Credit Card Charged in error

[SteveH2508]

I'm not affected by this personally - but - it seems that the Data Protection Principles may have been 'stretched'. Has anyone complained to the Information Commissioner's Office?

 

https://ico.org.uk/concerns/

[insanemagnet]

P&O (and to be fair holiday companies in general) apply credit card charges well in excess of what the transaction actually costs them

 

Legally they are only allowed to charge what it costs them. The problem is enforcement falls to Trading Standards, and they don't.

 

There are European Union rules coming in a couple of years time which will ban all credit card surcharges, but...

[Marmaduke]

What happens if I refuse to register a card (either debit or credit) when I check in for my cruise next month? No doubt it causes P & some grief with extra admin and monitoring of your on board spend. I have some OBC for this cruise and the way I feel at the moment I don't intend to spend above this amount.

[Two 2 Tango]

I lost £1500, OK not the end of the world for me; but why are people saying they should get a good will gesture of OBC? It would be much better if they gave a 10% refund to our bank account as they have all our details. I for one would not welcome OBC as I have no intention of letting Carnival handle any of my hard earned money again. There are plenty of other lines who will give you a better cruise and take care of your details. I have a lot of loyalty with P&O but they can keep it. I know it sounds a bit bitter but if a high street shop did the same with your money and bank details, then ask yourself the questions, would you shop there again and would you take your business elsewhere?

Edited May 26, 2017 by Two 2 Tango
spelling mistake

[Mysticalmother]

I lost £1500, OK not the end of the world for me; but why are people saying they should get a good will gesture of OBC? It would be much better if they gave a 10% refund to our bank account as they have all our details. I for one would not welcome OBC as I have no intention of letting Carnival handle any of my hard earned money again. There are plenty of other lines who will give you a better cruise and take care of your details. I have a lot of loyalty with P&O but they can keep it. I know it sounds a bit bitter but if a high street shop did the same with your money and bank details, then ask yourself the questions, would you shop there again and would you take your business elsewhere?

 

Whilst I can understand your feelings, I would not be at all surprised if this happened to another cruise line or holiday company in the future as it could happen with any of the card processing companies. And whatever you think it was NOT P &O who was to blame, it is the card processing company. Agree P&O are responsible for managing the fallout...which by some counts has not been well done.

[ToadOfToadHall]

Cunard "held" £3600 last weekend on my credit card. It's now been returned this morning.

 

I just thought I'd say so that others know that money is now being returned.

[Eglesbrech]

Legally they are only allowed to charge what it costs them. The problem is enforcement falls to Trading Standards, and they don't.

 

There are European Union rules coming in a couple of years time which will ban all credit card surcharges, but...

 

Yes I read an article about this and the actual cost of a transaction is supposed to be between 0.3 and 0.6 maximum, not 1.5 or even 2.5 as some other holiday company's charge.

 

The European protection would have been nice but at it will not apply perhaps the time has come to start poking trading standards into doing their job.

[milamber]

Cunard "held" £3600 last weekend on my credit card. It's now been returned this morning.

 

I just thought I'd say so that others know that money is now being returned.

 

I think it's far more likely that the hold simply expired. My bank said that they had had no contact whatsoever from Carnival regarding this. My hold is still there - hoping it will go overnight.

[ToadOfToadHall]

I think it's far more likely that the hold simply expired. My bank said that they had had no contact whatsoever from Carnival regarding this. My hold is still there - hoping it will go overnight.

 

That might well be true; i.e. it's not been reserved, it's just expired. And by the fact that it's taken at least 5 days I think we can assume that Carnival did not go to the trouble of doing anything about it, they just the standard "hold" procedure take it's course.

[mandylennon]

Emailed Paul Ludlow as suggested on facebook this morning, no response. Spoke to my bank who said the money held pending was due to be credited back to my account at 7.00 p.m. tonight, As scheduled by Elavon. Will wait and see.

[tring]

Legally they are only allowed to charge what it costs them. The problem is enforcement falls to Trading Standards, and they don't.

 

There are European Union rules coming in a couple of years time which will ban all credit card surcharges, but...

 

There is no criminal law, so cannot be enforced by Trading Standards. If there is an overcharge, and it could be proved, then individuals could try claiming any overcharge back via civil courts, which has to be done by individuals (with representation if they choose).

 

There may be other possible controls, e.g. by The Financial Ombudsman.

 

A lot of fiction is written on the net.

[insanemagnet]

There is no criminal law, so cannot be enforced by Trading Standards.

 

The Consumer Rights (PaymentSurcharges) Regulations 2012

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/452405/BIS-15-343-BIS-payment-surcharges-guidance.pdf - Page 17 - The enforcers with power to enforce the Regulations under Part 8 include theCompetition and Markets Authority, trading standards officers and the Departmentfor Enterprise, Trade and Investment in Northern Ireland, as well as certain sectorregulators.

[Two 2 Tango]

Whilst I can understand your feelings, I would not be at all surprised if this happened to another cruise line or holiday company in the future as it could happen with any of the card processing companies. And whatever you think it was NOT P &O who was to blame, it is the card processing company. Agree P&O are responsible for managing the fallout...which by some counts has not been well done.

 

Just a thought why did P&O ask me about how i found the booking for my forthcoming cruise 2 days prior to this problem, the holiday they were talking about was the one I had had in March long gone; seems a bit funny? My contract was with P&O if they decide to give my bank details to a third party they are to blame. As I said in the original quote if it was a high street store who had done this to you would you use them again. Honest replies please and not just because you have only sailed with Carnival and don't want to lose your loyalty. P &O are not all that special, though I choose not to publish my cruising details it is very varied including Carnival lines and many others.

[tring]

The Consumer Rights (PaymentSurcharges) Regulations 2012

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/452405/BIS-15-343-BIS-payment-surcharges-guidance.pdf - Page 17 - The enforcers with power to enforce the Regulations under Part 8 include theCompetition and Markets Authority, trading standards officers and the Departmentfor Enterprise, Trade and Investment in Northern Ireland, as well as certain sectorregulators.

 

These amended regulations (from your link), taking account of guidance produced by the EU in 2014, do not refer to a criminal offence as I had previously said. The summary will tell you it is in relation to civil law.

 

If you are adamant that this is about people not doing a job they are supposed to do, I suggest you take the matter up with your local councillor. You may also like to ask your local prospective MP as well as the councillor, why resources are not being provided for this to be persued, for each company who may be in breach of the regulations. Many sections of local authorities have lost an extremely large amount of their staff (way over half and much more in some cases), if not in what is currently considered priority services.

 

I am sure there will be people who read this thread who may be interested in any response you get, should you wish to post the details here, though I am not convinced all will have the same priorities for public funding as you do. I am not making any comment as to my view as that is not the point. As l do not normally come into the P&O section of this site, chances are I will not see any response you get, should you decide to do something other than just continue to complain here.

 

If you only read the summary of the regulations, you will see that one thing that they do is to "Enable consumers, if necessary, to bring a private claim to recover any such excess surcharge" as I had mentioned in my initial posting. Another effect is to "Give enforcers the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the Regulations", which does not make a political decision by a local council to provide that service or a decision by local or national government to fund such a service.

Edited May 26, 2017 by tring

[the english lady]

I lost £1500, OK not the end of the world for me; but why are people saying they should get a good will gesture of OBC? It would be much better if they gave a 10% refund to our bank account as they have all our details. I for one would not welcome OBC as I have no intention of letting Carnival handle any of my hard earned money again. There are plenty of other lines who will give you a better cruise and take care of your details. I have a lot of loyalty with P&O but they can keep it. I know it sounds a bit bitter but if a high street shop did the same with your money and bank details, then ask yourself the questions, would you shop there again and would you take your business elsewhere?

Ok so you find another cruise line not under the Carnival banner (do you know all their brands). How would you know who their 3rd party money company is. If you spoke to somebody in a call centre to book the cruise would they know who their company uses. The problem lay with the 3rd party. All cruise lines would use them..so you would have to do some digging before booking another cruise.

[Mysticalmother]

Just a thought why did P&O ask me about how i found the booking for my forthcoming cruise 2 days prior to this problem, the holiday they were talking about was the one I had had in March long gone; seems a bit funny? My contract was with P&O if they decide to give my bank details to a third party they are to blame. As I said in the original quote if it was a high street store who had done this to you would you use them again. Honest replies please and not just because you have only sailed with Carnival and don't want to lose your loyalty. P &O are not all that special, though I choose not to publish my cruising details it is very varied including Carnival lines and many others.

 

I still do not agree that P &O are to "blame" ...they have actually done nothing wrong in this whole fiasco up until the point the money was taken or charged....that is wholly down to the card processor. As I said earlier, they may not have handled it well since, but that is a separate issue.

And as far as passing your details to a third party is concerned for the processing of the payment...well, you agreed to this in your contract with P &O ...it is in the small print.....

I suspect the question about the booking process is a coincidence, as I had a similar email, but a few weeks earlier.

I am not sticking up for P &O (and of course it actually was a Carnival wide problem) but being fair....and yes, I was affected!

[Two 2 Tango]

I still do not agree that P &O are to "blame" ...they have actually done nothing wrong in this whole fiasco up until the point the money was taken or charged....that is wholly down to the card processor. As I said earlier, they may not have handled it well since, but that is a separate issue.

And as far as passing your details to a third party is concerned for the processing of the payment...well, you agreed to this in your contract with P &O ...it is in the small print.....

I suspect the question about the booking process is a coincidence, as I had a similar email, but a few weeks earlier.

I am not sticking up for P &O (and of course it actually was a Carnival wide problem) but being fair....and yes, I was affected!

 

Just asking a question or two if you can be honest, did you honestly know that they were using a third party to deal with your details or did you read up on it late? and the previously posed question if it was a high street store that treated your bank details in that way would you use them again? In the end your contract is with Carnival what they do with your booking and money is their responsibility, you may inadvertently agree to it in the small print it really makes little difference to the fact that your contract is with Carnival and it is them who have the contract with the third party. The action of Carnival is that "they" should have refunded the money with immediate effect and then perused the third party for their own reimbursement.

Just as a footnote to this if you could please just point out where I have agreed to a third party having my bank details I would be very grateful, as all I can see is that my contract was with Carnival PLC.

Booking T&C https://www.pocruises.com/Global/pdf/poc-booking-conditions.pdf

Edited May 27, 2017 by Two 2 Tango
Extra info

[Mysticalmother]

Just asking a question or two if you can be honest, did you honestly know that they were using a third party to deal with your details or did you read up on it late? and the previously posed question if it was a high street store that treated your bank details in that way would you use them again? In the end your contract is with Carnival what they do with your booking and money is their responsibility, you may inadvertently agree to it in the small print it really makes little difference to the fact that your contract is with Carnival and it is them who have the contract with the third party. The action of Carnival is that "they" should have refunded the money with immediate effect and then perused the third party for their own reimbursement.

Just as a footnote to this if you could please just point out where I have agreed to a third party having my bank details I would be very grateful, as all I can see is that my contract was with Carnival PLC.

Booking T&C https://www.pocruises.com/Global/pdf/poc-booking-conditions.pdf

 

Being totally honest....the answer to your question is...well sort of! But that is partly because of my background which is of legal/banking/ retail/ financial. (Oh...and IT as well....) I now work (well Volunteer actually) in retail and I know that we have a company that processes our credit/debit card payments. But I did have to look it up on P&Os website to check after the fiasco. I have posted the link here....

 

http://www.pocruises.com/legal/privacy/

 

Now that is not written within the booking conditions per se....but if you look at "The Contract" (in the booking conditions) ...at the start of paragraph 2 it refers you to anything else in their brochure or website. So , from a legal point of view they have you by the short and curlies!

I am not saying I agree with it, or that it is right ...and is certainly not transparent....but as for several years part of my job was arguing the meaning of/interpreting specific bits of legislation, I know that this is effectively the get out clause. I would be amazed if as many as 1% of passengers read all the small print before booking. I tend to read a lot of it...not all...but thats because I have been caught (on something totally unrelated ) before for not reading the small print.

Sorry...probably bored the pant s off you all by now! But hope that is helpful, in a perverse way.

 

By the same token, Carnival should I agree have made arrangments to refund all the monies with immediate effect...but how would they do this? They dont have the mechanism. They have to use their payment processing company! I guess it has taken them some time to actually identify all the people affected...that can be borne put by the fact it has happened (the refunds that is ) over a period of days.

[milamber]

 

By the same token, Carnival should I agree have made arrangments to refund all the monies with immediate effect...but how would they do this? They dont have the mechanism. They have to use their payment processing company! I guess it has taken them some time to actually identify all the people affected...that can be borne put by the fact it has happened (the refunds that is ) over a period of days.

 

What has actually happened, for the vast majority of customers, is that Carnival have done nothing and simply waited for the holds on the accounts to expire. The only action they have taken is where an actual refund needed to be processed, which was a small minority of those affected. My bank said the hold on the account would expire exactly 7 days after the debit, 10pm yesterday, if Carnival did nothing to speed the process. The hold expired at exactly 10pm last night.

[Two 2 Tango]

Being totally honest....the answer to your question is...well sort of! But that is partly because of my background which is of legal/banking/ retail/ financial. (Oh...and IT as well....) I now work (well Volunteer actually) in retail and I know that we have a company that processes our credit/debit card payments. But I did have to look it up on P&Os website to check after the fiasco. I have posted the link here....

 

http://www.pocruises.com/legal/privacy/

 

Now that is not written within the booking conditions per se....but if you look at "The Contract" (in the booking conditions) ...at the start of paragraph 2 it refers you to anything else in their brochure or website. So , from a legal point of view they have you by the short and curlies!

I am not saying I agree with it, or that it is right ...and is certainly not transparent....but as for several years part of my job was arguing the meaning of/interpreting specific bits of legislation, I know that this is effectively the get out clause. I would be amazed if as many as 1% of passengers read all the small print before booking. I tend to read a lot of it...not all...but thats because I have been caught (on something totally unrelated ) before for not reading the small print.

Sorry...probably bored the pant s off you all by now! But hope that is helpful, in a perverse way.

 

By the same token, Carnival should I agree have made arrangments to refund all the monies with immediate effect...but how would they do this? They dont have the mechanism. They have to use their payment processing company! I guess it has taken them some time to actually identify all the people affected...that can be borne put by the fact it has happened (the refunds that is ) over a period of days.

 

Well thanks for that but it would seem it is not in the booking contract after all, and I think the majority of affected people were under the impression that Carnival did not use a third party. when you say they don't have the mechanism, they seem to do a good job taking your money and giving a receipt in the name of Carnival PLC so this would seem to be quite deceitful. They now need to be up front with their customers then at least they have the choice of releasing their bank details. In the light of recent scams people using Carnival have to be aware that their details can get stolen from not only Carnival but also third party agents. On a personal basis I will not be using them again as their are other options available, but if I had a booking pending with them I would expect something substantial for the way loyal customers have been treated; so I guess it's up to you guys who are still putting up with them to get together and twist some arm up their backs. Believe me if you don't use them for twelve months they will soon be ringing you up begging you to go with them, as they did with me on the fateful cruise (with an offer you can't refuse).

Anyway on a lighter note going off your profile name "Mysticalmother why did you not see this coming and warn us all:D

[Mysticalmother]

:'):'):');p:') !

[Mysticalmother]

Well thanks for that but it would seem it is not in the booking contract after all, and I think the majority of affected people were under the impression that Carnival did not use a third party.

 

The problem is that it is....as the contract includes not only what is written under booking conditions, but anything and everything in the brochure or website. Its a convoluted use of words, but you will probably find the same exists with most if not all holiday companies. It does for e.g on all the RCL brands

 

 

And I agree that most people would have been under the impression that they don't use a third party...but that is solely because they wont have read the small print...

 

 

And regarding your final sentence...I blame the Rioja....;p

[Eglesbrech]

What has actually happened, for the vast majority of customers, is that Carnival have done nothing and simply waited for the holds on the accounts to expire. The only action they have taken is where an actual refund needed to be processed, which was a small minority of those affected. My bank said the hold on the account would expire exactly 7 days after the debit, 10pm yesterday, if Carnival did nothing to speed the process. The hold expired at exactly 10pm last night.

 

Our bank did not appear to have had any communication from P&O / their payment agent either.

 

For anyone who has contacted them, have you as yet had the courtesy of a reply to P&O customer services?

[verynervous]

After two emails and several phone calls I finally spoke to a living person on Friday. She said that they had not received any communication from me. She also said that my booking reference was not mine! However they still took payment for my cruise twice. They have paid me back the illegal payment they took without my permission.

[mandylennon]

As was mentioned on facebook, I emailed Paul Ludlow last Friday morning. Received a call late afternoon from customer services, he kept saying how sorry they were and that another email would be sent out Tuesday on how to get any charges refunded. We said that we were lucky and could cover the additional fee and what else would they be offering, he said wait for the email. Spoke to our bank they didn't know anything about it but when we asked them to go and check they did and said the money would be returned that evening at 7 pm. It wasn't but it was back in account the next morning. Will wait and see what the email says.