BE AWARE - new UA Basic Economy Fares

[waterbug123]

Someone implied that these E fares were being offered on all DL routes now,

 

 

I didn't see anyone say that.

.

 

That's actually kind of funny because when I look back, YOU are the one who said it! Look back at Jagoffe's posts. He asked if it was being suggested that DL offered these fares on all routes and YOU said "I'm not suggesting it...industry experts are." Sounds pretty clear to me that you were indeed implying that DL offers E fares on all routes.

 

In any event, and as I said before, will the price of a non-basic ticket go up by 2020 as you've said? Who knows?! But there won't be any practical way to determine whether it's due to an expansion of basic economy fares or not. There are a zillion other reasons why fares could change up or down.... increased or decreased competition, general state of the economy, fuel prices, world events that affect tourism, and on and on. So worrying about whether or not the airfare to get to a particular cruise in 4 years is going to be $50 higher than a comparable fare would have cost this year is kind of a waste of energy.

[waterbug123]

In a way it was one-upsmanship eh? Just wait to see what American does. And then of course they all match each others degradations. Just look at how average seat pitch has steadily decreased, as each airline sees other airlines get away with taking away another half inch.

 

Gee, you make it sound like such a secret scam, LOL. ..."getting away with..." as though people don't know it's happening. The airlines aren't "getting away" with anything. People are willingly purchasing seats with less pitch (ex. Spirit) in exchange for a lower price. They may grumble about it, but if they are perfectly willing to put up with it, as evidenced by their purchasing habits.

[bUU]

That's actually kind of funny because when I look back, YOU are the one who said it!

Except I didn't say that. It perhaps is what you decided to argue against. There's a difference between "look at what Delta is doing", which is what I wrote, and "look at what Delta has done", which is what you and other replied to.

 

Sounds pretty clear to me that you were indeed implying that DL offers E fares on all routes.

Again, that's only because you didn't read the linked analysis and/or decided to argue against something I didn't write rather than what I actually did write. The only remaining question about this is how long do you want to beat the dead horse?

 

In any event, and as I said before, will the price of a non-basic ticket go up by 2020 as you've said?

What I said was that we would see deployment of e-fares beyond routes with which Delta competes with Spirit by December 2017. A couple of us have posited that this is all part of a progression by which the airlines will be demanding higher fares for the same product, but we didn't say by when. I don't know where you got this 2020 date from.

 

Who knows?! But there won't be any practical way to determine whether it's due to an expansion of basic economy fares or not.

That is where expert analysis comes in. That's why I defer on these matters to those folks who have a better sense about what's going on on the inside than my own gut feel. Are you suggesting that my own gut feel would be superior?

 

So worrying about whether or not the airfare to get to a particular cruise in 4 years is going to be $50 higher than a comparable fare would have cost this year is kind of a waste of energy.

Hardly. However, you're not obligated to participate.

[bUU]

Gee, you make it sound like such a secret scam, LOL. ..."getting away with..." as though people don't know it's happening.

What words would you prefer: "Have success with each successive step along this path." That seems to me like you'd have a much harder time understanding what I'm saying, wording it that way.

[FlyerTalker]

Some folks have the most interesting screen names.

[waterbug123]

 

What I said was that we would see deployment of e-fares beyond routes with which Delta competes with Spirit by December 2017. A couple of us have posited that this is all part of a progression by which the airlines will be demanding higher fares for the same product, but we didn't say by when. I don't know where you got this 2020 date from.

 

That is where expert analysis comes in. That's why I defer on these matters to those folks who have a better sense about what's going on on the inside than my own gut feel. Are you suggesting that my own gut feel would be superior?

 

2020? Once again, YOU are the one who mentioned planning cruises for 2019, 2020 and beyond, citing that as the apparent reason you are concerned about the future of airfare.

 

As for relying on experts or your own gut feeling, do as you please. Either way, there are a lot of factors to consider when comparing fares over the long term. If you want to convince yourself later that some increase was all based on one particular issue, feel free.

 

What words would you prefer: "Have success with each successive step along this path." That seems to me like you'd have a much harder time understanding what I'm saying, wording it that way.

 

Nope. It's just that saying they are "getting away with..." makes it sound like the airlines are secretly scamming people. They're not. They're offering new choices, people decide what's most important to them, and then purchase accordingly. Many have decided that low fares outrank everything else.

[bUU]

Some folks have the most interesting screen names.

It is a family name, and I will thank you for not making light of it. I have asked to have it changed because of rude comments some folks have made to me in the past due to my user name but that request was not granted. Edited December 1, 2016 by bicker

[bUU]

2020? Once again, YOU are the one who mentioned planning cruises for 2019, 2020 and beyond, citing that as the apparent reason you are concerned about the future of airfare.

So why not mention 2019? Your conversion of casual references into definitive points to argue against is becoming tiresome.

 

Nope. It's just that saying they are "getting away with..." makes it sound like the airlines are secretly scamming people.

No, not scamming. Exploiting consumer behaviors.

[waterbug123]

So why not mention 2019? Your conversion of casual references into definitive points to argue against is becoming tiresome.

 

No, not scamming. Exploiting consumer behaviors.

 

OMG, really? Ok, sorry. Please substitute 2019 for 2020 any time I mentioned it in reference to your 2019/2020 comment about future cruises/flights. :rolleyes:

And if you're tired of arguing, then stop. But I have no way of knowing what you are mentioning casually vs. what you are mentioning because it actually concerns you. You throw it out there, I assume it's for a reason. Have a great day!

[bUU]

And if you're tired of arguing, then stop.

I'm tired of arguing with you. I'm not tired of discussing the issue of air fares and the changing landscape of airline service. So let's stick to that.

[slidergirl]

I'm tired of arguing with you. I'm not tired of discussing the issue of air fares and the changing landscape of airline service. So let's stick to that.

 

Good (and appropriate) screen name ;)

 

My home airport has no LCC other than WN. But, DL is adding the E- fares to some of the routes from here. And, I've seen som E- fares on a few international routes, where there are no LCCs at all. I think some research was done to see what non-LCC competitive routes could use the E- fares based on some social geographic metrics. But, I'm sure the is company proprietary, so we'll not see it, so we can only speculate...

[Budget Queen]

Non Revs aren't given a seat assignment until all revenue pax are accommodated. in all my years of non reving on Delta, United, US Air/American, I have never seen a non rev assigned a seat and then denied boarding. If a flight is almost full, non revs won't get their seats until the very end of the boarding process and the GA is sure all other revenue pax are accommodated. I'm not saying it can't happen but if I were a revenue pax on an oversold flight I would not count on a non rev's seat. He/she won't have one if revenue pax still need a seats.

 

 

Not sure how you have nonreved on all the listed airlines- employment changing? but I HAVE seen nonrevs taken out of seat, with one time last year. Had happened to me, as well, a few years ago.

[rockdoctor]

And my prediction is......these United Basic Fares will never be sold.

[ducklite]

And my prediction is......these United Basic Fares will never be sold.

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree. I have a coworker who is all about the cheap weekend on the fly. She travels light (puts me to shame!) and could easily go for a couple days in the equivalent of a larger ladies handbag. She and her friend are always on the hunt for cheap fares to random places. They find these crazy $65 r/t fares and Priceline a hotel room for $30 a night, and explore a city they might not ever visit otherwise for a weekend. They went to Dayton last month and someplace in TX--Fort Stockton, maybe?--a few months ago.

 

There is definitely a market for these tickets, the biggest problem I see is the people who either don't read the fine print or think it doesn't apply to them, who has a meltdown when they find out all the added fees and limitations in their ticket.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SmoothFlying]

MANY, MANY people will tunnel on the lowest price....the rest is unimportant.

 

The bag HOG shows up with FIVE plus huge bags and DEMANDS they all can fit in the overhead and ask if, they have room, can he just move them to first class. After all, HE has a ticket, which means HE has to be treated like a KING, after all the customer's always RIGHT! And as too rules, they don't apply to HIM ! Yeaaaaa, it'll happen, I can see it even as we speak!

 

Mac

[pinotlover]

Since I fly UA often, the part of this equation I don't understand is, who is the airline trying to attract? I very rarely get on a flight anymore that isn't completely sold out or over booked. Airlines have consolidated routes, cut flights, and gone to smaller planes to reduce available seats. Is the plan now to increase flights and/or go to large planes, then have cheaper seats to fill them? Seems to me they might try filling those new larger planes at the old prices first.

 

Perhaps some of the cheapo airlines are hurting them on some routes. Just not personally interested in flying the seats that won't recline and playing this new game, but each to his own!

[SmoothFlying]

Not sure how you have nonreved on all the listed airlines- employment changing? but I HAVE seen nonrevs taken out of seat, with one time last year. Had happened to me, as well, a few years ago.

 

Non Revs do NOT get on until every paying passenger is boarded, that even includes paying passengers who are flying 'standby'. I worked for a major airline (one in the top ten) for 29 years and spent many a night in another city because there wasn't an empty seat to be found out of anywhere from 8 to 10 flights that day. So, if you planned to fly standby to a major city you pretty much had to go midweek and return the same or you MIGHT get a red eye out (10:30-11pm) if there aren't to many standby's ahead of you. Then when you retire your name goes to the bottom of the pile and active employees are boarded ahead of you. Oh well, it's definitely no way to plan around flying to a distant city for a cruise.

 

Mac

[ducklite]

Since I fly UA often, the part of this equation I don't understand is, who is the airline trying to attract? I very rarely get on a flight anymore that isn't completely sold out or over booked. Airlines have consolidated routes, cut flights, and gone to smaller planes to reduce available seats. Is the plan now to increase flights and/or go to large planes, then have cheaper seats to fill them? Seems to me they might try filling those new larger planes at the old prices first.

 

 

 

Perhaps some of the cheapo airlines are hurting them on some routes. Just not personally interested in flying the seats that won't recline and playing this new game, but each to his own!

 

 

 

I suspect they will be offered in flights and routes which normally aren't flying full. Friday late night Orlando to Denver for example. Everyone is coming into Orlando then, but not as many trying to leave at that time.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[purduemom1]

Not sure how you have nonreved on all the listed airlines- employment changing? but I HAVE seen nonrevs taken out of seat, with one time last year. Had happened to me, as well, a few years ago.

 

Employees of a regional that flies for several majors can non rev on those airlines subject to the contracts between the regional and each of the majors.

[purduemom1]

Non Revs do NOT get on until every paying passenger is boarded, that even includes paying passengers who are flying 'standby'. I worked for a major airline (one in the top ten) for 29 years and spent many a night in another city because there wasn't an empty seat to be found out of anywhere from 8 to 10 flights that day. So, if you planned to fly standby to a major city you pretty much had to go midweek and return the same or you MIGHT get a red eye out (10:30-11pm) if there aren't to many standby's ahead of you. Then when you retire your name goes to the bottom of the pile and active employees are boarded ahead of you. Oh well, it's definitely no way to plan around flying to a distant city for a cruise.

 

Mac

 

You are right-it does take a lot of planning and flexibility to non rev. My son flew for two regionals over a ten year period and I was almost always at the end of the list. Now that he flies for a major, my priority is much better. Have sometimes taken some interesting routes to get to my destination. I do not try and non rev when a cruise or other important event is at stake. There are those who would never non rev and those who see it as a way to travel to places they could never visit if they had to pay for a ticket.

[jagoffee]

And my prediction is......these United Basic Fares will never be sold.

 

You might want to check your "crystal ball" for a crack. Delta does it now and AA will be doing something similar.

 

Since I fly UA often, the part of this equation I don't understand is, who is the airline trying to attract? I very rarely get on a flight anymore that isn't completely sold out or over booked. Airlines have consolidated routes, cut flights, and gone to smaller planes to reduce available seats. Is the plan now to increase flights and/or go to large planes, then have cheaper seats to fill them? Seems to me they might try filling those new larger planes at the old prices first.

 

Perhaps some of the cheapo airlines are hurting them on some routes. Just not personally interested in flying the seats that won't recline and playing this new game, but each to his own!

 

Although it seems odd, but United believes the average ticket prices will increase as a result of this change. The idea is that most of us will never book the no frills Economy and will pay more for what we now get "free". The airlines will now compete with the no frills line with only some of their seats while not lowering the price for rest of us. I predict many of us will pay more on average. I might fly Southwest, but I will never fly Spirit again.

 

Personally I think those of us who have lifetime status due to our previous flying are getting hurt the most.

[ducklite]

The bag HOG shows up with FIVE plus huge bags and DEMANDS they all can fit in the overhead and ask if, they have room, can he just move them to first class. After all, HE has a ticket, which means HE has to be treated like a KING, after all the customer's always RIGHT! And as too rules, they don't apply to HIM ! Yeaaaaa, it'll happen, I can see it even as we speak!

 

 

 

Mac

 

 

 

I have seen massive crackdowns at the gate lately. The most I see people able to bring on is a third item when it is very small--a lunch tote with a couple sandwiches or a bag from Hudson News with a copy of People and a bottle of water.

 

I will say that they seem to look the other way to an extent with first class passengers, particularly if that cabin isn't full. But even then it's a smaller third bag, like a laptop bag that only holds a laptop plus a crossbody and a 22" rolling bag. Frankly most carriers shut the first class bins after first class boards, so unless you are flying first and someone takes all the space (I have never seen it happen in over a million miles of flying) it's really no one's business how many bags a first class passenger drags on.

 

One other thing to note, a bag containing a nebulizer or CPAP or such doesn't count against baggage allowance--in cabin or checked. It's quite possible a third bag someone is carrying has one of these devices in it.

[rockdoctor]

Actually I agree with Ducklite. From my experience with Frontier, which has different ticket classes with different bag privileges, boarding is slowed down when the people you are talking about have to pay or check their excess bags. Boarding already starts 40 minutes prior to flight time and uses ever minute of that.

[Budget Queen]

Non Revs do NOT get on until every paying passenger is boarded, that even includes paying passengers who are flying 'standby'. I worked for a major airline (one in the top ten) for 29 years and spent many a night in another city because there wasn't an empty seat to be found out of anywhere from 8 to 10 flights that day. So, if you planned to fly standby to a major city you pretty much had to go midweek and return the same or you MIGHT get a red eye out (10:30-11pm) if there aren't to many standby's ahead of you. Then when you retire your name goes to the bottom of the pile and active employees are boarded ahead of you. Oh well, it's definitely no way to plan around flying to a distant city for a cruise.

 

Mac

 

Oh sorry, I must have been hallucinating again, when the nonrev who boarded after me, was in his seat, and the gate agent told him he had to vacate his seat for a revenue passenger.

 

I happen to fly very successfully to a cruise, just about every month. :)

[waterbug123]

Since I fly UA often, the part of this equation I don't understand is, who is the airline trying to attract?

 

The same people Delta is attracting with their Basic E fares.... the many leisure travelers who don't give a crap about anything but getting the absolute cheapest fare. They complain about lack of legroom, they complain about lack of meals, they complain about crappy flight times and on and on and on, but in the end they continue to book the cheapest fares they can find.