Dog on ship

[nyllrap]

Interesting! I personally have no problem with anyone's service dog (or otherwise) as long as the dog doesn't bother me. But I don't really understand why a person cannot be asked to provide any proof. I don't think a person should have to tell their disability, but simply show something that proves the animal is a service dog. Shouldn't be so difficult.

 

 

 

 

 

Here is the key section from the ADA:

 

Here are two links worth reading:

https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Royal Caribbean has made the business decision to not contest persons showing up for a cruise with an "Emotional Support Animal." RCI, as most businesses, go out of their way to avoid major arguments. We have all seen people holding cute little animals and we can probably imagine what would happen if RCI refused to board the animal. Screaming and yelling might be a mild way to explain it.

But keep this in mind because it is important!

The ADA is an American Law and does not apply on a foreign flagged ship nor at any of the ports that are visited!

Almost all ports/countries have restrictions on bringing animals in and most will not allow animals ashore without previous arrangements.

 

 

In case you are interested we do not take our service dog on cruises because she is so pretty and everyone wants to pet her. (You should never pet a service animal wearing a service vest!) She is very protective of my wife and more than one person has been scared nearly to death when the dog growled or barked suddenly when someone approached my wife in a threatening manor.

[ThirstyCruiser]

Just off the Enchantment, a "service" dog crapped on the carpet in the casino.

I had a C-note on the Don't Pass Line - Fido paid for that night's drinks. Good doggie!

[mets07]

Are there designated staterooms for people who have dogs with them or they can be in any stateroom?

 

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[Clarea]

Are there designated staterooms for people who have dogs with them or they can be in any stateroom?

 

Any stateroom.

[Texas Jake]

A Delta passenger was bitten by an PTSD emotional support dog about 2 weeks ago. Every owner should be required to carry insurance for the damage by an emotional support animal. At the very least, current pet immunizations records should be provided before travelling with the animal.

[sea shepherd]

I was on the Harmony in Dec, and there was a dog in the dining room. He had his own seat and they were feeding him at the table. That was one of three that was on the ship that week.

 

 

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[bUU]

In my opinion airlines, cruise lines, trains, hotels, etc. should require something from a doctor and there should be a requirement of documentation that a certified trainer has performed specific and specialized training that enables the animal to provide the assistance a doctor said was needed.

 

Gosh, no. The last thing the airlines, cruise lines, trains, hotels, etc., need is to get sorted for inadvertently exposing people's personal medical info. Better for the airlines, cruise lines, trains, hotels, etc. to take people at their word as long as they take responsibility for what the animal does.

 

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[bUU]

Train man-2,

You are incorrect about ships under foreign flags are not regulated by ADA. There was a court case against Carnival, registered in the Bahamas, who lost the case because Carnival said because of the foreign flag they don't have to follow ADA and the courts ruled against Carnival because they sail in to American ports.

 

 

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You beat me to it. Our markets, our rules. If the cruise line does like it let them try to sell their cruises without transacting the purchase in the United States.

 

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[squadron]

If different people were carrying the dog around, it is unlikely it was a true service dog. It is unfortunate that some people circumvent and abuse the rules.

 

Agreed . I have no objections to a certified service dog with proper jacket but certainly object to someone who is pulling a scam.

[naughtybuoy]

I was on the Harmony in Dec, and there was a dog in the dining room. He had his own seat and they were feeding him at the table. That was one of three that was on the ship that week.

 

 

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That's how you know the dog isn't a service dog. A real service dog would be on the floor. They're working animals; allowing it to sit at the table is distracting it from doing the job it was trained to do.

[squadron]

Which is perfectly acceptable. Problem is too many of the so called emotional support dogs nowadays are bogus. If I stepped in dog poo in my pricey loafers or worse yet bare feet I would not be happy.

 

There is an area on ship that service dogs use and an owner of a certified dog would know where to take the dog at it's scheduled normal time.

[scorpluvsdolphins]

Unusual for a service dog and unfortunate for people in the casino and probably distressing for the owner.

 

 

 

The cruiser was not blind. That is why I put service in quotes. I don't know why the dog was on the ship. I don't think it was my place, business to ask.

 

 

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[Kowale]

Like it or not, if you say you use a service dog, guess what? That's that. No one can ask for your papers. No local government can require you to register the animal. The law (US law, anyway) doesn’t require you to justify your service animal’s presence with documentation, or by disclosing medical specifics; all anyone can ask you is whether it’s in fact required because of a disability, and what task it’s trained to do. This means that anyone, theoretically, could claim their dog is a service animal.

 

Of course, there are some restrictions. A service animal that flips out on duty can get you both tossed out on the street, and the ADA won’t object. A server doesn't have to bring a snack or water bowl when you're dining out with your dog. And while local governments can't compel you to register your service animal as a service animal, they can require licensing, vaccinations, and all the other basics of animal ownership.

 

Just because hotels and movie theaters can’t ask you to show paperwork for your service animal doesn’t mean plenty of websites out there won’t be happy to send you some anyway. Certain of these simply offer free-of-charge documentation that may make your use of a service animal less hassle-ridden — surely not every maître d’ out there has gotten the relevant memo, after all. But others might charge you $60 or so for a badge, vest, or photo ID, none of which are required.

 

Emotional support animals are a little different - mostly because they do not necessarily have to be a dog. Cats, ferrets, miniature horse, etc. In the case of an ESA, you may require a note from your doctor (or social worker, or some other professional) certifying that you have a need for the animal.

[firegal2539]

Using the term CERTIFIED dog is a questionable term. I went online to five different places, and there were over 1,000 of them, and here is what it said about certifying your dog.

 

"We expect and hope that you will use this registry as intended and in a responsible and respectful manner. Registration is conducted under the honor system and we are not required to verify any disability or review any documentation to verify any disability, nor does any law require you to register, any individual found to abuse this registry will be expelled from the registry. The registry is not intended to be a certification process and we do not judge the proficiency of our registrants in any way, and nor would that be necessary under the law. Of course, we recognize that under the law you are allowed to train your own animal and we can not be responsible or liable for the actions of dog owners or their dogs either online or offline. Please obey all laws as they apply to your situation."

So in other words you can go to the first five I looked up and register your dog to be certified as a service dog or an emotional support dog. You do have to pay for the certificate or identification card but they don't check you or the dog to see if it really is trained as a service dog. What a sad situation the USA is in when you can just lie, pay $50 and get your dog certified so you can take it with you wherever you want.

I am sorry this is so sad to me. Believe me I have a mini dachshund that I dearly love but when I am cruising he stays with friends who have two dogs and I know he is well taken care of.

When i saw that toy poodle in a dress, shoes and a hat, with a doggie diaper on and he was being carried every where, that was it, I had to stop the man and ask why he was on the ship. I was told he was an emotional support dog, sure he was, because you would have been an emotional wreck if you had to leave the dog at home when you went on your cruise.

Shame on these people!!!!:mad:

[grapau27]

You can only open it if they are emotional support worms. :D

Sure someone will come out with that one.

[grapau27]

Which is perfectly acceptable. Problem is too many of the so called emotional support dogs nowadays are bogus. If I stepped in dog poo in my pricey loafers or worse yet bare feet I would not be happy.

I agree,to many people bending the rules.

My wife takes a cuddly toy monkey and me.

[grapau27]

Agreed . I have no objections to a certified service dog with proper jacket but certainly object to someone who is pulling a scam.

100% agree with you.

[grapau27]

The cruiser was not blind. That is why I put service in quotes. I don't know why the dog was on the ship. I don't think it was my place, business to ask.

 

 

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I feel immensely for people who have disabilities and anything that can make life better for them i totally agree with.

[chengkp75]

Train man-2,

You are incorrect about ships under foreign flags are not regulated by ADA. There was a court case against Carnival, registered in the Bahamas, who lost the case because Carnival said because of the foreign flag they don't have to follow ADA and the courts ruled against Carnival because they sail in to American ports.

 

 

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You beat me to it. Our markets, our rules. If the cruise line does like it let them try to sell their cruises without transacting the purchase in the United States.

 

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Actually, the deciding case law is Spector v. NCL, in which the Supreme Court ruled that while foreign flag cruise ships may not discriminate against the disabled, and must provide accessible cabins, and must provide "reasonable" retrofits to older ships to allow accessibility, it also stated that if accessibility required major alterations to the ship's design, then the area was not required to be made accessible (I believe Princess has some lounges that are accessed only by stairs), and that SOLAS trumps ADA when it comes to accessibility.

 

Further, and more to the point of this discussion regarding service dogs, the SCOTUS ruled that "As a matter of international comity, a clear statement of congressional intent is necessary before a general statutory requirement can interfere with matters that concern a foreign-flag vessel’s internal affairs and operations."

The court is saying that while the ship must meet some requirements of the ADA with regards to structural accessibility, its internal policies and operations do not need to meet the ADA. The SCOTUS stated that Congress needs to amend the ADA to clearly state that it applies to foreign flag cruise vessels specifically in order for the ADA to be fully followed. This means that, in fact, if CLIA came up with a "service animal code of conduct" just like they have for "guest conduct", it would be completely legal, as this is an internal operational policy of the ship. This code of conduct could restrict service animals to certain areas, it could require certain behavior of the owner (like not feeding at the table, which is not allowed even by the ADA), and allow for removal of the passenger and animal for certain behavior (not being properly potty trained).

The Carnival case was a settlement with the DOJ, and I am not sure it would withstand a review by the SCOTUS, based on the previous Spector case, and even this settlement deals far more with the number of cabins available as accessible, booking procedures, and the like, and not with onboard ADA policies.

[chengkp75]

The ADA requires a certain amount of "good behavior" in service animals, and as someone else pointed out, if the owner or animal don't meet those requirements, then the animal can be asked to leave the premises. The ADA states that there are two acceptable locations for service animals: the floor, or being carried in the owner's arms or a chest carrier. Not on furniture. Service dogs should be completely house broken, and most are trained to only relieve themselves on a command, and only when that command is given when the animal is on a particular surface (saying "busy" while on grass, for instance).

[bUU]

Our markets, our rules. If the cruise line does like it let them try to sell their cruises without transacting the purchase in the United States.

Actually, ...

We have had this discussion before. You have your perspective, shaped by your knowledge of ships, and I and others have our perspective shaped by our knowledge of US regulatory compliance.

 

The prevailing law in commercial transactions in the United States is US law, and it always will be. US law itself allows for flexibility due to circumstances, the same flexibility on ships that is afforded on buses, but in doing so it still is the prevailing law.

 

And by the way, we see that, in this case, it is applied.

 

I agree,to many people bending the rules.

What would make this any different?

 

What floors me is how many people would apply rules one way when they are the observer and a different way when they are the actor.

Edited June 23, 2017 by bUU

[A&L_Ont]

What floors me is how many people would apply rules one way when they are the observer and a different way when they are the actor.

 

This is the same with anything in life, such as speeding as an example. I'm surprised that you are floored.

[bUU]

This is the same with anything in life, such as speeding as an example.

Yes. I meant that in general.

 

And such inconsistency within one's values will always floor me.

 

 

 

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[grapau27]

We have had this discussion before. You have your perspective, shaped by your knowledge of ships, and I and others have our perspective shaped by our knowledge of US regulatory compliance.

 

The prevailing law in commercial transactions in the United States is US law, and it always will be. US law itself allows for flexibility due to circumstances, the same flexibility on ships that is afforded on buses, but in doing so it still is the prevailing law.

 

And by the way, we see that, in this case, it is applied.

 

What would make this any different?

 

What floors me is how many people would apply rules one way when they are the observer and a different way when they are the actor.

We always adhere to the rules then we are not embarrassed by being told we are doing wrong.

[bUU]

We always adhere to the rules then we are not embarrassed by being told we are doing wrong.

I'm not impressed with embarrassment. What about principle?

 

 

 

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