visit NYC? :rolleyes:

[Debde]

 

THERE IS NO CONFIRMATION THAT THE PEOPLE THAT GOT SICK CONTRACTED THEIR INFECTION ABOARD AN RCI VESSEL!

 

 

But it was found in the water samples on that ship. You don't find this at least something to take into consideration.:confused:

 

Yes, we had many cases here in NYC and no-not any reason to not come here but I would stay away from the buildings that tested positive for it!!:eek:

[Ablitz]

But it was found in the water samples on that ship. You don't find this at least something to take into consideration.:confused:

 

Yes, we had many cases here in NYC and no-not any reason to not come here but I would stay away from the buildings that tested positive for it!!:eek:

 

Exactly!! It was found in the water from the showers clearly after the ship returned yesterday or no email would have been sent out. They knew before they sailed that there was a potential issue. And to answer the above question if If I knew that there potential issues in a place that I was about to visit I would have considered my options. Very different between visiting New York and being isolated on a ship where all the water was potentially at risk.

[chengkp75]

Exactly!! It was found in the water from the showers clearly after the ship returned yesterday or no email would have been sent out. They knew before they sailed that there was a potential issue. And to answer the above question if If I knew that there potential issues in a place that I was about to visit I would have considered my options. Very different between visiting New York and being isolated on a ship where all the water was potentially at risk.

 

You are not understanding the transmission vector of legionella correctly. It is not in the water supply, nor is it in the water that continually circulates around the ship, constantly having chlorine dosed to it to maintain a residual level.

 

The bacteria was found in shower heads. As I've stated before, that is where it breeds. And as steamboats mentioned, when it is found in shower heads, it is generally cleared by running the shower for a few minutes prior to getting into it. The water in the shower is "one way", particularly on cruise ships, where each shower is equipped with a backflow preventer, to keep any water or possible bacteria that is in the shower head from flowing back and possibly contaminating the whole system. Trust me, no residential shower is equipped with a backflow preventer.

 

There was no bacteria found, in the water supply, so any water from a sink, ice maker, or drink dispenser would not be contaminated, or make you ill.

 

The legionella in NYC is in the central heating/air conditioning system, where it breeds in the water in the cooling towers, and then is in the air supply.