E-cigs?

[Haddonqueen]

Ummm, no it can't. 100% cannot.

 

Hi, I just thought I'd tell you that my son set an alarm off in a plane with using an ECig in the loo. He got told off and had to do the walk of shame to his seat.

I can't see any problem using them in the cabin, Azamara allows them cos my husband used his in the cabin in December.

[tassie cruiser]

Hi, I just thought I'd tell you that my son set an alarm off in a plane with using an ECig in the loo. He got told off and had to do the walk of shame to his seat.

I can't see any problem using them in the cabin, Azamara allows them cos my husband used his in the cabin in December.

 

 

Oh your poor son, can imagine how embarrassed he was, poor guy.. Mind you if it was a cigarette he would have been in a whole heap of trouble I would imagine. We flew to Bali and a couple vaped pretty much all the way, but disguised it a bit, like puffed when they had a hot drink, so it just looked like steam and down the old shirt trick, but we were into them. :p:p:p

[need2bespoiled]

I can't believe all the comments about them bing orderless. Many times I have smelled the vapor, looked around and identified the person vapping nearby.

 

Second, they can most definitely see you vaping on your balcony, how far back will depend on the balcony and location.

 

The rules for smoking are just not about he health impact of second hand smoke, but fires on ships.

 

While ecigs are commonly used and the chanches are low, the do catch on fire (phones, computers, tablets are suseptable too, but those are more widely used and recalled when needed) and there is no need to add the risk in the cabin, when you can just as easily smoke outisde in a designated area.

 

Some people follow rules, some people break rules. The challenge comes when, who and where the lines are drawn on what rules are OK to break and what rules need to be followed.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[fshagan]

I can't believe all the comments about them bing orderless. Many times I have smelled the vapor, looked around and identified the person vapping nearby.

 

Second, they can most definitely see you vaping on your balcony, how far back will depend on the balcony and location.

 

The rules for smoking are just not about he health impact of second hand smoke, but fires on ships.

 

While ecigs are commonly used and the chanches are low, the do catch on fire (phones, computers, tablets are suseptable too, but those are more widely used and recalled when needed) and there is no need to add the risk in the cabin, when you can just as easily smoke outisde in a designated area.

 

Some people follow rules, some people break rules. The challenge comes when, who and where the lines are drawn on what rules are OK to break and what rules need to be followed.

 

I work with a lot of young people who have switched to vaping from cigarettes. It's a good move according to the Royal College of Physicians, who evidently don't have our American puritan instincts to ban anything people find enjoyable because it looks like something bad.

 

Some of them use scented vapor, and you can smell cinnamon (a favorite of the guys), mint, rose, and a few weird mixed scents. I can see how this could be objectionable to people.

 

Some of them build their own vape machines, which look nothing like cigarettes ... more like a Tic Tac candy box with a spigot ... and produce a LOT of vapor. A LOT. I can see how seeing someone's head engulfed in a cloud of vapor that is still visible as it passes over other people would be objectionable.

 

But the majority use standard, non-scented vapor products, up to 95% less dangerous to them than the cigarettes they gave up. And no evidence, none, that they harm anyone else. They are not scented, and the amount of vapor is about the same as the vapor you give off drinking hot chocolate (make sure you raise your cup up high when the modern Carrie Nations rush over to see what that vapor is ... don't want to get smacked with a pick axe).

 

X is free to make the rules they do, and I think the only logical reason for banning vaping on balconies, etc., is that others will call security with reports of smoking that they will have to investigate. In true human "eye witness" form, these reports will include that the people can smell tobacco when it isn't present, because they see the vapor. If you think it's smoke your mind can fill in the rest of the details, including the smell.

 

Their ship, their rules. If I was a vaper, and heard that lines allowed vaping in cabins, I would probably switch to that line.

[mom says]

:rolleyes: The OP can choose to follow the rules regarding use of ecigs, or not. But for his sake, I hope his cabin doesn't have particulate sensor smoke detectors. Because vaping will most certainly set them off. This happened to a niece just a couple of weeks ago. At a reception, she snuck off to an unused room to indulge in some vaping and set off the detectors. Resulting in the evacuation if the entire reception. Needless to say, she didn't return to the party when it resumed.

[davekathy]

:rolleyes: The OP can choose to follow the rules regarding use of ecigs, or not. But for his sake, I hope his cabin doesn't have particulate sensor smoke detectors. Because vaping will most certainly set them off. This happened to a niece just a couple of weeks ago. At a reception, she snuck off to an unused room to indulge in some vaping and set off the detectors. Resulting in the evacuation if the entire reception. Needless to say, she didn't return to the party when it resumed.

 

I think it would be funny and self deserving if someone was vaping and set off a particulate sensor smoke detector and got busted.

Edited October 1, 2016 by davekathy

[RDC1]

There's no way hotels or cruise lines will pay the price, even if it's as little as $5 or $10 per kit, but I'd guess it's more than that, to nicotine swipe test every room after every guest checks out. More cost effective is to only use the kits when rooms have an evident smell of smoke to back up their smoking charge. Landlords may do a kit when tennants leave since this is far less frequent.

 

They don't check every room. What the hotels that I know of that use them do is when they think that a guest has been breaking the rules concerning non-smoking, they do a wipe to document. That is then used if the quest contests the charge. Usually this comes into play when someone tries to dispute the charge through their credit card. The hotel then send the results along with the check in form showing the policy to the credit card company.

 

The main point is that it is possible to detect use.

[RDC1]

I work with a lot of young people who have switched to vaping from cigarettes. It's a good move according to the Royal College of Physicians, who evidently don't have our American puritan instincts to ban anything people find enjoyable because it looks like something bad.

 

Some of them use scented vapor, and you can smell cinnamon (a favorite of the guys), mint, rose, and a few weird mixed scents. I can see how this could be objectionable to people.

 

Some of them build their own vape machines, which look nothing like cigarettes ... more like a Tic Tac candy box with a spigot ... and produce a LOT of vapor. A LOT. I can see how seeing someone's head engulfed in a cloud of vapor that is still visible as it passes over other people would be objectionable.

 

But the majority use standard, non-scented vapor products, up to 95% less dangerous to them than the cigarettes they gave up. And no evidence, none, that they harm anyone else. They are not scented, and the amount of vapor is about the same as the vapor you give off drinking hot chocolate (make sure you raise your cup up high when the modern Carrie Nations rush over to see what that vapor is ... don't want to get smacked with a pick axe).

 

X is free to make the rules they do, and I think the only logical reason for banning vaping on balconies, etc., is that others will call security with reports of smoking that they will have to investigate. In true human "eye witness" form, these reports will include that the people can smell tobacco when it isn't present, because they see the vapor. If you think it's smoke your mind can fill in the rest of the details, including the smell.

 

Their ship, their rules. If I was a vaper, and heard that lines allowed vaping in cabins, I would probably switch to that line.

 

while switching from cigarettes to vaping is a good move for those that smoke.

 

That is not the same as saying that they are without health impact, even on a second or third hand basis. Actually there is evidence that they can impact others. They do emit more particulates in the 10nm size range than a standard cigarette and those have been tied to a number of negative health effects. The liguids containing nicotine do disperse it into the air and also results in deposits on surface areas which has its own documented health impacts. That does not get into the fact that some of the devices and compounds are poorly made and contain items that result in some toxic compounds making into the vapor (including heavy metals). While the glycol compound used as a base for many liquids is approved for oral consumption, there are concerns when it is heated and vaporized. The same material is used in theatrical fog and it is well documents that frequent exposure to that use can result in irritation of the throat and lungs.

 

In May 2005, a study published in the American Journal of Industrial Medicine,[13] conducted by the School of Environment and Health at the University of British Columbia, looked at adverse respiratory effects in crew members on a wide variety of entertainment venues ranging from live theatres, concerts, television and film productions to a video arcade. This study determined that cumulative exposure to mineral oil and glycol-based fogs were associated with acute and chronic adverse effects on respiratory health. This study found that short-term exposure to glycol fog was associated with coughing, dry throat, headaches, dizziness, drowsiness, and tiredness. This study also found long-term exposure to smoke and fog was associated with both short-term and long-term respiratory problems such as chest tightness and wheezing. Personnel working closest to the fog machines had reduced lung function results.

 

The Entertainment Services and Technology Association (ESTA) has compiled a standard for theatrical fogs or artificial mists compositions for use in entertainment venues that "are not likely to be harmful to otherwise healthy performers, technicians, or audience members of normal working age, which is 18 to 64 years of age, inclusive."[14] This standard was based primarily (though not exclusively), upon the findings of a report commissioned for ESTA by the Cohen Group[15] and applies only those fog fluid compositions that consist of a mixture of water and glycol (so called "water based" fog fluid).

Edited October 1, 2016 by RDC1

[bbappel]

There's no way for them to know you're vaping in your cabin, unless they have it bugged with cameras, ecigs leave no odor or any trace they've been used. So vape away, I do it all the time. I even stealth vape in restaurants, no one is the wiser.

 

Are you certain they don't leave trace elements? I ask because some people are allergic to cigarettes and this would threaten their health. I don't think enough is known about these e-cigs. They haven't been adequately studied to determine long-term use.

[tassie cruiser]

I work with a lot of young people who have switched to vaping from cigarettes. It's a good move according to the Royal College of Physicians, who evidently don't have our American puritan instincts to ban anything people find enjoyable because it looks like something bad.

 

Some of them use scented vapor, and you can smell cinnamon (a favorite of the guys), mint, rose, and a few weird mixed scents. I can see how this could be objectionable to people.

 

Some of them build their own vape machines, which look nothing like cigarettes ... more like a Tic Tac candy box with a spigot ... and produce a LOT of vapor. A LOT. I can see how seeing someone's head engulfed in a cloud of vapor that is still visible as it passes over other people would be objectionable.

 

But the majority use standard, non-scented vapor products, up to 95% less dangerous to them than the cigarettes they gave up. And no evidence, none, that they harm anyone else. They are not scented, and the amount of vapor is about the same as the vapor you give off drinking hot chocolate (make sure you raise your cup up high when the modern Carrie Nations rush over to see what that vapor is ... don't want to get smacked with a pick axe).

 

X is free to make the rules they do, and I think the only logical reason for banning vaping on balconies, etc., is that others will call security with reports of smoking that they will have to investigate. In true human "eye witness" form, these reports will include that the people can smell tobacco when it isn't present, because they see the vapor. If you think it's smoke your mind can fill in the rest of the details, including the smell.

 

Their ship, their rules. If I was a vaper, and heard that lines allowed vaping in cabins, I would probably switch to that line.

 

Thank the lord, at last a normal person that speaks the truth and makes sense. On our last cruise we were chatting to a lot of the staff (RCCL) majority of the staff have and they use in their cabins, on their breaks etc...the medical staff were using as well. And is encouraged by the ship so if they are so bad, why is this encouraged. Sheesh....

Edited October 1, 2016 by tassie cruiser

[gimletgal]

OP - I'm so glad you started this thread as I have learned so much from all the experts! Happy cruising! :D

 

(Can't wait for the next installment...)

[Rustybuttons123]

The main reason ecigs are banned in public places is because the social behavior of puffing on something is taboo, and people fear the re-normalization of a smoke-like behavior. That's really the main thing, its controlling a person's behavior. These are the same people who conduct "studies" with fog machines that produce abnormal and unrealistic amounts of vapor, they have an agenda to demonize ecigs. Ecig liquid has propylene glycol, which is considered safe by the FDA and is present in food, and its been used in asthma inhalers for 50+ years. Other ingredients are glycerin, also found in found in food, flavorings and nicotine. Nicotine is classified as a carcinogen but the jury is still out as to whether it truly has cancer causing properties. Its classified as a carcinogen simply because its one of the many chemicals found in tobacco, so all chemicals found in tobacco are classified as carcinogenic, whether they truly are or not. Tests on lab animals with only nicotine have not been found to cause cancer. Nicotine has actually been found to have positive qualities, its been linked to greatly reduced occurrences of alzheimer's, Parkinson's and other neurological disorders among smokers. In fact, nicotine is used to treat alzheimer's patients. The only thing that is known as a negative effect with nicotine is its highly addictive, but no one has ever become addicted to nicotine through 2nd hand smoke.

[Sandtrap328]

Whether it is a cigarette, pipe, cigar, or e-cigarette being "done" around me in a ship's non-smoking area and I see it, I will bring it to the attention of ship's personnel for them to handle.

 

I have seen those "vapers" in the MDR actually trying to look inconspicious by putting their heads under the table every couple of minutes to take a big puff. They were asked to stop this foolish behavior. They chose to leave the restaurant.

 

Obey the rules, folks. Vape if you enjoy it but do it in a "smoking area" of the ship.

[suspaul]

Just don't understand why so many feel it's OK not to abide by the rules of whichever cruise line you choose. There is an area for smoking, vaping, etc, use it! Some people always have to push the rules and feel like they're getting something over by doing what they want.

 

 

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[Fish Lover]

It 100% depends on the technology a particular smoke detector is using to determine if there is smoke or not.

 

Some smoke detectors go off just when one gets steam from a shower in a room. The kinds that Vapes would affect use senses to detect particles in a beam of light, so when steam particles pass, the detector will go off.

 

There are some detectors that work off heat which wouldn't be subject to Vape's, and some more expensive versions that are less sensitive, but the fact is, vaping can set off detectors.

 

 

You are absolutely correct. My smoke detector goes off when I have the windows open and we are having fog. I assume we are all adults here. Therefore I would assume that you all value the need for rules. Just because you do not understand a rule, does not mean you should feel free to ignore it or substitute your uninformed judgment for those that are informed. Isn't that what you would tell your kids as a responsible parent?

[fshagan]

Just don't understand why so many feel it's OK not to abide by the rules of whichever cruise line you choose. There is an area for smoking, vaping, etc, use it! Some people always have to push the rules and feel like they're getting something over by doing what they want.

 

The problem is that you are forcing people who have quit smoking, and may be sensitive to the smoke themselves now, to engage in their pleasurable behavior only with smokers, exposing them to the harmful effects of second hand smoke.

 

HAL has instituted a no-smoking on balconies policy effective on Jan. 1, 2017 on most ships. Public areas and balconies are off limits to e-cigs too, but you are allowed to smoke them inside your cabin. Here's their new smoking policy (warning for mobile devices: this link is a PDF file): http://f.e.hollandamerica.com/i/41/1010169812/Smoking_Policy.pdf

 

I think they are just recognizing that it is unenforceable to ban e-cigs in cabins. At least it gives recovering smokers who vape a chance to avoid being with smokers.

[aquanaut1]

With regard to e cigs. I would definitely check about using them in cabins . There is a significant fire risk linked to all e cigs , so much so that in the UK at the giant sports stadium that I work at , the e cig rule is the same as normal cigarettes . Safer to check .

 

 

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[Charles4515]

 

 

 

HAL has instituted a no-smoking on balconies policy effective on Jan. 1, 2017 on most ships. Public areas and balconies are off limits to e-cigs too, but you are allowed to smoke them inside your cabin. Here's their new smoking policy (warning for mobile devices: this link is a PDF file): http://f.e.hollandamerica.com/i/41/1010169812/Smoking_Policy.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry not on E Sigs but thanks for posting this. I hadn't heard. I can now book HAL again!

 

 

 

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[ChucktownSteve]

hahaha. Hey Davekathy, have you considered applying for Celebrity Cruises job? You beat their copy and paste from the Celebrity web site one day before them. ROFLMAO

[Melissa at Mohair Meadows]

There's no way for them to know you're vaping in your cabin, unless they have it bugged with cameras, ecigs leave no odor or any trace they've been used. So vape away, I do it all the time. I even stealth vape in restaurants, no one is the wiser.

 

DH is very sensitive to cigarette odors - even VAPE. He can tell when our daughter has been smoking e-cigs. I sometimes an too for a short while. It doesn't linger long for me - but he can smell it.

[bbappel]

In response to Rustybuttons statement that the jury is still out on nicotine. For 17 years I worked at a Cancer research center supported by NIH. One of the major accomplishments is showing how nicotine causes cancer. The Director of Research when I joined went on to a University where he was able to determine the effects of side-stream tobacco exposure. With this in mind, I went to the NIH website of publications, PubMed Central to look into this. First thing though, at the end of each article is a disclosure paragraph. I read 3 articles and the first two said, no harm. Both were supported by tobacco or e-cig companies.

This excerpt from an article was not supported by any tobacco or e-cig industry. However it is a review article, thus quotes articles discussing research that has been supported by tobacco and e-cig groups, so that should be kept in mind.

 

I don't think of myself as a "puritan" in any way, but cigarette smoking is offensive to me and so is e-cig so I'm not sure why. I know cigarette smoking is highly dangerous, since I lost both parents to lung cancer, likely caused by their life-long smoking habits. Cigarette smoking makes people smell like a dirty ashtray and as a child, I was assigned to empty and clean said ashtrays so it may be a response to that. It also may be that I simply don't trust the companies involved.

 

Nicotine is a psychomotor stimulant that can cause severe side effects (Davies, 2001; CDC, 2005), including death (Corkery et al., 2010). Nicotine itself may also have cancer-promoting effects on the user, and may make traditional cancer treatments less efficacious (Warren and Singh, 2013). There is a health risk to adults and especially to children associated with the availability of this drug in solutions that are labeled and flavored as candy, dessert, or fruit and in vials that may contain toxic doses (e.g., 1,080 mg nicotine in a 30 ml bottle of 36 mg/ml “Tutti Fruti Gumball”; Vaperzone Inc., 2013). Another concern is that some ECIG users mix their own solutions to customize flavors and/or nicotine concentrations (Etter, 2012a). Mixing solutions in a non-sterile environment carries the risk of contamination, and failure to use proper safety clothing and procedures could lead to accidental nicotine poisoning.

 

They did conclude that:

The most important roles that science can play in the current ECIG debate are to identify and then fill the substantial knowledge gaps that exist today. The review of the literature presented here highlights clearly that very little is known about the acute and longer-term effects of ECIG use for individuals and the public health, especially given the dramatic variability in ECIG devices, liquids, and user behavior. For example, the few published studies examining ECIG toxicant content, yield, delivery, and effects on users involved a very limited set of devices and liquids; detailed analysis of user behavior (e.g., puff topography) has been absent. Similarly, the few published clinical trials have used ECIG device/dose combinations that likely did not deliver cigarette-like doses of nicotine to participants, and also did not provide instructions to participants on how to extract nicotine effectively (whatever those instructions might be). No existing studies address the extent to which the inhalation of ECIG vapor hundreds of times every day over a period of multiple years influences human health, particularly pulmonary function. The extent to which tobacco cigarette smokers use ECIGs as a supplement or substitute for combustible tobacco has been addressed only recently, and, again, the extant data do not address the variability of products and populations. Thus, any generalizations of the small body of work reviewed here to the entire ECIG landscape and to the long-term effects in individuals and to public health are premature.

 

One major factor in our choosing Celebrity is their smoking policy. I would hate to see that change to allow e-cigs since they haven't been around long enough to determine the long-range effects.

 

Beth

[Charles4515]

As far as E-Cigs, care needs to be taken. Cigarettes were once advertised as healthful even though the tobacco companies knew otherwise.

 

 

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[Rustybuttons123]

Beth, you say you're not sure why you find ecigs offensive. I explained in an earlier comment exactly why. You're offended by the behavior of someone recreationally inhaling something for pleasure. Has nothing to do with much else and it isn't about the children either, we have fruity flavored liquor and no one ever suggested banning alcohol with fruity flavors so it wouldn't appeal to kids. These are all just excuses. No one ever questions fumes and vapors from cleaning solutions, colognes, perfumes and a whole host of other sources if potentially dangerous vapors, no of course not because they aren't being used like a taboo social behavior. Ecigs will go down in history as the only thing ever to be banned prior to knowing whether they might be harmful or not, everything else gets put into use until proven otherwise then its banned or regulated. And even if official reports came out tomorrow saying they are 100% safe, people would still find a way to object to them. Let's not try to kid ourselves here.

[BayAreaBC]

Tobacco aficionados can still use chewing tobacco. Snuff works too.

[Charles4515]

Beth, you say you're not sure why you find ecigs offensive. I explained in an earlier comment exactly why. You're offended by the behavior of someone recreationally inhaling something for pleasure. Has nothing to do with much else and it isn't about the children either, we have fruity flavored liquor and no one ever suggested banning alcohol with fruity flavors so it wouldn't appeal to kids. These are all just excuses. No one ever questions fumes and vapors from cleaning solutions, colognes, perfumes and a whole host of other sources if potentially dangerous vapors, no of course not because they aren't being used like a taboo social behavior. Ecigs will go down in history as the only thing ever to be banned prior to knowing whether they might be harmful or not, everything else gets put into use until proven otherwise then its banned or regulated. And even if official reports came out tomorrow saying they are 100% safe, people would still find a way to object to them. Let's not try to kid ourselves here.

 

 

 

Fumes from cleaning solutions and other pollutants have been questioned. And air pollution is regulated.

 

E- cigs should be regulated as they are delivering a drug. A highly addictive drug.

 

As far as safety it is prudent to regulate where they are allowed to be used until there is scientific proof about their safety.

 

 

 

 

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