New Dress Code Designations?

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

They won’t- this is their attempt to pacify those who want to see the rules remain in place but also entice those who were put off by them to step onboard. If they had any intention of keeping things the same they wouldn’t have changed the wording at all.

 

Cunard is simply fobbing everyone off - had there been no issues as they claim with the "simple change of words" for TRANSPARANCY they would have NOTIFIED ALL current ticketed passengers and travel agents IN ADVANCE of the change. All it required was a mail out or email out. Not snuck in it the back door and hope no one noticed.

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

Originally posted by DT_PB_all_at_sea Totally agree - we have x4 bookings with Cunard 2018/19 one is a full World Cruise and I am totally disgusted wth the way this has been managed. You could try Angus Struthers he is supposed to be the Cunard Marketing Director - angus.struthers@cunard.co.uk - but bare in mind he told a passenger and member of this site on 26th "Nothing is changing regarding Dress Codes" so he seems to not know what he is doing!! Good luck.

 

 

Many thanks for posting this email address. I have just sent a note expressing my support for this new policy and hopes that Cunard will continue to relax their dress code.

 

Don't hold your breath - he never responds to any contact = merely moves it on to a 'minion'

[pinkpanther52]

I guess they feel if they are paying many thousands to be on a voyage that they NOT be treated like first graders. Turn off the “ dress code” police in the twenty first century.

 

I have been followin this thread with interest as I have booked my 1st Cunard cruise for next year. I have also been trying to convince my friend to join me. We are both early 50s and ENJOY dressing up.

 

Why can’t there be a line that has this as a USP? And yes bring on the “dress code police” if required.

 

BTW I was on NCL last year and there was was a male dressed in Pajamas Yes Pajamas:eek: :eek: In the Main Dining Room one evening. Made me feel I was in some undesirable place.

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

I am absolutely disgusted by Cunard absolute lack of clarity re the so called change in dress code. I have spoken to Southampton , they can’t explain anything, emailed Carnival, nothing, my travel agent could find out nothing either. We have 4 cruises booked with Cunard this year. I think myself and all the other customers deserved better treatment. After all at the end of the day we are paying all these far cats wages who cannot even answer a simply question,

 

Totally agree - setting aside whether one agrees or disagrees with the dress code down grading - Cunard should have advised all past and ticketed passengers and their travel agents before sneaking in the 'change'. TOTAL LACK OF TRANSPARANCY AND TOTAL LACK OF RESPECT FOR LOYAL REGULAR/NEW PASSENGERS.

[LB_NJ]

The staff might stop people from being shirtless in restaurants however, I think the ambiance will still be destroyed when people come for afternoon tea in baseball caps, bathing suits, sandals, and basketball tank shirts.

 

Unfortunately if you don't enforce some things it destroys the experience for others.

 

It is a business and Carnival can do what it likes however, I agree it would be nice if they just told their customers what market they were going after.

 

One of the major reasons customers complain and businesses get a bad reputation is customer expectations are not met. If I happen to go to a McDonalds I don't complain that it is not haute cuisine. However, if I go somewhere promising a fancy French meal and it tastes like McDonalds then I will tell everyone I ever meet how bad it was.

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

It's a fool's errand to try to get any real contact from Cunard and sheer madness to expect them to ask or listen.

(Aside from rating the staff from your questionnaires)

 

- Mark

 

Mark, makes me sad to have to agree - increasingly the Cunard 'Management' and in particular Marketing/PR do not give a jot about their loyal passengers. I have stopped putting in their Questionnaires - as they mean nothing, as they simply do what the 'bean counters' say.

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

Being an optimist at heart (which may be a surprise when reading my recent posts) I truly hope this is a reflection of a change in approach.

 

- Mark

 

Mark, they want you to DM as the message and response can not be seen by others!

[Windsurfboy]

Hi. Re my earlier comments supporting a relaxed casual daytime regime and a strict elegant evening regime,

 

one member replied to my wish to be able to walk to pool in swimwear saying, its was bad mannered and against dress code thus disrespecting others.

 

Firstly it would not be against the new dress code . I was not suggesting that you go into restaurants, lounges, bars in swimwear just walk along a corridor up stairs to the pool. This cannot disrespect anyone if it's allowed by new dress code

 

Secondly he is confusing etiquette, of which dress codes are a part, and manners Manners are about kindness and consideration of others, being polite, saying please , thank you, holding doors open for others etc etc. Dress code is a social norm, disrespecting dress code is ill mannered, suggesting a change to dress codes is not.

[buchhalm]

Heads Up for a potential "Stealth"

 

Heard a rumour regarding the "enforcement" of the dress code, with regarding the Theatre. It would appear, Cunard's meet/greet people at the Theatre entrances, will unofficially turn a blind eye to those miscreants not following the dress code as they enter the Theatre.

 

 

Have asked Cunard to formally answer in writing if the dress code will fully enforced with regard to the Theatre, and all other code applicable areas. The answer requirement is for single word answer, being a yes or a no.

 

 

It has been four days, still no reply. Will post the Cunard confirmation.

 

 

Does any other CC Member have any information?

 

Actually, the THEATRE is a place I don't mind so much what people are wearing - or not. It's DARK there

[bluemarble]

Hi Hattie

The problem is as with many things Cunard are not consistent - we sail with them twice a year - I just had a look at the Daily Programmes from the last two years voyages =

- QV; V710 - "CASUAL, DINE IN THE BUFFET AND RELAX IN THE WINTER GARDEN BUT SHOULD NOT USE OTHER AREAS OF THE SHIP"

- QM2; M801 - "CASUAL, DINE IN THE KINGS COURT, RELAX IN THE CARINTHIA LOUNGE AND DANCE IN G32"

 

Totally inconsistent at the moment and likely to be even more confusing on board.

 

To be frank IMO increasingly few if any meet and greet crew members challenge passengers dressing off the code etc. Presumably their land based 'managers' (using the term loosely) simply do not issue the instruction to all Hotel Managers on board and no one can be bothered so long as they pull in a salary.

 

I'll take a stab at trying to offer some clarification concerning when the G32 and Yacht Club were added to the list of casual venues. It is a relatively recent change. I believe many of us on this forum first learned about that change in March 2017 from this thread.

 

Transition to casual areas after 6pm

 

That's when I first learned those venues were included in the answer to the question "Does the dress code apply to all areas of the ship?" on the Cunard UK FAQ. Comments in that thread indicate the change had not yet appeared in recent daily programmes. And your comment above shows the change had not yet appeared in your QV daily programmes from April 2017. I did find a QV daily programme posted online from July 2017 that does list the Yacht Club as one of the casual venues. So it would appear this is a case of a policy first introduced by a change to the UK FAQ sometime around March 2017 and then filtered down to the daily programmes sometime later over the next several months.

[keithm]

I have no idea.

It's disappointing that the staff need to do any enforcing, the dress codes are clearly printed in the Daily Programme and signs posted at the entrance to rooms but people still stroll in apparently completely oblivious to the fact that they are wearing a shirt when every other man in the room has a jacket on.

Trust me. They are not "oblivious"! They are thumbing down their noses. The staff(and pax) need to make the "Onslows" aware that this form of improper dress is unacceptable. If we as pax do nothing, then the staff will do the same & then watch Cunard degrade into just another mass market cruiseline.

[keithm]

I thought you might be amused by this question I found on a different thread:

 

"

Can my husband wear sweat pants in the MDR the first night and every night for that matter on Empress of the Seas? Sailing April 14-18 to Nassau and Key West. "

The answer was in essence "not a problem, dress as you wish"

That short a cruise is what we refer to as a "Trailer Trash Booze Cruise". I'd never go on one of those!

[Windsurfboy]

It should be the staff who police dress code, I'm not on vacation to tell others what to do.

 

Every set of boarding documents should stress how important the elegant ambience is to all the people who cruise with Cunard and that dress code will be enforsed

 

However it goes back to young marketing departments who are out of touch with the basic economic fact that Our generation, 60+ are the ones with the disposable income. Instead they design policies based on what their generation want. The fault lies with the board of Cunard, who must fight for their brand and it's USP, the reason people pay more. If it becomes a mass cruise ship, it will hit bottom line in the end, can't management understand this

[princeton12321]

Trust me. They are not "oblivious"! They are thumbing down their noses. The staff(and pax) need to make the "Onslows" aware that this form of improper dress is unacceptable. If we as pax do nothing, then the staff will do the same & then watch Cunard degrade into just another mass market cruiseline.

 

 

 

As this thread continues it sort of astounds me how detached from reality some of this is. Cunard operates the same size ships that carnival, HAL, Costa, and Celebrity so. They are by definition a mass market cruise line and have been since they cut loose the Sea Goddesses and Caronia. They have good marketing- they present an upscale image. But you’re not boutique when you’re carrying 2-3000 passengers. If anything the QE2 had her own style but the QM2 on have sort of been cartoonish versions of older ships- that sort of Hollywood glamor that someone once said “never was but always will be”. If I want to luxuriate in Art Deco splendor and dress up every night I’ll do it in the authentic confines of The Savoy. Cunard ships are extremely pleasant and I prefer their decor to most others but it has more in common authenticity wise with Disneyland than it does the Queen Mary in Long Beach.

 

Now after that rant I’ll say that I like Cunard very much- I’ve been sailing them for 40 years and have seen them evolve from a struggling holdover of another time to a well run corporate outfit. I’ll continue to sail them from time to time regardless if jackets are required in the theater or not. But let’s call a spade a spade if we’re going to have a spirited argument about what they represent as a brand and how that effects our dress.

[Lakesregion]

Interesting that Cunard has retreated from their own Facebook page and is no longer trying to defend the indefensible as more and more people post their dissatisfaction over the changes in ambiance brought on by the loosening of attire standards.

[Host Hattie]

They're probably giving themselves the Bank Holiday weekend off.

[PRINCESSTHE BEST]

Heads Up for a potential "Stealth"

 

 

 

Heard a rumour regarding the "enforcement" of the dress code, with regarding the Theatre. It would appear, Cunard's meet/greet people at the Theatre entrances, will unofficially turn a blind eye to those miscreants not following the dress code as they enter the Theatre.

 

 

 

 

 

Have asked Cunard to formally answer in writing if the dress code will fully enforced with regard to the Theatre, and all other code applicable areas. The answer requirement is for single word answer, being a yes or a no.

 

 

 

 

 

It has been four days, still no reply. Will post the Cunard confirmation.

 

 

 

 

 

Does any other CC Member have any information?

 

 

 

Having just been on the Q.V. South America Adventure, the dress code was not enforced in the theatre. People were entering wearing jumpers, shirts no jackets and all manor of casual dress. There was though a pre recorded message played 15 minutes before the performance stating the dress code applied in the theatre, but no one took any notice.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

I disagree that Cunard are losing customers because of the dress codes. Indeed they seem to be more booked up than I have ever seen before. Also there are far fewer reduced fares around which would indicate fewer spaces needing filling. I don't really think they could claim people are not booking because of the dress code. Also, I know a lot of people who don't go on CC who love and book Cunard because of the formal dress codes. One has already mentioned looking elsewhere if the codes change further. Cunard needs to be very careful not to lose its USP and all its very loyal customers. I really hope things don't relax further.

 

Hi - I agree with you. Cunard has a pretty unique USP - classic ships with a formal dress code - hence the ability to charge more for the average stateroom and more for the on-board services such as drinks with a higher % service charge (15%). Dramatically downgrade that USP and you no longer have the ability to charge a premium on cabins and on-board drinks/etc.

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

Have a long term trusted friend in the USA, who is a Carnival Exec. We talked, and at this point in time it looks as if Q919H may be our last Cunard cruise.

 

Hi - very reluctantly we may follow suit - we have x2 cruises booked this year 2018 and a full world Cruise on QV along with Alaska in 2019 and so far looks like they will be our last cruises with Cunard or any other Carnival Corp line for that matter.

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

I cancelled my December 2018 back to back transatlantic cruise. No need to spend 14 days on the seas among a sea of jeans and other less than inspiring attire both day and night. I can obtain that atmosphere here at home for the price of a cup of coffee and a muffin.

 

Sorry to hear that - we would consider cancelling next years full World Cruise on QV if the un refundable deposit was not so high. But should the two cruises we have booked and paid later this summer are adversely affected we may still consider a WC cancellation.

[insanemagnet]

The staff(and pax) need to make the "Onslows" aware that this form of improper dress is unacceptable.

 

Does this mean you consider yourself a Bucket?

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

Sadly, I think you're right. It seems like a waste of time to change the names of the categories when the descriptions are not changing. I believe there's more to come. "Stealth change" is a good term.

 

So they have expanded the range of places where passengers can go without following the dress code. I have little expectation that the remaining formal locations will be respected. There is an arrogance in many (NOT ALL) of the people who won't dress up on formal nights--the "I don't wanna, you can't make me" people. I used to see it on HAL before they caved. And I've seen it a few times on QM2.

 

I saw a couple in cargo shorts and t-shirts in the hallway outside the Chart Room on QM2 around 7:30 on a formal night. I was waiting for friends, and I watched as this couple looking uncertainly into the Chart Room. They would have to have been incredibly stupid not to see that nobody was dressed the way they were. I said "If you're looking for somewhere casual to go, the Winter Garden is available for people who don't want to dress for formal night, and you can have dinner at the buffet." The man said that they'd already eaten in the dining room and then changed to be more comfortable. I pointed out that Cunard passengers remain dressed up all evening, and repeated that the Winter Garden was the designated bar for people who didn't dress up. He asked me about going to the show and I said they weren't supposed to go dressed like that. We went to the show and sat in the balcony. When I looked around the room, admiring all the finery, I noticed that couple downstairs, sitting right in the front row.

 

If Cunard wants to give the don't-dress-up passengers more places to go to in the evening, then they need to show some regard for those of us who do appreciate the ambiance of formal nights, and enforce the dress code in the designated formal locations.

 

But I'm not betting on it.

 

The onboard meet and greet staff and the maître d's/bar managers do absolutely nothing to enforce any kind of dress code. They seem to be told to turn a blind eye or simply cant be bothered. It can only now get worse.

[LB_NJ]

That short a cruise is what we refer to as a "Trailer Trash Booze Cruise". I'd never go on one of those!

 

That ship also has 7 and 8 day cruises that can run about $140 pp/day for ocean view depending on date and itinerary. I am sure the answer would be the same about wearing sweatpants to the MDR at night.

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

The loyal customers they are loosing are the older generation who have the time and the money to spend £15,000 on a world cruise.The ones they will gain will be the 3 and 4 day cruisers who spend £4/500 and who want a change from their all inclusive Mediterranean holiday

 

Hi - we are booked on the QV World Cruise next year - I wish we had only spent £15k - your point is spot on; I wonder how much profit they will make out of the 3/4 day taster cruises, bringing their own booze on board and avoiding spending much on board because of the bar rates and 15% service charge.

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

I've spent some time thinking long and hard about what has prompted this "terminology change" from Cunard and I think I have an answer.

 

Below is a link to Carnival's 2017 Strategic Report and IFRS Financial Statements. The Strategic report makes for interesting reading.

 

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9Njg5NDgyfENoaWxkSUQ9Mzk5OTEyfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1

 

 

I quote from Section 1:B:II:b: Positive Demand Trends:

From a demographic perspective, two age groups, the Baby Boomers and the Millennial generations, have in recent years experienced trends that positively affect demand for cruising. The Baby Boomer generation likes to pursue an active lifestyle and has the desire and the means to travel and enjoys multi-generational cruising. The Millennial generation has now surpassed the size of the Baby Boomer generation and represents the fastest growing demographic segment of the vacation industry. This group expresses a strong desire to travel and share new experiences, a mindset that should continue to foster growth for the industry. A recent study by the American Society of Travel Agents (“ASTA”) indicates that the Millennial generation has as positive a view of cruising as the Baby Boomer generation.

 

So let's think about what Baby Boomers and Millennials would respond to in terms of terminology. I have no doubt Carnival has spent a LOT of money to do just that in order to make Cunard an aspirational brand for the higher-income earning bracket within those key groups.

 

Would "Formal" and "Informal" work? I don't think so, and I suggest Carnival's research has found the same.

"Smart Attire" and "Gala" is probably more likely to be terminology that the newer cruisers might respond to positively. I'm sure focus groups have identified just that.

 

So...will we see baseball caps or dress denim in the Britannia dining rooms? Highly unlikely. It's in Carnival's interests to keep the Cunard brand exactly where it is: luxury travel, but not "ultra luxury". That moniker has been adopted by the Seabourn brand if I read this document correctly.

 

In my humble opinion, I don't think Carnival would be well served to turn Cunard into a more diluted version of their current offering to appeal to a wider base. I think what they are trying to do is make the brand a touch more accessible to the affluent Baby Boomer & Millennial by using terminology they will respond to rather than terminology that might have been found relatable by generations prior to these groups.

 

ps.

In all this should I, as a Gen X-er, be a little miffed that we don't even rate a mention? To quote a clever twitter contributor "Whenever I see Millennials and Baby Boomers arguing it seems they forget there's a generation between that despises them both!"

 

Hello - a well put together point. As a contented 'late Gen X/Sloane Ranger' I am more than happy not to be mentioned by anyone at Carnival Corp.......unless they are the people who upgrade cabins but given the comments I have made on CC I don't think that is ever likely again!! LOL