same price 25 years later

[kira5]

My husband and I are joining our son and his family for an Alaskan Cruise next week. We went on our first Alaskan cruise 25 years ago with my husband's brother and his wife. Talking about our plans with them the question of cost came up. Amazingly, as we had vaguely recalled ourselves, we are paying close to the same price for this cruise as for the one 25 years ago (on the Westerdam) This time we'll be on the Nieuw Amsterdam. Even better, we have a fully obstructed cabin this time compared to the inside cabin then.

 

I don't know how HAL can achieve this since for us, costs and salaries have gone up considerably. It makes me more understanding about the various add ons and other ways they attempt to make up the difference.

[serendipity1499]

My husband and I are joining our son and his family for an Alaskan Cruise next week. We went on our first Alaskan cruise 25 years ago with my husband's brother and his wife. Talking about our plans with them the question of cost came up. Amazingly, as we had vaguely recalled ourselves, we are paying close to the same price for this cruise as for the one 25 years ago (on the Westerdam) This time we'll be on the Nieuw Amsterdam. Even better, we have a fully obstructed cabin this time compared to the inside cabin then.

 

I don't know how HAL can achieve this since for us, costs and salaries have gone up considerably. It makes me more understanding about the various add ons and other ways they attempt to make up the difference.

 

 

 

I have been saying this over & over again for many years.. Especially when posters accuse HAL & other Cruise Lines of nickel & diming..

 

This is exactly what I wrote in my post No. 20 in this thread:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=38920380&posted=1#post38920380

 

I was also commenting on these two posts: Quote

 

Originally Posted by sail7seas

When cruisers scramble to get the lowest possible fares, what do we think will happen?

Of course, they will charge for extras. Pay in the fare or pay at time of consumption but everything on a cruise ship costs.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by richwmn

At one point cruises were pretty much "all inclusive". Then the people that don't drink alcohol complained about paying for others drinking habit. The fares went down a bit, and people were charged for alcoholic beverages.

Other people said "I only drink water and tea, why am I paying for others to drink Coke?" So the lines started charging for sodas, maybe the cruse fare went down.

Many people don't drink coffee, let alone the "fancy" coffee. Why should they subsidize the coffee habits of others!

The list can go on and on. Everything you feel the cruise line is "Nickel and Diming" you to death on is something that someone else does not want / need as part of their cruise. For these items, HAL and other cruise lines have chosen to allow those that wish to partake that option at an additional added cost.

Unquote

 

Quote: Unfortunately many Psgrs don't understand this... The airlines gave up feeding the masses & now charge for everything..Psgrs don't realize that many of the cabins are exactly the same price or less than they were ten-fifteen years ago..

 

Have any of you kept track of the price you pay for your cruises? I'm sure if you did a comparison you would be amazed..The cost of living has increased but not in all transportation sectors..

 

Have kept track of the price of every cabin we've booked on every cruise, since 1998...These prices are for two of us & include taxes & port charges..We always book outsides & I'm comparing only our Caribbean cruises which follows: ..

 

Oct. 1998 the Ryndam was $267 per day..

Nov 2001 the Volendam was $272.50 per day

Nov 2006 the Ryndam was $228. 40 per day..

Nov. 2008 the Maasdam was $215.50 per day..

Nov. 2010 the Noordam was $200.40 per day

Jan 2012 the New Amsterdam was $231 per day

Nov 2012 the Noordam was $231.80 per day

We're again booked on the Ryndam this coming Nov. at a rate of $212.50 per day..

 

Check out the Gov. Inflation rate at:

http://www.coinnews.net/tools/cpi-inflation-calculator/

 

Put in the item costing $267 in 1998..According to the calculator we should be paying $470.60 per day, a change of 42.9% not $212.50..Check it out..You can insert the amount you paid in any given year & see what it would cost now if it kept up with the Rate of Inflation..

 

It stands to reason that if the price of the basic cruise is to remain the same, then HAL & other cruise lines have to charge for many more extras in order to make a profit, hence nickel & diming as some call it...

 

Only our longer Prinsendam cruises & those which we booked trans-Atlantic with a travel wholesaler we paid a good deal more..Our last South America/Antarctica Cruise was the highest price we've ever paid on a cruise, but it was well worth it..

 

I think many of you forsee that sooner rather than later the cruise companies are going to charge for basic meals.. Unquote

Edited August 12, 2016 by serendipity1499

[avian777]

... Amazingly, as we had vaguely recalled ourselves, we are paying close to the same price for this cruise as for the one 25 years ago ...

 

Thanks for sharing this. Just out of curiosity, did you adjust the 1991 price for inflation?

Smooth sailing ...

[avian777]

I have been saying this over & over again for many years ... It stands to reason that if the price of the basic cruise is to remain the same, then HAL & other cruise lines have to charge for many more extras in order to make a profit, hence nickel & diming as some call it...

 

Great Post - it crossed mine in cyber space. Thanks for sharing.

Smooth sailing ...

[Krazy Kruizers]

What about shore excursions?

Just an example -- in Skagway in the 80's we did the train excursions for about $50 per person. Now it is over $100 per person.

Some thing with a few other excursions -- they have all gone up in price.

So maybe cabin prices are about the same but shore excursions have gone up.

And we have done quite a few Alaskan cruises.

[easyboy]

I have been saying this over & over again for many years.. Especially when posters accuse HAL & other Cruise Lines of nickel & diming..

 

This is exactly what I wrote in my post No. 20 in this thread:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=38920380&posted=1#post38920380

 

I was also commenting on these two posts: Quote

Thanks for your analysis.

[serendipity1499]

What about shore excursions?

Just an example -- in Skagway in the 80's we did the train excursions for about $50 per person. Now it is over $100 per person.

Some thing with a few other excursions -- they have all gone up in price.

So maybe cabin prices are about the same but shore excursions have gone up.

And we have done quite a few Alaskan cruises.

 

Of Course, As I've been saying for many years the other costs have to be increased in order to keep up with inflation.. HAL does not set the shore excursion costs the Tour Operators set them.. Shore excursions & extras have to keep up with inflation or HAL will be out of business..That's why HAL can't make a dime on our cabins..They have to increase prices in everything else..

[HollDoll]

Funny to see a post about this. I was just thinking the other day. In 1970 I took a one way cruise on the QEII (Cunard) from NY to Southampton. We chose the smallest lowest level inside cabin and if I recall correctly it was $555 apiece (two of us). I think that's pretty close to today's price for the same thing!

[Florida_gal_50]

Of Course, As I've been saying for many years the other costs have to be increased in order to keep up with inflation.. HAL does not set the shore excursion costs the Tour Operators set them.. Shore excursions & extras have to keep up with inflation or HAL will be out of business..That's why HAL can't make a dime on our cabins..They have to increase prices in everything else..

 

I've read several times on here that hal does make a profit on cabin prices. Of course they make a lot more on the extras. The food was much better years ago than it is now. Once in a great while there are some bargains but that's not the case with every cruise. I also do all inclusive resorts and they are generally quite a bit cheaper and they include alcohol.

[VennDiagram]

My husband and I are joining our son and his family for an Alaskan Cruise next week. We went on our first Alaskan cruise 25 years ago with my husband's brother and his wife. Talking about our plans with them the question of cost came up. Amazingly, as we had vaguely recalled ourselves, we are paying close to the same price for this cruise as for the one 25 years ago (on the Westerdam) This time we'll be on the Nieuw Amsterdam. Even better, we have a fully obstructed cabin this time compared to the inside cabin then.

 

I don't know how HAL can achieve this since for us, costs and salaries have gone up considerably. It makes me more understanding about the various add ons and other ways they attempt to make up the difference.

 

We have actually paid less in 2012, 2013, 2014, for cruises than I had paid for comparable cruises in comparable cabins in 1999 and 2000.

[VennDiagram]

I've read several times on here that hal does make a profit on cabin prices. Of course they make a lot more on the extras. The food was much better years ago than it is now. Once in a great while there are some bargains but that's not the case with every cruise. I also do all inclusive resorts and they are generally quite a bit cheaper and they include alcohol.

 

 

Can you please provide a link to where it has been stated that the cruise line makes money on the cabins? I expect that the Signature and Neptune suites make money but I can't see how on an ordinary length cruise like 7 days, ordinary destination like the Caribbean or Mexican Riviera, the oceanview and inside cabins are making money for the cruise line. They may not be a loss, but that isn't the same as being money makers.

 

I have not yet found an all inclusive that is "quite a bit cheaper". I have found some that are slightly less expensive than a cruise, but mostly what I have found are at least as or more expensive than a cruise.

 

Since we don't drink a lot possibly your evaluation of "cheaper" is different than ours.

[cb at sea]

You get a lot less nowadays, tho...I don't think the over-all experience is as "special" as it used to be....

[kira5]

To answer a question regarding the costs of the two cruises, we paid almost the same amount in dollars for the two cruises. The amount (not including port fees and taxes) was and is about $1250 (US) for each of 2 passengers sharing a cabin.

[serendipity1499]

I've read several times on here that hal does make a profit on cabin prices. Of course they make a lot more on the extras. The food was much better years ago than it is now. Once in a great while there are some bargains but that's not the case with every cruise. I also do all inclusive resorts and they are generally quite a bit cheaper and they include alcohol.

 

Can you please provide a link to where it has been stated that the cruise line makes money on the cabins? I expect that the Signature and Neptune suites make money but I can't see how on an ordinary length cruise like 7 days, ordinary destination like the Caribbean or Mexican Riviera, the oceanview and inside cabins are making money for the cruise line. They may not be a loss, but that isn't the same as being money makers.

 

I have not yet found an all inclusive that is "quite a bit cheaper". I have found some that are slightly less expensive than a cruise, but mostly what I have found are at least as or more expensive than a cruise.

 

Since we don't drink a lot possibly your evaluation of "cheaper" is different than ours.

 

I too would be interested in finding an all inclusive of the same caliber as HAL which is "quite a bit cheaper"

 

I'm retired from the travel business, & still have many friends in the travel business..They too would like to find all inclusives, which are equal to HAL & are "quite a bit cheaper".. Not many all inclusives will give you Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner on a $250 per night room...But, I also don't think that there are not many people who want to spend Aug & Sept in Florida..

 

I can book a room at South Seas Plantation, a local resort for $212.00 per night at this time of the year, but it DOES NOT include meals.. We've stayed there with our Sailing Club & meals are quite expensive unless we want to eat in McDonalds.. Tween Waters Inn on Captiva is asking $320 a night & it too does not include meals..

 

Of course HAL will make a profit on Neptune Suites! However, IMO inside, outside & even our balcony cabin alone is not a money maker.. That's the reason why you have to pay extra for so many other things such as Shore Excursions, special Restaurants etc..

Edited August 13, 2016 by serendipity1499

[GUT2407]

I was saying similar up to this year.

 

This year prices did appear to be creeping up a bit, but a couple of refares and all is good.

 

Probably one issue is ship size, the bigger ships would give better economy per person in many ways, compare a ship with 1000 PAX to one with 3000. Even if they have the same hotel staff to PAX ratio, they save a lot at the top end, one Capt, one 2nd officer one Engineer etc, v three. I imagine there are other economies that come with scale too, but having said all that it's hard to beat.

 

2004 7 days Sydney to Tasmania $1,799 ea

2016 7 days Sydney to Tasmania $1,449 ea with $300 ea OBC

 

BOTH departing second week of December and returning the week of Christmas, so very much apples and apples, except one was 680 PAX the other 3,200 or thereabouts.

[cbr663]

Can you please provide a link to where it has been stated that the cruise line makes money on the cabins? I expect that the Signature and Neptune suites make money but I can't see how on an ordinary length cruise like 7 days, ordinary destination like the Caribbean or Mexican Riviera, the oceanview and inside cabins are making money for the cruise line. They may not be a loss, but that isn't the same as being money makers.

 

I have not yet found an all inclusive that is "quite a bit cheaper". I have found some that are slightly less expensive than a cruise, but mostly what I have found are at least as or more expensive than a cruise.

 

Since we don't drink a lot possibly your evaluation of "cheaper" is different than ours.

 

Actually, in 2015 I posted that HAL makes less per square foot on Neptune Suites than it does on nearly every other type of cabin. (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=48276083&highlight=neptune+suite#post48276083).

 

I thought I would take a look and see how this cruise is priced today. The numbers are fascinating.

 

Back on November 13, 2015, the 14 - day sailing on the NA (CAD$):

 

- Interior $1,599 or $11.34 per sq. ft

- Ocean View $1,799 or $10.64 per sq. ft

- Verandah $2,149 or $10.09 per sq. ft

- Signature Suite $3,799 or $13.92 per sq. ft

- Neptune Suite $4,600 or $9.29 per square ft.

 

Just checked the pricing for this sailing tonight and:

 

- Interior $2,399 or $16.59 per sq. ft

- Ocean View $2,599 or $15.38 per sq. ft

- Verandah $3,119 or $14.64 per sq. ft

- Signature Suite $4,939 or $18.09 per sq. ft

- Neptune Suite $6,369 or $12.59 per sq. ft

 

So with today's pricing, the person sailing in the interior cabin is paying more than 34% more per square foot than the person sailing in the Neptune Suite.

 

But what is even more interesting is that HAL has not applied the same rate increase to all cabins. Here are the rate of price increases from November's pricing to today:

 

Interior - 46.28%

Ocean View - 44.47%

Verandah - 45.14%

Signature Suite - 30.01%

Neptune Suite - 35.54%

[mudscraper]

I was told there would be no math on this thread!

[kazu]

Actually, in 2015 I posted that HAL makes less per square foot on Neptune Suites than it does on nearly every other type of cabin. (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=48276083&highlight=neptune+suite#post48276083).

 

I thought I would take a look and see how this cruise is priced today. The numbers are fascinating.

 

Back on November 13, 2015, the 14 - day sailing on the NA (CAD$):

 

- Interior $1,599 or $11.34 per sq. ft

- Ocean View $1,799 or $10.64 per sq. ft

- Verandah $2,149 or $10.09 per sq. ft

- Signature Suite $3,799 or $13.92 per sq. ft

- Neptune Suite $4,600 or $9.29 per square ft.

 

Just checked the pricing for this sailing tonight and:

 

- Interior $2,399 or $16.59 per sq. ft

- Ocean View $2,599 or $15.38 per sq. ft

- Verandah $3,119 or $14.64 per sq. ft

- Signature Suite $4,939 or $18.09 per sq. ft

- Neptune Suite $6,369 or $12.59 per sq. ft

 

So with today's pricing, the person sailing in the interior cabin is paying more than 34% more per square foot than the person sailing in the Neptune Suite.

 

But what is even more interesting is that HAL has not applied the same rate increase to all cabins. Here are the rate of price increases from November's pricing to today:

 

 

Increase in daily cost:

Interior - 46.28%. 50%

Ocean View - 44.47%. 44%

Verandah - 45.14%. 45%

Signature Suite - 30.01%. 30%

Neptune Suite - 35.54% 38%

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to do this and I am not going to get into quibbling about math, but using square footage has a flaw IMO.

 

Remember, you are looking at one ship (and there are only 3 in the fleet that are this szie or larger) and one cruise. Prices Fluctuate and are not the same across the fleet (especially the smaller ships)

 

Cabins vary in sizes and the prices do as well. I realize you are using the lowest category but let's keep in mind that the bulk of the Neptune Suites are catergory SA. There are not many SB's or SC's to book. An SA is usually a significant price more than an SB or SC. On your example (Nov. 18, 2017), it is $1100 more per person approximately (Canadian).

 

In any case, I tend to look at the cost per day of a cruise. I inserted it above and not a serious difference. It would be interesting to know what the cost of an SA was back then to do a true comparison. I do know (from looking) that the difference between SC, SB and SA has progressively gone up in price.

[igraf]

I am guessing that the price of alcoholic drinks has also increased over the years. There is also the internet charges and the hotel service charge.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

What about shore excursions?

 

Just an example -- in Skagway in the 80's we did the train excursions for about $50 per person. Now it is over $100 per person.

 

Some thing with a few other excursions -- they have all gone up in price.

 

So maybe cabin prices are about the same but shore excursions have gone up.

 

And we have done quite a few Alaskan cruises.

[cbr663]

The point of my posting is to try and dispel the erroneous assumption that many people hold that if an item costs more than it is the most profitable.

 

Of course this is just a snapshot in time. And of course each of these categories all have subcategories with different prices. Yes there are larger Neptune Suites with higher prices, just as there are larger Insides with higher prices also.

 

From a pricing and revenue point of view, I think that this example shows that HAL still has challenges pricing its Neptune Suites relative to its other cabin categories. Even relative to the SS, the lowest priced Neptune Suite should be priced at 506 sq. ft x $18.09 = $9153. And this price doesn't account for a premium that needs to be applied to cover the additional amenities found in the Neptune Suite.

 

So for those of you who wonder why HAL has reduced the number of Neptune and Pinnacle Suites on the K, this may very well be the reason why. Why build less revenue generating Neptune Suites when you can simply build more Vista Suites and Signature Suites?

[kazu]

The point of my posting is to try and dispel the erroneous assumption that many people hold that if an item costs more than it is the most profitable.

 

Of course this is just a snapshot in time. And of course each of these categories all have subcategories with different prices. Yes there are larger Neptune Suites with higher prices, just as there are larger Insides with higher prices also.

 

From a pricing and revenue point of view, I think that this example shows that HAL still has challenges pricing its Neptune Suites relative to its other cabin categories. Even relative to the SS, the lowest priced Neptune Suite should be priced at 506 sq. ft x $18.09 = $9153. And this price doesn't account for a premium that needs to be applied to cover the additional amenities found in the Neptune Suite.

 

So for those of you who wonder why HAL has reduced the number of Neptune and Pinnacle Suites on the K, this may very well be the reason why. Why build less revenue generating Neptune Suites when you can simply build more Vista Suites and Signature Suites?

 

I understood what you were trying to say, but I am confused.

 

Isn't there a fixed cost associated for each cabin based on two people? Cost of officers, staff, food, oil, running ship, etc.? Isn't this the reason solos are charged double or nearly that?

 

If there are fixed costs, then, once those are covered in the cabin fare, wouldn't the more expensive cabins yield more profit for the ship?

 

I'm sure square footage plays some kind of role but I don't think it is the only measurement.

 

As to the Koningsdam, we will have to wait to see what the "real" prices are down the road. It's popular because it is "new" and it's prices are currently higher because of demand compared to the others from what I can see.

 

I think only HAL has the answer to all of this and they are not talking ;)

[sail7seas]

I have been saying this over & over again for many years.. Especially when posters accuse HAL & other Cruise Lines of nickel & diming..

 

This is exactly what I wrote in my post No. 20 in this thread:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=38920380&posted=1#post38920380

 

I was also commenting on these two posts: Quote

 

Originally Posted by sail7seas

When cruisers scramble to get the lowest possible fares, what do we think will happen?

Of course, they will charge for extras. Pay in the fare or pay at time of consumption but everything on a cruise ship costs.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by richwmn

At one point cruises were pretty much "all inclusive". Then the people that don't drink alcohol complained about paying for others drinking habit. The fares went down a bit, and people were charged for alcoholic beverages.

Other people said "I only drink water and tea, why am I paying for others to drink Coke?" So the lines started charging for sodas, maybe the cruse fare went down.

Many people don't drink coffee, let alone the "fancy" coffee. Why should they subsidize the coffee habits of others!

The list can go on and on. Everything you feel the cruise line is "Nickel and Diming" you to death on is something that someone else does not want / need as part of their cruise. For these items, HAL and other cruise lines have chosen to allow those that wish to partake that option at an additional added cost.

Unquote

 

Quote: Unfortunately many Psgrs don't understand this... The airlines gave up feeding the masses & now charge for everything..Psgrs don't realize that many of the cabins are exactly the same price or less than they were ten-fifteen years ago..

 

Have any of you kept track of the price you pay for your cruises? I'm sure if you did a comparison you would be amazed..The cost of living has increased but not in all transportation sectors..

 

Have kept track of the price of every cabin we've booked on every cruise, since 1998...These prices are for two of us & include taxes & port charges..We always book outsides & I'm comparing only our Caribbean cruises which follows: ..

 

Oct. 1998 the Ryndam was $267 per day..

Nov 2001 the Volendam was $272.50 per day

Nov 2006 the Ryndam was $228. 40 per day..

Nov. 2008 the Maasdam was $215.50 per day..

Nov. 2010 the Noordam was $200.40 per day

Jan 2012 the New Amsterdam was $231 per day

Nov 2012 the Noordam was $231.80 per day

We're again booked on the Ryndam this coming Nov. at a rate of $212.50 per day..

 

Check out the Gov. Inflation rate at:

http://www.coinnews.net/tools/cpi-inflation-calculator/

 

Put in the item costing $267 in 1998..According to the calculator we should be paying $470.60 per day, a change of 42.9% not $212.50..Check it out..You can insert the amount you paid in any given year & see what it would cost now if it kept up with the Rate of Inflation..

 

It stands to reason that if the price of the basic cruise is to remain the same, then HAL & other cruise lines have to charge for many more extras in order to make a profit, hence nickel & diming as some call it...

 

Only our longer Prinsendam cruises & those which we booked trans-Atlantic with a travel wholesaler we paid a good deal more..Our last South America/Antarctica Cruise was the highest price we've ever paid on a cruise, but it was well worth it..

 

I think many of you forsee that sooner rather than later the cruise companies are going to charge for basic meals.. Unquote

 

I've read several times on here that hal does make a profit on cabin prices. Of course they make a lot more on the extras. The food was much better years ago than it is now. Once in a great while there are some bargains but that's not the case with every cruise. I also do all inclusive resorts and they are generally quite a bit cheaper and they include alcohol.

pRICE COMPARISON ASIDE, NOTT EVERYONE WHO WISHES TRO CRUISE would er inter3e3ste3d in AI. MY dh AND i NEVER wished to go to an AI though we did many resortrty stays gtyyhrough gthe years.

 

Just NOT and AI.

[SimplyCool]

You get a lot less nowadays, tho...I don't think the over-all experience is as "special" as it used to be....

 

You are absolutely right.

[VennDiagram]

Actually, in 2015 I posted that HAL makes less per square foot on Neptune Suites than it does on nearly every other type of cabin. (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=48276083&highlight=neptune+suite#post48276083).

 

I thought I would take a look and see how this cruise is priced today. The numbers are fascinating.

 

Back on November 13, 2015, the 14 - day sailing on the NA (CAD$):

 

- Interior $1,599 or $11.34 per sq. ft

- Ocean View $1,799 or $10.64 per sq. ft

- Verandah $2,149 or $10.09 per sq. ft

- Signature Suite $3,799 or $13.92 per sq. ft

- Neptune Suite $4,600 or $9.29 per square ft.

 

Just checked the pricing for this sailing tonight and:

 

- Interior $2,399 or $16.59 per sq. ft

- Ocean View $2,599 or $15.38 per sq. ft

- Verandah $3,119 or $14.64 per sq. ft

- Signature Suite $4,939 or $18.09 per sq. ft

- Neptune Suite $6,369 or $12.59 per sq. ft

 

So with today's pricing, the person sailing in the interior cabin is paying more than 34% more per square foot than the person sailing in the Neptune Suite.

 

But what is even more interesting is that HAL has not applied the same rate increase to all cabins. Here are the rate of price increases from November's pricing to today:

 

Interior - 46.28%

Ocean View - 44.47%

Verandah - 45.14%

Signature Suite - 30.01%

Neptune Suite - 35.54%

 

Thanks for that. I would think that there are other factors besides square footage that influence whether or not a cabin "makes money". A higher per square foot price doesn't necessarily mean an interior cabin makes money -- it just means it costs more per square foot. As the other poster mentioned there are costs to each cabin, ie, crew costs, food costs, etc. For a lower end cabin those costs would be a higher portion of the fare than they would be for a higher end cabin. For example if the fixed cost is $300/passenger, a $600 fare is already half gone covering the fixed costs for an interior cabin. In a high end cabin with a $2000 per passenger fare, the fixed costs of $300 are substantially LESS of a portion of the fare.

 

I don't think I am explaining myself clearly. I may need to post about this again :) :eek:

[VennDiagram]

Good to see you posting. I thought we wouldn't be blessed with your wisdom because you would busy packing for your move to central Canada:).

 

I think you have me confused with someone else. I'm not moving!!!