Bad call hal

[Umbarger]

No I am not trying to stir up trouble. I was disappointed as were a lot of other people on this cruise.

 

Cruise critic is an open forum where one is able to ask questions, voice concerns and yes, complain (gasp)! Hence the name cruise critic. Sorry to upset all the HAL cheerleaders.

 

It would have been nice for the captain to take us by the lava flow. No the lava flow is not advertised on any HAL cruises. The location guide on board said we would be going past it. Any ship going to Hawaii should go past the lava flow. Our captain did not as the Northern route was 50 miles shorter. The captain on the Noordam thought it important enough for his pax to see it. I guess it depends on the captain and what they feel like doing.

 

Life goes on.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Aloha, HAL cheerleader here;)

 

I may be wrong, and someone may correct me, but until fairly recently, as in a couple of months ago, there wasn't actually much lava flowing into the ocean. The direction and amount of lava from Kilauea has been fluctuating, because an erupting volcano is not static. Not excusing anyone, just putting forward another possibility as to why the decision was made to not sail by the lava flow.

 

The Hawai'i Volcanoes National Park website posts periodic lava flow updates:

 

https://www.nps.gov/havo/planyourvisit/lava2.htm

 

 

Here's what we saw from the Zaandam some six years ago, as we left Kona on a southerly route on our way back out to the Pacific and Vancouver, B.C. We were far enough away that even with a zoom lens, this was the best my sister could capture with her camera. After a few tries, she simply put her camera away and enjoyed the view with just her eyes:)

 

https://twocruisingsisters.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/080405_lava_glow.jpg

[kazu]

No I am not trying to stir up trouble. I was disappointed as were a lot of other people on this cruise.

 

Cruise critic is an open forum where one is able to ask questions, voice concerns and yes, complain (gasp)! Hence the name cruise critic. Sorry to upset all the HAL cheerleaders.

 

It would have been nice for the captain to take us by the lava flow. No the lava flow is not advertised on any HAL cruises. The location guide on board said we would be going past it. Any ship going to Hawaii should go past the lava flow. Our captain did not as the Northern route was 50 miles shorter. The captain on the Noordam thought it important enough for his pax to see it. I guess it depends on the captain and what they feel like doing.

 

Life goes on.

 

It sounds like the Ports Guide wasn't amended, which is a shame. HAL tends to use generic port guides.

 

Now if it were in the On Location - that is a horse of a different colour. Not sure which it is since you are calling it the Location Guide, but I am guessing it is the port guide.

 

I saw your itinerary since I do Bon Voyage threads and post them and you were not scheduled to go past them. I am NOT a cheerleader and while we have had disappointments, the good has always out weighed the bad.

 

The point is, if you weren't scheduled to go, why be upset that it didn't happen.?

 

And you are absolutely right - CC is an open forum and that means, sadly, when people disagree they are also entitled to speak up. Life goes on and you are luckily cruising ;)

[WpgCruise]

Another definition of "Critic"

 

Critic | Define Critic at Dictionary.com

 

a person who tends too readily to make captious, trivial, or harsh judgments; faultfinder.

 

Often times it seems some are more interested in finding fault than exchanging information. Sad really.

[Bill B]

Another definition of "Critic"

 

Critic | Define Critic at Dictionary.com

 

a person who tends too readily to make captious, trivial, or harsh judgments; faultfinder.

 

Often times it seems some are more interested in finding fault than exchanging information. Sad really.

 

But, the name of the site isn't 'Cruise Information Exchange'.

[chengkp75]

Aloha, HAL cheerleader here;)

 

I may be wrong, and someone may correct me, but until fairly recently, as in a couple of months ago, there wasn't actually much lava flowing into the ocean. The direction and amount of lava from Kilauea has been fluctuating, because an erupting volcano is not static. Not excusing anyone, just putting forward another possibility as to why the decision was made to not sail by the lava flow.

 

The Hawai'i Volcanoes National Park website posts periodic lava flow updates:

 

https://www.nps.gov/havo/planyourvisit/lava2.htm

 

 

Here's what we saw from the Zaandam some six years ago, as we left Kona on a southerly route on our way back out to the Pacific and Vancouver, B.C. We were far enough away that even with a zoom lens, this was the best my sister could capture with her camera. After a few tries, she simply put her camera away and enjoyed the view with just her eyes:)

 

https://twocruisingsisters.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/080405_lava_glow.jpg

 

I took the Pride of Aloha past the lava flow weekly from 2004 to 2008, and we stopped and rotated the ship for an all around view. We even got closer than many other ships, to the point where we had to stop making fresh water due to the sulfur in the water, and we had to notify the bridge when it was time to get out of Dodge because the engines were overheating from the warm sea water caused by the lava.

 

Having said that, even at the best flow of the lava, I have to agree with this poster, and also with the PP who called it "embers from a barbeque" it really wasn't that impressive, it was mainly glows on the horizon, but I guess it counted for bragging rights when telling the sea stories of cruises past.

[RuthC]

When people start calling following the prescribed itinerary, on a timely schedule, a "bad call", then there is something radically wrong with expectations.

[rafinmd]

When people start calling following the prescribed itinerary, on a timely schedule, a "bad call", then there is something radically wrong with expectations.

 

I agree. I would call it closer to slander than criticism.

 

Roy

[LMaxwell]

We are not badgering the OP.. Did you read the Title of this thread?

 

The title said "Bad call Hal " with a thumbs down.. IMO the OP just wanted to stir up trouble!

 

Plenty of people are badgering OP.

 

OP had reasonable expectations, set by the company, and those expectations weren't met and no reasonable explanation was offered. Look at the criticisms of OP. Give me a break. Any one of us here would have expected to pass the lava flow, and if not to be told the reason why it was bypassed. See the posts just above my response - just the continued beating up of OP to protect the precious corporation, when even the corporation does not think it necessary to give a paying guest an explanation.

[RuthC]

Any one of us here would have expected to pass the lava flow, and if not to be told the reason why it was bypassed.

To expect to pass the lava flow, when it wasn't on the itinerary, would be considered "unreasonable" by any thinking person.

No further explanation was necessary.

 

Now, if the passengers had been told the ship was going to divert to pass the lava, and then did not do so, then and only then would they have a right to disappointment and an explanation.

[LMaxwell]

To expect to pass the lava flow, when it wasn't on the itinerary, would be considered "unreasonable" by any thinking person.

No further explanation was necessary.

 

Now, if the passengers had been told the ship was going to divert to pass the lava, and then did not do so, then and only then would they have a right to disappointment and an explanation.

 

If you search Holland America, Hawaii, Lava Flow you will get numerous hits relating to the ship passing the lava flow. Perhaps HAL should re-do a bunch of its advertising and advise third party review sites they no longer pass the lava flow.

[kazu]

Plenty of people are badgering OP.

 

OP had reasonable expectations, set by the company, and those expectations weren't met and no reasonable explanation was offered. Look at the criticisms of OP. Give me a break. Any one of us here would have expected to pass the lava flow, and if not to be told the reason why it was bypassed. See the posts just above my response - just the continued beating up of OP to protect the precious corporation, when even the corporation does not think it necessary to give a paying guest an explanation.

 

Sorry but you are going to have to speak for yourself - not the rest of us.

 

Having done a very similar itinerary, we had no expectation that we would pass by if we were on a northernly route. And there were no complaints.

[Fouremco]

If you search Holland America, Hawaii, Lava Flow you will get numerous hits relating to the ship passing the lava flow. Perhaps HAL should re-do a bunch of its advertising and advise third party review sites they no longer pass the lava flow.

A thorough search of the HAL website reveals that the only mention of the lava flow is in relation to shore excursions from Hilo.

 

Even the 17-Day Circle Tour of Hawaii clearly shows the Amsterdam as taking the northern route.

 

[WpgCruise]

Plenty of people are badgering OP.

 

OP had reasonable expectations, set by the company, and those expectations weren't met and no reasonable explanation was offered. Look at the criticisms of OP. Give me a break. Any one of us here would have expected to pass the lava flow, and if not to be told the reason why it was bypassed. See the posts just above my response - just the continued beating up of OP to protect the precious corporation, when even the corporation does not think it necessary to give a paying guest an explanation.

 

And how many places also not on the itinerary would you suggest the ship go ? Vancouver perhaps ?

 

Also appreciated if you don't suggest I am one of the "all of us" you quote. You can speak for yourself but you cross the line when you assume to speak for me.

[serendipity1499]

Plenty of people are badgering OP.

 

OP had reasonable expectations, set by the company, and those expectations weren't met and no reasonable explanation was offered. Look at the criticisms of OP. Give me a break. Any one of us here would have expected to pass the lava flow, and if not to be told the reason why it was bypassed. See the posts just above my response - just the continued beating up of OP to protect the precious corporation, when even the corporation does not think it necessary to give a paying guest an explanation.

 

Suggest you read all the posts & look at the schedule for this particular ship & cruise.. According to this itinerary & confirmed by a respected Travel Agent on this thread the ship was always scheduled to take the Northern route & not go past the lava flow.. Therefore, I don't understand why the OP would expect to have a deviation? :confused:

 

If you search Holland America, Hawaii, Lava Flow you will get numerous hits relating to the ship passing the lava flow. Perhaps HAL should re-do a bunch of its advertising and advise third party review sites they no longer pass the lava flow.

 

As Fouremco mentioned only on shore excursions out of Hilo is the Lava flow mentioned..

 

When Captains take a scheduled route, do you expect to be told why?:confused:

 

I'm not a HAL cheerleader, since we cruise on several different ships & lines.. As a matter of fact we've had the best service we've ever had on any ship on another cruise line with the exception of the Prinsendam service..

 

When HAL is clearly in the wrong I would be the first to mention it.. But in this case, the HAL Captain followed the prescribed route...You & the OP are calling them out for it..:rolleyes: And you both want an explanation as to why he followed the Scheduled Route! That's ludicrous! :rolleyes:

Edited October 15, 2016 by serendipity1499

[3rdGenCunarder]

Suggest you read all the posts & look at the schedule for this particular ship & cruise.. According to this itinerary & confirmed by a respected Travel Agent on this thread the ship was always scheduled to take the Northern route & not go past the lava flow.. Therefore, I don't understand why the OP would expect to have a deviation? :confused:

 

OP said the "Location guide" mentioned the lava flow. I don't know if that means the "explorer" port guide or the shore excursion brochure. If something distributed to the passengers (not the website) led them to believe they would see the lava flow, I can understand OP's disappointment. How many people know the route of their cruise? Yes, they probably can tell you what ports are on the itinerary, but I doubt many pay attention to exactly where the ship sails. I just looked at the "explorer" from my recent cruise, and the route map isn't in it. So unless the excursion guide had the map, how was OP supposed to know the exact route?

 

As for all the comments about the lava flow not being a big deal, OP didn't know that, as she didn't get to see it.

[LMaxwell]

And how many places also not on the itinerary would you suggest the ship go ? Vancouver perhaps ?

 

Also appreciated if you don't suggest I am one of the "all of us" you quote. You can speak for yourself but you cross the line when you assume to speak for me.

 

Read the many, many hyper-critical responses to OP. Some are just downright in mean spirits. If you don't feel you are among those, then do not feel offended by my "call it as I see it" mode. I did not single out any poster, rather a general theme.

[LMaxwell]

 

When Captains take a scheduled route, do you expect to be told why?:confused:

 

 

No, of course not.

 

But going by HAL's site and reviews of this and similar itineraries it is very easy to see why someone would believe they'd be taken past the lava flow.

 

Did you notice I said HAL should update their website and remove any notice of the lava flow if they aren't going near it? Not so difficult

[kazu]

No, of course not.

 

But going by HAL's site and reviews of this and similar itineraries it is very easy to see why someone would believe they'd be taken past the lava flow.

 

Did you notice I said HAL should update their website and remove any notice of the lava flow if they aren't going near it? Not so difficult

 

Oh come on, those are shore excursions which everyone should do or do privately.

 

I look at every itinerary I am doing and the map and know where I am going. No expectations for what is not included.

 

In any case, the horse is dead so let's now whip it anymore ;)

[Fouremco]

No, of course not.

 

But going by HAL's site and reviews of this and similar itineraries it is very easy to see why someone would believe they'd be taken past the lava flow.

 

Did you notice I said HAL should update their website and remove any notice of the lava flow if they aren't going near it? Not so difficult

Could you please point out exactly where on HAL's website there is anything remotely suggestive of the OP's or any other HAL cruise including the lava flow in the itinerary, other than as part of shore excursions. I've looked and found nothing, but perhaps I simply missed something. I assume that you can provide the reference(s).

[serendipity1499]

OP said the "Location guide" mentioned the lava flow. I don't know if that means the "explorer" port guide or the shore excursion brochure. If something distributed to the passengers (not the website) led them to believe they would see the lava flow, I can understand OP's disappointment. How many people know the route of their cruise? Yes, they probably can tell you what ports are on the itinerary, but I doubt many pay attention to exactly where the ship sails. I just looked at the "explorer" from my recent cruise, and the route map isn't in it. So unless the excursion guide had the map, how was OP supposed to know the exact route?

 

As for all the comments about the lava flow not being a big deal, OP didn't know that, as she didn't get to see it.[/QUOTE]

 

I bolded your last sentence, because the OP did get to see it a few weeks prior to her HAL cruise.. She goes on & on about how Celebrity did it.. The OP claims that there were a great many complaints from other Psgrs..

Apparently, a rumor was started on board & when that rumor did not come true, she & others were up in arms..Perhaps the OP knew who started the rumor, & repeated it & was then embarrassed because it was a false rumor..But we'll never know will we..

 

However, my main objection was the title of the OP's thread! And to add a thumbs down, IMO it is very inflammatory to & unfair to the Captain..

 

As Fouremco mentioned the reference to the Lava flow is only mentioned on shore excursions on HAL's WEB site....

 

Oh by the way there is a large map on board which we always pass on the way to the MDR on every HAL ship we've ever been on...It shows the exact route the ship will be taking..I always look at that map & know of many other Psgrs. who also look at that map..

[3rdGenCunarder]

Could you please point out exactly where on HAL's website there is anything remotely suggestive of the OP's or any other HAL cruise including the lava flow in the itinerary, other than as part of shore excursions. I've looked and found nothing, but perhaps I simply missed something. I assume that you can provide the reference(s).

 

It isn't to do with the website. OP said there was a reference to the lava flow in the "location guide," which sounds like the port guide in the cabin. My understanding is that's where the expectation came from.

 

As for looking at a posted map, I'm not sure if I've ever noticed one, and I'm probably not the only passenger who walks by it without looking at it.

[RuthC]

Location Guides in the cabin are somewhat generic, and cover a great many possibilities, not all of which appear on every cruise.

The closest anyone can come to "definitive" would be the itinerary description for the particular cruise one is looking at before booking. If the description of the cruise did not specify "scenic cruising" of the lave flow, or words to that effect, then any passenger who expected it was in error---not HAL.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Location Guides in the cabin are somewhat generic, and cover a great many possibilities, not all of which appear on every cruise.

The closest anyone can come to "definitive" would be the itinerary description for the particular cruise one is looking at before booking. If the description of the cruise did not specify "scenic cruising" of the lave flow, or words to that effect, then any passenger who expected it was in error---not HAL.

 

It's true that the location guides are very "canned." Except for the local maps, I find them pretty much useless. But people do form expectations from what they read, and on board that's more from the printed stuff they get than going back to the website. Yes, the OP was wrong to expect the "scenic cruising," but all I've been trying to say is that I understand the source of the expectation.

 

Here's another example. A friend was on QM2 in Boston on July 4, staying until early on the 5th. Although Cunard never said the famous Boston fireworks would be visible from the ship, the website and/or some of the promo emails had generic fireworks photos. When my friend asked me about the odds of seeing the fireworks, I knew enough about Boston to say, "not up close and personal, just from across the city." When she got back, she said passengers went up on the high decks to see the fireworks and were disappointed at what they could see. The next day, there was a lot of grumbling about not being able to see the fireworks well. People had expectations of what they would see and they didn't see what they expected.

[Fouremco]

It isn't to do with the website. OP said there was a reference to the lava flow in the "location guide," which sounds like the port guide in the cabin. My understanding is that's where the expectation came from.

 

As for looking at a posted map, I'm not sure if I've ever noticed one, and I'm probably not the only passenger who walks by it without looking at it.

My post most certainly was to do with the website. It was in direct response to LMaxwell stating "But going by HAL's site and reviews of this and similar itineraries it is very easy to see why someone would believe they'd be taken past the lava flow." As I said, I've gone to HAL's site and found nothing that would support that claim, and was inviting LMaxwell to share with us the related references.