Disability

[shepherdqueen]

 

It is this sort of attitude that really riles me. I have an invisible disability that makes my need to use disabled facilities as genuine as those with 'visible' disabilities. I do not wear a sign around my neck that says I have a problem that requires that I have instant access to 'the bathroom'. Why should I? Just because you can't see my problem does not mean it doesn't exist. This attitude is what this thread is all about.

 

Please people, next time you see an 'able bodied' person using disabled facilities, think before making a judgment.

 

Perfectly said - I am 45, look younger, and I have a permanent handicap sticker. I use my cane when I have flares - and on vacation to let people know I am not as quick as they are... and I have had people sneer and pass judgment when I do use my handicap parking spot.... "oh - she is using her mother's sticker". GRRRR

Edited June 17, 2016 by shepherdqueen

[HelenREMfan]

You know.... it isn't rocket science to see when people without a disability have used the disabled cubicle - for a start they usually look embarrassed when they exit and see me perched on my crutches waiting. I have rarely challenged anyone when they exit the cubicle as I am well aware that "hidden disabilities" exist.

I see so many people using the only facility I can use...and need at the pool and as I see them more than once, again it is evident that they are not using it because they need to but because it is more convenient to them. On odd occasions they have apologised as it is obvious I have had to sit and wait in the corridor before I can go in to change. I have asked the pool management could they not put the room on an access code or a key system but they won't. I really do wonder why I pay £50 a month for this.

Going to do the only exercise I can manage - swimming - at times becomes stressful because I have to remain watchful to see I can get out to change in time for when I have to leave. This simply should not be the case.

[Redtravel]

I became disabled at 40. I have an invisible disability. I have handicap license plates. I have state issued handicap ID. I have often had people stare at me when I park in a designated handicap space. I have also had strangers ask me what's WRONG with me or say something like you don't belong there. I ignore them. It is annoying. As I am now much older, it doesn't happen as often.

[SeagoingMom]

Though I know this discussion seems to have flagged, I just came across it and find it interesting.

 

One of my best friends is blind. She is a professional woman, and recently attended a conference with her husband accompanying her to get her from place to place in the unfamiliar venue. At one point he left her in a corridor area to wait for him while he used the men's room. At that point, she either found herself in or strayed into the main traffic path, where, unbeknownst, she created a bit of a "speed bump." People had to move around her to proceed, and some apparently jostled her and made her feel uncomfortable. I believe she said someone commented that she was "in the way," and more than one person said "excuse me," expecting her to get out of the way. She interpreted their behavior/comments as being impatient and even rude.

 

Here is my dilemma -- my friend has a cane, which she uses often (though not always), and which she has told me more than once has a powerful impact on people who see it: they take extra care to keep out of her way. So when she told me about the uncomfortable situation she had found herself in, I asked why she had not whipped out her cane as a sort of "signal" for other folks to move around her rather than expecting her to move to let them pass. She said she did not want people to know she was blind!

 

Though I understand that my friend may not prefer to "advertise" her disability, I have an issue with her complaining about others' behavior toward her: labeling as "rude" their quite natural and justified expectation for her to move out of the middle of the traffic flow, when she was not willing to give them the courtesy of understanding that she was not purposely in their way, but needed to stay where she was until her husband (guide) returned.

 

Wouldn't her use of the cane -- her "signalling" to others that she was blind -- have helped others not to seem rude, and kept her from feeling uncomfortable in the situation in which she found herself?

 

Isn't it a bit haughty to expect folks around you to "figure out," with no clues, that you are in a situation that requires them to respond differently to you than to others? Isn't it somewhat unfair to expect people to behave in an accommodating way when there is no possible way for them to know that they should accommodate you?

 

This is the dilemma I have. It bothered me that my friend "blamed" passers-by for not knowing what they could not possibly have known unless she herself "informed" them by displaying her cane. I am fully sympathetic to her impatience with me when, for example, I inadvertently step in front of her and startle her, because I know better! But I think she is causing herself added grief and forcing others into an impossible situation when she expects them to behave differently than they possibly could, given that they have no information.

 

So my question: which is more important for a person with a hidden disability -- to keep the disability hidden and live with the inconveniences of having others act in a less than accommodating way, or give others the opportunity to be accommodating by informing them, in some minimally necessary way, of the need for them to be accommodating?

 

This is a very important question to me, as I personally face a future in which this question will become increasingly relevant.

[MommaBear55]

Coming at this issue from a slightly different angle, might I make a request of those with a legitimate disability--visible or not.

 

When facilities are in high demand (on a cruise or elsewhere) please use the designated "handicap" ones if they're available and leave the regular ones free for those of us who do not have a choice.

 

What do I mean by that? Last winter we had a huge snowstorm followed by ice that kept everyone pretty much housebound for several days. When I eventually ventured out to the grocery store, only a limited number of parking spots were available because of all the piled-up snow.

 

The only ones unoccupied were the five designated handicap spots--all thoroughly cleared of ice and snow.

 

As I finished my fourth circuit of the lot, a "regular" spot finally opened up, and it was right next to the handicap ones.

 

There was one car ahead of me, but it bore handicap tags so all would be well--I thought!

 

To my dismay, it pulled into the "regular" spot! When the driver got out, she was an ancient-looking woman who leaned heavily on her walker.

 

She was obviously entitled to the handicap spot, so I rolled down my window and asked her very politely and gently why she had not used it--since not doing so left me with no place to park.

 

"Oh, Honey," she replied, "I always leave those spaces for people who really need them."

 

I started my fifth circuit of the lot. Sigh.

 

As annoying as it might have been not to get a parking spot, I actually find this story very sweet. I have a 96 year old patient who volunteers at a retirement home, because the old people need her help...

[NordicPrince]

I am surprised that no one on this thread has discussed the issue of cabins for people with disabilities. If people ask for a cabin for people with disabilities it is my understanding that the cruise lines do not or cannot ask the person for the nature of the disability.

 

What disturbs me are those individuals who purposely ask for a cabin for people with disabilities who do not have any disability at all. They just want a cabin with more presumed space. This irks me greatly. It works on an honor system.

 

Now, to tie into a piece of this thread on the use of a disability facility if no one is obviously in need of it, if no one was to request the use of a cabin for people with disabilities does that mean that the cruise lines will not then book the cabins for use by other passengers. Do you think the cabins would go unused? I doubt it very much.

 

In addition, people with physical disabilities who use these cabins will often ask who are the bird brains who design them in the first place. My BIL has a physical disability that requires that he use a skooter to get into a shower area. He has told me more than once that many of the cabins have a lip that he has to negotiate to get in it in first place. Then he gets in and he cant reach the soap dispenser!

 

The issue of what the availability and use of handicapped facilities has not really been written in stone. Or has it and I don;t know about it?

[Chunky2219]

Don't mention the subject of accessible cabins! There's plenty of angst about them to go around over on the disabled part of the forum.

 

My thoughts for the OP are two-fold, both quotes coming from people wiser than me:

Many years ago I was told that the only judgement on you that you need to heed comes from someone that you respect. The ignorant cane swingers probably don't fit in this category, so don't pay any attention.

 

And as my old Gran used to say, "God doesn't let you pay your debts in money". A more contemporary view would be phrased in terms of karma. What I'm saying here is that most of the folks who are looking down their noses at you will one day get to feel life balance up a little and I feel sorry for them.

Having said that, if you know one of the super healthy white van, 4x4 or BMW drivers who thinks it's okay to park in a disabled space while they nip to the ATM, then shame on them!

 

 

.

[violetcat911]

I so understand your problems with a disability that does not really show. I have a very bad back, one knee that needs replacing, bone and heel spurs in both feet. I find standing and walking any distance kills me. When I travel I always take my cane. It helps me stand and gives extra stability when I walk. I use a pretty one and realize it does say "I have walking problems". I started having problems around age 50 and now as I am getting ready to turn 60 I have several great looking canes! I even have a rolling walker if I need it. I have always had such good help from crew on all my cruises. The exception is Celebrity. Every time I went to the buffet I had problems balancing my food and the cane. No one the whole cruise even paid any attention to me. NO HELP! One time I was trying to get a drink at the drink station. There was no ice and there was a crew man there. I asked him if he could help me get some ice.....while standing there in pain using my cane. He just looked at me and said go to the other side!!!! This was a 7 day Alaska cruise and this was how I was treated the whole time. Give me Carnival or Princess who always look out for those of us that need extra help. I was so upset about the whole Celebrity cruise and complained on deaf ears. I even wrote the company when I got home and did not even get a response. It even took several days and calls to customer service to get ice in my room 2 times a day. I asked the steward on the first day and even made a joke that ice and clean towels is all I really need. I guess he just didn't care. We had a balcony room and the sheets on my bed were torn the whole cruise! Same sheets all the cruise, it became a joke. Oh and what I found under the bed.....it had not seen a vacuum in quite a while. All together not a cruise I enjoyed. Totally turned me off of ever going on Celebrity again.

[Colorwheel]

I am surprised that no one on this thread has discussed the issue of cabins for people with disabilities. If people ask for a cabin for people with disabilities it is my understanding that the cruise lines do not or cannot ask the person for the nature of the disability.

 

 

 

What disturbs me are those individuals who purposely ask for a cabin for people with disabilities who do not have any disability at all. They just want a cabin with more presumed space. This irks me greatly. It works on an honor system.

 

 

 

Now, to tie into a piece of this thread on the use of a disability facility if no one is obviously in need of it, if no one was to request the use of a cabin for people with disabilities does that mean that the cruise lines will not then book the cabins for use by other passengers. Do you think the cabins would go unused? I doubt it very much.

 

 

 

In addition, people with physical disabilities who use these cabins will often ask who are the bird brains who design them in the first place. My BIL has a physical disability that requires that he use a skooter to get into a shower area. He has told me more than once that many of the cabins have a lip that he has to negotiate to get in it in first place. Then he gets in and he cant reach the soap dispenser!

 

 

 

The issue of what the availability and use of handicapped facilities has not really been written in stone. Or has it and I don;t know about it?

 

 

 

Oh boy, do I agree with you about the limitations of the accessible cabins. We were B2B and had an accessible cabin as I was using a scooter from recent injury. I hated it! The scooter couldn't negotiate around the closet, door, and bathroom. Getting out of the cabin was a big production! We switched to our original reserved cabin for the 2d part of the trip and parked the scooter outside in hallway.

 

 

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[Colorwheel]

Using a toilet shouldn't take that long. Is waiting worse for you than for other people?

Would you be more accepting of my opinion if I mentioned that I have plantar fasciitis and find standing for any length of time very painful? I thought the point of this thread was "hidden" disabilities?

 

 

 

I have severe bladder incontinence even after two surgeries and a neural stimulator in my spine. Waiting is NOT an option even with "coverage" it will be all over the floor. Sorry to be blunt but I have had to practically beg to usurps another's place in line. And there is no warning in case you wondered.

 

 

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[Zoedokey]

My friend has pretty severe claustrophobia. She doesn't cruise as she would gets too anxious stuck on a ship. She tries to plan to avoid public restrooms, but sometimes can't help but use one. She uses the handicapped stall as it is bigger. I think she is perfectly entitled to, but some would think she was selfish for not being disabled enough. The point is we should not judge anyone for using the space they feel they need. Nobody should be chastised upon exiting a handicapped stall if someone else is waiting for it, they may very well need it too.

 

 

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[Demonyte]

Oh boy, do I agree with you about the limitations of the accessible cabins. We were B2B and had an accessible cabin as I was using a scooter from recent injury. I hated it! The scooter couldn't negotiate around the closet, door, and bathroom. Getting out of the cabin was a big production! We switched to our original reserved cabin for the 2d part of the trip and parked the scooter outside in hallway.

 

 

It is unfortunate that you felt the accessible cabin wasn't that accessible enough, but by parking the scooter in the hallway (strictly forbidden by the international maritime law) you endangered dozens or even hunders of your fellow passengers in a case of emergency. That's really unforgivable no matter what the excuse.

[caribill]

Well Patty

 

"Under the Americans with Disabilities Act facilities are to be readily accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities" Can you explain to me how that is when able bodied folk use the disabled facilities..... using the hand washing facilities in there so taking more time they would if using a "normal" stall - how does that make that disabled facility "readily available"?

 

 

There is a difference between accessible and available.

 

Accessible, which is what the act requires, means someone with disabilities can physically get to it.

 

Nowhere in what you quoted does it say these accessible facilities are exclusively for the use of those with disabilities.

[Project_gal]

I have severe bladder incontinence even after two surgeries and a neural stimulator in my spine. Waiting is NOT an option even with "coverage" it will be all over the floor. Sorry to be blunt but I have had to practically beg to usurps another's place in line. And there is no warning in case you wondered.

 

 

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I had to think long and hard about whether to respond to this post because I can never know who on Cruise Critic I may one day meet in person but here goes ...

 

I could not agree with you more, due to a neurological condition and other medical reasons, I have both bowel and bladder incontinence and there is basically no advance warning of needing to go. Often a disabled facility is necessary to deal with the results.

 

For the record I am not speaking of minor leakage in either case.

 

Please never judge people from outward appearance. No one is ever going to wear a badge saying 'I am doubly incontinent'.

[MsSoCalCruiser]

I am hoping by relating my story that it might help someone else.

 

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It happened to me too.

 

Unfortunately, I had a cardiac event at a young age. Not long after this happened to me I went on a CA Coastal cruise. While in San Francisco I decided to do the Alcatraz excursion.

 

I'm not sure if you've ever been to Alcatraz but once you get there to get to the prison you either have to walk uphill for a super long distance or you can take a tram. I waited in line and took a seat on the tram. All of the seats had been filled and there was one elderly lady standing there without a seat. Remember, I'm younger and you can't tell that anything is wrong with me. All of a sudden the tram driver is pointing at me and yelling.... "You, yes you, can you get up so she can have a seat"

 

I was super embarrassed and blurted out that I had had a heart attack in front of the whole tram. That should have never had happened. When the tram stopped and everybody had left, I let her have it. I hope she never does that to anyone again. I should have reported her but I did not.

[chemmo]

I applaud those who have shared experiences here...Not easy....

 

Having recently cruised using a wheelchair some of the time the thing I found initially disconcerting (but on reflection quite amusing) was that some people seemed to think my brain no longer functioned....

 

In both the hotel we stayed at pre cruise and on board the ship, on occasions, people would talk over my head to my husband about my needs/wants....'Can she walk a few steps, Sir, to get into a car?'... 'Does she need a stool for the shower?'....All being really kind and helpful but..."HELLO, I am here, it is just my legs that aren't working properly!"

[HelenREMfan]

I have never booked an accessible room on a cruise as I am aware that a wheelchair user would need the wider doorways etc. My room however does have to accommodate my walker, crutches and scooter if I have hired one.

I completely disagree with the person criticising Celebrity with their comment about the staff not being helpful. On the 6 cruises I have taken the case is I have met with wonderful kindnesses from the staff - especially in the ladies' rest rooms. I nearly always have a member of the buffet staff coming to me to offer to carry my plate/help me etc. I have found the staff brilliant and all too often far more understanding than some passengers.

Regarding disabled parking spaces - here in the UK at least disabled people can have a "blue badge" which enables the holder to use designated spaces and in towns etc to park on double yellow lines etc. I am referring to the non disabled people who park in the larger spaces who DO NOT have a badge to display (no badge because they do not have a disability but are using the space because they are going to be "quick" etc ) IN my fitter days I would not have dreamt of taking a space or using a disabled toilet. It IS easy to spot someone with a hidden disability as they are the ones coming out of a disabled rest room not looking embarrassed!

I hope the people mentioning here their disability relating to incontinence issues have caused some of the other people to think twice before thinking using a disabled toilet. If as an able bodied person you use the disabled restroom when you could perfectly easily use the other facilities it means that the toilet is in use as the disabled person arrives. The disabled person has had to get themselves to that room.... probably having to have hunted for it and their ability to walk that distance/wait that bit longer really affects them. I don't go around challenging people at the disabled toilets - am just making a plea for a little more consideration from people perfectly able to use the other facilities.

[Lesstax]

Unfortunately I cannot sit idly by whilst unqualified people pass judgement on my ability to do anything whatsoever. I have liver cancer not in itself a disability but I also have fused vertebrae in my back that means walking any great distance cause my back to seize up. I use any assistance offered and would loudly demand the medical qualifications of the "cane swingers". Maybe I am just a bit more confrontational than others I like to call it standing up for myself.

[rucruisn2]

I too have a hidden disability. I have MD and cannot get out of a chair without my DH's help, cannot walk up or down steps, etc. I am vain like the OP and am trying not to use a walker, wheel chair or cane. But I should. I also fall down allot and cannot get up by myself. But if you looked at me, you would not know I have problems. I hate the rude stares I get for strangers who think I am trying to take advantage to a "perk" like a parking space. I have had total strangers yell at me because I "don't look handicapped". I continue to refuse to book a handicap cabin as I know there are many cruisers out there who cannot cruise without one, and so far I can.

Sorry for my rant. Just realize that looks are deceiving.

[Fish Lover]

... The thing that does upset me though is when perfectly able bodied people use disabled facilities. .

 

I know this is an old thread....but really, it deserves a comment.

The OP notes that many people, especially those with visible disabilities, resent or disparage her because her disability is not visible (and therefore non-existant to most people).

 

You have done the same thing. You are making an assumption that people without a visible disability are not disabled and therefore wrongfully using the disabled facilities.

[gold1953]

On the subject of accessible toilet stalls. Normally they are just larger stalls with wider doors and no handicap sign. They are built this way so that wheel chairs can fit in. Also they have grab bars for others who need these. I see no issue with others using these stalls when all others are full. A huge number of people have bladder issues or IBS and need quick access so need to take the 1st available stall

Public washrooms are required to have these..just like businesses that must have a ramp or large door at the entrance.. to allow access.

[gold1953]

we were on a cruise recently .. my daughter's first ( she is 39 and quite fit).. but she cannot ride in a vehicle unless she is in the front. She will a nasty vertigo and headache that can last days . There is no drug for this . So she said .. "I guess no excursions for me" I went to the excursion desk and explained the situation so they said they would put her in a front seat if we booked.. so we did . Our excursion had several small buses so there were lots of front seats . They put us at the front of a line and a guy starts flipping out and yelling.. not nice!! So he got a front seat in another bus. we were in a church at one stop and he approaches her and loudly berates her and calls her a liar for whatever reason she used for a front seat. She didn't bother to explain but told him he should focus on enjoying his day as he was on a cruise

[rucruisn2]

we were on a cruise recently .. my daughter's first ( she is 39 and quite fit).. but she cannot ride in a vehicle unless she is in the front. She will a nasty vertigo and headache that can last days . There is no drug for this . So she said .. "I guess no excursions for me" I went to the excursion desk and explained the situation so they said they would put her in a front seat if we booked.. so we did . Our excursion had several small buses so there were lots of front seats . They put us at the front of a line and a guy starts flipping out and yelling.. not nice!! So he got a front seat in another bus. we were in a church at one stop and he approaches her and loudly berates her and calls her a liar for whatever reason she used for a front seat. She didn't bother to explain but told him he should focus on enjoying his day as he was on a cruise

 

 

Reminds me of the time some guy yelled at me for parking in a disabled spot that I didn't look disabled, I looked back at him and said, "You don't look stupid but apparently you are"

[SeagoingMom]

Though no one responded directly to my above post (#54) when I resurrected this thread the first time last August, I am getting a feeling about what the majority answer is to the question I posted back then:

 

"Is it appropriate to complain about strangers who behave "unaccommodatingly" toward someone with a hidden handicap/disability when the disabled person refuses to reveal, even in a minimal way, their need/desire for accommodation?"

Of course, there is no excuse for rudeness on anyone's part in any social setting, whether disability is at issue or not. Perhaps the answer we are all seeking is simply "live and let live" -- completely stop judging others, and assume the best about others' motivations. This would mean that disabled folks would not criticize others who, for example, "appear" able-bodied but use a handicapped toilet, and those with hidden disabilities would not expect accommodation from those who, obviously, are not aware of their need for it.

 

I am really trying to ascertain why it is that folks feel embarrassed or ashamed to reveal a disability yet seem to expect to be treated differently because they have one...It just doesn't seem reasonable to have it both ways.

 

(Again, I am involved in this discussion because my future will revolve around a disability, and I am trying to educate myself now on strategies that will help me live with it.)

[bEwAbG]

Though no one responded directly to my above post (#54) when I resurrected this thread the first time last August, I am getting a feeling about what the majority answer is to the question I posted back then:

 

"Is it appropriate to complain about strangers who behave "unaccommodatingly" toward someone with a hidden handicap/disability when the disabled person refuses to reveal, even in a minimal way, their need/desire for accommodation?"

Of course, there is no excuse for rudeness on anyone's part in any social setting, whether disability is at issue or not. Perhaps the answer we are all seeking is simply "live and let live" -- completely stop judging others, and assume the best about others' motivations. This would mean that disabled folks would not criticize others who, for example, "appear" able-bodied but use a handicapped toilet, and those with hidden disabilities would not expect accommodation from those who, obviously, are not aware of their need for it.

 

I am really trying to ascertain why it is that folks feel embarrassed or ashamed to reveal a disability yet seem to expect to be treated differently because they have one...It just doesn't seem reasonable to have it both ways.

 

(Again, I am involved in this discussion because my future will revolve around a disability, and I am trying to educate myself now on strategies that will help me live with it.)

 

Because everyone is an individual, the questions you pose are unanswerable.