Are we buying "a pig in a poke"?

[TeeRick]

I’m a new cruiser and have been starting to peruse the Celebrity and RCI threads as I plan my future trips because my first cruise was on MSC Seaside last week and it was an effing disaster. (So obviously never trying MSC again)

 

That said, we learn from our mistakes, and those of others (like me in this scenario), so I’m just going to throw out some new concerns for those sailing on the early Edge sailings: how do you know that the toilets will work? (Ours didn’t; nor did many others.) What about the ventilation systems? (Pretty sure something died in ours...)

 

By the time the early Seaside reviews came in, it was too late for those sailing on the subsequent sailings to cancel.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Wow that is awful for a spanking new ship! I have noticed that the initial Seaside reviews have been pretty bad. Hopefully you will have a much better experience on Celebrity or RCCL! A question- Did the toilet not work for the entire cruise or did it get clogged a couple of times? I'm asking because your response will indicate a design or engineering problem vs the very frequent problem of blocked lines due to other passenger's flushing prohibited items. New ships do have sea trials and inaugural cruises to work out the flaws and kinks. But if the staff is new or inexperienced, or understaffed, that will ruin a cruise for sure. Not sure what happened to Seaside. Hopefully Edge will not have these issues - it is being built in a well-respected shipyard.

Edited January 20, 2018 by TeeRick
typo

[lucyglucose]

Wow that is awful for a spanking new ship! I have noticed that the initial Seaside reviews have been pretty bad. Hopefully you will have a much better experience on Celebrity or RCCL! A question- Did the toilet not work for the entire cruise or did it get clogged a couple of times? I'm asking because your response will indicate a design or engineering problem vs the very frequent problem of blocked lines due to other passenger's flushing prohibited items. New ships do have sea trials and inaugural cruises to work out the flaws and kinks. But if the staff is new or inexperienced, or understaffed, that will ruin a cruise for sure. Not sure what happened to Seaside. Hopefully Edge will not have these issues - it is being built in a well-respected shipyard.

 

 

 

Although some passengers had blockage and overflow issues, we were always careful to not put too much TP in and never had that happen. Our problem was with the flush mechanism; nothing happened when we pushed the flush button... and then it eventually flushed after a variable delay. On the first day we chalked it up as quirky but on the second day it stopped flushing altogether. It took so long to get it fixed that day (sat with urine in it all day!) that when it started to have a delay again on day three, we were basically afraid to use it, because what if it stopped working again but this time with other material floating in there?! All day long we went back and fourth with them trying to get a definitive fix and encountered responses that ranged from indifference to rudeness and even frank aggression (accused of clogging it, accused of lying that it was broken, told that it was supposed to have a delay, etc.) They suddenly decided to change our rooms around 9PM, which left us exhausted the next day. The new room had a terrible smell (like an airplane bathroom and rotting fish) coming in through the vent and we were woken each night just before midnight by cleaning on the deck above us.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[lucyglucose]

Although some passengers had blockage and overflow issues, we were always careful to not put too much TP in and never had that happen. Our problem was with the flush mechanism; nothing happened when we pushed the flush button... and then it eventually flushed after a variable delay. On the first day we chalked it up as quirky but on the second day it stopped flushing altogether. It took so long to get it fixed that day (sat with urine in it all day!) that when it started to have a delay again on day three, we were basically afraid to use it, because what if it stopped working again but this time with other material floating in there?! All day long we went back and fourth with them trying to get a definitive fix and encountered responses that ranged from indifference to rudeness and even frank aggression (accused of clogging it, accused of lying that it was broken, told that it was supposed to have a delay, etc.) They suddenly decided to change our rooms around 9PM, which left us exhausted the next day. The new room had a terrible smell (like an airplane bathroom and rotting fish) coming in through the vent and we were woken each night just before midnight by cleaning on the deck above us.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

 

... and perhaps more importantly, our cabin stewart told us that we were not the only cabin experiencing this flush delay issue. So, definitely some engineering problem.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[golfrette]

Don't worry, the reveal will be any day now.

They have their world class IT department working on it!

Lol... lol.... world class IT. Good one

[TeeRick]

... and perhaps more importantly, our cabin stewart told us that we were not the only cabin experiencing this flush delay issue. So, definitely some engineering problem.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

So sorry that you had these issues. Hopefully you will try cruising again on a line other than MSC. If you are apprehensive about sailing a newly built ship again (like Edge), try Celebrity S-Class ships next. They are wonderful.

[hvsteve1]

Reminds me of my cruise on the Mississippi Queen when she was very new. One crew member told me that on the inaugural cruise the toilet vacuum system was malfunctioning and, if too many people flushed at the same time, all the toilets on the boat flushed at once with a roar.:eek:

[mdcelebrity]

It is all guesswork at this point, but as far a dining is concerned I would not be too worried. Celebrity likes a homogeneous fleet. Much of what they have announced so far is "moving the chairs" vis-a-vis S-class (e..g., Silhouette):

The Porch ---> Raw-Bar-On-Five (with the Orange Elevator [OE] providing al fresco dining, at times)

Lawn Club Grill ---> Garden Grill/Dining on the Edge (with the OE providing al fresco dining, at times)

Cafe al Bacio ---> Eden Cafe

Tuscan Grill(room-with-view)/Qsine(quirky eats) ---> Eden Restaurant

Luminae ---> Luminae

Mast Cafe --->Mast Cafe

 

World Class Bar ---> Eden Bar

 

Looking at the remaining empty spaces, one could reasonably assume:

Edge Dining Room Decks 3/4 Aft (just like S-class)

Blu Deck 5 (just like S-class)

 

Spa Forward of Solarium with Spa Cafe in Solarium

 

Theatre Decks 4, etc. Forward

Sky Lounge Upper Deck Forward

Casino on Deck 4

Martini and Ensemble Lounges on Deck 5

 

Wishful thinking:

With Tuscan/Qsine moving to Eden, an additional Specialty Restaurant like a real Steak House (perhaps a Don Shula Restaurant, since she sails out of FL?)

 

Cozy Spaces:

I would not count on that! They already announced Guitarist-in-a-tree (Garden) and Eden. Don't forget silent disco.

Their marketing (to affluent 30-somethings) so far does not connote "relaxing spaces, nice cozy ( non atrium) music venues for jazz, guitaists, piano player and classical music.".

 

Wishful thinking:

Now that there is a dedicated Retreat (i.e., Suite-Class) lounge, could Michael's Club revert back to a cabaret setting? They will need Eden-istas (whatever they call them) for the Eden Xperience, so could the other performers --- especially singers --- do their thing at Michael's (all this instead of a Production Show. I don't think anyone would miss Topper)?

 

Would expect the first year of Edge would be for the adventurous, rather than those who want a classic cruise experience.

 

As stated, no inside info here just random musings, on a chilly Maryland afternoon.

Additional thoughts:

Deck 2 Tender Boarding ---> Deck 2 Tender Boarding via OE

Sky Conference 1&2 ---> The Meeting Place

 

Reasonable Assumptions:

Ocean View Cafe (OVC) Pool Deck Aft (assume will be like the rest of the fleet, nothing "new" or "special")

Murano Deck 5

 

Ensemble Lounge Deck 5

Martini Bar Deck 4

 

Wishful Thinking:

No games in the pool (e.g., volleyball)

 

Concern:

They are advertising -- in the Meeting Place reveal, etc. -- the some of the spaces will be available for private events like company functions, wedding receptions, parties, etc. Not a problem for the Meeting Space or even the Destination Gateway (on non-tendering days), but Eden is specifically mentioned. Does this mean that Eden would not be available to "the rest of us" at certain times?

[ABoatNerd]

Thanks to Ronbe65 and mdcelebrity for your analyses. Spot on.

 

Without an inside and outside forward viewing area that is readily available for every guest, this ship would not be considered by my family and friends.

 

They all cruise to be with the ocean and to relax watching the waves.

 

It seems to them that this new ship is designed to keep guests distracted with gagets and gimmicks and activities to relieve you of your money. - ie the inward looking design.

 

The Celebrity fixation on suite class has also turned them off.

 

An interesting observation is the comments for the new Virgin line. Many posters have indicated they do not want a class focused product and they want alot of outdoor space.

 

Hoping that Virgin provides such a product because Celebrity is not.

[mdcelebrity]

Thanks to Ronbe65 and mdcelebrity for your analyses. Spot on.

 

Without an inside and outside forward viewing area that is readily available for every guest, this ship would not be considered by my family and friends.

 

They all cruise to be with the ocean and to relax watching the waves.

 

It seems to them that this new ship is designed to keep guests distracted with gagets and gimmicks and activities to relieve you of your money. - ie the inward looking design.

 

The Celebrity fixation on suite class has also turned them off.

 

An interesting observation is the comments for the new Virgin line. Many posters have indicated they do not want a class focused product and they want alot of outdoor space.

 

Hoping that Virgin provides such a product because Celebrity is not.

You are right: most commodity cruise ships have lost their style and are littered with gimmicks: Orange Elevator (OE) and asymetrical butt on X, all those water slides on the other lines, that Arm thing on Royal, ...

It is ironic that Celebrity marketing(?) touts an outward (seaward) focus but seems to do a lot to minimize that experience, at least for regular, non-suite, sailors. Even the OE on the pool deck seems to have no purpose (at least not yet defined) other than to block the view from the Cabanas.

 

On a side note: has anyone noticed that the "balcony" on the Infinite Balcony cabins is smaller (41 sq. ft) than on an S-class ship (53++ sq. ft)? Did I read the specs correctly? Due to the cabin configuration with the bi-fold doors the mini-balcony might not be so noticeable?

 

So glad you mentioned Virgin Voyages. Isn't that the *real* reveal to which a lot of folks are looking forward?

Will Sir Richard be able to provide an elegant ocean-going ship with a classic and beautiful profile, yet including [genuine] modern amenities?

[TeeRick]

There are plenty of information revealed by the cruise line.

In addition to what was printed, some reading between the lines will help as always.

 

The standard cabin will be as narrow as it was on the Solstice.

lucyglusose, it will be same as what you had (if you were in the balcony cabin), with the same small awkward closet across the cabin and

.

 

 

 

The renderings do not show shelves over the beds. May they appear finally?

Possibly.

But we cannot say that information is not available. It is available.

 

The difference: a folding door between the cabin and the sheltered balcony (the novelty).

 

Proper spa?

No. Never on anything under RCI umbrella, nor on the Edge.

 

Promenade deck?

It's publised: forget it.

 

Forward viewing deck?

It's published: forget it.

 

Suite privileges?

More than ever before.

The only question I have for myself: if the forward observation lounge will be public access (not revealed).

This uncertainty is the only straw that separates (attention lucyglucose!) the Edge from collapsing into the MSC level of cruise life standards (5% of Patricians and 95% of Plebians).

 

Even if the Edge won't collapse into two-class ship format, the hypertrophic attention to the privileged categories has been noticed by many. That could be a reason for cancelling for some, as it's obvious that the suite bells and whistles are growing at the expence of the product available to the majority of passengers.

 

Common public areas (left after the suite perks) - will be styled this way, or that way - does it matter? With no doubt, the interiors will be nice and shiny.

 

Traditional dining option - of course it will be.

Flexible dining - yes it will be. There is no reason for not to be.

 

Food quality - no concerns. There will be what we have now, not worse.

 

What is a single most important factor that defines the class of the ship?

The speed of a convoy is defined by the speed of the slowest ship.

Take the cheapest cabin and see what kind of cruise life is available to this cabin category.

That will tell you what class of the ship this is.

Following this formula, the major concern related to the Edge is reduction in class (vs the Solstice class).

 

This answers the question: to book or not ot book (I am speaking for myself).

If you are ready to shell out a few $$$ for a suite and a less than stellar itinerary - yes.

Otherwise - no.

 

You refer to Patricians, Plebians and priviledged. Funny- Did you cruise in the Roman Empire? Did you really spout all this analysis to come to the point that you want cruise ships to be a egalitarian vs a business serving all types of customers? This type of argument has been repeated about Edge since day 1. Back and forth. Endless. Go back and look at the dozens of other threads on this. The truly rich and famous Patricians probably have their own yachts and don't bother with Celebrity Cruises.

[PTMary]

You refer to Patricians, Plebians and priviledged. Funny- Did you cruise in the Roman Empire? Did you really spout all this analysis to come to the point that you want cruise ships to be a egalitarian vs a business serving all types of customers? This type of argument has been repeated about Edge since day 1. Back and forth. Endless. Go back and look at the dozens of other threads on this. The truly rich and famous Patricians probably have their own yachts and don't bother with Celebrity Cruises.

 

Not surprising that you would defend the move towards class systems on newer ships with more and more areas dedicated to suite guests, and dismiss posters that have concerns about this trend. Your posting history clearly indicates you typically book suites, so your defense is quite self serving.

 

I can almost always tell who books suites by the fact that they defend these new trends as a good thing "for everybody" when in reality it only is a good thing for themselves. :rolleyes:

[C-Dragons]

Not surprising that you would defend the move towards class systems on newer ships with more and more areas dedicated to suite guests, and dismiss posters that have concerns about this trend. Your posting history clearly indicates you typically book suites, so your defense is quite self serving.

 

I can almost always tell who books suites by the fact that they defend these new trends as a good thing "for everybody" when in reality it only is a good thing for themselves. :rolleyes:

 

Wow... your remarks seem pretty pejorative, imo.

“Class systems”, as you say, have been around since ships started booking paying passengers, nothing new here.

[sloopsailor]

Wow... your remarks seem pretty pejorative, imo.

“Class systems”, as you say, have been around since ships started booking paying passengers, nothing new here.

 

While "nothing new", what is different is the trend of dedicating a higher percentage of the available space for various private areas for exclusive use of suite guests. On a ship with a limited amount of square footage, any space that is created that is off limits to the majority of the passengers is a step backwards - at least for the non-suite passengers. For suite passengers, more is better, and increased allocation of space is welcomed. Not pejorative at all. Just common human nature. We all want more, not less, no matter what "class" we are pigeonholed into.

 

A question to people who book suites - would you welcome ships in the future with fewer suite amenities than is currently the norm today? Would you be satisfied if all that was available on new ships were standard cabins and common areas for all passengers?

 

I didn't think so! ;)

[hcat]

The EDGE threads have been very informative and fun...

 

We will eventually see more of the areas and learn what is only for suites, meetings, weddings, etc. Looking forward to BLU reveal....

 

Hope we do not get bogged down in debates that might fit better on the main CC board & attract wider viewing and more opinions.,.....just sayin'

[TeeRick]

Not surprising that you would defend the move towards class systems on newer ships with more and more areas dedicated to suite guests, and dismiss posters that have concerns about this trend. Your posting history clearly indicates you typically book suites, so your defense is quite self serving.

 

I can almost always tell who books suites by the fact that they defend these new trends as a good thing "for everybody" when in reality it only is a good thing for themselves. :rolleyes:

 

Thanks for taking the time to evaluate my posting history. Maybe you might then explain to me why I constantly have to have a "defense" at all because I occasionally book suites? You and some others talk about "classes" and I think about the differences as pricing categories, not classes. I think I have always stated that new trends on ships reflect the current and projected market dynamics needed for the cruise industry to grow.

[rosewood jo]

Here’s her pull out.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[CruisingTheWaves]

It is all guesswork at this point, but as far a dining is concerned I would not be too worried. Celebrity likes a homogeneous fleet. Much of what they have announced so far is "moving the chairs" vis-a-vis S-class (e..g., Silhouette):

The Porch ---> Raw-Bar-On-Five (with the Orange Elevator [OE] providing al fresco dining, at times)

Lawn Club Grill ---> Garden Grill/Dining on the Edge (with the OE providing al fresco dining, at times)

Cafe al Bacio ---> Eden Cafe

Tuscan Grill(room-with-view)/Qsine(quirky eats) ---> Eden Restaurant

Luminae ---> Luminae

Mast Cafe --->Mast Cafe

 

World Class Bar ---> Eden Bar

 

Looking at the remaining empty spaces, one could reasonably assume:

Edge Dining Room Decks 3/4 Aft (just like S-class)

Blu Deck 5 (just like S-class)

 

Spa Forward of Solarium with Spa Cafe in Solarium

 

Theatre Decks 4, etc. Forward

Sky Lounge Upper Deck Forward

Casino on Deck 4

Martini and Ensemble Lounges on Deck 5

 

Wishful thinking:

With Tuscan/Qsine moving to Eden, an additional Specialty Restaurant like a real Steak House (perhaps a Don Shula Restaurant, since she sails out of FL?)

 

Cozy Spaces:

I would not count on that! They already announced Guitarist-in-a-tree (Garden) and Eden. Don't forget silent disco.

Their marketing (to affluent 30-somethings) so far does not connote "relaxing spaces, nice cozy ( non atrium) music venues for jazz, guitaists, piano player and classical music.".

 

Wishful thinking:

Now that there is a dedicated Retreat (i.e., Suite-Class) lounge, could Michael's Club revert back to a cabaret setting? They will need Eden-istas (whatever they call them) for the Eden Xperience, so could the other performers --- especially singers --- do their thing at Michael's (all this instead of a Production Show. I don't think anyone would miss Topper)?

 

Would expect the first year of Edge would be for the adventurous, rather than those who want a classic cruise experience.

 

As stated, no inside info here just random musings, on a chilly Maryland afternoon.

 

i really hope half the ship is not Eden inspired. in all honesty, if they're marketing to my husband and i's age group (we're 33) I won't have much interest in Eden-inspired everything. I think the Eden concept is a little strange (but all cruise ships have their own interesting spaces that some may enjoy but I find strange) and a luxury experience is important to me. celebrity has been my favorite line since I was 16, and I sailed when cruising was still quite traditional. I know times are changing but it's dangerous to stray too far from the ideals of their larger customer base. I am hoping they revealed those spaces first in an attempt to appeal to my group (if they think that's what we want :rolleyes:), but then still have their usual offerings to cater to their regulars. it only makes sense, because they last thing they want to do is alienate their loyal customers.

[sloopsailor]

...., because they last thing they want to do is alienate their loyal customers.

 

Too late. I am not impressed with the direction Celebrity is now going and no longer am looking at them first. Fortunately, there are several options available to all cruisers to find their best fit.

 

To answer the OP's question - yes, people ARE buying "a pig in a poke". Spending that much money on a cruise without knowing all the details about the ship itself is exactly that.

[CruisingTheWaves]

Too late. I am not impressed with the direction Celebrity is now going and no longer am looking at them first. Fortunately, there are several options available to all cruisers to find their best fit.

 

To answer the OP's question - yes, people ARE buying "a pig in a poke". Spending that much money on a cruise without knowing all the details about the ship itself is exactly that.

 

and the option to cancel for those who don't like what they see in the reveals is still there, up until final payment. and yes, it's a good thing we all have a choice. I just know most other lines, based on other reasons, are not for me.

[hcat]

Here’s her pull out.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Thanks for posting this...another milestone for EDGE!

[hcat]

i really hope half the ship is not Eden inspired. in all honesty, if they're marketing to my husband and i's age group (we're 33) I won't have much interest in Eden-inspired everything. I think the Eden concept is a little strange (but all cruise ships have their own interesting spaces that some may enjoy but I find strange) and a luxury experience is important to me. celebrity has been my favorite line since I was 16, and I sailed when cruising was still quite traditional. I know times are changing but it's dangerous to stray too far from the ideals of their larger customer base. I am hoping they revealed those spaces first in an attempt to appeal to my group (if they think that's what we want :rolleyes:), but then still have their usual offerings to cater to their regulars. it only makes sense, because they last thing they want to do is alienate their loyal customers.

 

I think you make some great points. We also would not want a prevasive EDEN theme throughout the ship but we see plans for other nice areas like the upstairs grill, solarium...etc. The Eden performances will probably be attractive to those who like late night Edgy entertainment ( pun intended) , late night comedy etc...Most nights we'll be at a quiet bar or on our balcony enjoying the stars!

 

Each new class of X ship has been a mystery to a certain extent, We have enjoyed them all....so far!

 

Even though we will be assigned to BLU, I wonder where the mdr will be...as the back area where mdr used to be is taken up with Eden??

[sloopsailor]

....I just know most other lines, based on other reasons, are not for me.

 

Considering the high prices being listed for Edge, Azamara is starting to look more appealing.

[Two Wheels Only]

Not surprising that you would defend the move towards class systems on newer ships with more and more areas dedicated to suite guests, and dismiss posters that have concerns about this trend. Your posting history clearly indicates you typically book suites, so your defense is quite self serving.

 

I can almost always tell who books suites by the fact that they defend these new trends as a good thing "for everybody" when in reality it only is a good thing for themselves. :rolleyes:

Just my opinion as an outsider looking in.....

 

The "ship-within-a-ship" concept actually works for us (family of 4). The Haven (NCL) and Yacht Club (MSC) are both very popular with those who have experienced them. I have Haven experience and my first MSC cruise (Yacht Club) will be on Seaside this summer. I was interested in Edge based just on looks (beautiful interior design) but The Retreat is what will likely lead me to book. I'm still waiting on some information just like many others (I'm looking at 2020 dates....so no big rush).

 

I found this thread and it has questions about Edge (which I also have), a Seaside review :eek: (not so good), and a discussion about exclusive areas of the ship (I really like what I have seen of The Retreat). Never judge a thread by the title. (y)

[TomMMD]

Celebrity tweeted yesterday that info on the dining venues will be released Feb 28

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[vtcruising]

Celebrity tweeted yesterday that info on the dining venues will be released Feb 28

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Great news! I will be on the Summit at the time so hope the WiFi will be working well.