Nieuw Amsterdam Group Booking - HUGE - Eliminates fixed dining and cuts open seating

[jhsocal]

OlsSalt, There was a thread last Summer,on cruise with large group,others were limited to Open Seating 6:30 or sooner. However, they could still dine in the MDR.

[styles27]

My husband reminded me of our one and only cruise on RCCL's Oasis...(5000+ passenger capacity) where we too had a very large (800-900 people) group sailing with us.

 

The reason I hadn't remembered is because we were very fortunate that group didn't negatively impact our cruise. I can only think of one or two nights we noticed a lounge or bar had a "private function" sign out front and we couldn't go in.

 

Not a big deal on a ship that huge there are plenty of other places to go have a drink.

 

If this particular group ate together, we didn't know about it because again, this ship is like a small city they have enough venues and dining rooms/restaurants to accomodate groups that size.

 

 

That's one big difference between HAL's ships and the other lines that have these huge mega liners.

 

The "floating cities" as I like to call them, can easily absorb a group of 1000, HAL clearly can't if it means they have to tell nearly half the ship they can only eat at the MDR between 5:15-6.

 

When you have a group of 900-1200 on a ship whose passenger capacity is barely over 2000 of course it will negatively impact the passengers that are not in the group.

 

 

I find it hard to imagine that anybody at HAL hasn't thought of this.

 

 

One reason we like HAL is because we prefer the size of their ships, however after reading this we will be very careful booking with them in the future.

As I said earlier, we are sailing Eurodam May 6th and there is a small group listed...if it were a group of 1000 I'd be changing our reservation.

 

 

Thank you Liz (OP) for bringing this to our attention. I can completely understand your disappointment with the way this was handled by HAL, I would have felt the same.

[OlsSalt]

As to the question of my "prior cruise expections" :

Quoted from http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-onboard/Dining.action?tabName=Main%20Dining%20Room&WT.ac=Dining_MainDining

(the bolding/underline are my addition for the topic being discussed here)

 

On crisp white linen, course after course arrives. Behind the scenes, our master chefs have brought flavors to perfection. For an elegant breakfast, leisurely lunch or unforgettable five-course dinners designed by Master Chef Rudi Sodamin, the main dining room is your destination for elegant dining aboard.

As You Wish® Dining

Flexibility is the hallmark of our As You Wish® dining program, and in the main Dining Room, it’s your choice of a traditional pre-set seating and dining time or a flexible open schedule.

One level of the two-tiered restaurant will offer a flexible/open dining service from 5:15 to 9 p.m. daily, and the other will host two seatings, an early seating at 5:45 p.m. and main seating at 8 p.m. Pre-set dining times are subject to change based on itinerary. Guests selecting flexible open seating may make reservations daily during a cruise up to 4 p.m. or simply walk up anytime during dining hours.

 

We had our pre-set dining time change on one itinerary to 7:45 instead of 8pm. This is a minor adjustment and not a failed expectation.

 

Interesting use of mitigating language here ....based upon "itinerary", and not based upon this particular "itinerary" was sold out to a very large group so we are going to dump on you.

 

Nope, this does not count for prior "notice" HAL, to totally eliminate one of your marketed dining options entirely.

[RocketMan275]

 

Why bother suing? Just don't take any more HAL cruises.

 

Take the temperature of the room here. Long time HAL loyalists have found this arbitrary action taken by HAL management on this particular cruise to be unacceptable and worrisome. The fine print absolves HAL from virtually any liability for anything, which is typical in these types of one-sided "contracts of adhesion". But a material decline in expected on-board service levels, with no prior notice, is a deal killer.

 

The more reports we get that are similar to this past experience on the NA will be HAL's call. The fact we now have to research on our own to avoid this possibility on future cruises is tiresome and not what should be expected from the regular cruise ship passenger. Once HAL gets a reputation for being a "large group" cruise ship, regular bookings I suspect will continue to drop.

 

Just like Carnival has the reputation for being a "noisy, drunk party ship, even though individual passengers have had perfectly nice experiences on Carnival ships regardless.

 

That being said, if Seattle thinks the days of HAL being a regular passenger ship are over and their emphasis will now be large groups that is perfectly fine for them because they are the bean counters and we old time HAL loyalists may well go the way of the dodo bird. I can appreciate that. If we no longer "pay our way", I wouldn't blame HAL for getting rid of us by act, word or deed. And the numbers of four and five star Mariner loyalist discounts may well be a good thing, gone bad for HAL.

 

All the cruise lines do this.

All the cruise lines have similar contracts.

Fewer than 2% of those who cruise even know cruise critic exists.

The chances of a thread on this subject affecting revenue is minimal.

Your only options are to cruise or not to cruise.

[OlsSalt]

 

All the cruise lines do this.

All the cruise lines have similar contracts.

Fewer than 2% of those who cruise even know cruise critic exists.

The chances of a thread on this subject affecting revenue is minimal.

Your only options are to cruise or not to cruise.

 

Well Lordy be, I have never in all my years and nearing Gold Medallion status have ever heard of a HAL ship doing what just happened in last cruise. Ship happens anyway. I accept that. But this was well beyond the realm of gratuitous change.

 

Once burned twice shy will be my new motto. I am not trying to "harm HAL" if it vote with my own feet; I am only protecting my own discretionary vacation dollars for little old me. HAL will not even notice and probably be relieved they no longer have to hand our the five star perks to at least two passengers.

 

But you say it is all just a free-for-all pot luck, right. And the sole choice is cruise or don't cruise? Hmmmmmmm ....I'll have to look into that. But one thing at this time, is I will never choose the Eurodam because she looks most likely to be the large group ship of choice. Caveat emptor.

[bUU]

Once burned twice shy will be my new motto.

And again, that applies to everything, not just cruises.

 

I am not trying to "harm HAL" if it vote with my own feet; I am only protecting my own discretionary vacation dollars for little old me.

In the context of sharing your perspective, though, what would be superlatively valuable is going that extra mile: "Because of Situation ABC, I'm switching from Holland America to Cruise Line XYZ, because Cruise Line XYZ provides me everything Holland America does, for the same price, but doesn't do Situation ABC." That would resonate like a church bell. Heck, I'd be on the phone to switch my reservation in a New York minute.

[styles27]

 

Well Lordy be, I have never in all my years and nearing Gold Medallion status have ever heard of a HAL ship doing what just happened in last cruise. Ship happens anyway. I accept that. But this was well beyond the realm of gratuitous change.

 

Once burned twice shy will be my new motto. I am not trying to "harm HAL" if it vote with my own feet; I am only protecting my own discretionary vacation dollars for little old me. HAL will not even notice and probably be relieved they no longer have to hand our the five star perks to at least two passengers.

 

But you say it is all just a free-for-all pot luck, right. And the sole choice is cruise or don't cruise? Hmmmmmmm ....I'll have to look into that. But one thing at this time, is I will never choose the Eurodam because she looks most likely to be the large group ship of choice. Caveat emptor.

 

 

May have to add Nieuw Amsterdam to that list...there are 8 inspiration cruises listed on there.

 

The Eurodam cruise that left this past Saturday also has an Inspiration group on it...will be very interested to hear if they did the same thing with the dining room hours.

[RocketMan275]

[/b]

 

 

May have to add Nieuw Amsterdam to that list...there are 8 inspiration cruises listed on there.

 

The Eurodam cruise that left this past Saturday also has an Inspiration group on it...will be very interested to hear if they did the same thing with the dining room hours.

 

Every cruise line does group cruises.

No cruise line will tell you if there is a group on board a specific cruise.

This forum has a monthly listing of groups and charters on HAL ships.

No other forum has a monthly listing of groups and charters.

Your chances of being on a HAL cruise with a large group is significantly less than any other cruise line because of the monthly listing.

 

The cruise lines aren't going to change their policies so all we can do is deal with it.

[OlsSalt]

And again, that applies to everything, not just cruises.

 

In the context of sharing your perspective, though, what would be superlatively valuable is going that extra mile: "Because of Situation ABC, I'm switching from Holland America to Cruise Line XYZ, because Cruise Line XYZ provides me everything Holland America does, for the same price, but doesn't do Situation ABC." That would resonate like a church bell. Heck, I'd be on the phone to switch my reservation in a New York minute.

 

You really cannot state "my perspective". So let's take made-up stuff out of the discussion. Who said they are switching to XYZ from ABC? My perspective if treatment becomes common practice is to choose another vacation venue, that allows one retain more personal control over up front expectation.

 

HAL can solve this simply by disclosing upfront there will also be a very large group which can materially impact regular passenger expectations. Then it becomes a fair choice for the consumer to make. Pot luck is not going to cut it.

[bUU]

You really cannot state "my perspective".

You misunderstood my meaning. Perhaps it would be clearer for me to have written, "In the context OF YOU sharing your perspective..." My intent was to have you share the better options, the options that don't suffer from the problems you see.

 

Who said they are switching to XYZ from ABC? My perspective if treatment becomes common practice is to choose another vacation venue, that allows one retain more personal control over up front expectation.

Precisely what I was wondering about... the alternative (and presumably superior) options. However, what you've said here raises another question: How does switching to another option afford you control over any expectations? How do we ensure that we aren't jumping from the frying pan into the fire? I suspect that it is that realization that keeps a lot of multi star Mariners coming back, that the grass is not nearly greener.

 

HAL can solve this simply by disclosing upfront there will also be a very large group which can materially impact regular passenger expectations.

There have been several posts in this thread offering you possible reasons why they don't/won't.

 

Then it becomes a fair choice for the consumer to make. Pot luck is not going to cut it.

Or it will. One or the other. Time will tell.

 

 

 

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[Lizzie68]

What it all boils down to, in simplistic terms, is discrimination.

Regular fare-paying passengers not part of a group do not get the same amenities as the group.

They are not even allowed to keep their chosen dining time but are bumped by the group being given preferential treatment.

Take an example of certain areas being closed off to other passengers - areas that are not reserved by those paying a higher fare (I am thinking of suite passengers on another cruise line who have certain roped off areas at entertainment venues) - there is no excuse for not allowing all passengers to use a venue, especially the Crows Nest, for example.

Nothing is as stated in the advertising for that cruise. Too many exclusions.

If it happened to me to the degree of some of examples posted, I would be demanding some compensation for limiting my dining times and closing off certain areas of the ship to me and having a negative effect on my vacation.

Discrimination.

[bUU]

Discrimination.

There is loads of discrimination in cruising - many different kinds of privilege and preferential treatment. Suite passengers, frequent passengers, those who book excursions with the cruise line instead of private vendors, Catholics, etc. There is nothing wrong with discrimination when it isn't an instance of immoral oppression.

 

 

 

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[jhsocal]

On a cruise on this size ship without a large group, you would never have 1900 people trying to dine in MDR on the same night. Any idea how many they could handle each night in MDR? Suspect HAL has made studies on the typical number that try to dine there per night. Trying to analyze why such drastic action was required on this cruise. Perhaps, management added those on early set seating to the large number in the group and decided they could not handle many more. Definitely, not defending the decision, trying to "second guess" the motivation. Make any sense?

[Liz54]

I have now cooled down somewhat, and carefully crafted a letter to the president. We shall see!

[3rdGenCunarder]

I have now cooled down somewhat, and carefully crafted a letter to the president. We shall see!

 

Please let us know what sort of response you get. I hope that many people from your cruise are writing to complain. There ought to be a tipping point at which a group size requires a full charter--and it sounds like your cruise was well beyond what that group size SHOULD be.

[erewhon]

I have now cooled down somewhat, and carefully crafted a letter to the president. We shall see!

 

Pleased that you have written to the president, please let us know the response that you receive.

[Liz54]

Will do, I have heard about many people who plan to write and hope they do, Two reviews have been posted under reviews here that mention it, and I have seem it mentioned in other threads, so they do seem to have a problem. I sent by snail mail so this may take awhile, but I will certainly report back.

[Boytjie]

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Is there any way you can suppress this text?

[sharpgirl]

I'll be checking my upcoming HAL fiord junket for a big group. Sounds awful and we had a similar shut out in the MDR aboard the Caribbean Princess last August--won't be sailing Princess again as a result.

 

 

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[robandlil]

I think the only valid complaint of the OP is that they booked, confirmed and were enjoying late seating, and then got displaced. Seating is confirmed in my contract and I expect it to be honored.

This was not an emergency (like a flood) that shut down the dining room, this was a cruise line deciding that some passengers are so important that others are kicked out of there seat. Totally unacceptable and I hope they were ultimately compensated.

Imagine you're in a theater, or restaurant on land and a celebrity walks in. Can you be told to get up and give your seat to them?

Conversely, I have no sympathy for the complaint about crowds or boorish behavior. That has become so frequent in our society, that it's almost an expectation when jamming 2000 people in an enclosed area.

[RocketMan275]

I think the only valid complaint of the OP is that they booked, confirmed and were enjoying late seating, and then got displaced. Seating is confirmed in my contract and I expect it to be honored.

This was not an emergency (like a flood) that shut down the dining room, this was a cruise line deciding that some passengers are so important that others are kicked out of there seat. Totally unacceptable and I hope they were ultimately compensated.

Imagine you're in a theater, or restaurant on land and a celebrity walks in. Can you be told to get up and give your seat to them?

Conversely, I have no sympathy for the complaint about crowds or boorish behavior. That has become so frequent in our society, that it's almost an expectation when jamming 2000 people in an enclosed area.

 

Please post that portion of your contract that "confirms" your seating.

 

The contract does not "confirm" seating. Pay special attention to Paragraph 7. The first sentence reads: "Except as otherwise provided, Carrier may, for any reason, without prior notice, cancel the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey, and/or Land Trip(s); deviate from the scheduled ports of call, route and timetable; call or omit to call at any port or place or cancel or modify any activity on or off the Ship; ...".

[bUU]

Please post that portion of your contract that "confirms" your seating.

 

The contract does not "confirm" seating. Pay special attention to Paragraph 7. The first sentence reads: "Except as otherwise provided, Carrier may, for any reason, without prior notice, cancel the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey, and/or Land Trip(s); deviate from the scheduled ports of call, route and timetable; call or omit to call at any port or place or cancel or modify any activity on or off the Ship; ...".

Good point. These kinds of things are often big surprises to folks. For example a lot of folks think that when they book a nonstop flight that the airline is committing to actually getting them there on that nonstop flight, within a certain out of time before or after the scheduled time, but that's not the case. The airline is just committing to get the passenger from one place to another on a certain day. They can change the equipment, switch you from a jet to a turboprop, route you through one or two connections, etc., And all of that is completely in compliance with the contract you made with them. None of that actually serves as foundation for your claiming a refund, or for claiming any kind of restitution for the changes. And the cruise contract is pretty much the same, effectively just committing to take you on a boat from the port of embarkation to the port of debarkation, in a cabin pretty much like the one you booked. They can cancel ports or reorder them if they think that's the right thing to do based on their professional judgment. And they can change many aspects of many of the services that are part of what the cruise ship offers again without being obligated to offer refunds or making any other kind of compensation.

 

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[iancal]

Never mind all the ifs, ands, or buts. And the contract of passage details.

 

We have been cruising for along time. We would not be pleased if we were told that our

hours of dining in the MDR were so restricted/eliminated.

 

Nothing else matters. Our expectations would not be met. We would not be happy. We would vote with our feet and with our wallets.

 

We would not care about any soppy excuses or excusing the cruise line by way of 'fine print'

 

Some cruisers may find this action by HAL reasonable or acceptable. We do not, nor do I think that the vast majority of cruisers would.

 

Why make excuses? Call it out for what it is. Unacceptable.

[RocketMan275]

Never mind all the ifs, ands, or buts. And the contract of passage details.

 

We have been cruising for along time. We would not be pleased if we were told that our

hours of dining in the MDR were so restricted/eliminated.

 

Nothing else matters. Our expectations would not be met. We would not be happy. We would vote with our feet and with our wallets.

 

We would not care about any soppy excuses or excusing the cruise line by way of 'fine print'

 

Some cruisers may find this action by HAL reasonable or acceptable. We do not, nor do I think that the vast majority of cruisers would.

 

Why make excuses? Call it out for what it is. Unacceptable.

 

Not making excuses. I've stated many times that I think that the policies for charter/groups for all the cruise lines is unacceptable. However, we will never get those policies changed until we recognize how limited our "contract" rights really are.

[iancal]

Who reads the contract? Does anyone expect the contract to be changed? I certainly don't.