New Dress Code Designations?

[hamrag]

I've spent some time thinking long and hard about what has prompted this "terminology change" from Cunard and I think I have an answer.

 

Below is a link to Carnival's 2017 Strategic Report and IFRS Financial Statements. The Strategic report makes for interesting reading.

 

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9Njg5NDgyfENoaWxkSUQ9Mzk5OTEyfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1

 

 

I quote from Section 1:B:II:b: Positive Demand Trends:

From a demographic perspective, two age groups, the Baby Boomers and the Millennial generations, have in recent years experienced trends that positively affect demand for cruising. The Baby Boomer generation likes to pursue an active lifestyle and has the desire and the means to travel and enjoys multi-generational cruising. The Millennial generation has now surpassed the size of the Baby Boomer generation and represents the fastest growing demographic segment of the vacation industry. This group expresses a strong desire to travel and share new experiences, a mindset that should continue to foster growth for the industry. A recent study by the American Society of Travel Agents (“ASTA”) indicates that the Millennial generation has as positive a view of cruising as the Baby Boomer generation.

 

So let's think about what Baby Boomers and Millennials would respond to in terms of terminology. I have no doubt Carnival has spent a LOT of money to do just that in order to make Cunard an aspirational brand for the higher-income earning bracket within those key groups.

 

Would "Formal" and "Informal" work? I don't think so, and I suggest Carnival's research has found the same.

"Smart Attire" and "Gala" is probably more likely to be terminology that the newer cruisers might respond to positively. I'm sure focus groups have identified just that.

 

So...will we see baseball caps or dress denim in the Britannia dining rooms? Highly unlikely. It's in Carnival's interests to keep the Cunard brand exactly where it is: luxury travel, but not "ultra luxury". That moniker has been adopted by the Seabourn brand if I read this document correctly.

 

In my humble opinion, I don't think Carnival would be well served to turn Cunard into a more diluted version of their current offering to appeal to a wider base. I think what they are trying to do is make the brand a touch more accessible to the affluent Baby Boomer & Millennial by using terminology they will respond to rather than terminology that might have been found relatable by generations prior to these groups.

 

ps.

In all this should I, as a Gen X-er, be a little miffed that we don't even rate a mention? To quote a clever twitter contributor "Whenever I see Millennials and Baby Boomers arguing it seems they forget there's a generation between that despises them both!"

 

Despite the fact you despise my generation, this is well researched and thought out and a fair analysis of the report.....time will tell, and if the dress code descriptions remain a year from now then you may be correct. One thing that I do consider to be true is that the 'Millennial' generation do have a very positive view of cruising. All our kids, in their late 20's and early 30's now, love cruising and I know many at work who do so also. The one thing I do notice however is that they are much more interested in the, so called, mega ships with all their bells and whistles....so not certain that Cunard can align with that element of Millennials aspirations.

[hamrag]

We have still to take our first cruise on Cunard which is at the end of August. Having previously taken well over 20 cruises on other lines we were looking forward to a new experience. However we have always dressed up on formal nights and smartly on other evenings although my husband did not wear a jacket as almost no one did. He always wore his kilt on formal nights but, due to airline weight restrictions, he will only be taking his dinner suit this time. I love dressing up in the evening. Life at home nowadays is so casual even when going out for a meal it is nice to feel special. I hope things don’t change on Cunard but only time will tell.

 

As a fellow Scot, let my try to put your mind at rest. The HAL brand, much maligned on this thread, 'dumbed down' to the same Gala and Smart Attire evening dress code and has had that for a couple of years now. We are not long returned from an 18 night Westerdam cruise to Hawaii from San Diego. The ship had mainly Americans and Canadians, many Australians and Japanese, and only 22 Brits....4 of whom were Scots.

 

Anyway, to my point...we found the evening dress to be probably about 80% compliant, although the average age was certainly well into 60's so that generation do tend to dress more formally. We are early 60's and enjoyed that ambience. My gut feeling is that Cunard dress will not change in the short term, certainly not by August. Go with a positive attitude, as we Scots tend to do, and you will have an amazing cruise.

[deedub68]

Despite the fact you despise my generation.

 

Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned this was a quote from a third party. I should clarify by stating that this particular sentiment is not shared by this particular writer.

[deedub68]

Despite the fact you despise my generation, this is well researched and thought out and a fair analysis of the report.....time will tell, and if the dress code descriptions remain a year from now then you may be correct. One thing that I do consider to be true is that the 'Millennial' generation do have a very positive view of cruising. All our kids, in their late 20's and early 30's now, love cruising and I know many at work who do so also. The one thing I do notice however is that they are much more interested in the, so called, mega ships with all their bells and whistles....so not certain that Cunard can align with that element of Millennials aspirations.

Thank you for your kind words, and please note my ps was meant as an attempt at humour, not offense.

Agreed regarding milennials and their preference for megaships, however the time will come when they will want to try something a little more premium. I would suggest Cunard’s introduction of their new terminology is preparation for the day when the destination is equally as important as the vessel to take you there.

[hamrag]

Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned this was a quote from a third party. I should clarify by stating that this particular sentiment is not shared by this particular writer.

 

Absolutely, I did, my apologies....although my comment was simply a little light hearted comment at the beginning of the post. Need to read these things more thoroughly, but it is a humorous quote.

[LB_NJ]

I thought you might be amused by this question I found on a different thread:

 

"

Can my husband wear sweat pants in the MDR the first night and every night for that matter on Empress of the Seas? Sailing April 14-18 to Nassau and Key West. "

The answer was in essence "not a problem, dress as you wish"

[insanemagnet]

It's in Carnival's interests to keep the Cunard brand exactly where it is: luxury travel, but not "ultra luxury".

 

The problem with that is that the standard (non-Grills) is not 'luxury' travel.

 

It is certainly not unpleasant, but it definitely doesn't deliver an equivalent service to a real luxury hotel.

[wripro]

As far as I am concerned, QV & QE are no different than any other line, but QM2 *is* different than any other line, for two reasons - it's is an ocean liner - every other ship out there is a "cruise ship", and as far as I know, in addition to being the only ocean liner, it's also the only ship why regularly does the TA Crossing NY > Southampton; yes, there are other ships which do "repositioning" cruises, but they aren't built specifically to handle an ocean crossing on the north Atlantic.

 

 

Disclaimer - I've never sailed on any ship, and have had no desire to take a cruise on any ship; there has only ever been one ship which has interested me - the QM2 (and prior to that, the QE2), which are ocean liners, doing a NY > Southampton crossing.

 

 

Having said all that - I am disappointed in the changes in the dress code - I've been looking forward to dressing up for dinner and evenings; I don't ever get the chance to dress formally; I've never owned an evening gown :)

 

Please do not confuse the QM2 with the QE2. The QE2 was a true ocean liner in both construction and service, still reminiscent of ocean liners in their heyday. The QM2 is an ocean liner only on construction, built to withstand the rough North Atlantic seas. But once you step onboard you will find a cruise ship. Even the Queens Grill cannot compare to the experience one had on QE2.

[princeton12321]

Please do not confuse the QM2 with the QE2. The QE2 was a true ocean liner in both construction and service, still reminiscent of ocean liners in their heyday. The QM2 is an ocean liner only on construction, built to withstand the rough North Atlantic seas. But once you step onboard you will find a cruise ship. Even the Queens Grill cannot compare to the experience one had on QE2.

 

 

 

A lot of truth here- and the Cunard of today is very different from what a lot of us remember as well (for better and for worse). QE2 had her issues through the years (the food was atrocious for a good stretch in the 80s) but QM2 is much more a fast, extremely well fortified cruise ship when compared to her older former running mate than an ocean liner. I heard someone describe them once that if QM2 is a large Lexus SUV, QE2 was a well worn Bentley.

 

Back to the subject though- a lot of people forget that the dress code of today is more relaxed than it was on QE2. Used to be jacket and tie required the first and last night (of a proper 6 day crossing, none of this 7-8 day nonsense) and every night in the middle was black tie after 6pm. So the loosening of the dress code is nothing new- it’s happened before. The world kept spinning.

[Lakesregion]

. The world kept spinning.

 

As it has always done. I remember when I was a youth my father could only stand about 1/2 hour of "MY" music before he would yell shut that d thing off. and the world kept spinning. Then along came the Beatles and killed "MY" do wop style of r& B music and the world kept spinning. Ship board life has evolved over the years for better and for worse. On another line when they took the linens off the tables in the name of an American Table they reverted to steerage class amenities and the world kept spinning. Cunard has now reverted to a multi-class based dress code but tries to blend it into a single "class" of passenger and the world keeps spinning.

 

Sadly at every step along the way while the world keeps spinning, there are those of us who would prefer just a tiny sliver of it to spin a tad slower or maybe come to rest for a bit. Presently, I feel not unlike what a proper Roman Citizen must have felt when the Vandals were at the gates. While the world is still spinning, there is no place for me to go.

[Margana]

Many informative comments and opinions on this thread. But, essentially,would a laxer dress code be an important factor in the decision for previouspassengers to book again? Cunard (or Carnival) (from previous thread comments) apparently think not, and also believe that anew ( younger and larger number) demographic will be encouraged to travel. Somehave commented that society has moved towards less formality in dress (perhapsalso in behaviour and manners), so acceptance of this is inevitable. Others might believe that this is applicationof the lowest common denominator.

Sailing on Cunard ships for us has always been more than adress code. But important.

Perhaps, “Nostalgia is not what it used to be”.

[Shropshirekitkat]

We were on QE last summer, it must have been about 5.45pm, and we sauntered into the Commodore Club and looked at the cocktail menu. "Over the top" was cocktail of the day. We sat down and placed our order. It was amazing, gin, brandy and lots of smoke, served elaborately in a glass teapot. We sat down to enjoy. The waiter came over and whispered to my guest, "Excuse me sir, after 6pm, gentlemen are required to wear a jacket and trousers". He did this very discreetly. My guest returned to our stateroom, quickly changed with appropriate attire and returned to enjoy probably the best ever cocktail.

[bluemarble]

It looks like they are making some progress on updating the UK FAQ site (ask.cunard.com) relating to the new dress code wording. As mentioned previously, the answer to the most relevant question "Is there a dress code on board?" has not been updated yet. Nor has the answer to the question "Does the dress code apply to all areas of the ship?" been updated to indicate that casual attire is now acceptable in the Golden Lion and the Casino.

 

But the new wording has made its way into the answer to the question "What will the dress code be whilst I am on board?" Perhaps it's been updated for a couple days now and I just noticed it. Anyway, here's the link to the FAQ page for that question.

 

https://ask.cunard.com/help/cunard/life-on-board/dress_code_all

 

Mostly the same new wording we already know about. One thing that may be worth noting though is that this page indicates Cunard is retaining both "(Jacket Required)" for most voyages and "(Jacket Optional)" for embarkation day on Queen Victoria Mediterranean fly-cruises. That's pretty much a moot point after this year since QV is no longer doing Mediterranean fly-cruises in 2019. But it's still relevant for now. For those who can't access the page, here is the paragraph about "Informal/Smart Attire (Jacket Optional)".

 

"Informal/Smart Attire (Jacket Optional): The Informal (Jacket Optional) dress code amendment applies to Queen Victoria's summer fly Mediterranean season on embarkation days only, in Athens, Barcelona, Rome and Venice. Queen Mary 2 and Queen Elizabeth will continue to have the standard Formal and Informal (Jacket Required) dress codes.The ship's newspaper will confirm the dress code of the day. Guests who have Athens, Barcelona, Rome and Venice as a port during their voyage and are already settled in on board are encouraged to wear a jacket."

[Underwatr]

But I thought that "Jacket optional" was the operational rule on embarkation day in general, saving people from worrying about late luggage delivery. Not a written dress code, but more leniency in that regard.

[Windsurfboy]

Hi I'm bipolar about these changes , firstly I think smart attire (jacket required ) is a better description than informal, a jacket can never be informal, it is non formal. Gala night and formal are equivalent.

 

Now to my bipolar feelings, during the day I'm pleased to see a wear what your comfortable in attitude, only exception should be in formal waiter service dining rooms.

 

After 6pm the current dress code should apply strictly in as much of ship as possible

Edited April 1, 2018 by Windsurfboy
Glitch half wsy through

[Windsurfboy]

A glitch mid reply please continue reading from above

 

The only exception to wear what you are comfortable in in the day should be in the formal waiter service dining rooms. I don't see why in day i can't put a towel over my shoulders and wear swimming shorts as I walk to pool..

 

However come 6pm then the strict dress code should apply to much of the ship , dressing up for dinner makes a cruise special, otherwise we'd just go to 5 star beach resorts.

[PORT ROYAL]

Heads Up for a potential "Stealth"

 

Heard a rumour regarding the "enforcement" of the dress code, with regarding the Theatre. It would appear, Cunard's meet/greet people at the Theatre entrances, will unofficially turn a blind eye to those miscreants not following the dress code as they enter the Theatre.

 

 

Have asked Cunard to formally answer in writing if the dress code will fully enforced with regard to the Theatre, and all other code applicable areas. The answer requirement is for single word answer, being a yes or a no.

 

 

It has been four days, still no reply. Will post the Cunard confirmation.

 

 

Does any other CC Member have any information?

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

Hi I'm bipolar about these changes , firstly I think smart attire (jacket required ) is a better description than informal, a jacket can never be informal, it is non formal. Gala night and formal are equivalent.

 

Now to my bipolar feelings, during the day I'm pleased to see a wear what your comfortable in attitude, only exception should be in formal waiter service dining rooms.

 

After 6pm the current dress code should apply strictly in as much of ship as possible

 

Hi - the point you raised: "

After 6pm the current dress code should apply strictly in as much of ship as possible" is the principal point for my and others objections - Cunard is now allowing Casual Dress (jeans, and casual clothes in many, many more public areas of the ships (currently restricted to the buffet and the winter gardens (Carinthia on QM2). EVEN ON FORMAL/'GALA' nights. Knowing the layout of all three ships this will mean it is physically impossible for the caually dressed to be milling through those formally dressed areas. The temptation to try to get in to the other restricted bars will be impossible for some types of passengers. CURRENTLY THE THE CREW SEEM TO TACKL ANYONE NOT ADHERING TO THE DRESS CODE = IT CAN ONLY BE WORSE AFTER THE CHANGE. I blame Cunard not the crew.

[Host Hattie]

Just to clarify the current areas for casual wear already include G32 & the Yacht Clubs.

 

The additional areas will be the Casino and Golden Lion.

[PORT ROYAL]

Just to clarify the current areas for casual wear already include G32 & the Yacht Clubs.

 

The additional areas will be the Casino and Golden Lion.

 

Will all other areas, where dress code applies, be strictly enforced by Cunard?

[Host Hattie]

Will all other areas, where dress code applies, be strictly enforced by Cunard?

I have no idea.

It's disappointing that the staff need to do any enforcing, the dress codes are clearly printed in the Daily Programme and signs posted at the entrance to rooms but people still stroll in apparently completely oblivious to the fact that they are wearing a shirt when every other man in the room has a jacket on.

[Sibyl2]

Just looked on my VP and this was the advice:

he Voyage itinerary section includes guidance for evening dress attire. The below descriptions will give you an idea of what to pack for your voyage.

 

During the day, feel free to relax and dress as you please in all areas of the ship.

 

From 6pm on 'Informal' nights, we ask that you wear smart attire in most of our bars, restaurants and entertainment venues. On our much-anticipated Gala evenings, dress attire is Formal. We invite you to dress to impress and celebrate with us. There are two or three of these Gala evenings for every seven days of your voyage.

 

Informal/Smart Attire: Gentlemen, every night we request you wear smart trousers with a shirt and jacket; tie is optional. Ladies, blouses and skirts or stylish trousers and dresses are welcome.

 

Formal/Gala Evenings: It’s Showtime. Dinner jacket, tuxedo, or dark suit for the men with a regular tie or bow tie. Evening or cocktail dress, smart trouser suit, or formal separates for the ladies please.

 

Of course, if you prefer to spend your evenings in more relaxed attire, feel free to dress casually as you visit any of the following venues: Kings Court or Lido Buffet, Golden Lion, Casino, Carinthia Lounge, Winter Garden/Winter Lounge and G32 or Yacht Club. Non-ripped jeans are appropriate, but please refrain from wearing shorts, sports attire, swim wear or sleeveless t-shirts outside of the gym, spa and deck spaces.

 

Please ensure you pack appropriate clothing for your voyage. During the winter months in the Mediterranean and Atlantic Islands we suggest that you pack a waterproof jacket and clothing that can be layered, so you can be comfortable in all conditions from sunny afternoons to chilly nights.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[PORT ROYAL]

During the day, feel free to relax and dress as you please in all areas of the ship.

From 6pm on 'Informal' nights, we ask that you wear smart attire in most of our bars, restaurants and entertainment venues. On our much-anticipated Gala evenings, dress attire is Formal. We invite you to dress to impress and celebrate with us. There are two or three of these Gala evenings for every seven days of your voyage.

Note the wordings now used.

"Feel free to relax and dress as you please in all areas of the ship" -

In other words, wear whatever you want wherever you want, with Swimwear, shirtless etc. accepted everywhere

 

Informal: "We ask you" - Not you are required

 

Gala Evenings: "We invite you" - Not you are required

Cunard state there are only changes in wording, but words have meanings, and meanings imply a message is being issued.

Or is one incorrect?

How long before the words "ask" and "invite" are changed to "suggested" or "optional"?

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by PORT ROYAL
Predictive text

[DT_PB_all_at_sea]

Yes, that's on the current list.

 

Hi Hattie

The problem is as with many things Cunard are not consistent - we sail with them twice a year - I just had a look at the Daily Programmes from the last two years voyages =

- QV; V710 - "CASUAL, DINE IN THE BUFFET AND RELAX IN THE WINTER GARDEN BUT SHOULD NOT USE OTHER AREAS OF THE SHIP"

- QM2; M801 - "CASUAL, DINE IN THE KINGS COURT, RELAX IN THE CARINTHIA LOUNGE AND DANCE IN G32"

 

Totally inconsistent at the moment and likely to be even more confusing on board.

 

To be frank IMO increasingly few if any meet and greet crew members challenge passengers dressing off the code etc. Presumably their land based 'managers' (using the term loosely) simply do not issue the instruction to all Hotel Managers on board and no one can be bothered so long as they pull in a salary.

[orchestrapal]

I have no idea.

It's disappointing that the staff need to do any enforcing, the dress codes are clearly printed in the Daily Programme and signs posted at the entrance to rooms but people still stroll in apparently completely oblivious to the fact that they are wearing a shirt when every other man in the room has a jacket on.

 

I guess they feel if they are paying many thousands to be on a voyage that they NOT be treated like first graders. Turn off the “ dress code” police in the twenty first century.