Indoor mustering on the Konigsdam

[frankc98376]

Just my personal point of view as a passenger, but the closer the drill comes to the real thing (meaning at your lifeboat) the more effective the drill can (didn't say will) be. I clearly remember drills in the years immediately following the sinking of the first Prinsendam that they often actually lowered a lifeboat or two to the rail so folks could even better appreciate what would happen were an evacuation required. I understand why it's no longer done but it was very effective in preparing you for the event should it happen.

 

I remember the drills in the early 80's on HAL when boats were lowered. Problem with mustering at the boats is what happens if 1, 2, or 3 boats are inaccessible? Most likely panic, confusion, and chaos. With indoor muster people are sent out in controlled groups to boats that are ready and waiting. Key cards could be scanned at the doors of the venue and no one exits once inside until the drill or emergency is over.

 

I have stood outside in both wet and cold weather and blazing hot weather for over an hour waiting for the last few stragglers to show up- I'd much rather be inside. In the event of an actual emergency people are contained in inside areas waiting on the event an evacuation is deemed necessary and not standing outside in the elements.

 

I've been standing outside for HAL drills since 1981 and am one that welcomes the change. I'm hoping that it carries over to the Vista and Signature ships.

[Lizzie68]

I remember the drills in the early 80's on HAL when boats were lowered. Problem with mustering at the boats is what happens if 1, 2, or 3 boats are inaccessible? Most likely panic, confusion, and chaos. With indoor muster people are sent out in controlled groups to boats that are ready and waiting. Key cards could be scanned at the doors of the venue and no one exits once inside until the drill or emergency is over.

 

I have stood outside in both wet and cold weather and blazing hot weather for over an hour waiting for the last few stragglers to show up- I'd much rather be inside. In the event of an actual emergency people are contained in inside areas waiting on the event an evacuation is deemed necessary and not standing outside in the elements.

 

I've been standing outside for HAL drills since 1981 and am one that welcomes the change. I'm hoping that it carries over to the Vista and Signature ships.

 

Just as I was thinking I would prefer mustering somewhere away from the boats to avoid a rush and panic, you posted this, Frank. I entirely agree. A controlled evacuation would be much more successful than everyone trying to get to the lifeboat station and a stampede ensuing.

[Bill S]

We take muster drills seriously as we had a serious emergency (a real fire that caused the ship to lose all power & smoke in the passageways, etc.) on a HAL ship when evacuating the ship seemed like a possibility.

 

We sailed on Celebrity a few years ago and the muster drill was indoors. The ship was the Millie. There was not enough indoor room big enough to hold all the passengers. We were herded into a large lobby area with several hundred other passengers. It was a joke! The person who was giving the briefing and other crew members were joking around and most passengers were talking and laughing. This was not taken as a serious matter. So, I do worry that a similar thing might happen, at least in the passenger ranks, in an indoor venue. Hopefully, ours was an isolated experience.

 

I hope those who have done indoor muster drills indoors will post about the demeanor of the crew and the passengers during the briefing.

[OTOW guy]

and they called for a muster late at night. It seems that a drunk passenger let the anchor fall and rather than looking at the videos of that area the captain decided to make every passenger stand at their muster stations while he gave a lecture on the stupidity of one passenger that they already had determined had done it. Great idea for an outdoor muster.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

We take muster drills seriously as we had a serious emergency (a real fire that caused the ship to lose all power & smoke in the passageways, etc.) on a HAL ship when evacuating the ship seemed like a possibility.

 

We sailed on Celebrity a few years ago and the muster drill was indoors. The ship was the Millie. There was not enough indoor room big enough to hold all the passengers. We were herded into a large lobby area with several hundred other passengers. It was a joke! The person who was giving the briefing and other crew members were joking around and most passengers were talking and laughing. This was not taken as a serious matter. So, I do worry that a similar thing might happen, at least in the passenger ranks, in an indoor venue. Hopefully, ours was an isolated experience.

 

I hope those who have done indoor muster drills indoors will post about the demeanor of the crew and the passengers during the briefing.

 

Bill, I agree our Indoor Muster Drill on the Solstice was also a joke, we were in Michael's, crowded hot standing only and could not hear the person giving instructions. I have been on numerous Indoor Must Drills for NCL and they are extremely organized, not crowded, totally easy to understand. They even tell people that if they speak another language they send them to another section as well as though who are deaf they also have special instructions for them. They are by far the most organized and informative of the cruise lines we have sailed. The Crew know what they are doing. With all of it handled in doors. I never dread going to Life Boat Drills with NCL like I do with HAL.

[sppunk]

Koningsdam will be using a card scanner to account for all guests thankfully, no more screaming out room numbers.

 

Princess' indoor mustering is very professional, serious and still quick. My worst muster experience was on the Rotterdam two years ago, they gave up halfway through and no cabin number was called. It was during Rotterdam's Port Fair and helicopters and boats were going crazy and you couldn't hear anything.

[3rdGenCunarder]

As long as I've been sailing with Cunard, the muster drill has been indoors. On QM2, we've always mustered in the Lido. On QE2, we sometimes were in a restaurant, sometimes a lounge, deepending on where our cabin was. Because it's indoors and most people are seated, people are pretty relaxed, and they chat while they wait for things to begin. But once the announcement starts, everyone pays attention. Crew are serious, and not huddled together talking or laughing. Even with all their repeat passengers who know the deal. they take it seriously. It was like this well before Concordia.

 

We haven't sailed Royal Carib in about 10 years, but I remember mustering on deck with VERY serious people in charge. The young lady from the CD's staff barked orders about standing in line, short people up front, etc. You'd never know she was a graduate of Ringling's Clown College (she really was!), she was all business.

 

But on some cruises, again 10 or more years ago, I can recall passengers carrying drinks, talking and laughing, taking pictures during the drill. I think ship's photogs used to take pictures during the drill. Can't remember which ship(s) I saw this on.

[frankc98376]

and they called for a muster late at night. It seems that a drunk passenger let the anchor fall and rather than looking at the videos of that area the captain decided to make every passenger stand at their muster stations while he gave a lecture on the stupidity of one passenger that they already had determined had done it. Great idea for an outdoor muster.

 

A drunk passenger dropped an anchor??? I would hope that doing something like that would land them in the nearest jail. Dropping an anchor is not a trivial thing.

[InTheWASide]

A drunk passenger dropped an anchor??? I would hope that doing something like that would land them in the nearest jail. Dropping an anchor is not a trivial thing.

 

 

I don't remember exactly how it wound up but there were definitely consequences. I remember that much.

 

Different topic: Alberts blog today shows a couple images of the World Stage and how they'll be doing an indoor drill

[Lovely other]

No matter where the muster is we will still end up sitting/standing around waiting for the minority who think they're too good to join the rest of us ..:rolleyes:

[jtl513]

A drunk passenger dropped an anchor??? I would hope that doing something like that would land them in the nearest jail. Dropping an anchor is not a trivial thing.

HERE IS a thread about the incident, but before he was sentenced.

 

Eventually he spent four months in jail, paid a $7,500 fine and was ordered to take substance abuse and mental health counseling!! Much too light a punishment IMO.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111673/Rick-Ehlert-jailed-months-drunkenly-dropping-MS-Ryndams-anchor-cruise.html

Edited March 28, 2016 by jtl513

[PatsyAnne]

No matter where the muster is we will still end up sitting/standing around waiting for the minority who think they're too good to join the rest of us ..:rolleyes:

 

 

I'm with you. Also, during the last muster I attended, a few passengers were talking so loudly no one could hear anything. I think I understand why the crew did not make them shut up, but I believe most of the passengers would have been happier if they had. Actually, I don't understand. The idea is that in a real situation, we will need to follow the crew's directions, and they should take the authority during the drill and we should respect that. Late arrivals should buy drinks for the rest of us.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I'm with you. Also, during the last muster I attended, a few passengers were talking so loudly no one could hear anything. I think I understand why the crew did not make them shut up, but I believe most of the passengers would have been happier if they had. Actually, I don't understand. The idea is that in a real situation, we will need to follow the crew's directions, and they should take the authority during the drill and we should respect that. Late arrivals should buy drinks for the rest of us.

 

Most of the crew who are at your muster station are fairly "low level" in the eyes of passengers and probably are reluctant to shush anyone. I know officers are busy supervising the whole process, but it would be good if part of that would be to watch for passengers who are making a disturbance.

 

On our last HAL muster, a few people were talking after their cabin number was called--like nobody else needed to listen?!? Nearby passengers shushed them. We were on the port side and all the dock noises made it difficult to hear as it was.

[chengkp75]

I'm with you. Also, during the last muster I attended, a few passengers were talking so loudly no one could hear anything. I think I understand why the crew did not make them shut up, but I believe most of the passengers would have been happier if they had. Actually, I don't understand. The idea is that in a real situation, we will need to follow the crew's directions, and they should take the authority during the drill and we should respect that. Late arrivals should buy drinks for the rest of us.

 

Any one who has had the "privilege" of being in a passenger muster drill when the USCG is aboard inspecting will note a completely different attitude among the crew working the muster. This leads over to the "real thing" where they will not tolerate any nonsense from the passengers.

 

Most of the crew who are at your muster station are fairly "low level" in the eyes of passengers and probably are reluctant to shush anyone. I know officers are busy supervising the whole process, but it would be good if part of that would be to watch for passengers who are making a disturbance.

 

On our last HAL muster, a few people were talking after their cabin number was called--like nobody else needed to listen?!? Nearby passengers shushed them. We were on the port side and all the dock noises made it difficult to hear as it was.

 

You are quite correct about the crew at the muster stations. At NCL, we used to have the Safety Manager, at least, circulating the deck or the muster stations, to get a feel for the cooperation of the guests, and to quiet any stations that needed it, and to radio the Captain when he needed to announce that the drill would not proceed until everyone shut up and paid attention.

[frankc98376]

A few cruises back our Lifeboat captain was a member of the Shorex staff and was great. She had everyone in perfect lines- roll call was very quick. A couple of people started talking and she quickly told them to keep quiet. They started up again during the Captain's instructions. A young Dutch officer standing nearby walked right up to them and said very firmly (and loud enough for two boats to hear) "The Captain is speaking. When the Captain speaks, YOU DON'T".

 

They were very quiet after that. BTW- the Lifeboat Captain made it very clear no beverages except water bottles. If she saw any other beverages she would collect and dispose of them.

[3rdGenCunarder]

A few cruises back our Lifeboat captain was a member of the Shorex staff and was great. She had everyone in perfect lines- roll call was very quick. A couple of people started talking and she quickly told them to keep quiet. They started up again during the Captain's instructions. A young Dutch officer standing nearby walked right up to them and said very firmly (and loud enough for two boats to hear) "The Captain is speaking. When the Captain speaks, YOU DON'T".

 

They were very quiet after that. BTW- the Lifeboat Captain made it very clear no beverages except water bottles. If she saw any other beverages she would collect and dispose of them.

 

Good on that officer for backing up the lifeboat captain! Sadly, some people don't behave themselves until they see someone with stripes.

[chengkp75]

A few cruises back our Lifeboat captain was a member of the Shorex staff and was great. She had everyone in perfect lines- roll call was very quick. A couple of people started talking and she quickly told them to keep quiet. They started up again during the Captain's instructions. A young Dutch officer standing nearby walked right up to them and said very firmly (and loud enough for two boats to hear) "The Captain is speaking. When the Captain speaks, YOU DON'T".

 

They were very quiet after that. BTW- the Lifeboat Captain made it very clear no beverages except water bottles. If she saw any other beverages she would collect and dispose of them.

 

Just a clarification, and I can't say for sure that HAL is this way, but every ship I've been on, the crew taking the muster, even at the boat station, will not be your boat crew, nor will they even be getting into the boat with you. The actual 3 person boat crew is normally not at the passenger drill, and even if they were, they would be in the boat, prepping it for use, and the muster station personnel are there to assist in getting you into the boat, while the crew moves you within the boat. The muster station personnel will wait with the rest of the crew for the abandon ship signal to proceed to their liferaft station.

Edited March 29, 2016 by chengkp75

[SilvertoGold]

Just a clarification, and I can't say for sure that HAL is this way, but every ship I've been on, the crew taking the muster, even at the boat station, will not be your boat crew, nor will they even be getting into the boat with you. The actual 3 person boat crew is normally not at the passenger drill, and even if they were, they would be in the boat, prepping it for use, and the muster station personnel are there to assist in getting you into the boat, while the crew moves you within the boat. The muster station personnel will wait with the rest of the crew for the abandon ship signal to proceed to their liferaft station.

 

Thanks for this info.

 

However, we were SO happy when our lifeboat Commander was the Cellarmaster and we thought, hmmm ............ Oh, well, dam...........

Edited March 29, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[chengkp75]

Thanks for this info.

 

However, we were SO happy when our lifeboat Commander was the Cellarmaster and we thought, hmmm ............ Oh, well, dam...........

 

Just to throw a little more confusion on the matter, SOLAS requires two trained and certified "lifeboatmen" per lifeboat. However, since every merchant ship officer is a certified lifeboatman, these officers are used to fulfill the requirement. But, since the officers will not be getting into the boats with the passengers (they will still be at their emergency stations dealing with the emergency), the actual lifeboat crew are only trained onboard, and will be a mixture of hotel staff and some deck ratings. The USCG recognizes this fault in SOLAS, and requires the full number of lifeboatmen to be non-officers, and non-deck ratings, so that the actual boat crews are all certified. This only applies, these days, to the POA in Hawaii, as the only US flag cruise ship, but when NCL had more ships out there, there was a special school set up in Pearl Harbor to train lifeboatmen to USCG standards.

[SilvertoGold]

Just to throw a little more confusion on the matter, SOLAS requires two trained and certified "lifeboatmen" per lifeboat. However, since every merchant ship officer is a certified lifeboatman, these officers are used to fulfill the requirement. But, since the officers will not be getting into the boats with the passengers (they will still be at their emergency stations dealing with the emergency), the actual lifeboat crew are only trained onboard, and will be a mixture of hotel staff and some deck ratings. The USCG recognizes this fault in SOLAS, and requires the full number of lifeboatmen to be non-officers, and non-deck ratings, so that the actual boat crews are all certified. This only applies, these days, to the POA in Hawaii, as the only US flag cruise ship, but when NCL had more ships out there, there was a special school set up in Pearl Harbor to train lifeboatmen to USCG standards.

 

Excellent information. All this for American flagged vessels. A reasonable work-around by the USCG.

[chengkp75]

Excellent information. All this for American flagged vessels. A reasonable work-around by the USCG.

 

A small part of why US flag cruises are more expensive, and why the cruise lines don't want to go to US flag.