Huge brawl on the Legend, with video.

[klfrodo]

After going back through the thread, I am more than prepared to admit I was wrong on a bunch of things. After Les37b clarified what he meant, I can see how I was reading his earlier posts wrong. I do apologize. I also apologize for the snarky tone of my responses. I would tell you what a bad day I was having, but that's no excuse. I sunk to the level of those that usually annoy me, and I'm sorry for that.

 

In the very beginning of this thread, I also thought the man in the teal shirt was UC security. However, while reading other posts, I came around to believing he was a passenger and that they were trying to get him off of the guy on the ground. It appears my first impression was correct, and I was easily swayed. Based on that, he had the guy in a well trained headlock, and there was really no reason for the other guards to be kicking the guy. It would have been just a matter of a minute before the guy in the orange shorts was rendered unconscious. Not that any of that makes any difference in ANYTHING, but I found it interesting to see how other posts changed my initial impression.

 

 

Much respect for the mea culpa

[les37b]

After going back through the thread, I am more than prepared to admit I was wrong on a bunch of things. After Les37b clarified what he meant, I can see how I was reading his earlier posts wrong. I do apologize. I also apologize for the snarky tone of my responses. I would tell you what a bad day I was having, but that's no excuse. I sunk to the level of those that usually annoy me, and I'm sorry for that.

 

In the very beginning of this thread, I also thought the man in the teal shirt was UC security. However, while reading other posts, I came around to believing he was a passenger and that they were trying to get him off of the guy on the ground. It appears my first impression was correct, and I was easily swayed. Based on that, he had the guy in a well trained headlock, and there was really no reason for the other guards to be kicking the guy. It would have been just a matter of a minute before the guy in the orange shorts was rendered unconscious. Not that any of that makes any difference in ANYTHING, but I found it interesting to see how other posts changed my initial impression.

 

Thank you for your honest response. I'm glad its clearer now. There were lots of odd comments in the thread with complete opposite bias to each other. I've thought my take on the event was relatively balanced.

 

I think everyone was happy to see them ejected and know they were the cause of the trouble. Thats still a grey area as ship reports seem both feuding sides are blaming the other. I think looking at the video or the fat bloke in the white t-shirt with his smirking dad, sum up nicely who the aggressors were. They looked satisfied they'd caused the fights and bot bothered theyd been kicked off, which says it all to me.

 

The Crew had every right to defend themselves - and that would include (IMHO) kicking if they were being attacked..... but not someone being held down.... that's just bang out of order.

 

I do wonder if the real truth will surface.... in this instance, I do think the general thoughts are likely to be pretty much what happened. Time MAY tell, but I wont hold my breath on anything new surfacing.

 

It has brought up numerous unknowns as a result. In the same way I suggested it would be crazy for an Australian to have to go to battle in the US, it begs the question if an American would be expected to travel to Oz (given passage 31 posted.) That wouldnt be fair either, so I do wonder if passage and contracts may be different.

 

Anyway..... thank you (and Aquahound) again for your replies - and in these civil times.... I'll happily apologise for my own provocative comments...

[CKM]

I wonder if these people (trouble makers) will be blackballed from taking another cruise with Carnival?

 

 

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[burm]

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[les37b]

I wonder if these people (trouble makers) will be blackballed from taking another cruise with Carnival?

 

I would be shocked if those ejected are not given lifelong bans on all Carnival Corp lines. (And hope they are). I suspect those who volunteered to leave may escape the ban.

 

Hopefully (being nosey) the final outcome is released. Will be interesting in the Barhko family do as they’ve threatened and let Carnival “hear from their solicitor”. I rather suspect that’s bluster.

[ccsclean21]

Carnival Australia stated that they were planning on banning them on every ship that belongs to Carnival and its associated companies and I wrote to Royal Caribbean stating I like to see them banned from their lines as well and if we all send an email to our favorite cruise lines asking them to put a ban on these thugs and that ban should be extended to the families that went off the ship as well. they should be on the no fly list as well because if they fight on a ship they will possibly fight on a plane because they don't know how to behave in public.

Start emailing your favorite line today

[Elephant999]

Really? So the ban (including every cruise line and airline according to you) should extend to the rest of the family who may be entirely innocent? Do you know the full story of exactly who, what, why, how?

 

I hate thugs and people who are feral in public but I won’t be emailing my favourite cruise line today, I can imagine it will go straight into the spam inbox.

[ccsclean21]

I really don't care what happened but if you are involved in a brawl and it has affected every passengers enjoyment I think there should be some stiff consequences and let the Authorities deal with who started it and go from there and I would agree with the Captain get them off the ship. Put it this way if you can't behave in public then there should be repercussions not just a smack on the had and told don't do it again. I think these families know how these goons behave in public because I know how my family behaves in public and defiantly not like them, far from it. I have met people who love to brawl and that's what they do, they go looking for it and the best way is to walk away don't react because that is what they want. I know I certainly don't want them or their families on a ship because if their families can't control their louts then yes ban them too and yes the cruise line I spoke to stated they would consider the ban if their names came to their attention.

I want a nice friendly cruise, not a cruise from hell.

[Kingofcool1947]

Carnival Australia stated that they were planning on banning them on every ship that belongs to Carnival and its associated companies and I wrote to Royal Caribbean stating I like to see them banned from their lines as well and if we all send an email to our favorite cruise lines asking them to put a ban on these thugs and that ban should be extended to the families that went off the ship as well. they should be on the no fly list as well because if they fight on a ship they will possibly fight on a plane because they don't know how to behave in public.

Start emailing your favorite line today

 

Wow!

Vigilante mentality? :eek:

Enjoy your cruise. ;)

Edited February 28, 2018 by Kingofcool1947

[les37b]

I really don't care what happened but if you are involved in a brawl and it has affected every passengers enjoyment I think there should be some stiff consequences

 

 

So you are innocently passing time and someone verbally abuses you, attacks you and you defend yourself and it ends as a brawl, you would be happy to be banned from ever travelling again?

 

Surely you only want guilty people to be banned.... or next time it could be you who is innocent and a victim..... and unable to ever cruise again if your policies are adopted.

 

There were people who left the ship who weren’t involved. Should we ban their parents and other children too? After all, guilty by association isn’t a bad thing is it?

Edited February 28, 2018 by les37b

[Maraprince]

I wonder if these people (trouble makers) will be blackballed from taking another cruise with Carnival?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

 

You think!!!!

 

maraprince

[Elephant999]

So you are innocently passing time and someone verbally abuses you, attacks you and you defend yourself and it ends as a brawl, you would be happy to be banned from ever travelling again?

 

Surely you only want guilty people to be banned.... or next time it could be you who is innocent and a victim..... and unable to ever cruise again if your policies are adopted.

 

There were people who left the ship who weren’t involved. Should we ban their parents and other children too? After all, guilty by association isn’t a bad thing is it?

 

Quite. Totally agree and hard to argue with.

 

Don’t forget, they couldn’t fly anywhere either if on the no-fly list!

[Stateroom_Sailor]

So you are innocently passing time and someone verbally abuses you, attacks you and you defend yourself and it ends as a brawl, you would be happy to be banned from ever travelling again?

 

Surely you only want guilty people to be banned.... or next time it could be you who is innocent and a victim..... and unable to ever cruise again if your policies are adopted.

 

There were people who left the ship who weren’t involved. Should we ban their parents and other children too? After all, guilty by association isn’t a bad thing is it?

 

I agree that the people who had enough of this, defended themselves on day 9, were blameless. In fact, they should be offered security jobs, since they seemed to have a better handle on the situation than those actually employed to do so.

 

The extended family, it seems like a grey area. If I decided to vacation with family like this (and trust me, I have some winners!), turned a blind eye to their actions, hung out with them during and in-between episodes, and exited the ship while then they were kicked off, I would expect to possibly be black listed.

[Elephant999]

Problem with society is by large, A lot of people “put up” with this type of behaviour. We need to start having zero tolerance for this rubbish.

 

And I’m heartily sick of people with mobiles filming everything. Put it down, and do something productive like enlist assistance to stop this. Car accident - let’s film it, fight - let’s film it, aircraft suffering decompression - let’s take a selfie in an oxygen mask etc etc. There are plenty more idiots lining up to cause trouble in all areas of life, and blacklisting them isn’t going to stop them until they have caused mayhem.

 

I’ve seen people tutting in disgrace before now at things as “they don’t want to get involved” but whinge and whine after the event, which allow bad behaviour to go unchecked.

[torcruise]

the idea to ban the whole family is ridiculous

[ccsclean21]

In Australia years ago you could go on a cruise to the islands and didn't need a passport but because of those type of idiots we now have to pay for passports and go through all the processes to get them and keep them renewed all because of people who can't behave in public so yes ban them from even leaving the country and maybe I was a bit harsh in banning the families who went off the ship in support but certainly ban trouble makers who go looking for trouble.

I have seen idiots walking on the hand rails showing off in not too calm sea and guess what Captain threw them off and that was the days you didn't need pass ports, big problem to the Authorities on the Islands.

Deck chairs been thrown over board, It's hard getting a deck chair at the best of times with out them going overboard and yes off the ship next port for them.

then there has been drunks going around in the disco trying to start a fight and lucky people just moved away from them and security grabbed them very quickly and don't know if they got put off the ship but never saw then again for the whole cruise.

So do you really want to be on a cruise with these idiot, I don't.

[payitforward]

Problem with society is by large, A lot of people “put up” with this type of behaviour. We need to start having zero tolerance for this rubbish.

 

And I’m heartily sick of people with mobiles filming everything. Put it down, and do something productive like enlist assistance to stop this. Car accident - let’s film it, fight - let’s film it, aircraft suffering decompression - let’s take a selfie in an oxygen mask etc etc. There are plenty more idiots lining up to cause trouble in all areas of life, and blacklisting them isn’t going to stop them until they have caused mayhem.

 

I’ve seen people tutting in disgrace before now at things as “they don’t want to get involved” but whinge and whine after the event, which allow bad behaviour to go unchecked.

 

In most cases I would agree with you. I spent a LOT of years as an EMT, a number of years as Firefighter, and was later a 911 dispatcher. When it comes to things like accidents, injuries or fires, I would not hesitate to act. That said, I'm not sure what, if anything, I could have done when faced with the situation we see in the few video clips we have. There is NO WAY this 5'4 woman is going toe to toe with that violent giant of a man! And, since the ship's staff was not only present, but involved in many of the incidents, I'm not sure what kind of help I could have "enlisted." Documenting the incidents with a phone might have been all that some felt able to do.

[torcruise]

In most cases I would agree with you. I spent a LOT of years as an EMT, a number of years as Firefighter, and was later a 911 dispatcher. When it comes to things like accidents, injuries or fires, I would not hesitate to act. That said, I'm not sure what, if anything, I could have done when faced with the situation we see in the few video clips we have. There is NO WAY this 5'4 woman is going toe to toe with that violent giant of a man! And, since the ship's staff was not only present, but involved in many of the incidents, I'm not sure what kind of help I could have "enlisted." Documenting the incidents with a phone might have been all that some felt able to do.

I agree, I'm a huge fan of people filming everything, especially law enforcement.

[ccsclean21]

If you got involved you could end up off the ship so yeah "you are damned if you do and damned if you don't"

Like I mentioned earlier in this topic, maybe grab a fire extinguisher and let loose and if it is power type it is good as a taser if not better but very messy and possibly you might be put off the ship as well but it would stop the brawl as no one will be able to see less alone fight.

[les37b]

If you got involved you could end up off the ship so yeah "you are damned if you do and damned if you don't"

Like I mentioned earlier in this topic, maybe grab a fire extinguisher and let loose and if it is power type it is good as a taser if not better but very messy and possibly you might be put off the ship as well but it would stop the brawl as no one will be able to see less alone fight.

 

 

Good grief! It gets worse! So now you want to set off fire extinguishers!

 

You shouldn’t be allowed on a ship to get kicked off with that train of thought! Quite possibly the craziest suggestion I’ve witnessed on these boards!

 

So to summarise. You want to ban the people from this family involved. I think everyone is with you on that. You also want anyone associated with these people banned on cruise ships and airlines even though they did nothing wrong. You also think that someone being bullied and defends themselves after being attacked should be banned...... and now think it’s a good idea to pick up a fire extinguisher and set it off to “tazer” people as a weapon despite knowing it’s an essential piece of safety equipment and would make a massive mess.

 

I’m just waiting for you to suggest the crew and passengers be allowed to carry arms! lol

Edited March 1, 2018 by les37b

[ccsclean21]

You rather let the brawl continue it seems. If one extinguisher stops a brawl and possibly someone getting killed and if you are getting bullied it is totally wrong to retaliate because that will lead to a brawl so maybe you should be banned from cruise ships because you want to fight with me for my opinion and everyone is entitled to have an opinion and I suppose you want these thugs to not be banned as it sounds like you support them.

I think this tread has had enough talk on this stupid brawl and should concentrate more on getting quality cruising which is what cruise critic is all about.

I'm all for zero tolerance.

[les37b]

You rather let the brawl continue it seems. If one extinguisher stops a brawl and possibly someone getting killed and if you are getting bullied it is totally wrong to retaliate because that will lead to a brawl so maybe you should be banned from cruise ships because you want to fight with me for my opinion and everyone is entitled to have an opinion and I suppose you want these thugs to not be banned as it sounds like you support them.

I think this tread has had enough talk on this stupid brawl and should concentrate more on getting quality cruising which is what cruise critic is all about.

I'm all for zero tolerance.

 

Words fail me.

 

So from what I’ve said, you are claiming I think fighting on ships is ok, you need to let off fire extuinguishers to prevent deaths, I should be banned from cruise ships because I think I should be allowed to defend myself from a beating, apparently I want to fight you, I support thugs and want them to remain on the ship and lastly the hole you’ve dug has got too deep so you want the thread removed.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

I really don’t know where to start, so I’ll prove at least that I don’t want to fight you and walk away nodding my head without demolishing every single thing you’ve just said.

[Maraprince]

Use the nets they put over the pools when they are drained to "gather" the troublemakers. No mess, no harm to passengers not involved.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[Keys2Heaven]

Use the nets they put over the pools when they are drained to "gather" the troublemakers. No mess, no harm to passengers not involved.

MARAPRINCE

 

What about one of those web thingys that Spiderman has? Could come in useful.

[Lenliner]

I agree, I'm a huge fan of people filming everything, especially law enforcement.

 

 

 

Agreed! However, when taking video could you please, please, PLEASE turn the phone over into landscape mode?! Way too many slit videos all over media such as the evening news, where an editor will will fill up the rest of the frame in a slit video, with a blurred effect.

 

Really Annoying on a 60" display. >_<